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-   -   Intel CPU prices going up? (http://www.hardwarebanter.com/showthread.php?t=199231)

Paul[_28_] October 24th 18 09:39 AM

Intel CPU prices going up?
 
Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 10/23/2018 1:45 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
You're obviously making guesses. Demand hasn't gone up despite all the
news pundits saying otherwise. "Apparently" is another guess.


We all are, as Intel obviously won't tell us. Anything you or I say will
just be guesses. No point in mentioning it even, as it's assumed. But we
all have our years of experience to draw on, and our guesses can be
somewhat accurate.

Intel is having to produce six- and eight-core processors when it's used
to producing only quad-core maximum. It produced a lot of good dies of
quad-core, but a hex- or octa-core will have larger dies, and that would
make the number of good dies lower. A die that is twice as big will
result in an overall 75%-80% decrease in the number dies per wafer. That
includes wasted space along the sides of the wafer.

Whereas AMD is just continuing to produce quad-core dies all day long,
and if it wants an octa-core, it just gives you two of them!

Yousuf Khan


I think the Ryzen is a single die with two CCX on it.
So your yield is for an 8 core chips.

https://wccftech.com/amd-zeppelin-so...4-cores-rumor/

Paul

Yousuf Khan[_2_] November 13th 18 09:28 PM

Intel CPU prices going up?
 
On 10/24/2018 4:39 AM, Paul wrote:
I think the Ryzen is a single die with two CCX on it.
So your yield is for an 8 core chips.

https://wccftech.com/amd-zeppelin-so...4-cores-rumor/


Paul


The CCX's are separate dies. That's why AMD is able to produce so many
of them for cheaply. In fact, it's given AMD a real advantage over
Intel, as Intel can't easily produce multi-chip modules yet. It needs a
major design overhaul to achieve that. AMD probably already took the
pain during the Bulldozer years, ironed out all of the necessary steps
to produce MCM modules. Even though Bulldozer weren't MCM's, they had a
lot of features similar to MCM's.

Yousuf Khan

Paul[_28_] November 13th 18 11:16 PM

Intel CPU prices going up?
 
Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 10/24/2018 4:39 AM, Paul wrote:
I think the Ryzen is a single die with two CCX on it.
So your yield is for an 8 core chips.

https://wccftech.com/amd-zeppelin-so...4-cores-rumor/


Paul


The CCX's are separate dies. That's why AMD is able to produce so many
of them for cheaply. In fact, it's given AMD a real advantage over
Intel, as Intel can't easily produce multi-chip modules yet. It needs a
major design overhaul to achieve that. AMD probably already took the
pain during the Bulldozer years, ironed out all of the necessary steps
to produce MCM modules. Even though Bulldozer weren't MCM's, they had a
lot of features similar to MCM's.

Yousuf Khan


Looks like one silicon die to me. There are two IP blocks on it.

http://i.imgur.com/9TIpxDY.jpg

On the mobile part, there is one IP block (4 cores/8 threads)

https://tablet-news.com/wp-content/u...l-page-037.jpg

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11964...nd-updated-zen

"While Ryzen, Threadripper, and EPYC have used the 8-core Zeppelin
building block for their products, the laptop side of the equation
will combine the new high-performance Zen core with the latest Vega
graphics in a single piece of silicon.

Quad-Core with SMT
Vega 10 - 10 CUs (640 SPs)
"

Die shot of the mobile part, with one CCX on the left, GPU on the right.

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/11...52_678x452.jpg

HTH,
Paul

Yousuf Khan[_2_] November 15th 18 08:33 AM

Intel CPU prices going up?
 
On 11/13/2018 6:16 PM, Paul wrote:
Looks like one silicon die to me. There are two IP blocks on it.

http://i.imgur.com/9TIpxDY.jpg

On the mobile part, there is one IP block (4 cores/8 threads)

https://tablet-news.com/wp-content/u...l-page-037.jpg


https://www.anandtech.com/show/11964...nd-updated-zen


"While Ryzen, Threadripper, and EPYC have used the 8-core Zeppelin
building block for their products, the laptop side of the equation
will combine the new high-performance Zen core with the latest Vega
graphics in a single piece of silicon.

Quad-Core with SMT
Vega 10 - 10 CUs (640 SPs)
"

Die shot of the mobile part, with one CCX on the left, GPU on the right.

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/11...52_678x452.jpg


HTH,
Paul


The Ryzens use 4-core CCX's, while the Threadrippers use 8-core CCX's.
Here's the Ryzen block diagram:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment..._44_33_and_22/

Paul[_28_] November 15th 18 09:53 AM

Intel CPU prices going up?
 
Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 11/13/2018 6:16 PM, Paul wrote:
Looks like one silicon die to me. There are two IP blocks on it.

http://i.imgur.com/9TIpxDY.jpg

On the mobile part, there is one IP block (4 cores/8 threads)

https://tablet-news.com/wp-content/u...l-page-037.jpg


https://www.anandtech.com/show/11964...nd-updated-zen


"While Ryzen, Threadripper, and EPYC have used the 8-core Zeppelin
building block for their products, the laptop side of the equation
will combine the new high-performance Zen core with the latest Vega
graphics in a single piece of silicon.

Quad-Core with SMT
Vega 10 - 10 CUs (640 SPs)
"

Die shot of the mobile part, with one CCX on the left, GPU on the right.

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/11...52_678x452.jpg


HTH,
Paul


The Ryzens use 4-core CCX's, while the Threadrippers use 8-core CCX's.
Here's the Ryzen block diagram:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment..._44_33_and_22/


And that's exactly what my quotes above, provide.

The Ryzen product (APU flavor), uses a new die,
with a 4 core CCX and a GPU. The "IP" (Intellectual Property)
block size is a 4 core CCX, which is getting reused.

In the Zeppelin core, two 4 core CCX IP blocks
are combined on one 8 core die. The 8 core die
is replicated as four dice in an Epyc. This means
they're manufacturing 8 core parts on the silicon
wafer.

There is a grand total of two die designs.

Ryzen as APU 4 core CCX + GPU on a single die --- A unique
design
Ryzen desktop two 4 core CCX Zepplin in a single die \
\
Threadripper two dice of the "Ryzen desktop" persuasion \ The idea
two dummy dice (replaced by working dice \ is to
in the next generation, dice don't have RAM / reuse
connected). / the same
Epyc four dice of the "Ryzen desktop" persuasion / silicon die

So they are required to yield 8 core component parts. To make
some of the more profitable packaged products.

This diagram is an eight core silicon die. The red line, is an
architectural shortcoming, not a "snip point".

https://external-preview.redd.it/ynh...f106cb9 dae33

The die is one continuous thing.

http://i.imgur.com/le2atYb.jpg

Paul


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