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-   -   2T SSD SATA - $250 (http://www.hardwarebanter.com/showthread.php?t=199020)

Flasherly[_2_] June 12th 18 06:23 PM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
Direct Chinese marketing - no warranty, no nothing.

Except, it is MICRON branded.

My Micron, I bought, a USA-distribution of their 256G SSD,
cost me four-times, per GByte, more.

IOW if that same drive, cost adjusted for this one, it would have cost
me $30 instead of $120 I paid:

https://slickdeals.net/f/11690051-2t...-free-shipping

Half off the usual market value, still, does tend to bear a little
weight on plattered drives.

Paul[_28_] June 12th 18 07:12 PM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
Flasherly wrote:
Direct Chinese marketing - no warranty, no nothing.

Except, it is MICRON branded.

My Micron, I bought, a USA-distribution of their 256G SSD,
cost me four-times, per GByte, more.

IOW if that same drive, cost adjusted for this one, it would have cost
me $30 instead of $120 I paid:

https://slickdeals.net/f/11690051-2t...-free-shipping

Half off the usual market value, still, does tend to bear a little
weight on plattered drives.


It uses 3D TLC and is rated at 400TBW. That means,
as a 2TB drive, you can write it end to end 200 times.
Suitable for backups, subject to that limit.

https://www.micron.com/~/media/docum...duct_brief.pdf

And there should be QLC based drives soon, so the price
might come down a tiny bit more. The TBW could be worse
on the QLC based drive (four bits stored per Flash cell,
Flash cells chained in cylindrical columns in the chip).

Paul

Lynn McGuire[_3_] June 12th 18 07:48 PM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
On 6/12/2018 1:12 PM, Paul wrote:
Flasherly wrote:
Direct Chinese marketing - no warranty, no nothing.
Except, it is MICRON branded.
My Micron, I bought, a USA-distribution of their 256G SSD,
cost me four-times, per GByte, more.

IOW if that same drive, cost adjusted for this one, it would have cost
me $30 instead of $120 I paid:

https://slickdeals.net/f/11690051-2t...-free-shipping


Half off the usual market value, still, does tend to bear a little
weight on plattered drives.


It uses 3D TLC and is rated at 400TBW. That means,
as a 2TB drive, you can write it end to end 200 times.
Suitable for backups, subject to that limit.

https://www.micron.com/~/media/docum...duct_brief.pdf


And there should be QLC based drives soon, so the price
might come down a tiny bit more. The TBW could be worse
on the QLC based drive (four bits stored per Flash cell,
Flash cells chained in cylindrical columns in the chip).

Â*Â* Paul


Only 200 writes per sector ?

Lynn

Paul[_28_] June 12th 18 08:02 PM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/12/2018 1:12 PM, Paul wrote:
Flasherly wrote:
Direct Chinese marketing - no warranty, no nothing.
Except, it is MICRON branded.
My Micron, I bought, a USA-distribution of their 256G SSD,
cost me four-times, per GByte, more.

IOW if that same drive, cost adjusted for this one, it would have cost
me $30 instead of $120 I paid:

https://slickdeals.net/f/11690051-2t...-free-shipping


Half off the usual market value, still, does tend to bear a little
weight on plattered drives.


It uses 3D TLC and is rated at 400TBW. That means,
as a 2TB drive, you can write it end to end 200 times.
Suitable for backups, subject to that limit.

https://www.micron.com/~/media/docum...duct_brief.pdf


And there should be QLC based drives soon, so the price
might come down a tiny bit more. The TBW could be worse
on the QLC based drive (four bits stored per Flash cell,
Flash cells chained in cylindrical columns in the chip).

Paul


Only 200 writes per sector ?

Lynn


It's a TBW rating, and I presume takes write amplification
into account.

I don't think I have the skill set to map the flash chip
endurance rating, to TBW. Half the time, we can't get an
honest endurance number for the flash anyway.

You know, even hard drives have TBW ratings now. Something
about the expected amount of usage so that a unit will
pass the warranty period in one piece. Maybe an enterprise
class hard drive might have a 550TBW rating. Which you might
easily exceed without too much effort in the run of a year.
And the different price ranges of drives, have a rough
relationship to the TBW value. The entry level drives have
lower values than that.

You can also get into the old "IBM problem", where IBM started
putting information in datasheets, indicating the DeathStar
couldn't be operated 24 hours a day forever. And that notion
is leaking back into datasheets now too. It's all a bit
discouraging. There hasn't been a stink about it, like when
IBM pulled that the first time. The other companies
are not getting called on it.

There is some move to make platters thinner (so they
can stuff more of them into high capacity drives).

There was yet another mention of glass platters
coming back.

The only thing I haven't seen recently, is any
more experimental results on "zero flying height"
drives. HGST managed to grind the heads off
the arm in about 30 days, while flying at zero
nanometers, in a lab experiment.

At least there's no sign an SSD can't have the power
left on all the time :-) Even if the write life
leaves something to be desired (imagine if QLC
needs "refresh writes" to improve the error rate
over time...). All the tech seems to be headed
into the dumper.

Paul

Lynn McGuire[_3_] June 12th 18 09:03 PM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
On 6/12/2018 2:02 PM, Paul wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/12/2018 1:12 PM, Paul wrote:
Flasherly wrote:
Direct Chinese marketing - no warranty, no nothing.
Except, it is MICRON branded.
My Micron, I bought, a USA-distribution of their 256G SSD,
cost me four-times, per GByte, more.

IOW if that same drive, cost adjusted for this one, it would have cost
me $30 instead of $120 I paid:

https://slickdeals.net/f/11690051-2t...-free-shipping


Half off the usual market value, still, does tend to bear a little
weight on plattered drives.

It uses 3D TLC and is rated at 400TBW. That means,
as a 2TB drive, you can write it end to end 200 times.
Suitable for backups, subject to that limit.

https://www.micron.com/~/media/docum...duct_brief.pdf


And there should be QLC based drives soon, so the price
might come down a tiny bit more. The TBW could be worse
on the QLC based drive (four bits stored per Flash cell,
Flash cells chained in cylindrical columns in the chip).

Â*Â*Â* Paul


Only 200 writes per sector ?

Lynn


It's a TBW rating, and I presume takes write amplification
into account.

I don't think I have the skill set to map the flash chip
endurance rating, to TBW. Half the time, we can't get an
honest endurance number for the flash anyway.

You know, even hard drives have TBW ratings now. Something
about the expected amount of usage so that a unit will
pass the warranty period in one piece. Maybe an enterprise
class hard drive might have a 550TBW rating. Which you might
easily exceed without too much effort in the run of a year.
And the different price ranges of drives, have a rough
relationship to the TBW value. The entry level drives have
lower values than that.

You can also get into the old "IBM problem", where IBM started
putting information in datasheets, indicating the DeathStar
couldn't be operated 24 hours a day forever. And that notion
is leaking back into datasheets now too. It's all a bit
discouraging. There hasn't been a stink about it, like when
IBM pulled that the first time. The other companies
are not getting called on it.

There is some move to make platters thinner (so they
can stuff more of them into high capacity drives).

There was yet another mention of glass platters
coming back.

The only thing I haven't seen recently, is any
more experimental results on "zero flying height"
drives. HGST managed to grind the heads off
the arm in about 30 days, while flying at zero
nanometers, in a lab experiment.

At least there's no sign an SSD can't have the power
left on all the time :-) Even if the write life
leaves something to be desired (imagine if QLC
needs "refresh writes" to improve the error rate
over time...). All the tech seems to be headed
into the dumper.

Â*Â* Paul


I was really hoping that we were heading to 100 year capable devices.

Lynn


Flasherly[_2_] June 13th 18 12:41 AM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:12:05 -0400, Paul
wrote:

It uses 3D TLC and is rated at 400TBW. That means,
as a 2TB drive, you can write it end to end 200 times.
Suitable for backups, subject to that limit.


Much generally stated for higher endurance here. How Micron managed
to get down to 200, presumably from the linked tech sheet, is really
quite amazing. Well, up to something short of a point of leaping tall
buildings in a single bound.

No, wait, ... it's government inspired technological RAM.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12920...hinese-3d-nand

.. . .

TLC flash has lower write endurance than both SLC and MLC flash. In
general, the more bits of data and levels of charge that a planar NAND
flash cell has, the fewer P/E cycles, or write cycles, it supports.
SLC flash memory cells can withstand 50,000 to 100,000 P/E cycles
before wearing out. A 2-bit planar MLC memory cell typically tolerates
no more than 3,000 P/E cycles, and enterprise-grade MLC (eMLC) planar
NAND has a limit of 10,000 P/E cycles. A planar TLC memory cell
generally can sustain no more than 500 or 1,000 write cycles. However,
with 3D NAND technology, the TLC size is larger, and it can approach
the endurance level of planar floating-gate-based MLC flash.
https://searchstorage.techtarget.com...vel-cell-flash


I'd personally question if I'd even want to classify the stuff in a
storage capacity.

Flasherly[_2_] June 13th 18 12:49 AM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 13:23:43 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

- My Micron


-
Mis-statement: No coffee, no putt-putt

I own a Crucial 256G SSD drive.

Paul[_28_] June 13th 18 02:21 AM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
Flasherly wrote:

I'd personally question if I'd even want to classify the stuff in a
storage capacity.


It's because of "wear leveling", that the number of write
cycles on each cell is approximately the same at end of life.

The drive keeps track of how many writes have happened, in
order to spread out the wear.

The method used on USB flash sticks, is obviously inferior
to the method used on SSD drives. (I had two USB TLC sticks
die after only one year of very light usage.)

I think the methods might have names such as "static wear leveling"
and "dynamic wear leveling".

Paul

Flasherly[_2_] June 13th 18 06:01 AM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:21:39 -0400, Paul
wrote:

The method used on USB flash sticks, is obviously inferior
to the method used on SSD drives. (I had two USB TLC sticks
die after only one year of very light usage.)


I could use TLC in an archival capacity. And I'm sure someone would
like me to, by selling their product.

Earlier mentioned from the prior paper detailing planar charge states,
TLC being the more complex, has upwards to approaching ten voltage
levels committed at a foundation change state, let alone write
capacity. Hence to the later speed factoring for lower performance.

At that complexity, no less, when further lowered for congenital
degeneration at service life of 200 cycles, I'd wonder, how far is
such an extremity from purported more positive aspects of TLC as well
mentioned, and if that distance of impositions and limitations are,
altogether, to be disposed at an earlier stage of technological
interpretation increasingly lacking appreciable relevance.

Incredulous as it may seem to read of a SSD failure, and as certain as
it is easier to afford to say to stick to a likes leading the
forefront of SSD quality, Samsung or Intel, although that can only
then underline a greater significance for value given plattered drives
that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Larc[_3_] June 13th 18 04:15 PM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 01:01:58 -0400, Flasherly wrote:

| Incredulous as it may seem to read of a SSD failure, and as certain as
| it is easier to afford to say to stick to a likes leading the
| forefront of SSD quality, Samsung or Intel, although that can only
| then underline a greater significance for value given plattered drives
| that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

SSDs serve as system drives in my 4 PCs, but I use HDDs for storage (and regular
backups of the SSDs) and have no plans to change that setup. I know lots of others
use the same arrangement, so guess many HDDs are still being sold.

Larc

Flasherly[_2_] June 13th 18 07:58 PM

2T SSD SATA - $250 (Micro form case)
 
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 11:15:05 -0400, Larc
wrote:


SSDs serve as system drives in my 4 PCs, but I use HDDs for storage (and regular
backups of the SSDs) and have no plans to change that setup. I know lots of others
use the same arrangement, so guess many HDDs are still being sold.


Saw another SSD, like the other (MICRON), this morning. 520G for $80
or a third of a 200-write/cycle expectancy of the Micron 2T SDD at
$225. Team something-or-other brand I've seen before but hasn't
especially a review base: Nobody apparently cares to know what it is.
Publicity is there, however, actively promoted for reliable memory. I
even tried to find out if the memory is TLC (or an variant
improvement), but specs appear no less as prolific as reviews.

SSDs are fine, for a premium, if a little worn for the appeal they had
when I bought my first, both 64G and later 128G Samsungs, before the
last Crucial. The Crucial turned a little tricky about a legacy
setup, enabling active partitions from a software boot arbitrator, to
eventually force the issue, (selecting active status and then loading
from multiple partitions not limited to any single drive), which I'd
not run into with plattered drives prior.

I've three PC cases available for four motherboards, only don't like
the point of the third, an extra from sizing standpoint. I'm getting
a promotion sale (no tax/shipping) directly from Rosewill. . .

ROSEWILL Micro ATX Mini Tower Computer Case, Steel and plastic
computer case with 1x 80mm rear fan, Top I/O ports: 1x USB3.0, 2x USB
2.0 and Audio In/Out ports (SRM-01).

Drives no problemo - it takes 'em all.

One really dinky case -- think a box of cereal: 12x12x6 (LHW). All
main factor MicroAtx MBs, though. Something different, perhaps suited
in mind for a convenience to get around between other computers -- a
temporary proximity maintenance or machine adjustment platform.

It's $25 for a few more days, a case for anyone interested in
shoeboxes.

Flasherly[_2_] June 14th 18 10:04 PM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 13:23:43 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

Crucial 256G I paid: $120

HWino-
Crucial_CT256MX100SSD1 [14290CA47846]
http://www.legitreviews.com/crucial-...-review_143984

Twice the memory now, price adjusting for what I paid, for Crucial MX
implementations using 3D NAND presumably and at some added performance
premium. Samsung pro-series use V-NAND, I might say 3D NAND below
(unless incorrect).

Interesting is apparently SLC technology got a hole shot of its bottom
due to marketing factors. People, on a universal whole, just couldn't
get enough of wallowing in the cheapest TLC denominator possible. The
result is pressure, rather a wholesale movement on part of the SSD
industry to produce, cater to a more viable cost-effective marketing
force.

Not trickle down but one hand washes the other laissez-faire.

My MLC technology is apt as well to affected, somewhere and to what
extent of marketing balances, comparative to 3D- and V-NAND, I'm not
sure.

Last and not least to mention Western Digital, whose SSD tactics --
since acquisition of SanDisk, a WD subsidiary and their SSD division--
is to hide and impede identification of NAND technology from model
nomenclatures. Indeed a same model WD SSD may vary between processes
and materials used from one to the next unit.

Are we caring?

Possibly not Money talks, and, well, you're probably ready for stroll
at this point by now.

Down doggie. [Nice mutt.]

Paul[_28_] June 14th 18 11:42 PM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
Flasherly wrote:


Interesting is apparently SLC technology got a hole shot of its bottom
due to marketing factors.


SLC flash chips are still being made.
256Gbit = 32GB per chip

http://www.spectek.com/menus/flash_d...Type=SLC+256Gb

That means someone still uses them.

Paul


Flasherly[_2_] June 15th 18 06:46 AM

2T SSD SATA - $250
 
On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 18:42:42 -0400, Paul
wrote:

SLC flash chips are still being made.
256Gbit = 32GB per chip

http://www.spectek.com/menus/flash_d...Type=SLC+256Gb

That means someone still uses them.

Paul


Of course - Foremost enterprise and military.

Engineering is to succumb to the Iron Fist of Moore's Law, that
dictates 30% cost reduction over an umbrella effect, whereby, next
year, planar and 3D NAND will indifferently achieve efficiency.

According to Mr. Guru of Objective Analysis ... yep, an investment
firm.

https://www.chipestimate.com/Memory-...ash/blogs/2899


Meanwhile ... back on terra firma with my EZRZ series, ran the new 2T
plattered drive's ser# by WD for validity, and I'm good for the 2020
warranty. 30-day no charge return shipping on mistakes and hardware
faults at a low-balled $60 price placement on the EZRZ. All that's
left is to reach over to the docking station, power it up for the
first and run a 3rd party format all the way across at FAT32. ;)

Flasherly[_2_] June 18th 18 05:55 AM

Rosewill $25 Micro form case
 
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 14:58:29 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

Nahhh... Not a box of cereal, but more like regular ATX/mini-type
towers. Hardly smaller. Regular rolled steel case except for a
couple differences. The front plastic is totally detachable, made so,
with four insert clasps that easily enough pop out, and all control
wiring follows in like manner;- Wiring control terminal functions are
not on the front, though, but the on the side lips of the front panel.
Other weirdity are smaller internal drive mounting, (top 5.25 slots
are fine), being a single-screw secured swivel plate where smaller HDD
drives are side-secured or mounted parallel and onto that plate;-
normal cases are perpendicular, usually to a drive cage in contact to
the four thin side-strips of a drive, not the drive's two flat surface
areas, one being flat metal and the other the control circuitry and
platter mold. But drives do, always have had that contingency with
screw sets for such mounting. Only it's my first time up with one.
Not exactly efficient but then heavy storage is not primary
consideration for this particular setup.

Still, for not one dime more than $25 . . .

ROSEWILL Micro ATX Mini Tower Computer Case, Steel and plastic
computer case with 1x 80mm rear fan, Top I/O ports: 1x USB3.0, 2x USB
2.0 and Audio In/Out ports (SRM-01).


There's not much else. Or a whole lot more serious choices until
possibly starting upwards of $35.

One of four, all $25, being one only other model that caught my eye,
first off with handles, besides kind of cute in being a white-painted
case. What killed it, though, was no provision for a 5.25 DVD. Hard
to build up an OS or do software maintenance without optical media.
Flashdrives, right. ...Sometimes a lot more of a PITA to build on one
first, invariably from other DVDs, ISO images, transitional stages and
such, than just easier to come out of a regular DVD library, which I
prefer. Where I prefer is the OS installs on a flashdrive, DVD speeds
for a larger install being closer to painfully slow.

Paul[_28_] June 18th 18 06:35 AM

Rosewill $25 Micro form case
 
Flasherly wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 14:58:29 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

Nahhh... Not a box of cereal, but more like regular ATX/mini-type
towers. Hardly smaller. Regular rolled steel case except for a
couple differences. The front plastic is totally detachable, made so,
with four insert clasps that easily enough pop out, and all control
wiring follows in like manner;- Wiring control terminal functions are
not on the front, though, but the on the side lips of the front panel.
Other weirdity are smaller internal drive mounting, (top 5.25 slots
are fine), being a single-screw secured swivel plate where smaller HDD
drives are side-secured or mounted parallel and onto that plate;-
normal cases are perpendicular, usually to a drive cage in contact to
the four thin side-strips of a drive, not the drive's two flat surface
areas, one being flat metal and the other the control circuitry and
platter mold. But drives do, always have had that contingency with
screw sets for such mounting. Only it's my first time up with one.
Not exactly efficient but then heavy storage is not primary
consideration for this particular setup.

Still, for not one dime more than $25 . . .

ROSEWILL Micro ATX Mini Tower Computer Case, Steel and plastic
computer case with 1x 80mm rear fan, Top I/O ports: 1x USB3.0, 2x USB
2.0 and Audio In/Out ports (SRM-01).


There's not much else. Or a whole lot more serious choices until
possibly starting upwards of $35.

One of four, all $25, being one only other model that caught my eye,
first off with handles, besides kind of cute in being a white-painted
case. What killed it, though, was no provision for a 5.25 DVD. Hard
to build up an OS or do software maintenance without optical media.
Flashdrives, right. ...Sometimes a lot more of a PITA to build on one
first, invariably from other DVDs, ISO images, transitional stages and
such, than just easier to come out of a regular DVD library, which I
prefer. Where I prefer is the OS installs on a flashdrive, DVD speeds
for a larger install being closer to painfully slow.


I keep a DVD burner in a USB enclosure. The enclosure
has a separate power supply. I can both burn stuff
onto blanks, or boot installer DVDs. This allows
working on computers without an optical drive.

As for the Rosewill computer case, I like the metal on
the case to be robust. Some modern computer cases
are made of "tomato soup tin" metal, and just the
shipment by the UPS courier results in the case arriving
damaged. I try to get the SECC metal thickness before
I buy.

Paul

Flasherly[_2_] June 18th 18 09:20 AM

Rosewill $25 Micro form case
 
On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 01:35:34 -0400, Paul
wrote:


I keep a DVD burner in a USB enclosure. The enclosure
has a separate power supply. I can both burn stuff
onto blanks, or boot installer DVDs. This allows
working on computers without an optical drive.

As for the Rosewill computer case, I like the metal on
the case to be robust. Some modern computer cases
are made of "tomato soup tin" metal, and just the
shipment by the UPS courier results in the case arriving
damaged. I try to get the SECC metal thickness before
I buy.

Paul


I'd forgotten that. Been watching for an external DVD, seen a couple
sales, but somehow missed them. Either or, but a decent $20 External
thin laptop-style DVD sale and a USB enclosure/PS would be close if
not less. Wouldn't half mind trying out a BRay burner, only an
atrocious amount of rewriteable DVD discs I've amassed keeps that
notion in check. I'd looked up SECC at the time, seeing noted
somewhere the Rosewill complied with it. Same price, fulfilled or
shipped from Rosewill, and one dollar more on Amazon, than NewEgg
working presumably with stock on hand. Amazon's shipping is also a
little different. I suspect they've a distribution center nearby for
being in high-population area. Orders seem quicker and handling is
given a little more care. And they've their own form of delivery
fleet. Types of vehicles that show up can vary widely. I've a 4'x4'
card table for easy temporary setups. An internal DVD helps after
monitor, computer, keyboard and mouse just about cover it up.


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