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Athlon 64 vs Pentium 4



 
 
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  #31  
Old August 12th 04, 05:41 AM
JK
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Moderately Confused wrote:

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:14:23 -0400, "Moderately Confused"
wrote:


http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2065&p=1

Stop comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare a 64 bit processor

to a
32 bit processor. It's like comparing the gas mileage in an electric

hybrid
car and a regular combustion engine. When Intel comes out with their own

64
bit processor, than you can start with the whole benchmark thing.


Reread the linked article, 64 bit is irrelevant as it wasn't
doing anything 64 bit. It is true that eventually Intel will
also have higher performance CPUs, but then so will AMD... world
keeps spinning...


Still, the 64 bit processor will out perform the 32 bit one, although it
will be a minor performance increase. My problem isn't with AMD, it's the
"proof" of JK's claims. Sure, AMD 64 might be better in Business Winstone,
but it's only one piece of software.


Business Winstone is not one piece of software. It is composed of several
applications.

http://www.veritest.com/benchmarks/b...e/s1wsapps.asp

Whoop-de-doo, it out performs Intel in
Doom3, which I heard sucks anyway.


Many other games as well.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...px?i=2065&p=10

Take a look at this.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...px?i=2065&p=12

Keep in mind that these 32 bit applications will probably run faster
using a 64 bit OS, and that 64 bit versions of software will probably
run much faster than that.


All of his "arguments" are based on two
links.


The is also Advanced Virus Protection (AVP) when an Athlon 64 chip
is used With Windows XP with Service Pack 2(SP2) installed.

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/a...sp2/35675.html

Another review.
http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=65000304


More links.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...on64-3800.html



MC


  #32  
Old August 12th 04, 09:37 AM
Dave C.
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be compared that way? Of course 64 bit is going to be better than 32 bit.

For what? -Dave


  #33  
Old August 12th 04, 09:40 AM
Dave C.
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"~misfit~" wrote in message
...
JK wrote:
kony wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:18:12 -0400, JK
wrote:

Overclocking is not recommended if you want a stable system.

Nonsense
There are instable o'c systems but instable non-o'c systems too.

If someone is ignorant of how to o'c, then of course they
shouldn't... same goes for driving a car but it's not an argument
against someone else driving a car.


It is an argument for not driving a car above the speed limit.


Your analogy is flawed. OCing a CPU, if being compared to a car, isn't

like
breaking the speed limit, it's like hotting it up. You know, big bore
exhaust, high compression heads, Nox (NO2) kit, increase bore/stroke,
turbocharging, balance the crankshaft/pistons/con rods. That sort of

thing.

No. OCing a CPU is like taking a STOCK car and never running the engine
BELOW redline. You are doing something with the car that it was not
designed to do. And yes, it will be fast, until the engine and all other
mechanical components give out on you. THAT is what OCing a CPU is,
exactly. -Dave


  #34  
Old August 12th 04, 10:32 AM
kony
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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 04:40:11 -0400, "Dave C."
wrote:


Your analogy is flawed. OCing a CPU, if being compared to a car, isn't

like
breaking the speed limit, it's like hotting it up. You know, big bore
exhaust, high compression heads, Nox (NO2) kit, increase bore/stroke,
turbocharging, balance the crankshaft/pistons/con rods. That sort of

thing.

No. OCing a CPU is like taking a STOCK car and never running the engine
BELOW redline.



Who said anything about running it THAT far at the borderline?
Sure if you're a masochist you can destroy anything, but it would
have to either be a goal or be done quite recklessly, just like
anything else.

It is more similar to a german shipping over a Corvette for
driving on the autobahn, then finding there is a governor
restricting it to 80MPH, so they alter the artifical limiter to
reach it's full potential.

You are doing something with the car that it was not
designed to do.


And yes, it will be fast, until the engine and all other
mechanical components give out on you. THAT is what OCing a CPU is,
exactly. -Dave


Grand theory, but where are those stacks of dead CPUs?
There MUST be stacks and stacks of 'em, because quite a few
people o'c and have CPU that've ran that way for years. How many
years should we wait to see if the CPU died? In a previous post
I mentioned an example of Celeron 300 o'c to 450... those are
about 8 years old now, do we need to get 10-20 years out of a
Celeron 300? Possibly on a space station that would be
important, but back on the mother planet that Celeron 300 is not
going to die before the motherboard, power supply, video card,
etc, to the extent that odds are very high the rest of the system
will be dead before CPU died, so it was abandoned due to no
platform to run it. Running a celeron @ 450 can't be argued as a
significant cause of motherboard or power supply failure since it
wasn't as much of power or heat problem as it's predecessors
running at stock speed on same platform(s).
  #35  
Old August 12th 04, 11:02 AM
David Maynard
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kony wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 04:40:11 -0400, "Dave C."
wrote:



Your analogy is flawed. OCing a CPU, if being compared to a car, isn't


like

breaking the speed limit, it's like hotting it up. You know, big bore
exhaust, high compression heads, Nox (NO2) kit, increase bore/stroke,
turbocharging, balance the crankshaft/pistons/con rods. That sort of


thing.

No. OCing a CPU is like taking a STOCK car and never running the engine
BELOW redline.




Who said anything about running it THAT far at the borderline?
Sure if you're a masochist you can destroy anything, but it would
have to either be a goal or be done quite recklessly, just like
anything else.

It is more similar to a german shipping over a Corvette for
driving on the autobahn, then finding there is a governor
restricting it to 80MPH, so they alter the artifical limiter to
reach it's full potential.


You are doing something with the car that it was not
designed to do.



And yes, it will be fast, until the engine and all other
mechanical components give out on you. THAT is what OCing a CPU is,
exactly. -Dave



Grand theory, but where are those stacks of dead CPUs?
There MUST be stacks and stacks of 'em, because quite a few
people o'c and have CPU that've ran that way for years. How many
years should we wait to see if the CPU died? In a previous post
I mentioned an example of Celeron 300 o'c to 450... those are
about 8 years old now, do we need to get 10-20 years out of a
Celeron 300? Possibly on a space station that would be
important, but back on the mother planet that Celeron 300 is not
going to die before the motherboard, power supply, video card,
etc, to the extent that odds are very high the rest of the system
will be dead before CPU died, so it was abandoned due to no
platform to run it. Running a celeron @ 450 can't be argued as a
significant cause of motherboard or power supply failure since it
wasn't as much of power or heat problem as it's predecessors
running at stock speed on same platform(s).


Yes. My BP6, running dual 300As overclocked to 495, began life with NT4
server but is still going strong today as my 24/7 internet/LAN server
running Win2000.

  #36  
Old August 12th 04, 01:23 PM
Noozer
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That is not true. The Athlon 64 3200+ will beat the P4 3ghz Prescott
in most benchmarks.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2065&p=1


Stop comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare a 64 bit processor to

a
32 bit processor. It's like comparing the gas mileage in an electric

hybrid
car and a regular combustion engine. When Intel comes out with their own

64
bit processor, than you can start with the whole benchmark thing.


A processor is a processor... If a 64bit CPU can beat a 32bit CPU and cost
the same as the 32bit then it's obviously better and the one to choose (as
long as the rest of the platform doesn't drive up the price - final cost is
the main issue)

When comparing anything, it's price to performance that counts, regardless
of technology. (Performance here also includes durability/quality as well).
The biggest/fastest/etc isn't always the winner if a cheaper solution will
still get the job done.



  #37  
Old August 12th 04, 01:26 PM
Noozer
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Also, why can't you compare gas mileage in the Civic gas to the Civic
hybrid, or any other comparable car?


Ok, maybe that was a bad example, but why compare something that shouldn't
be compared that way? Of course 64 bit is going to be better than 32 bit.
Maybe it's like comparing a screwdriver to a cordless drill?


Because they both do the same job. If the 64bit works better and costs the
same, why would you get the 32bit?

....and have you ever had a cordless drill, dead battery and noplace to plug
in? That 49 cent screwdriver is sure worth a lot more at that point!


  #38  
Old August 12th 04, 01:26 PM
~misfit~
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Dave C. wrote:
"~misfit~" wrote in message
...
JK wrote:
kony wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:18:12 -0400, JK
wrote:

Overclocking is not recommended if you want a stable system.

Nonsense
There are instable o'c systems but instable non-o'c systems too.

If someone is ignorant of how to o'c, then of course they
shouldn't... same goes for driving a car but it's not an argument
against someone else driving a car.

It is an argument for not driving a car above the speed limit.


Your analogy is flawed. OCing a CPU, if being compared to a car,
isn't like breaking the speed limit, it's like hotting it up. You
know, big bore exhaust, high compression heads, Nox (NO2) kit,
increase bore/stroke, turbocharging, balance the
crankshaft/pistons/con rods. That sort of thing.


No. OCing a CPU is like taking a STOCK car and never running the
engine BELOW redline. You are doing something with the car that it
was not designed to do. And yes, it will be fast, until the engine
and all other mechanical components give out on you. THAT is what
OCing a CPU is, exactly. -Dave


Interesting theory. Let's follow it through:

If I did that with a car, set the idle speed to red-line and only went above
it, it would last, what, a half-day? At the most. (Don't try this at home
folks!) Let's say for argument's sake that the car was built for a 10 year
lifespan. It died in one 7,300th of that time. So you're saying that my
Celeron 600's that have been running at 900 for four years, if they died
tomorrow, would have lasted 29,200 years if I'd ran them at stock speed?

I bet they'd be really useful in 29,200 years huh? If they were only running
at 600 now I'd have binned them already as they wouldn't be fast enough for
the task they are doing. Same with my XP1800+ (1.53Ghz stock) that is
running at 2.1Ghz on a 200Mhz FSB. If it wasn't OC'ed I would have replaced
it. Therefore overclocked CPU's last longer.

:-)
--
~misfit~


  #39  
Old August 12th 04, 02:34 PM
CBFalconer
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"Dave C." wrote:

.... snip ...

No. OCing a CPU is like taking a STOCK car and never running the
engine BELOW redline. You are doing something with the car that
it was not designed to do. And yes, it will be fast, until the
engine and all other mechanical components give out on you. THAT
is what OCing a CPU is, exactly. -Dave


It depends on your objectives. Mine is reliability and data
integrity, with a loud and instantaneous complaint when any error
occurs. For people who don't care about that, and really just
want to play games, overclocking may be a fairly cheap way of
improving performance. Meanwhile I recommend none of it, ECC,
languages with strong typing and error detection, open-source
programs, etc.

--
Chuck F ) )
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
http://cbfalconer.home.att.net USE worldnet address!


  #40  
Old August 12th 04, 03:35 PM
Chris Stolworthy
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BIG SNIP
Lol dude I just bought a P4 2.8E. I could have forked out the extra cash
for the 3.2, the only difference? They are actually the same EXACT
processor die. The only difference is that when they are manufactured at
the factory, whatever part of the CPU that does the reporting to the board
is different so it reports it to set as a 3.2. So OC'ing a 2.8e to a 3.2 is
actually only setting the chip to what it was originally set to do in the
first place! I don't have to up my core voltage, just my FSB settings.
Funny how that works huh? Like my video card as well, an ATI X800 Pro ViVO
Sapphire. It is actually the same chip that is in the X800XT, they just
didn't connect the extra 4 pipelines. They are there, they just didn't
connect them in the manufacturering process. So I get the card, pop off the
Heatsink, using a conductive pen I connect the extra 4 pipelinesand
suddenly, BAM I have gone from a X800 Pro to an X800XT. 12 pipelines to 16.
Running at what the chip WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED TO DO! Most lower end
hardware these days is just higher end hardware that has not had the "extra"
stuff that makes it so, connected. So OC'ing my stuff actually on got it to
run at what it was originally designed for. Funny how that works isn't it?

-Chris


 




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