Unable to access Setup/BIOS
 

follow-up from previous answer (posted at 1644 CST 2Sep03)

SP2141 & SP2373 are the correct Setup and Diags for this model.

Create the floppies from the softpaq files (by executing SP2141.EXE and
executing SP2373.EXE), and with the new hard drive blank, boot the SP2141
floppy disk. This will put Setup on the hard drive. It should ask for the
Diags diskette. When it does, insert the disk that SP2373.EXE created.
When it finishes, the 'non-dos' partition will have been created on your new
hard drive. This is the partition that your computer boots to when the F10
key is pressed when the solid rectangular block is in the upper right hand
corner of the screen on boot up.

You can now load the operating system on the hard drive.

Mike in Houston

"chas samuels" wrote in message
...
Was given a Compaq 4784 machine without the harddrive and its cable.
Installed a spare harddrive which the machine recognized. I could
partition,
format and transfer system files to it OK. But, when I boot up the
machine,
I'm unable to access the CMOS Setup when the cursor blinks in the upper
right
hand corner of the screen.

I downloaded the appropriate (I think) softpaqs for the Setup but when I
try
to use it, I get a message indicating my machine is the wrong one.

Is there a work-around or cure for this problem?

Thanks in advance.

Setup and diags need to be installed on the hard drive prior to formatting
it for the operating system.

Actually, to install the Compaq Partition, they need to be installed on a blank
drive, before you partition, not after.

The correct diskette is bootable, and will create the Compaq Partition and its
Setup, which is the user interface to the onboard BIOS and CMOS settings. It
can also be ran from the bootable diskette anytime after the OS is installed.

Dale

Thank you for your responses, Mike. I had the SP2141 already and downloaded
the SP2373. Made diskettes for each. Tried three different harddrives: two
Western Digitals and a Maxtor. One had the OS on it, another just formatted
with system files and the third nothing on it. In all cases, the machine
recognized the harddrives and all were set up to be master/single.

In every case with the setup diskette (SP2141), the diskette would boot up and
eventually hit a point where it would produced a little window indicating it
was "retrieving data...please wait." In every case, the next thing I got was
another window containing "Setup not applicable for this type machine."

So, that is where I'm at now. Have any other ideas?

Charley

One had the OS on it, another just formatted
with system files and the third nothing on it.

Lets be clear--when you say "nothing on it", you mean a blank drive--no
partitions, which also means not formatted, of course.
Mike has posted confusing information--in his first post indicated you ran
these diskettes after partitioning but before formatting, and in a later one
that you were to run these on a blank HDD. It needs to have no partitions,
ususally one does this with FDISK....

Dale

The last time I saw this, the original system board had been replaced with a
non-Compaq board.

Mike
"chas samuels" wrote in message
...
Thank you for your responses, Mike. I had the SP2141 already and
downloaded
the SP2373. Made diskettes for each. Tried three different harddrives:
two
Western Digitals and a Maxtor. One had the OS on it, another just
formatted
with system files and the third nothing on it. In all cases, the machine
recognized the harddrives and all were set up to be master/single.

In every case with the setup diskette (SP2141), the diskette would boot up
and
eventually hit a point where it would produced a little window indicating
it
was "retrieving data...please wait." In every case, the next thing I got
was
another window containing "Setup not applicable for this type machine."

So, that is where I'm at now. Have any other ideas?

Charley

Dale,
Don't put words in my mouth. Show me in the first post where I used the
word partitioning?
Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

"DEJ57" wrote in message
...
One had the OS on it, another just formatted
with system files and the third nothing on it.

Lets be clear--when you say "nothing on it", you mean a blank drive--no
partitions, which also means not formatted, of course.
Mike has posted confusing information--in his first post indicated you ran
these diskettes after partitioning but before formatting, and in a later
one
that you were to run these on a blank HDD. It needs to have no
partitions,
ususally one does this with FDISK....

Dale

Did they happen to give you the Quick Restore CD? Running this would lay
down the diags partition and the OS that Compaq shipped it with. The OS
could be removed later, leaving the setup partition intact. If you do have
the QRCD, I'd try installing it.

What part of the world are you located?

Mike in Houston

"chas samuels" wrote in message
...
Thank you for your responses, Mike. I had the SP2141 already and
downloaded
the SP2373. Made diskettes for each. Tried three different harddrives:
two
Western Digitals and a Maxtor. One had the OS on it, another just
formatted
with system files and the third nothing on it. In all cases, the machine
recognized the harddrives and all were set up to be master/single.

In every case with the setup diskette (SP2141), the diskette would boot up
and
eventually hit a point where it would produced a little window indicating
it
was "retrieving data...please wait." In every case, the next thing I got
was
another window containing "Setup not applicable for this type machine."

So, that is where I'm at now. Have any other ideas?

Charley

Dale,
Don't put words in my mouth. Show me in the first post where I used the
word partitioning?
Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

That's exactly the point. You should have. The diskettes need to be run
before you partition, not before you format. What you posted was
incorrect--even you know it, as you in a later post indicate the diskettes
should be run on a blank HDD.....

Grrrrrrrr yourself.....

The last time I saw this, the original system board had been replaced with a
non-Compaq board.

Could be. Poster should check the board for Compaq identification.

My bet is he tried to run the programs with partitions on the HDD. I certainly
may be wrong, but that's my bet.

Dale

Since the second post was 12 minutes after the first, why bother with the
spanking? You were hours late in correcting my spelling. Show me in the
first post where I used the word partitioning?

"DEJ57" wrote in message
...
Dale,
Don't put words in my mouth. Show me in the first post where I used the
word partitioning?
Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

That's exactly the point. You should have. The diskettes need to be run
before you partition, not before you format. What you posted was
incorrect--even you know it, as you in a later post indicate the diskettes
should be run on a blank HDD.....

Grrrrrrrr yourself.....

Since the second post was 12 minutes after the first, why bother with the
spanking?

You responded authoritatively to someone asking for help, initially posting
something
wrong, then posted something contradictory without acknowledging the first
incorrect
assertion. I read the tread, the poster still seems confused, and thought you
still needed
the "spanking".
You were hours late in correcting my spelling. Show me in the
first post where I used the word partitioning?

This has nothing to do with "spelling". You should have posted that the
programs are run before you partition, on a blank HDD. You said that they are
run before you format. Dead wrong. I'm not critical of your spelling of
partition--I'm critical of the fact you failed to use that word instead of
format, so that your advice would have been correct.

Dale

Looks like my other post didn't make it. Chalk it up to "operator negative."

I hooked up a small (850MB) HD to the 4784 and jumpered it for Cable Selective
(CS). I got a Diags diskette to work (S(10245) but not the one that was
supposed to come with the machine (SP2373). SP2141 still not able to launch
Setup. Took the blank WD HD and partitioned if for the utilities. Diags went
on OK and so did the Setup but they wouldn't work. Diags (10245) would work
externally. So, it seems my main problem is the obtaining of a Setup Utility
that will do its job...not SP2141.

If memory serves me right, the Setup and/or Diags diskettes can be run
regardless of the condition of the HD...formatted or not, OS installed or not.
HD must be blank for non-DOS 4mb partition to be created, tho.

Don't think the mobo has been replaced. It appears to be OK. This business
with these utilities not doing right is not new for several Compaq machines.
have checked prior posts. It would seem there is some little something that
is required to get them to work. Wonder if there is a more "generic" Setup
utility for these Compaq machines????

And, that's where I am now.

Charley
************************************************** ***************

In article , "Mike Calkins"
wrote:
Since the second post was 12 minutes after the first, why bother with the
spanking? You were hours late in correcting my spelling. Show me in the
first post where I used the word partitioning?

"DEJ57" wrote in message
...
Dale,
Don't put words in my mouth. Show me in the first post where I used the
word partitioning?
Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

That's exactly the point. You should have. The diskettes need to be run
before you partition, not before you format. What you posted was
incorrect--even you know it, as you in a later post indicate the diskettes
should be run on a blank HDD.....

Grrrrrrrr yourself.....

Have you tried a CMOS reset--a tried and true fix for weirdness.....

The 4784 likely has an 8GB limit on the BIOS--are the other HDDs you've been
trying to use larger than that?

Unless you have some systemboard controller failure CS or master should make no
difference. And yes Setup should run from diskette no matter what the
condition of the HDD. That you can't run appropriate Setup programs hints that
a CMOS reset might help....

From older support files I see that:

(SP2141 ) Personal Computer Setup (Version 1.51C Rev. A)

(SP10245) Personal Computer Diagnostics

The first being what one would run from the FDD, and the second used for
installing the Compaq Diagnostic, I believe...

Dale

CS or master, CS is recommended, some HDs had a jumper for master or master
with slave present. It did matter.

I agree that CMOS reset may help, even that the CMOS battery 'may' need to
be replaced.

I have the QRCD for this model, which laid down the Windows '95 that came
with the PC. It was standard for this QRCD to put the setup partition on
the HD as well.

Going back a few years...... Remove all third party boards and additional
RAM, specifically, remove all non-Compaq RAM in this beast. You need to get
it as close to a factory configuration, and start from there....

Good luck,

Mike in Houston


"DEJ57" wrote in message
...
Have you tried a CMOS reset--a tried and true fix for weirdness.....

The 4784 likely has an 8GB limit on the BIOS--are the other HDDs you've
been
trying to use larger than that?

Unless you have some systemboard controller failure CS or master should
make no
difference. And yes Setup should run from diskette no matter what the
condition of the HDD. That you can't run appropriate Setup programs hints
that
a CMOS reset might help....

From older support files I see that:

(SP2141 ) Personal Computer Setup (Version 1.51C Rev. A)

(SP10245) Personal Computer Diagnostics

The first being what one would run from the FDD, and the second used for
installing the Compaq Diagnostic, I believe...

Dale

CS or master, CS is recommended, some HDs had a jumper for master or master
with slave present. It did matter.

Again, I don't understand your point. It makes no difference to the BIOS and
the CPU if the HDD is jumpered CS or Master/Single (It's likely this is only a
two connector data cable. If it were a three connector, and he was connecting
onto the slave position with a HDD jumpered as Master, I doubt it would be
recognized properly--he would know it and connect to the correct master postion
where being jumpered either CS or Master would work). It would make no
difference to attempting to load a program via the FDD. There is no
performance advantage I am aware of.

CS was only an advantage if you knew you had CS three connector cables, wanted
to install a slave HDD, and knew to jumper them both as CS.

So why would you say CS is recommended?

Dale

The default for this unit, was all drives jumpered as CS.


"DEJ57" wrote in message
...
CS or master, CS is recommended, some HDs had a jumper for master or
master
with slave present. It did matter.

Again, I don't understand your point. It makes no difference to the BIOS
and
the CPU if the HDD is jumpered CS or Master/Single (It's likely this is
only a
two connector data cable. If it were a three connector, and he was
connecting
onto the slave position with a HDD jumpered as Master, I doubt it would be
recognized properly--he would know it and connect to the correct master
postion
where being jumpered either CS or Master would work). It would make no
difference to attempting to load a program via the FDD. There is no
performance advantage I am aware of.

CS was only an advantage if you knew you had CS three connector cables,
wanted
to install a slave HDD, and knew to jumper them both as CS.

So why would you say CS is recommended?

Dale

chas has already stated that the HD cable and HD were missing.


"DEJ57" wrote in message
...
CS or master, CS is recommended, some HDs had a jumper for master or
master
with slave present. It did matter.

Again, I don't understand your point. It makes no difference to the BIOS
and
the CPU if the HDD is jumpered CS or Master/Single (It's likely this is
only a
two connector data cable. If it were a three connector, and he was
connecting
onto the slave position with a HDD jumpered as Master, I doubt it would be
recognized properly--he would know it and connect to the correct master
postion
where being jumpered either CS or Master would work). It would make no
difference to attempting to load a program via the FDD. There is no
performance advantage I am aware of.

CS was only an advantage if you knew you had CS three connector cables,
wanted
to install a slave HDD, and knew to jumper them both as CS.

So why would you say CS is recommended?

Dale

The default for this unit, was all drives jumpered as CS.

But not required or necessary. A single HDD installed jumpered either as
Master or CS would be recognized and performance would be the same. You don't
select "Master/Slave" or "Cable Select" in the BIOS--the type of recognition is
determined by the data ribbon used, and CS is only different if it has a third
connector for a second HDD. And a cut or missing 28 pin or wire, as I
understand it....

You can install two HDDs as Master and Slave in any Compaq, as long as you use
the correct data ribbion cable, and not a CS one. Compaqs were not by
"default" CS, or anything else--they were CS because Compaq installed CS data
ribbon cables and jumpered the HDDs CS.

That's how I've come to undersand it. Perhaps I'm wrong?

Dale

chas has already stated that the HD cable and HD were missing.

Which makes it even more likely the he installed a standard data ribbion cable,
not CS, as that what should have come with it.

SO?

You can install two HDDs as Master and Slave in any Compaq, as long as you
use
the correct data ribbion cable, and not a CS one.


I have a few Compaq laptops that I'd love to see you pull this trick on.
Even a few Presario desktops that only supported one HD as shipped from
Compaq.



That's how I've come to undersand it. Perhaps I'm wrong?


Perhaps.....

Dale

I have a few Compaq laptops that I'd love to see you pull this trick on.
Even a few Presario desktops that only supported one HD as shipped from
Compaq.

We weren't talking about laptops. Different animal, for the most part.

Both my 4112 and 7240 shipped with only a two connector data on the first
channal and the second channal. To add additional HDDs, I HAD TO USE STANDARD
DATA CABLES--no SCSI data cables were easily available retail in my area.
Could have special ordered them or had them made, I suppose, but for what
reason?

I would argue against describing these Presarios as only supporting one HDD as
shipped from Compaq (I have had a 386 and several 486 Compaq laptops that
support four IDE with a little bit of effort, and that Compaq will tell you
can't be done--"its not supported") Compaq was simply too cheap to supply
three connector data cables on both the channels, nor did they want the excess
cable stuffed into the boxes, I'd bet. On the systemboard of the 4112 they
were too cheap to include the sockets for additional RAM chips as well as the
socket for upgrade video memory. But the solder points and board space for
those sockets were there. But back to the HDDs--if you happened to have CS
three connector data cables, these Presarios would support four CS jumpered IDE
devices fine--and they would also support four IDE devices using standard three
connector data cables just as well, jumpered as Master and Slave,
appropriately. The systemboard didn't care.
The "support" was there, just not the necessary number of connectors on the
data cables. One just used the new three position data cable that comes with
most new HDDs. But the included cables have never been CS, in my experience.
Compaq 's going against the grain in using CS sure has been the source of much
confusion and many questions in support forums for Compaq.

Dale

Dale, there were a few Presarios that supported very few IDE devices.

The Presario 425 / 433 and 460 supported only one IDE HDD and no IDE CD-ROM.
The Presario 520, 524, 526, 5526 and 5528 supported one IDE HDD and one IDE
CD-ROM. (and had no space or power connectors for additional drives).


"DEJ57" wrote in message
...
I have a few Compaq laptops that I'd love to see you pull this trick on.
Even a few Presario desktops that only supported one HD as shipped from
Compaq.

We weren't talking about laptops. Different animal, for the most part.

Both my 4112 and 7240 shipped with only a two connector data on the first
channal and the second channal. To add additional HDDs, I HAD TO USE
STANDARD
DATA CABLES--no SCSI data cables were easily available retail in my area.
Could have special ordered them or had them made, I suppose, but for what
reason?

I would argue against describing these Presarios as only supporting one
HDD as
shipped from Compaq (I have had a 386 and several 486 Compaq laptops that
support four IDE with a little bit of effort, and that Compaq will tell
you
can't be done--"its not supported") Compaq was simply too cheap to supply
three connector data cables on both the channels, nor did they want the
excess
cable stuffed into the boxes, I'd bet. On the systemboard of the 4112
they
were too cheap to include the sockets for additional RAM chips as well as
the
socket for upgrade video memory. But the solder points and board space
for
those sockets were there. But back to the HDDs--if you happened to have
CS
three connector data cables, these Presarios would support four CS
jumpered IDE
devices fine--and they would also support four IDE devices using standard
three
connector data cables just as well, jumpered as Master and Slave,
appropriately. The systemboard didn't care.
The "support" was there, just not the necessary number of connectors on
the
data cables. One just used the new three position data cable that comes
with
most new HDDs. But the included cables have never been CS, in my
experience.
Compaq 's going against the grain in using CS sure has been the source of
much
confusion and many questions in support forums for Compaq.

Dale

Same for 3550 and 3555, 3020 and 3060. And 4090US. One HD and one CD-ROM
only. No space or connectors for more
HH

"Mike Calkins" wrote in message
...
Dale, there were a few Presarios that supported very few IDE devices.

The Presario 425 / 433 and 460 supported only one IDE HDD and no IDE
CD-ROM.
The Presario 520, 524, 526, 5526 and 5528 supported one IDE HDD and one
IDE
CD-ROM. (and had no space or power connectors for additional drives).


"DEJ57" wrote in message
...
I have a few Compaq laptops that I'd love to see you pull this trick
on.
Even a few Presario desktops that only supported one HD as shipped from
Compaq.

We weren't talking about laptops. Different animal, for the most part.

Both my 4112 and 7240 shipped with only a two connector data on the
first
channal and the second channal. To add additional HDDs, I HAD TO USE
STANDARD
DATA CABLES--no SCSI data cables were easily available retail in my
area.
Could have special ordered them or had them made, I suppose, but for
what
reason?

I would argue against describing these Presarios as only supporting one
HDD as
shipped from Compaq (I have had a 386 and several 486 Compaq laptops
that
support four IDE with a little bit of effort, and that Compaq will tell
you
can't be done--"its not supported") Compaq was simply too cheap to
supply
three connector data cables on both the channels, nor did they want the
excess
cable stuffed into the boxes, I'd bet. On the systemboard of the 4112
they
were too cheap to include the sockets for additional RAM chips as well
as
the
socket for upgrade video memory. But the solder points and board space
for
those sockets were there. But back to the HDDs--if you happened to have
CS
three connector data cables, these Presarios would support four CS
jumpered IDE
devices fine--and they would also support four IDE devices using
standard
three
connector data cables just as well, jumpered as Master and Slave,
appropriately. The systemboard didn't care.
The "support" was there, just not the necessary number of connectors on
the
data cables. One just used the new three position data cable that comes
with
most new HDDs. But the included cables have never been CS, in my
experience.
Compaq 's going against the grain in using CS sure has been the source
of
much
confusion and many questions in support forums for Compaq.

Dale