computer components & hardware - A strange weakness in all MS Windows versions

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A strange weakness in all MS Windows versions

It contains no real/decent programming language, unlike ms-dos that did contain QBASIC, and the C64 which also contained BASIC.

Something is better than nothing.

How will "our" kinds now learn to program ?! It's a bit strange.

I would recommend Microsoft to think about what they could add to Windows to make Windows more KIDS friendly.

Maybe some "sandbox" so they can play in that, might make parents feel more at ease.

Right now I would not recommend kids taking place behind Windows, to much risk of damage.

A special environment might be nice though. I do believe this should be build in so kids can have some fun too =D

Sandbox does deprive them a little bit from learning the true system underneath it, but in time they might "shed" their sandbox and learn the real windows =D

Bye for now,
Skybuck =D

A strange weakness in all MS Windows versions

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 15:38:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:

It contains no real/decent programming language, unlike ms-dos that did contain QBASIC, and the C64 which also contained BASIC.

Something is better than nothing.

Microsoft Visual Studio is free. Not included within Windows itself, but
still easy to get.
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/downloads/

Also, everyone who has Microsoft Office already has a Visual Basic (VBA)
development environment, so that could be another option. Each of the MS
Office applications has the VBA IDE built in.

A strange weakness in all MS Windows versions

On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 1:56:49 AM UTC+1, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 15:38:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:

It contains no real/decent programming language, unlike ms-dos that did contain QBASIC, and the C64 which also contained BASIC.

Something is better than nothing.

Microsoft Visual Studio is free. Not included within Windows itself, but
still easy to get.
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/downloads/

Also, everyone who has Microsoft Office already has a Visual Basic (VBA)
development environment, so that could be another option. Each of the MS
Office applications has the VBA IDE built in.

Kids may not know this, they clueless and fresh behind the ears ! ;) :)

They may just click what is available on the computer :)

Though nowadays with internet and webbrowsing/surfing they are more likely to discover a website to offer programming or maybe via lego toys.

Though this assumes they have internet access and/or lego technic toys ;) :)

Bye,
Skybuck =D

A strange weakness in all MS Windows versions

wrote:
On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 1:56:49 AM UTC+1, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 15:38:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:

It contains no real/decent programming language, unlike ms-dos that did contain QBASIC, and the C64 which also contained BASIC.

Something is better than nothing.
Microsoft Visual Studio is free. Not included within Windows itself, but
still easy to get.
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/downloads/

Also, everyone who has Microsoft Office already has a Visual Basic (VBA)
development environment, so that could be another option. Each of the MS
Office applications has the VBA IDE built in.

Kids may not know this, they clueless and fresh behind the ears ! ;) :)

They may just click what is available on the computer :)

Though nowadays with internet and webbrowsing/surfing they are more likely to discover a website to offer programming or maybe via lego toys.

Though this assumes they have internet access and/or lego technic toys ;) :)

Bye,
Skybuck =D

The free Visual Studio is called the Community Edition,
and it has a few programming languages included. They
removed C I think, in the latest version, and you might
have to go back a version to get C. The Microsoft blessed
equivalent is "C#".

At one time, the build instructions for Firefox involved
downloading Visual Studio, but the build only used
command line compile and link, using the compiler and
linker executable in Visual Studio. So no IDE integration
was needed (no .proj file) to make the build work.

That'll give you some idea how it can be used. With
GUI, or without GUI.

Visual Studio also includes WinDBG.

The Gnu compiler and the Visual Studio both make
win32 executables, but the formats are not exactly
the same. You can debug a GNU EXE using gdb.
You can debug a Visual Studio EXE using WinDBG.
While at one level they have similar functions,
the two toolsets are not exactly the same.
And using the debugger is when you notice that.

For five line programs, I keep a copy of
MinGW (GNU tools) for compile and link.
The MinGW64 projects (more than one) are
more annoying pieces of work. I couldn't get
one of those to work, because of some sort of
path problem I couldn't overcome.

Visual Studio can also be mighty annoying at times.
Several versions back, you could easily change your
include and lib trees without a lot of fuss. Then
they changed that and it's enough to make you
pull your hair out.

Paul

A strange weakness in all MS Windows versions

On 2/10/2020 12:29 AM, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 1:56:49 AM UTC+1, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 15:38:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:

It contains no real/decent programming language, unlike ms-dos that
did contain QBASIC, and the C64 which also contained BASIC.

Something is better than nothing.
Microsoft Visual Studio is free. Not included within Windows itself, but
still easy to get.
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/downloads/

Also, everyone who has Microsoft Office already has a Visual Basic (VBA)
development environment, so that could be another option. Each of the MS
Office applications has the VBA IDE built in.

Kids may not know this, they clueless and fresh behind the ears ! ;) :)

They may just click what is available on the computer :)

Though nowadays with internet and webbrowsing/surfing they are more
likely to discover a website to offer programming or maybe via lego toys.

Though this assumes they have internet access and/or lego technic toys
;) :)

Bye,
Â* Skybuck =D

The free Visual Studio is called the Community Edition,
and it has a few programming languages included. They
removed C I think, in the latest version, and you might
have to go back a version to get C. The Microsoft blessed
equivalent is "C#".

Visual Studio 2019 Community Edition still allows C. The trick is
to create a C++ project and then add code files with a .c extension
instead of .cpp. Visual Studio 2019 will automatically know the
difference.
Microsoft has been doing this at least as far back as Visual Studio
2017, the version I have.

Charlie

A strange weakness in all MS Windows versions

Besides from all the crappy versions of Visual Studio.

Last 3 times I tried it failed:

1. Windows update and Visual Studio conflict when installing on new system.

2. Visual Studio does not install if a service with C isn't running.

3. Visual Studio installer contained .CORE bug in installer couldn't install.

Mentioning other problems:

4. 2008 version had serious issue in editor causing it to be super slow.

5. 2012 has ugly gray/black icons.

6. 2010 very was kinda nice, but can't re-open project that were saved.

LOL.

The crap that is visual studio continues... I wouldn't be surprise if 2019 has some awfull bugs that will show up sooner then later.

I am not even sure if 2019 will install on an OS without platform update.

So I stay faaaaarrr away from it on my Main system.

I seriously cannot recommend Visual Studio to anybody.

Installing it successfully needed a virtual machine for me to undue Microsoft's **** ups.

That's a bit heavy for kids.

I might still try it on windows 7 new ISO-integrated install, now that hopefully windows update is dead. Yet I fear it's not totally dead so would have to de-install.

Basically installing Visual Studio requires a virtual machine to do it safely, or risk damage to main operating system.

Running a VM by a kid is a bit heavy ;)

THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

One of World's Biggest Software company cannot make decent development tools, quite odd.

Bye,
Skybuck =D

A strange weakness in all MS Windows versions

OH WAIT

I forgot one of the worst ones:

IT MUST INSTALL TO C quite a large quantity.

If low on SPACE on C drive which is most likely.

FORGET ABOUT IT.

Bye,
Skybuck.

A strange weakness in all MS Windows versions

I was wondering what happened to (q)basic. It seems to have evolved into VBScript, I never used it much didn't even know it exists on windows or that it can run by default.

I was just made aware for this by somebody showing me this:

Store this line in a file called HelloWorld.vbs

MsgBox("Hello, World!")

And there is a good chance it will run on your windows if it is somewhat recent ;) :)

This kinda reminds me a little bit of "melissa virus".. so yes... I do kinda know windows does have some kind of visual basic thingy... but not exactly sure where or what it is, it turns out it's everywhere... on the command line... in the browser.... in the server. YUP bill gates like this stuff... so now it's everywhere =D

Here is some more interesting information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBScript

What interests me for this topic/thread is the build in support in the operating system itself, seems usefull for administrators to automate things... apperently it can also do GUIs... so maybe it can also do some decent graphics, don't know about that =D

"
VBScript can also be used to create applications that run directly on a workstation running Microsoft Windows. The simplest example is a script that makes use of the Windows Script Host (WSH) environment. Such a script is usually in a stand-alone file with the file extension .vbs. The script can be invoked in two ways: Wscript.exe is used to display output and receive input through a GUI, such as dialog and input boxes. Cscript.exe is used in a command line environment.

VBScript can be included in two other types of scripting files: Windows Script Files, and HTML Applications.

A Windows Script File (WSF) is styled after XML. A WSF file can include multiple VBS files. As a result, WSF files provide a means for code reuse: a library of classes or functions can be stored in one or more .vbs files, which can be included in .wsf files, so the functionality can be reused in a modular way. The files have extension .wsf and can be executed using wscript..exe or cscript.exe, just as a .vbs file can.

An HTML Application (HTA) is styled after HTML. The HTML in the file is used to generate the user interface, and a scripting language such as VBScript is used for the program logic. The files have extension .hta and can be executed using mshta.exe.

VBScript (and JScript) can also be used in a Windows Script Component, an ActiveX-enabled script class that can be invoked by other COM-enabled applications.[10] These files have extension .wsc.

VBScript is simple to create and can be coded using an easy to use text editor like Notepad. A simple VBScript saved by the .vbs extension can be run on a Windows system by double clicking it.
"

One open question that remains is, is this "just a script"... or is this a "programming language".

What would be the technical difference between a "script" and a "language".

Maybe it was just called "script" to make it sound a little bit more cool or light weight not sure.

For now I am kinda happy to see that there is at least some programming possibility for windows build-in... not all versions, windows 95 might not have it, but since windows 98 and windows nt 4.0 it seems it does have this ! =D

Bye for now,
Skybuck.