On 5 Jun, 09:10, "Trev" trevbowdenAT.dsl.pipex.COM wrote:
"News Reader" wrote in message

...





wrote in message
roups.com...
On 3 Jun, 23:58, Palindrome wrote:
News Reader wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...

I am trying to return a reconditined TV bought from the DABS website.
They are refusing to take it back on the grounds that it has been
"opened & used"
I am returning it because I am not happy with the picture quality and
the being "reconditioned" the box was opened and the TV used anyway.

They say

"Unfortunately, because the part has been opened and installed/used
we're unable to sell it again (without incurring losses). Selling on
used goods as 'new' does not comply with the Distance Selling
Regulation.

Therefore please be advised that we cannot accept the part back for a
full, or partial, refund or exchange."

What should I do?

Hi,

I thought the idea of DSR was essentially to provide (akin to Argos
money
back guarantee, etc.) physical examination and demonstration models as
found
in traditional retail shops. I.e. if buying from a normal shop you can
see
it on the shelf, etc., request one from the back to examine, and
request the
display unit be demonstrated?

Can anyone comment?

The shop will not generally open and demonstrate the unit that you are
considering purchasing. It may have a demo model that will be sold off
at a reduced "ex-demo" price, later.

Many people would not accept something from a shop where the box had
obviously been opened - they would insist on getting a "new" one..

--
Sue

An update from the OP....

1- After some email ping-pong, Dabs without any further explanation
have now agreed to take the unit back for a full refund, they
originally said they wouldn't consider even a partial refund. They are
due to collect tomorrow, I am holding my breath.

2- I find the argument about "used goods" difficult to uphold, in this
particular instance, the goods as received by me were already opened
and used and advertised as such by being descirbed as
"reconditioned" (the definition here was that it would come in a
"tatty" box and possibly from a repair centre)

3- I also thought as "News Reader" does. In the past I have had other
vendors interpret DSR to include plugging in and using the equipment.
I believe the bulk of "reconditioned" units end up in the distribution
chain in this way (having been rejected by a previous buyer). I have
often bought products this way and been happy with the results.

4- Nowhere in their return conditions do Dabs say anything about not
switching on the unit (they offer a 10 "change your mind" period)
see their returns policy he-
http://www.dabs.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=357

5- I don't think there is anything in DSR to say that you musn't
switch the product on. The condition is that you should return it in a
good state. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

6- For those who were discussing eBay etc. yes I would have put it on
eBay if Dabs hadn't taken it back. No it's not dishonest, it's just
subjective whether you like a particular display or not. For what it's
worth the other people who bought the same display raved about it. No
prizes for guessing which review is mine
http://www.dabs.com/ProductReviews.a...cklinx=4K11(Oh and this
weekend the same unit was sold on eBay for 40 quid more than I paid
Dabs! That's eBay for you)

Hi,

Pleased to hear things have gone well.

From the DTI website on the DSR:

"The right to cancel allows the consumer time to examine the goods or
services, as they would have when buying in a shop."

I also thought and my personal opinion was that a customer can generally
request:

- to see a unit demonstrated (either an existing demonstration unit or
one "opened" or otherwise found for this purpose)
- to require or request the right of inspection of a unit before
purchase. I.e. Having essentially agreed to purchase a unit, when they
bring it "out from the back" you can insist upon checking it (i.e. to make
sure all parts are present and correct as well as everything appearing
satisfactory - e.g. confirm that it is not an obviously damaged unit).
Neither of these scenarios are uncommon, for example a lead or manual
missing, or equally to find you have in the wonderful box an either
imperfect of damaged unit (e.g. poor plastic moulding, etc., etc.) or one
that is in fact not electrically or mechanically functional (I think on
this later point that might be asking a bit too much and you can evidently
return it if it fails in that regard as it can evidently fall for
rejection as faulty).

Hence, with the DSR meaning to replicate the same, as painful as it may
seem or be to online retailers et. al., and perhaps seem to consumers
overly generous to themselves, it would seem that within reason and due
care and attention by the customer, one can expect to be able to replicate
the above performance at home and then determine satisfaction, etc.

Clearly, if you use it in a "normal" way, i.e. install it, use it without
much care or consideration and use it whilst eating your take away, having
a party, etc., etc. then you have not honoured the spirit of the
legislation. Hence, I would only expect the above to mean whilst treating
the device with the care and attention a trained member of shop staff
would when opening and inspecting a (brand new sealed) unit.

In other words, if you can perform only an initial minimal necessary
whilst keeping the item in as received condition (perhaps a clean room
with white lint gloves might be going a bit further than necessary)
inspection, such that when you return it to its packaging it is, within
reason, as it came out, bar some minor rearrangement of the packaging,
then that would seem correct, right and fair enough. I think for example
with a DVD-RW where it may get scratched putting it into its mount, you
may start to cross the line come meet a grey area, which retailers need to
and should make clear (very easily found and clearly in large print
presented terms) their interpretation of this aspect of the regulations or
their chosen approach to it (and cut off point). It is just as easy to
test a drive for example without performing a full, final and permanent
installation mounting first.... Just a bit of a bummer if you assume,
believe, think, what have you that it looks great, etc., reports are good,
etc., that it can't possibly XYZ (be too loud, etc, etc.,) and keenly and
enthusiastically install whatever it may be (obviously still
conscientiously and carefully, etc. but still to leave some mark) only to
discover some, for oneself, significant shortcoming... lol.

Best wishes,

News Reader

We are into the days of sealed units in shrink wrap or even welded plastic
There is no way you can try an item without damaging the package. So it no
longer appears to be new and the retailer would have to reduce it to resell.
That reduction should come out of you pocket not theirs. Examine does not
meant try before you buy. Some dealers are very happy to take back the
goods you have tried and supply items better suited to your needs. But some
else has to get your goods.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A further update from the OP

Dabs had the unit collected yesterday.

As I had also raised the matter with Trading Standards. Today I was
contacted by a representative of "Consumers Direct" (set up by the OFT
to handle intial enquiries on behalf of Trading Standards). I was
informed that I was within my rights to demand return under DSR (even
though the packages were opened and would have been if I opened any
sealed packaging).

When I drew the representatives attention to the Dabs conditions of
Sale:
http://www.dabs.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=357
I was further informed tha Dabs conditions of sale are in
contravention of DSR and that they will be referring the matter to
Trading Standards with a view to a possible prosecution.

I found the following guide on the DSR very useful
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft698.pdf

I hold my breath for the refund

Payman