Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

I have an Antec 300 Illusion case. There are two USB 2.0 connector
ports on the front. I'm thinking that I may want to upgrade them to
USB 3.0.

Has anyone upgraded USB 2 ports on a chassis to USB 3? I'd like to get
some idea of what would need to be done. I could, of course, add a USB
3.0 hub instead, but it'd be nice to keep down the amount of clutter on
my desk.

Thanks,

John

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 17:57:32 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

I have an Antec 300 Illusion case. There are two USB 2.0 connector
ports on the front. I'm thinking that I may want to upgrade them to
USB 3.0.

Has anyone upgraded USB 2 ports on a chassis to USB 3? I'd like to get
some idea of what would need to be done. I could, of course, add a USB
3.0 hub instead, but it'd be nice to keep down the amount of clutter on
my desk.

Thanks,

John

An extension cable for the 4 more signal pins than USB2. Presuming
the KISS principle and a couple backplane ports.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-.../dp/B00NH12O5I

You'll need a MB equipped with USB3 headers to cable a similar setup,
similarly dangling out of where your case USB2 headers, if not a
replacement then presently used on front USB3 paneled cases.

I'd figured for the first but hadn't looked it up. For my purposes 3M
is far too long, suspecting Ebay may have something in my range for a
tenth the price.

Clutter as horror is subject to relevancy given peculiar viewpoint. I
personally like consoles, for instance, with a long gangway and a
chair to roll around Command Central. Nothing being no more secured
or tightened down than it really need be, most of all then for easy
accessibility plucking, of course, where one other than Maintenance
actually matters.

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Yes wrote:

I have an Antec 300 Illusion case. There are two USB 2.0 connector
ports on the front. I'm thinking that I may want to upgrade them to
USB 3.0.

Has anyone upgraded USB 2 ports on a chassis to USB 3? I'd like to get
some idea of what would need to be done. I could, of course, add a USB
3.0 hub instead, but it'd be nice to keep down the amount of clutter on
my desk.

The problem is getting the case mounting ports that fit that case. The
USB port may not have its own bracket with tangs to snap into a hole in
the case. Rather it will be soldered onto a PCB that is positioned
behind the case.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2ik886t.jpg
My guess (since I couldn't find an inside view of that spot inside the
case) is there is one PCB that has the USB ports, audio jacks, and LED
soldered onto it and the wires run from the PCB.

Do you have any spare drive bays? If so, you can get a drive bay hub
that has one, or more, USB3 ports, like:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820223120
That adds 2 USB3 ports, 4 USB2 ports, an eSATA connection, and a card
reader. This one only had an average rating so you might want to hunt
around for other choices. If you have no spare SATA ports on the mobo
then the eSATA connector in this drive hub would be dead. Same if you
don't have any spare USB2 headers on the mobo.

Sometimes there are USB2 headers on the mobo that are unused. You could
connect those to this drive bay hub along with the USB3 header on the
mobo. If your mobo only has USB2 headers then the mobo has no USB3
support which means you'll have to add a USB3 daughtercard. Some USB3
cards have an internal USB3 connector you could use to go to the USB
drive hub; however, often the internal USB connector is shared with one
of the external USB ports on that card.

You mention the case but not the motherboard, so no idea what you'll
have to do to add USB3 support. No mention of what USB headers are
already used on the mobo. If the mobo has it, run an unused USB3 header
on the mobo to the USB drive hub. If not, you'll have to add a USB3
daughtercard which will already give you USB3 external ports on the
backside. If you get one with a USB3 internal port then you can move
one of the backside (shared) USB3 ports to the front-facing USB drive
hub.

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Yes wrote:
I have an Antec 300 Illusion case. There are two USB 2.0 connector
ports on the front. I'm thinking that I may want to upgrade them to
USB 3.0.

Has anyone upgraded USB 2 ports on a chassis to USB 3? I'd like to get
some idea of what would need to be done. I could, of course, add a USB
3.0 hub instead, but it'd be nice to keep down the amount of clutter on
my desk.

Thanks,

John

Since you want your new USB3 ports on the
front, you will need a USB 5.25" tray for the
front of the computer, plus the extension cable
that leads to a 20 pin header on a USB3 add-in
PCI Express card.

This is a picture of a USB3 card and chip, where
the chip supports four USB3 ports. The bandwidth
is shared, so if all ports are used at the same
time, the bandwidth on each is 1/4 of 5Gbits/sec.
They refuse to make all the ports internal ones,
and by buying a four port card, we get two
internal ports to use.

https://cc.cnetcontent.com/inlinecon...f/original.jpg

Now, on the part facing you, are two connectors.

The SATA 15p on the left, optionally provides
+5V power to the ports. Even though a PCIe card
has 3.3V and 12V pins on the edge card, it's still
able to deliver a small amount of DC power as +5V
to the ports on its own. Adding the SATA 15p increases
the total amps available. Most likely, you could
only "charge stuff" via this port, while the
computer is running. If you plan on running
really heavy loads on the ports, connect up
a SATA 15p for additional power.

The connector on the right, is the internal
wiring header. The USB3 defacto standard is a
20 pin header carrying two USB3 ports. The
actual USB3 connector has 9 contacts, and the
tenth contact could be an extra ground or something.
The 20 pin "pin header" has room for two USB3
interfaces. The normal practice in the industry,
is to use one pin location as a "key" so the
connector cannot be installed wrong. So if one
pin is missing or blocked, that's its purpose,
to provide keying for alignment.

Now, on the front of the computer, we need something
like this, only the "tray version".

https://www.amazon.com/Kingwin-Split.../dp/B010NTIGNU

That's a female USB3 20 pin internal, to two USB3
nine pin connectors. The cable on that one,
is delightfully short.

One problem is, the "extra margin" designs. They want
to throw a hub chip into the tray, so they can raise the
price. So as soon as you see four ports on a tray, there's
an extra hub in the path. It uses one of the ports on
the 20 pin, and forks that to four connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/4-Ports-Metal...dp/B013QSTWIS/

This one is cheap, but still isn't a tray mount. This looks
like "good starting materials" for a home-brew tray design.

https://www.amazon.com/MMNNE-20-pin-.../dp/B01MXGQZFI

I'd probably make a fake tray with a chunk of plywood
and a couple computer case sliders, then bolt that
crap bracket to the front of it.

Note that the bracket in that case, does have two
screws. And if you remove the bracket, you'll find
an assembly that can be bolted to a sheet metal
tray you assemble yourself. For example, I have
a metalwork "nibbling tool" I got at RadioShack
years ago, which can be used to cut nice clean
rectangular holes in bodywork aluminum. So I could
make a clean looking tray solution with stuff in
the shop.

Paul

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

On Fri, 08 Jun 2018 18:49:18 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Yes wrote:
I have an Antec 300 Illusion case. There are two USB 2.0 connector
ports on the front. I'm thinking that I may want to upgrade them to
USB 3.0.

Has anyone upgraded USB 2 ports on a chassis to USB 3? I'd like to get
some idea of what would need to be done. I could, of course, add a USB
3.0 hub instead, but it'd be nice to keep down the amount of clutter on
my desk.

Thanks,

John

Since you want your new USB3 ports on the
front, you will need a USB 5.25" tray for the
front of the computer, plus the extension cable
that leads to a 20 pin header on a USB3 add-in
PCI Express card.


Or you could get something like this
https://www.amazon.com/Mailiya-Expan...dp/B01G86538S/
and have the ports at the back.

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Peter Johnson wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2018 18:49:18 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Yes wrote:
I have an Antec 300 Illusion case. There are two USB 2.0 connector
ports on the front. I'm thinking that I may want to upgrade them to
USB 3.0.

Has anyone upgraded USB 2 ports on a chassis to USB 3? I'd like to get
some idea of what would need to be done. I could, of course, add a USB
3.0 hub instead, but it'd be nice to keep down the amount of clutter on
my desk.

Thanks,

John
Since you want your new USB3 ports on the
front, you will need a USB 5.25" tray for the
front of the computer, plus the extension cable
that leads to a 20 pin header on a USB3 add-in
PCI Express card.


Or you could get something like this
https://www.amazon.com/Mailiya-Expan...dp/B01G86538S/
and have the ports at the back.

Quite true.

But I read the request as being the addition of
USB3 to the front of the computer.

For that, you use either the 20 pin pin header
standard (carries two USB3), or, if you can find
it, some trays use standard USB3 connectors
for the extension cable, and then you need a
USB3 card with standard USB3 connectors on
the inside of the computer. I didn't see any
examples of those when looking, and looping
cables through an open slot on the back of
the computer is an ugly solution.

I added a card just a couple days ago, as you
suggest, to my other machine, but I can do that
because the machine is on a table, and
the front and back connectors on the computer are
equally accessible. I don't need a tray solution
as a result. Many people have computer setups
where only the front top area is accessible,
and any back I/O are well under a desk. I always
keep my computers on tables (to avoid ingesting
stuff at floor level).

Paul

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Paul wrote:

But I read the request as being the addition of
USB3 to the front of the computer.

Me, too.

For that, you use either the 20 pin pin header
standard (carries two USB3), or, if you can find
it, some trays use standard USB3 connectors
for the extension cable, and then you need a
USB3 card with standard USB3 connectors on
the inside of the computer. I didn't see any
examples of those when looking, and looping
cables through an open slot on the back of
the computer is an ugly solution.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA1DS0DV6321
(I've not used this brand)

Has a 20-pin (only 19 pins needed and provided) for the doubled USB 3
port on the backside (internal) of the card, along with the 2 rear USB3
ports. However, just a PCI-e 1x card. The OP has not yet mentioned if
he has any free PCI-e slots.

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote:

But I read the request as being the addition of
USB3 to the front of the computer.

Me, too.

For that, you use either the 20 pin pin header
standard (carries two USB3), or, if you can find
it, some trays use standard USB3 connectors
for the extension cable, and then you need a
USB3 card with standard USB3 connectors on
the inside of the computer. I didn't see any
examples of those when looking, and looping
cables through an open slot on the back of
the computer is an ugly solution.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA1DS0DV6321
(I've not used this brand)

Has a 20-pin (only 19 pins needed and provided) for the doubled USB 3
port on the backside (internal) of the card, along with the 2 rear USB3
ports. However, just a PCI-e 1x card. The OP has not yet mentioned if
he has any free PCI-e slots.

That's a good point. I didn't even ask what kind of
motherboard this is. The computer case is 9 years old
(some time in 2009), PCI Express Rev.2 came out in the
year 2007, so it's possible the motherboard has PCIe.
Wiki says Rev.1 came out in the year 2003.

If you absolutely had to use a PCI slot for this,
chances are you wouldn't be able to get the internal
connector for running to a tray. And then you'd need
to loop a cable from outside the machine, back inside
to the back of the tray. There aren't a lot of
bridged cards like that, because the companies
designing them, won't sell a lot, and after
they make a single lot, they likely stop
making them.

Paul

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Paul wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Paul wrote:

... and then you need a USB3 card with standard USB3 connectors on
the inside of the computer. I didn't see any examples of those when
looking, and looping cables through an open slot on the back of the
computer is an ugly solution.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA1DS0DV6321
(I've not used this brand)

The OP has not yet mentioned if he has any free PCI-e slots.

That's a good point. I didn't even ask what kind of motherboard this
is. The computer case is 9 years old (some time in 2009), PCI Express
Rev.2 came out in the year 2007, so it's possible the motherboard has
PCIe. Wiki says Rev.1 came out in the year 2003.

If you absolutely had to use a PCI slot for this, chances are you
wouldn't be able to get the internal connector for running to a tray.
And then you'd need to loop a cable from outside the machine, back
inside to the back of the tray. There aren't a lot of bridged cards
like that, because the companies designing them, won't sell a lot,
and after they make a single lot, they likely stop making them.

I could look again but the last time (several months ago) when I got
interested in addeding USB3 to an old Acer mobo that only had USB2 and
with all its PCI-e slots used up (either the PCI-e 1x slot was
obstructed by the fat video card or a card in that slot would obstruct
airflow for the GPU's fans), a PCI (non-express) USB3 card ran around
$70, or more. Uffda! No thanks. I only remember the high price for a
PCI USB3 card, not if any had internal USB3 ports (which wasn't what I
was looking for, anyway).

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Paul wrote:

... and then you need a USB3 card with standard USB3 connectors on
the inside of the computer. I didn't see any examples of those when
looking, and looping cables through an open slot on the back of the
computer is an ugly solution.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA1DS0DV6321
(I've not used this brand)

The OP has not yet mentioned if he has any free PCI-e slots.
That's a good point. I didn't even ask what kind of motherboard this
is. The computer case is 9 years old (some time in 2009), PCI Express
Rev.2 came out in the year 2007, so it's possible the motherboard has
PCIe. Wiki says Rev.1 came out in the year 2003.

If you absolutely had to use a PCI slot for this, chances are you
wouldn't be able to get the internal connector for running to a tray.
And then you'd need to loop a cable from outside the machine, back
inside to the back of the tray. There aren't a lot of bridged cards
like that, because the companies designing them, won't sell a lot,
and after they make a single lot, they likely stop making them.

I could look again but the last time (several months ago) when I got
interested in addeding USB3 to an old Acer mobo that only had USB2 and
with all its PCI-e slots used up (either the PCI-e 1x slot was
obstructed by the fat video card or a card in that slot would obstruct
airflow for the GPU's fans), a PCI (non-express) USB3 card ran around
$70, or more. Uffda! No thanks. I only remember the high price for a
PCI USB3 card, not if any had internal USB3 ports (which wasn't what I
was looking for, anyway).

The bridged boards used to be about $20 more than the
non-bridged boards. But since the company making the
bridges got bought out, it's anyones guess as to whether
the new owner pricing will encourage usage of stuff
like that or not.

There is at least one PCIe to USB3 card which is as
expensive as your example card. But the claim to fame
on that add-in card, is it has two USB3 chips for
better bandwidth on two different ports, at the same
time. You could then run, say, two USB3 cameras
at full rate, one connected to each chip. You can
arrange your devices so there is no "sharing".

Paul

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

VanguardLH wrote:

Yes wrote:

I have an Antec 300 Illusion case. There are two USB 2.0 connector
ports on the front. I'm thinking that I may want to upgrade them to
USB 3.0.

Has anyone upgraded USB 2 ports on a chassis to USB 3? I'd like to
get some idea of what would need to be done. I could, of course,
add a USB 3.0 hub instead, but it'd be nice to keep down the amount
of clutter on my desk.

The problem is getting the case mounting ports that fit that case.
The USB port may not have its own bracket with tangs to snap into a
hole in the case. Rather it will be soldered onto a PCB that is
positioned behind the case.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2ik886t.jpg
My guess (since I couldn't find an inside view of that spot inside the
case) is there is one PCB that has the USB ports, audio jacks, and LED
soldered onto it and the wires run from the PCB.

Do you have any spare drive bays? If so, you can get a drive bay hub
that has one, or more, USB3 ports, like:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820223120
That adds 2 USB3 ports, 4 USB2 ports, an eSATA connection, and a card
reader. This one only had an average rating so you might want to hunt
around for other choices. If you have no spare SATA ports on the mobo
then the eSATA connector in this drive hub would be dead. Same if you
don't have any spare USB2 headers on the mobo.

Sometimes there are USB2 headers on the mobo that are unused. You
could connect those to this drive bay hub along with the USB3 header
on the mobo. If your mobo only has USB2 headers then the mobo has no
USB3 support which means you'll have to add a USB3 daughtercard.
Some USB3 cards have an internal USB3 connector you could use to go
to the USB drive hub; however, often the internal USB connector is
shared with one of the external USB ports on that card.

You mention the case but not the motherboard, so no idea what you'll
have to do to add USB3 support. No mention of what USB headers are
already used on the mobo. If the mobo has it, run an unused USB3
header on the mobo to the USB drive hub. If not, you'll have to add
a USB3 daughtercard which will already give you USB3 external ports
on the backside. If you get one with a USB3 internal port then you
can move one of the backside (shared) USB3 ports to the front-facing
USB drive hub.

I have an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO USB3 mobo. It has two USB 3 ports and an
eSATA connector on the back side of the case plus USB and SATA
connectors on the mobo.

The reason for my question is that 1. it's difficult for me to reach
the USB 3 ports on the back of the case, 2. the USB 3 device I have has
a short cable (say 6 inches) which makes it awkward to plug in and use
given my pc's location and 3. I didn't know what upgrading the chassis'
existing USB 2 connectors to USB 3.0 might entail. If the upgrading of
a USB 2 port on the front to a USB 3 port were only a matter of getting
a new set of wiring suitable for USB 3, then that would be tempting to
do. On the other hand, I've seen external hubs that plug into the
external USB 3 connector and have an external AC/DC power brick to
provide the power for more USB 3 devices. I could accommodate that if
need be.

At the moment, I'm rather shell shocked and not particularly looking
forward to messing around the wiring inside my pc. As many of the
regulars here know, I had a severe problem in early May involving my
PSU when I tried to add on another HD to my pc. After all was said and
done, I lost two of my three hard drives (drive C:\ still works), lost
my DVD burner drive, lost the internal fan at the top of the case,
replaced the PSU and, after several weeks dealing with two DOA HD
drives, received one that works. All in all, I feel a bit down and
jinxed at the moment, particularly facing the task to reconstruct
several data files.

Other replies pointed out some alternatives such as an internal hub
fitting into a drive bay. That idea had not crossed my mind. Ditto,
the cable suggestion from Paul.

My mobo has PCI-e slots on it that are not usable due to the location
of the graphics card. When I moved the graphics card from its existing
position to the other same type slot on the mobo, I chickened out. The
graphics card was immediately above the PSU fan (the PSU is mounted at
the bottom of the chassis), and the distance between the card and the
PSU fan looked very narrow. I was worried about air circulation and
possible overheating of the graphics card.

John

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Paul wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote:

But I read the request as being the addition of
USB3 to the front of the computer.

Me, too.

For that, you use either the 20 pin pin header
standard (carries two USB3), or, if you can find
it, some trays use standard USB3 connectors
for the extension cable, and then you need a
USB3 card with standard USB3 connectors on
the inside of the computer. I didn't see any
examples of those when looking, and looping
cables through an open slot on the back of
the computer is an ugly solution.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA1DS0DV6321
(I've not used this brand)

Has a 20-pin (only 19 pins needed and provided) for the doubled USB
3 port on the backside (internal) of the card, along with the 2
rear USB3 ports. However, just a PCI-e 1x card. The OP has not
yet mentioned if he has any free PCI-e slots.

That's a good point. I didn't even ask what kind of
motherboard this is. The computer case is 9 years old
(some time in 2009), PCI Express Rev.2 came out in the
year 2007, so it's possible the motherboard has PCIe.
Wiki says Rev.1 came out in the year 2003.

If you absolutely had to use a PCI slot for this,
chances are you wouldn't be able to get the internal
connector for running to a tray. And then you'd need
to loop a cable from outside the machine, back inside
to the back of the tray. There aren't a lot of
bridged cards like that, because the companies
designing them, won't sell a lot, and after
they make a single lot, they likely stop
making them.

Paul

I find it difficult plugging and unplugging cords on the rear of the
case - cramped quarters and restricted access make any frequent cord
changing a hassle. The two USB 3.0 ports are, of course, on the back,
and they are the ones I'd want to use with my USB 3.0 external HD
drive. The USB 2.0 ports on the front of the case are convenient but
don't have the same data transfer speed as USB 3.0.

Your response about hubs that fit into the external drive bay of the
case is something that I overlooked. I'll give it thought.

John

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 07:18:02 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

I have an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO USB3 mobo.

Damn -- $359...
https://www.amazon.com/Asus-M4A89GTD.../dp/B003964KK8

If an older model for Amazon's hm, discretionary merchant-pricing
slots. ASUS calling it a Pro/USB3 is a little redundant. I figured
when I got a socket three, although Gigabyte and somewhat more dated
by present driver standards, is it was probably how things are just
done for USB3 convenience: you get USB3 stuck on the back-plane. Least
I did, two plus two, for the extra dedicated USB3 ports sandwiched
into thereabouts, alongside usual two USB2 ports adjacent the NetWerk
RJ45 connection.

Wow, you've got 12 USB2 (8-ports MID-board pin arrays), which is kind
of totally something. . .I guess. ...Firewire, cool - the "standard"
for sound recording gear for some time. Onboard graphics -- I like,
the way to go, at least for me.

But I only just paid $50 for the Gigabyte AM3 because the floor
dropped out on octal cores, a little while ago, due to Ryzen. A
low-wattage variant, primo -- octal bulldozer type, AKA .not. a
250-watt monstrosity, for an unheard-of $90 splurge, plus ensuring any
driver related issues are grandfathered in. ...Probably goes like a
duck into water in typical *nix box configs.

Offhand, a Phenom six-cores sounds conceivably older, maybe a year or
two, in the ASUS config. I can't believe, though, a build like that
would eat two HDD, DVD, and case fan. Outer Limits stuff.

Digging into PCs plain ain't done right if it ain't fun. And scared
don't count when it's out of bounds;- most rules fall under: if you
can pay then that's the ticket to play.

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

On 10/06/2018 08:18, Yes wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:

Yes wrote:

I have an Antec 300 Illusion case. There are two USB 2.0 connector
ports on the front. I'm thinking that I may want to upgrade them to
USB 3.0.

Has anyone upgraded USB 2 ports on a chassis to USB 3? I'd like to
get some idea of what would need to be done. I could, of course,
add a USB 3.0 hub instead, but it'd be nice to keep down the amount
of clutter on my desk.

The problem is getting the case mounting ports that fit that case.
The USB port may not have its own bracket with tangs to snap into a
hole in the case. Rather it will be soldered onto a PCB that is
positioned behind the case.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2ik886t.jpg
My guess (since I couldn't find an inside view of that spot inside the
case) is there is one PCB that has the USB ports, audio jacks, and LED
soldered onto it and the wires run from the PCB.

Do you have any spare drive bays? If so, you can get a drive bay hub
that has one, or more, USB3 ports, like:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820223120
That adds 2 USB3 ports, 4 USB2 ports, an eSATA connection, and a card
reader. This one only had an average rating so you might want to hunt
around for other choices. If you have no spare SATA ports on the mobo
then the eSATA connector in this drive hub would be dead. Same if you
don't have any spare USB2 headers on the mobo.

Sometimes there are USB2 headers on the mobo that are unused. You
could connect those to this drive bay hub along with the USB3 header
on the mobo. If your mobo only has USB2 headers then the mobo has no
USB3 support which means you'll have to add a USB3 daughtercard.
Some USB3 cards have an internal USB3 connector you could use to go
to the USB drive hub; however, often the internal USB connector is
shared with one of the external USB ports on that card.

You mention the case but not the motherboard, so no idea what you'll
have to do to add USB3 support. No mention of what USB headers are
already used on the mobo. If the mobo has it, run an unused USB3
header on the mobo to the USB drive hub. If not, you'll have to add
a USB3 daughtercard which will already give you USB3 external ports
on the backside. If you get one with a USB3 internal port then you
can move one of the backside (shared) USB3 ports to the front-facing
USB drive hub.

I have an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO USB3 mobo. It has two USB 3 ports and an
eSATA connector on the back side of the case plus USB and SATA
connectors on the mobo.
The above board does not have an internal USB3 connector, if it had you
would have been able to simply plug in the likes of this;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-USB-3-...oAAOSwc-tY2QfW

A PCIe card could be acquired to implement the missing Internal USB3
connector, example;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHIC-Dual...sAAOSwnHda4Zyl

However the above being quite a bit of cost, other options are;
1, Buy a USB3 Hub, example;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Ports-U...rbls z7jtLFzA

2, Simply buy a USB3 extension cable, eg;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/G-Shield-...tQ--tgyT2XAjKA

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Flasherly wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 07:18:02 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

I have an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO USB3 mobo.

Damn -- $359...

https://www.amazon.com/Asus-M4A89GTD.../dp/B003964KK8

If an older model for Amazon's hm, discretionary merchant-pricing
slots. ASUS calling it a Pro/USB3 is a little redundant. I figured
when I got a socket three, although Gigabyte and somewhat more dated
by present driver standards, is it was probably how things are just
done for USB3 convenience: you get USB3 stuck on the back-plane. Least
I did, two plus two, for the extra dedicated USB3 ports sandwiched
into thereabouts, alongside usual two USB2 ports adjacent the NetWerk
RJ45 connection.

Wow, you've got 12 USB2 (8-ports MID-board pin arrays), which is kind
of totally something. . .I guess. ...Firewire, cool - the "standard"
for sound recording gear for some time. Onboard graphics -- I like,
the way to go, at least for me.

But I only just paid $50 for the Gigabyte AM3 because the floor
dropped out on octal cores, a little while ago, due to Ryzen. A
low-wattage variant, primo -- octal bulldozer type, AKA .not. a
250-watt monstrosity, for an unheard-of $90 splurge, plus ensuring any
driver related issues are grandfathered in. ...Probably goes like a
duck into water in typical *nix box configs.

Offhand, a Phenom six-cores sounds conceivably older, maybe a year or
two, in the ASUS config. I can't believe, though, a build like that
would eat two HDD, DVD, and case fan. Outer Limits stuff.

Digging into PCs plain ain't done right if it ain't fun. And scared
don't count when it's out of bounds;- most rules fall under: if you
can pay then that's the ticket to play.

I can't say I'm surprised at Amazon's price, but I have a very low
opinion of their pricing on a lot of items anyway.

I bought my mobo back in 2010 or so. It was a lot less costly then :-)

IIRC, ASUS offered two similarly named mobos at the time when I bought
it; perhaps one was for the European market and one for the U.S. ??? -
shrug.

Regardless, my mobo has held up well over the years and still does what
I want it to do. Where it shows its age is wrt new tech. Data
transfer speed is something I like, so it'd be nice to have USB 3.1
capability. And I seem to recall reading something about similar
progress for SATA transfer speeds. My mobo of course handles USB 3.0,
not the newer USB 3.1.

In retrospect, the mobo is probably not a good match with the case
because the PSU is located on the bottom. The mobo has two slots for a
graphics card. I tried the suggestion to move the graphics card to the
other slot in order to make the PCI-e slots accessible. Doing so freed
up access to the PCI-e slots but created what seems to me a different
problem - the graphics card was immediately above the fan of the PSU.
There was a narrow gap between the card and the PSU. I was worried
that the flow of the air from the PSU would overheat the graphics card
- the PSU fan and the graphics card's fan faced other directly - so I
placed the card back to where I had it to begin with.

John

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Patrick wrote:

On 10/06/2018 08:18, Yes wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:

Yes wrote:

I have an Antec 300 Illusion case. There are two USB 2.0
connector ports on the front. I'm thinking that I may want to
upgrade them to USB 3.0.

Has anyone upgraded USB 2 ports on a chassis to USB 3? I'd
like to get some idea of what would need to be done. I could,
of course, add a USB 3.0 hub instead, but it'd be nice to keep
down the amount of clutter on my desk.

The problem is getting the case mounting ports that fit that case.
The USB port may not have its own bracket with tangs to snap into
a hole in the case. Rather it will be soldered onto a PCB that is
positioned behind the case.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2ik886t.jpg
My guess (since I couldn't find an inside view of that spot
inside the case) is there is one PCB that has the USB ports,
audio jacks, and LED soldered onto it and the wires run from the
PCB.

Do you have any spare drive bays? If so, you can get a drive bay
hub that has one, or more, USB3 ports, like:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820223120
That adds 2 USB3 ports, 4 USB2 ports, an eSATA connection, and a
card reader. This one only had an average rating so you might
want to hunt around for other choices. If you have no spare SATA
ports on the mobo then the eSATA connector in this drive hub
would be dead. Same if you don't have any spare USB2 headers on
the mobo.

Sometimes there are USB2 headers on the mobo that are unused. You
could connect those to this drive bay hub along with the USB3
header on the mobo. If your mobo only has USB2 headers then the
mobo has no USB3 support which means you'll have to add a USB3
daughtercard. Some USB3 cards have an internal USB3 connector
you could use to go to the USB drive hub; however, often the
internal USB connector is shared with one of the external USB
ports on that card.

You mention the case but not the motherboard, so no idea what
you'll have to do to add USB3 support. No mention of what USB
headers are already used on the mobo. If the mobo has it, run an
unused USB3 header on the mobo to the USB drive hub. If not,
you'll have to add a USB3 daughtercard which will already give
you USB3 external ports on the backside. If you get one with a
USB3 internal port then you can move one of the backside (shared)
USB3 ports to the front-facing USB drive hub.

I have an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO USB3 mobo. It has two USB 3 ports and
an eSATA connector on the back side of the case plus USB and SATA
connectors on the mobo.
The above board does not have an internal USB3 connector, if it had
you would have been able to simply plug in the likes of this;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-USB-3-...oAAOSwc-tY2QfW

A PCIe card could be acquired to implement the missing Internal USB3
connector, example;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHIC-Dual...sAAOSwnHda4Zyl

However the above being quite a bit of cost, other options are;
1, Buy a USB3 Hub, example;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Ports-U...rbls z7jtLFzA

2, Simply buy a USB3 extension cable, eg;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/G-Shield-...tQ--tgyT2XAjKA

Yes, option 1 is what I was talking about in my OP. Option 2 is one I
had forgotten about. I'm already using a USB 2.0 extender on my other
computer.

John

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Yes, er, John wrote:

I have an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO USB3 mobo. It has two USB 3 ports and an
eSATA connector on the back side of the case plus USB and SATA
connectors on the mobo.

The reason for my question is that 1. it's difficult for me to reach
the USB 3 ports on the back of the case, 2. the USB 3 device I have has
a short cable (say 6 inches) which makes it awkward to plug in and use
given my pc's location and 3. I didn't know what upgrading the chassis'
existing USB 2 connectors to USB 3.0 might entail. If the upgrading of
a USB 2 port on the front to a USB 3 port were only a matter of getting
a new set of wiring suitable for USB 3, then that would be tempting to
do. On the other hand, I've seen external hubs that plug into the
external USB 3 connector and have an external AC/DC power brick to
provide the power for more USB 3 devices. I could accommodate that if
need be.

At the moment, I'm rather shell shocked and not particularly looking
forward to messing around the wiring inside my pc. As many of the
regulars here know, I had a severe problem in early May involving my
PSU when I tried to add on another HD to my pc. After all was said and
done, I lost two of my three hard drives (drive C:\ still works), lost
my DVD burner drive, lost the internal fan at the top of the case,
replaced the PSU and, after several weeks dealing with two DOA HD
drives, received one that works. All in all, I feel a bit down and
jinxed at the moment, particularly facing the task to reconstruct
several data files.

Other replies pointed out some alternatives such as an internal hub
fitting into a drive bay. That idea had not crossed my mind. Ditto,
the cable suggestion from Paul.

My mobo has PCI-e slots on it that are not usable due to the location
of the graphics card. When I moved the graphics card from its existing
position to the other same type slot on the mobo, I chickened out. The
graphics card was immediately above the PSU fan (the PSU is mounted at
the bottom of the chassis), and the distance between the card and the
PSU fan looked very narrow. I was worried about air circulation and
possible overheating of the graphics card.

A USB3 hub connected to the backpanel USB3 port would be easiest;
however, all devices connected to that hub will share its bandwidth. If
only one device is active on the hub at a time then it gets full
bandwidth; else, multiple devices will contend for use of the one USB
port to which the hub is connected.

There are passive USB hubs (no external power) but those are only for
USB2 devices and then only for low-power USB2 devices (or 1 high-power
USB2 device - but then you don't need the hub for 1 device). Powered
USB hubs don't rely on the +5V power from the USB port on the PC to
share amongst multiple devices. With USB3 you definitely need a powered
USB3 hub, and make sure the output amperage will support ALL of the
ports on the hub. Multiple the number of ports on the USB3 hub by 0.9A,
and the power adapter should output that, or more. If the hub has 4
USB3 ports then the power adapter should output 3.6A minimum. Of
course, with a powered hub, you have the hub sitting somewhere outside
the PC's case along with a USB3 cable and power cord from the hub to add
to a speghetti mess of cables and boxes strewn from the PC case.

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M4...pecifications/
The only USB3 connections are the backpanel ports. No mobo headers for
USB3 connections. To have more internal USB3 connections, you need to
add a USB3 daughtercard, and preferrably one with an internal USB3 port
(to go to a drive bay USB hub).

The other choice (than an external powered USB3 hub) is to get a USB3
daughtercard to plug into a PCI-e slot (*if* you have an unused one or
willing to sacrifice some other card to usurp its slot) that has an
internal USB3 connector. In an empty drive bay, you install a USB hub
(which will often include a card reader). The wiring to the card is for
power (a 4-pin Molex connector where likely you need a Y-adapter unless
you have a free Molex connector from the PSU) and the USB3 cable from
the card's internal connector to the back of the drive bay USB hub. For
this setup, you need: 1 unused PCI-e card slot in the mobo (that is not
obstructed by, say, a video card or the card would obstruct airflow into
a video card for its fans), 1 unused drive bay, a USB3 cable from card
to drive hub (some hubs come with the cable), and possibly a Molex
Y-adapter cable. This would give you 2, or more, backpanel USB3 ports
along with 2 frontside USB3 ports. You would have to determine if the
drive bay USB hub would be within reach of the shorty cable from your
USB3 device; however, it's not likely a permanent cable, so you could
use a longer USB3 cable from the device to a backpanel USB3 port.

Since the mobo has an eSATA port, maybe you could use that. If the
external USB-attached drive is a pre-built, you're stuck with the ports
(interfaces) that the vendor gave you for that model. If you built the
external drive yourself (got a drive, put it into a case), you could get
a drive case that has both USB3 and eSATA ports. Then you could attach
the external drive to the eSATA port on the backpanel.

Of all the solutions, easiest is using a powered USB3 hub; however, all
active devices on that hub will contend for sharing the bandwidth.
Whether sharing bandwidth is an issue depends on when you use the
devices attached to the USB hub.

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 16:07:56 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

I can't say I'm surprised at Amazon's price, but I have a very low
opinion of their pricing on a lot of items anyway.

I bought my mobo back in 2010 or so. It was a lot less costly then :-)

IIRC, ASUS offered two similarly named mobos at the time when I bought
it; perhaps one was for the European market and one for the U.S. ??? -
shrug.

Regardless, my mobo has held up well over the years and still does what
I want it to do. Where it shows its age is wrt new tech. Data
transfer speed is something I like, so it'd be nice to have USB 3.1
capability. And I seem to recall reading something about similar
progress for SATA transfer speeds. My mobo of course handles USB 3.0,
not the newer USB 3.1.

In retrospect, the mobo is probably not a good match with the case
because the PSU is located on the bottom. The mobo has two slots for a
graphics card. I tried the suggestion to move the graphics card to the
other slot in order to make the PCI-e slots accessible. Doing so freed
up access to the PCI-e slots but created what seems to me a different
problem - the graphics card was immediately above the fan of the PSU.
There was a narrow gap between the card and the PSU. I was worried
that the flow of the air from the PSU would overheat the graphics card
- the PSU fan and the graphics card's fan faced other directly - so I
placed the card back to where I had it to begin with.

An older Asus than I'd first suspected. A bit. Mine, the Gigabyte,
I'd as well suspect for design concepts dated closer to yours than
not. (AMD's generation past on Bulldozer technology.) Perhaps a
little more popular for a budget-builder's board, though, or less apt
to pop in the Amazon's mystery-bin pricing rackets....

Gigabyte 78LMT (rev6.0) FX-8300 Octal (Hm, seems I can also run your
processor.)
Order Date: 5/26/2017
GIGABYTE GA-78LMT-USB3 (rev. 6.0) AM3+ AMD 760G + SB710 USB 3.0 HDMI
Micro ATX AMD Motherboard 59.99

Wrong again...$178, as the board is probably originally worth half
yours in the first place. ...If to linearly extrapolate on a factor
of three, then makes your paid price roundabout (359/3=)$119.
https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GA-7.../dp/B008TZZ4WC

Amazon's just fine, more than fine, by the way. They're just another
swinging player, swinging along where everyone has to follow the same
simple rules as do you: To get over on them before they're on top of
you and stay out of jail to continue to play. The game is named of
course to date back to its obscure originality, called Caveat Emptor.

I haven't bothered yet to install the USB3 point-zero drivers for
mine, although I do exclusive use onboard video because I like it
extra simple. Game play is far to proprietorially challenging for my
league.

I probably started to give on all that heat somewhere back with a
12-bay case, 4 DVD writers, and a slew of custom-wired, dinky-butted
case fans, possibly ten, each I'd ingeniously thought out for
placement, for that peculiar epoch in computing. As a result, I now
put on one grapefruit-sized monster CPU cooler on all CPUs,
regardless, for cheap $20 on-sale insurance, turn around, and just
leave one case side, (the side opposite where the MB is mounted), off
and removed. If laying the case on its side, on a table, letting heat
arise up and out, so much the better;- I've both vertical- and
horizontal-standing instances of removed case sides;- with one last
residual case fan, a modern big-butted, and quiet, case fan dedicated
to the HDD plane. And that's about all there is to not being bothered
to button back up a case for all those scary-looking wires stuffed
wherever is most convenient for stuff that gets jammed inside and out
of sight.

Easy-&-peasy, as you please, for doing less hard maintenance time.

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Yes wrote:
Flasherly wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 07:18:02 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

I have an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO USB3 mobo.
Damn -- $359...

https://www.amazon.com/Asus-M4A89GTD.../dp/B003964KK8
If an older model for Amazon's hm, discretionary merchant-pricing
slots. ASUS calling it a Pro/USB3 is a little redundant. I figured
when I got a socket three, although Gigabyte and somewhat more dated
by present driver standards, is it was probably how things are just
done for USB3 convenience: you get USB3 stuck on the back-plane. Least
I did, two plus two, for the extra dedicated USB3 ports sandwiched
into thereabouts, alongside usual two USB2 ports adjacent the NetWerk
RJ45 connection.

Wow, you've got 12 USB2 (8-ports MID-board pin arrays), which is kind
of totally something. . .I guess. ...Firewire, cool - the "standard"
for sound recording gear for some time. Onboard graphics -- I like,
the way to go, at least for me.

But I only just paid $50 for the Gigabyte AM3 because the floor
dropped out on octal cores, a little while ago, due to Ryzen. A
low-wattage variant, primo -- octal bulldozer type, AKA .not. a
250-watt monstrosity, for an unheard-of $90 splurge, plus ensuring any
driver related issues are grandfathered in. ...Probably goes like a
duck into water in typical *nix box configs.

Offhand, a Phenom six-cores sounds conceivably older, maybe a year or
two, in the ASUS config. I can't believe, though, a build like that
would eat two HDD, DVD, and case fan. Outer Limits stuff.

Digging into PCs plain ain't done right if it ain't fun. And scared
don't count when it's out of bounds;- most rules fall under: if you
can pay then that's the ticket to play.

I can't say I'm surprised at Amazon's price, but I have a very low
opinion of their pricing on a lot of items anyway.

I bought my mobo back in 2010 or so. It was a lot less costly then :-)

IIRC, ASUS offered two similarly named mobos at the time when I bought
it; perhaps one was for the European market and one for the U.S. ??? -
shrug.

Regardless, my mobo has held up well over the years and still does what
I want it to do. Where it shows its age is wrt new tech. Data
transfer speed is something I like, so it'd be nice to have USB 3.1
capability. And I seem to recall reading something about similar
progress for SATA transfer speeds. My mobo of course handles USB 3.0,
not the newer USB 3.1.

In retrospect, the mobo is probably not a good match with the case
because the PSU is located on the bottom. The mobo has two slots for a
graphics card. I tried the suggestion to move the graphics card to the
other slot in order to make the PCI-e slots accessible. Doing so freed
up access to the PCI-e slots but created what seems to me a different
problem - the graphics card was immediately above the fan of the PSU.
There was a narrow gap between the card and the PSU. I was worried
that the flow of the air from the PSU would overheat the graphics card
- the PSU fan and the graphics card's fan faced other directly - so I
placed the card back to where I had it to begin with.

John

Isn't the PSU fan "pulling" in the "exhaust" direction ?

The warm cloud around the video, should be moving through
the PSU. (Just as normally, a PSU would pull the warm cloud
from the CPU, through the PSU cabinet.)

And your motherboard has nice slots, as they're
all Rev.2 type.

https://s15.postimg.cc/8ueqc9mez/rev2_lanes.gif

Older USB3 chips, have only a single lane (x1).
The newer USB3.1 chips have x2 wiring and an
x4 edge connector. So far, I haven't been "blown
away" by the improvement. I don't have good
enough test devices for that.

Paul

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Flasherly wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 16:07:56 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

I can't say I'm surprised at Amazon's price, but I have a very low
opinion of their pricing on a lot of items anyway.

- snipped --

-- edited Flasherly reply


Amazon's just fine, more than fine, by the way. They're just another
swinging player, swinging along where everyone has to follow the same
simple rules as do you: To get over on them before they're on top of
you and stay out of jail to continue to play. The game is named of
course to date back to its obscure originality, called Caveat Emptor.


-- edited Flasherly reply

OFF TOPIC Amazon
Buying stuff through Amazon definitely is a Caveat Emptor. Sometimes
prices are good, sometimes ridiculously overpriced. I check it out for
non-computer goods, mainly grocer store type canned and dry goods. I
have a sweet tooth and the pricing for those type of goods may be up to
2.5 times higher than what I would pay for at the grocer in person.
Recently I bought a Honeywell floor fan. Amazon's prices were $22+.
The price for the same model at Target and Walmart was $12. I'm
debating with myself whether to subscribe to Amazon Prime for their
digital content. So, I will buy stuff at Amazon, but only after making
sure that I don't find cheaper prices for the merchandise at another
vendor.

My apologies about the rant. I can see Amazon's appeal, especially
shipping, but I no longer automatically think of Amazon as offering the
best prices for goods. As you point out, caveat emptor.

John

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

Paul wrote:

Yes wrote:
Flasherly wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 07:18:02 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

I have an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO USB3 mobo.
Damn -- $359...


https://www.amazon.com/Asus-M4A89GTD.../dp/B003964KK8
If an older model for Amazon's hm, discretionary merchant-pricing
slots. ASUS calling it a Pro/USB3 is a little redundant. I
figured when I got a socket three, although Gigabyte and somewhat
more dated by present driver standards, is it was probably how
things are just done for USB3 convenience: you get USB3 stuck on
the back-plane. Least I did, two plus two, for the extra
dedicated USB3 ports sandwiched into thereabouts, alongside usual
two USB2 ports adjacent the NetWerk RJ45 connection.

Wow, you've got 12 USB2 (8-ports MID-board pin arrays), which is
kind of totally something. . .I guess. ...Firewire, cool - the
"standard" for sound recording gear for some time. Onboard
graphics -- I like, the way to go, at least for me.

But I only just paid $50 for the Gigabyte AM3 because the floor
dropped out on octal cores, a little while ago, due to Ryzen. A
low-wattage variant, primo -- octal bulldozer type, AKA .not. a
250-watt monstrosity, for an unheard-of $90 splurge, plus
ensuring any driver related issues are grandfathered in.
...Probably goes like a duck into water in typical *nix box
configs.

Offhand, a Phenom six-cores sounds conceivably older, maybe a
year or two, in the ASUS config. I can't believe, though, a
build like that would eat two HDD, DVD, and case fan. Outer
Limits stuff.

Digging into PCs plain ain't done right if it ain't fun. And
scared don't count when it's out of bounds;- most rules fall
under: if you can pay then that's the ticket to play.

I can't say I'm surprised at Amazon's price, but I have a very low
opinion of their pricing on a lot of items anyway.

I bought my mobo back in 2010 or so. It was a lot less costly then
:-)

IIRC, ASUS offered two similarly named mobos at the time when I
bought it; perhaps one was for the European market and one for the
U.S. ??? - shrug.

Regardless, my mobo has held up well over the years and still does
what I want it to do. Where it shows its age is wrt new tech. Data
transfer speed is something I like, so it'd be nice to have USB 3.1
capability. And I seem to recall reading something about similar
progress for SATA transfer speeds. My mobo of course handles USB
3.0, not the newer USB 3.1.

In retrospect, the mobo is probably not a good match with the case
because the PSU is located on the bottom. The mobo has two slots
for a graphics card. I tried the suggestion to move the graphics
card to the other slot in order to make the PCI-e slots accessible.
Doing so freed up access to the PCI-e slots but created what seems
to me a different problem - the graphics card was immediately above
the fan of the PSU. There was a narrow gap between the card and
the PSU. I was worried that the flow of the air from the PSU would
overheat the graphics card - the PSU fan and the graphics card's
fan faced other directly - so I placed the card back to where I had
it to begin with.

John

Isn't the PSU fan "pulling" in the "exhaust" direction ?

The warm cloud around the video, should be moving through
the PSU. (Just as normally, a PSU would pull the warm cloud
from the CPU, through the PSU cabinet.)

And your motherboard has nice slots, as they're
all Rev.2 type.

https://s15.postimg.cc/8ueqc9mez/rev2_lanes.gif

Older USB3 chips, have only a single lane (x1).
The newer USB3.1 chips have x2 wiring and an
x4 edge connector. So far, I haven't been "blown
away" by the improvement. I don't have good
enough test devices for that.

Paul

You're right. The air flow from the graphics card pushes down towards
the bottom of the case. That of the PSU fan seems to be sucking air
downwards and pushing it out the back of the case. I interpreted the
PSU description I read to mean that the PSU sucked the air in from the
rear and directed it up into the case in order to blow air over the CPU
and the fan at the top of the case would vent the hot air out the top.

John

Upgrading USB 2 to USB 3 ports on a computer case
 

On Mon, 11 Jun 2018 07:04:15 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

Buying stuff through Amazon definitely is a Caveat Emptor. Sometimes
prices are good, sometimes ridiculously overpriced. I check it out for
non-computer goods, mainly grocer store type canned and dry goods. I
have a sweet tooth and the pricing for those type of goods may be up to
2.5 times higher than what I would pay for at the grocer in person.
Recently I bought a Honeywell floor fan. Amazon's prices were $22+.
The price for the same model at Target and Walmart was $12. I'm
debating with myself whether to subscribe to Amazon Prime for their
digital content. So, I will buy stuff at Amazon, but only after making
sure that I don't find cheaper prices for the merchandise at another
vendor.

My apologies about the rant. I can see Amazon's appeal, especially
shipping, but I no longer automatically think of Amazon as offering the
best prices for goods. As you point out, caveat emptor.

No apologies for me. I can't see it anymore. Too many times up and
around making mountains from molehills in investing. They're all so
many tools to a modern world of mercantilism. A whole WEB of them.
Integrals, such as Amazon, among several if not too few whereby to
drill for the very best possible, from a widest array of solutions
presented, at the very least possible inconvenience to your wallet. A
true capitalist is an élitist -- one who _knows_ better (than anyone
else);- he's apt to be found in search of another, a lesser being
willing to play _his_ game: All it takes to tango is a willingness to
meet him and put up the money behind where your big mouth is.

Count me out. Although I _do_ irrevocably know that I can do again,
what I do not know is why, particularly, I should invest for the sake
of continued investment;- Ergo sum: to not longer be the player, I
must then be a spec, a mote, beneath even a mere fly on a wall. ;-0