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Codemutant
June 25th 04, 10:52 AM
I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
computer.
The system is most propably going to be used to run a linux version
and do
some serious programming. May be a little bit of games, movies.. and
multimedia
can also be thoght of in the Things-to-do list. I was thinking of
buying
an AMD64 3ghz based computer. But my friends are advicing me to go for
an Intel
pentium 2.8 HT system. They argue that AMD is unreliable and
overheating of the cpu is
very common. They said that for saving money i must not compramise on
reliablity and performance in the long run.
What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?

Ben Pope
June 25th 04, 01:00 PM
Codemutant wrote:
> I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
> computer.
> The system is most propably going to be used to run a linux version
> and do some serious programming. May be a little bit of games,
> movies.. and multimedia can also be thoght of in the Things-to-do
> list. I was thinking of buying an AMD64 3ghz based computer
> But my friends are advicing me to go for an Intel pentium 2.8 HT
> system. They argue that AMD is unreliable and overheating of the
> cpu is very common. They said that for saving money i must not
> compramise on reliablity and performance in the long run.
> What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?

Your friends are ill-advised.

The power consumption of an AMD64 is WAY below that of an Intel, and thus it
is cooler.

Overheating IS NOT a common problem when the heatsink is installed the
correct way round.

Compilation on an AMD is quicker than on Intel.

AMD64 will stomp all over the 2.8 in the tasks you have described. Just
check some benchmarks.

Reliability was a problem attributed to the chipsets years ago. AMD
chipsets have been fast and reliable for years.

In saving money you will not be compromising on reliability or performance.

Buy the AMD, you will not be disappointed.

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

rstlne
June 25th 04, 01:20 PM
"Codemutant" > wrote in message
om...
> I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
> computer.
> The system is most propably going to be used to run a linux version
> and do
> some serious programming. May be a little bit of games, movies.. and
> multimedia
> can also be thoght of in the Things-to-do list. I was thinking of
> buying
> an AMD64 3ghz based computer. But my friends are advicing me to go for
> an Intel
> pentium 2.8 HT system. They argue that AMD is unreliable and
> overheating of the cpu is
> very common. They said that for saving money i must not compramise on
> reliablity and performance in the long run.
> What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?

Yes..
Many people feel this way.
I say that they must have never (at least not within the past 7 or so years)
used an AMD processor based system.
Most of the problems that there are turn out to be chipset problems. (It's
a good chance that the amd 915 and 925 chipset boards are going to be
recalled too) (those are intel btw)

Thermally speaking
Tell your friends that the P4's use more Power (they'll probably just say
that's cause the chips are faster) but Power translates into heat..

I am holding off on buying a new system right now JUST BECAUSE I want to
move to pci express & ddr2 & btx (if that happens) all at once rather than
buying tech today that might not work tomorrow.

At the end of the day you'll need to do some reviews and find out what's
going to be best for you.. the p4 ht 2.8 is good and should meet your
requirements. you can get ddr2 (as long as it's faster than pc3200 then
you'll be better off) and pci express with the current intel boards so that
might be more important to you than the x86-64 processor.

James
June 25th 04, 03:18 PM
you can't go wrong either way. I've built about 7 athlon XP machines. None
of them have overheated, or had ANY problems for that matter. If I had a
choice between a p4 2.8 or a Athlon 64, I would go for the Athlon...its
cheaper, its cooler, and got cool and quiet, so the system will run quieter,
and it supports 64bit, not just 32 like Intel. Chances are though, the
average user really won't notice much of a difference between the 2 if your
working in a 32 bit envirnment anyways. There are 64 bit versions of linux
that you could run on the AMD, but not the Intel.
Enjoy your new system, whatever it ends up being.

"Codemutant" > wrote in message
om...
> I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
> computer.
> The system is most propably going to be used to run a linux version
> and do
> some serious programming. May be a little bit of games, movies.. and
> multimedia
> can also be thoght of in the Things-to-do list. I was thinking of
> buying
> an AMD64 3ghz based computer. But my friends are advicing me to go for
> an Intel
> pentium 2.8 HT system. They argue that AMD is unreliable and
> overheating of the cpu is
> very common. They said that for saving money i must not compramise on
> reliablity and performance in the long run.
> What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?

Hellmark
June 25th 04, 04:55 PM
Codemutant's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his
body were:

> I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
> computer. The system is most propably going to be used to run linux
> and do some serious programming. May be a little bit of games, movies and
> multimedia can also be thoght of in the Things-to-do list. I was
> thinking of buying an AMD64 3ghz based computer. But my friends are
> advicing me to go for an Intel pentium 2.8 HT system. They argue that
> AMD is unreliable and overheating of the cpu is very common. They said
> that for saving money i must not compramise on reliablity and
> performance in the long run.
> What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?

Tell your friends they are full of ****. I have been running AMD chips for
years, and have had zero problems. While it is true that AMD's run hotter,
its very easy to keep them cool. It means just add a case fan or two, and
you're good to go (most Intel systems rely on only a CPU fan and the fan
in the powersupply, which I dont like running on any system, no matter who
makes it). As far as over heating, would they care to explain my AMD64
2800+ sitting right here at a cool 102 Fahrenheit (and the hottest it's
ever been was 116 degrees under a full continuous workload), while I had a
P2 450 overheat, and destroy the motherboard, video card, DVD drive,
CD-RW, and sound card? I've yet to have a AMD chip overheat. They are
just Intel Fanboys giving you some FUD.

Don McCarter
June 25th 04, 10:25 PM
I have always used Intel CPU's until now.
I built an AMD64 3200 machine and for
a computer hobbyist like me it is great.
It is much quieter that my son's Intel P4 3.0.
I am running Fedore Core 2 64bit, WindowsXP64(free to download and use for
one year) and WindowsXp pro.
All of the above OS's work fine. In some cases the 64Bit is
faster.





"Ed" > wrote in message
...
> On 25 Jun 2004 02:52:20 -0700, (Codemutant)
> wrote:
>
> >I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
> >computer.
> >The system is most propably going to be used to run a linux version
> >and do
> >some serious programming. May be a little bit of games, movies.. and
> >multimedia
> >can also be thoght of in the Things-to-do list. I was thinking of
> >buying
> >an AMD64 3ghz based computer. But my friends are advicing me to go for
> >an Intel
> >pentium 2.8 HT system. They argue that AMD is unreliable and
> >overheating of the cpu is
> >very common. They said that for saving money i must not compramise on
> >reliablity and performance in the long run.
> > What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?
>
>
> Any of those friends ever use an AMD 64 system (built correctly)? cause
> it sounds to me like they don't have a clue!
>
> I don't own a AMD64 but I have built 3 of them and get to use them
> on/off, 2 words - "Kick Ass"
>
> Ed
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 6/23/2004

KMS
June 26th 04, 01:53 AM
I like to advise go with AMD 64 system.

I have built three of those: One to my friend, one to my relative and now
one to myself. We all are very happy with them.

Just a week ago I built my new A64 3500+ based system. I'm glad I did...
even thought it was not cheap! I could have built a very decent Intel
Pentium based system cheaper... but I wanted AMD64 system with Socket939
based motherboard.

With this system I have enabled the Cool'n' Quiet, the temperatures (System
and CPU) are VERY low in normal usage. When fully loaded for long time the
CPU temperatures get to "normal" range around 55C, but that's about 1-5% of
the time my computer is on. I'd like to draw an analogy to a car: How often
do you drive your car with gas pedal floored? Yes... not very often and
absolutely not all the time. It just seems like with the old technology
(Read: Intel) the "car" speed is adjusted by applying brakes, the gas is
always floored! But with AMD we have the gas pedal we can press more or less
depending on how fast the "car" needs to move. Smart? Yes, I think so too...
I'm sure Intel will follow AMD with this (once again... ; ), and they will
implement a dynamic power saving system with their Pentium "X" lines. Maybe
once their desktop CPU's are based on Pentium M core soon (Yes, P4 will be
dead not too much in the future...) they will have their version of
Cool'n'Quiet for desktop processors.

Instability? What is that? I have not noticed such a thing for a long time
in any properly configured system. Be it Intel or AMD.



"Codemutant" > wrote in message
om...
> I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
> computer.
> The system is most propably going to be used to run a linux version
> and do
> some serious programming. May be a little bit of games, movies.. and
> multimedia
> can also be thoght of in the Things-to-do list. I was thinking of
> buying
> an AMD64 3ghz based computer. But my friends are advicing me to go for
> an Intel
> pentium 2.8 HT system. They argue that AMD is unreliable and
> overheating of the cpu is
> very common. They said that for saving money i must not compramise on
> reliablity and performance in the long run.
> What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?

Codemutant
June 26th 04, 04:25 AM
"Don McCarter" > wrote in message >...
> I have always used Intel CPU's until now.
> I built an AMD64 3200 machine and for
> a computer hobbyist like me it is great.
> It is much quieter that my son's Intel P4 3.0.
> I am running Fedore Core 2 64bit, WindowsXP64(free to download and use for
> one year) and WindowsXp pro.
> All of the above OS's work fine. In some cases the 64Bit is
> faster.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Ed" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 25 Jun 2004 02:52:20 -0700, (Codemutant)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
> > >computer.
> > >The system is most propably going to be used to run a linux version
> > >and do
> > >some serious programming. May be a little bit of games, movies.. and
> > >multimedia
> > >can also be thoght of in the Things-to-do list. I was thinking of
> > >buying
> > >an AMD64 3ghz based computer. But my friends are advicing me to go for
> > >an Intel
> > >pentium 2.8 HT system. They argue that AMD is unreliable and
> > >overheating of the cpu is
> > >very common. They said that for saving money i must not compramise on
> > >reliablity and performance in the long run.
> > > What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?
> >
> >
> > Any of those friends ever use an AMD 64 system (built correctly)? cause
> > it sounds to me like they don't have a clue!
> >
> > I don't own a AMD64 but I have built 3 of them and get to use them
> > on/off, 2 words - "Kick Ass"
> >
> > Ed
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 6/23/2004




The arguement i lose when debating with intelfans.. is "why then amd
is cheaper than intel?? if the performance is high isnt it cheaper
bcause it uses cheaper components???" ... any suggessions...?
thanx for the replies i got... i finally made up my mind to buy an
amd64 3.0ghz system. I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in
build geforce. Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect
working condition.

Jason Cothran
June 26th 04, 04:36 AM
"Codemutant" > wrote in message
om...
|
|
| The arguement i lose when debating with intelfans.. is "why then amd
| is cheaper than intel?? if the performance is high isnt it cheaper
| bcause it uses cheaper components???" ... any suggessions...?
| thanx for the replies i got... i finally made up my mind to buy an
| amd64 3.0ghz system. I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in
| build geforce. Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect
| working condition.

Howmany AMD commercials do you see, or AMD ads in general? How many Intel
ads do you see? Overhead, and market share. Intel has the uninformed into
thinking their computer must say "Intel inside" to run. Your typical average
buyer has never ever heard of "AMD" or "Athlon". AMB has been and continues
to gain market share as more and more people become educated to the fact
that for most applications, AMD is superior to Intel. As for buying a 3GHz
system, you will have to wait a while ;) . AMD makes systems that smoke
intel 3GHz+ systems, but they do not make one @3GHz themselves yet. No need
when they can smoke an Intel 3.4EE with a 2GHz CPU.

Post Replies Here Please
June 26th 04, 06:04 AM
>>>>> "Hellmark" == Hellmark > writes:

Hellmark> Codemutant's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged
Hellmark> through his body were:

>> I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
>> computer. The system is most propably going to be used to run
>> linux and do some serious programming. May be a little bit of
>> games, movies and multimedia can also be thoght of in the
>> Things-to-do list. I was thinking of buying an AMD64 3ghz based
>> computer. But my friends are advicing me to go for an Intel
>> pentium 2.8 HT system. They argue that AMD is unreliable and
>> overheating of the cpu is very common. They said that for saving
>> money i must not compramise on reliablity and performance in the
>> long run. What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?

Hellmark> Tell your friends they are full of ****. I have been
Hellmark> running AMD chips for years, and have had zero problems.
Hellmark> While it is true that AMD's run hotter, its very easy to
Hellmark> keep them cool. It means just add a case fan or two, and
Hellmark> you're good to go (most Intel systems rely on only a CPU
Hellmark> fan and the fan in the powersupply, which I dont like
Hellmark> running on any system, no matter who makes it). As far as
Hellmark> over heating, would they care to explain my AMD64 2800+
Hellmark> sitting right here at a cool 102 Fahrenheit (and the
Hellmark> hottest it's ever been was 116 degrees under a full
Hellmark> continuous workload), while I had a P2 450 overheat, and
Hellmark> destroy the motherboard, video card, DVD drive, CD-RW, and
Hellmark> sound card? I've yet to have a AMD chip overheat. They are
Hellmark> just Intel Fanboys giving you some FUD.

I would concur with that. All these chips can get very hot and require
properly setup cooling. AMD64 has the edge with gaming benchmarks. P4
still have an edge with video encoding. Either system will be more
than great. Some benchmarks show faster compiling with AMD64.

The question is should you wait or not? That is probably the hardest
question to answer. Both AMD and Intel are coming out with new
chipsets and sockets.

Go to some hardware sites and look around.

Good luck!

Post Replies Here Please
June 26th 04, 06:08 AM
AMD would be out of business if their chips cost the same as intel
chips. Compare the P4 extreme with the FX-53. I wonder who buys the P4
extreme. It is extremely priced ;-)). Now the FX-53 is not cheap
either ;-)).

Later

>>>>> "Jason" == Jason Cothran > writes:

Jason> "Codemutant" > wrote in message
Jason> om...
Jason> |
Jason> |
Jason> | The arguement i lose when debating with intelfans.. is "why
Jason> then amd | is cheaper than intel?? if the performance is high
Jason> isnt it cheaper | bcause it uses cheaper components???" ...
Jason> any suggessions...? | thanx for the replies i got... i finally
Jason> made up my mind to buy an | amd64 3.0ghz system. I am planning
Jason> to use asus motherboard with the in | build geforce. Do tell
Jason> me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect | working
Jason> condition.

Jason> Howmany AMD commercials do you see, or AMD ads in general? How
Jason> many Intel ads do you see? Overhead, and market share. Intel
Jason> has the uninformed into thinking their computer must say
Jason> "Intel inside" to run. Your typical average buyer has never
Jason> ever heard of "AMD" or "Athlon". AMB has been and continues to
Jason> gain market share as more and more people become educated to
Jason> the fact that for most applications, AMD is superior to Intel.
Jason> As for buying a 3GHz system, you will have to wait a while ;)
Jason> . AMD makes systems that smoke intel 3GHz+ systems, but they
Jason> do not make one @3GHz themselves yet. No need when they can
Jason> smoke an Intel 3.4EE with a 2GHz CPU.

Hellmark
June 26th 04, 09:46 PM
Codemutant's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his
body were:
> The arguement i lose when debating with intelfans.. is "why then amd
> is cheaper than intel?? if the performance is high isnt it cheaper
> bcause it uses cheaper components???" ... any suggessions...?
> thanx for the replies i got... i finally made up my mind to buy an
> amd64 3.0ghz system. I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in
> build geforce. Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect
> working condition.

Easy, you pay more for the name brand than the product. Intel has been
popular forever, and everyone, including non computer people, know them,
so they can use that to their leverage and charge more.

Have a good intake and exhaust fan. exhaust in back, intake up front. I
use 2 120mm fans for mine ATM (about to add more)

Frosty the Snow Bunny
June 26th 04, 11:20 PM
"Codemutant" > wrote in message
om...
>I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
> computer.
> The system is most propably going to be used to run a linux version
> and do
> some serious programming. May be a little bit of games, movies.. and
> multimedia
> can also be thoght of in the Things-to-do list. I was thinking of
> buying
> an AMD64 3ghz based computer. But my friends are advicing me to go for
> an Intel
> pentium 2.8 HT system. They argue that AMD is unreliable and
> overheating of the cpu is
> very common. They said that for saving money i must not compramise on
> reliablity and performance in the long run.
> What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?

Forget Intel, unless you have more money than sense. :o)
1. If you want a 32bit system, get an AMD XP mobile 2500+ based, as it is
highly overclockable
2. If you want an inexpensive 64bit system, get an AMD 64 3200+ socket 754
with Nforce3 250 chipset
3. If you want a midranged price 64bit system, get an AMD 64 3500+ socket
939 with Nforce3 Ultra chipset

jones
June 28th 04, 09:20 AM
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:20:27 -0500, "Frosty the Snow Bunny"
> wrote:

>
>"Codemutant" > wrote in message
om...
>>I am intel celeron 333mhz user.., I recently decided to buy a new
>> computer.
>> The system is most propably going to be used to run a linux version
>> and do
>> some serious programming. May be a little bit of games, movies.. and
>> multimedia
>> can also be thoght of in the Things-to-do list. I was thinking of
>> buying
>> an AMD64 3ghz based computer. But my friends are advicing me to go for
>> an Intel
>> pentium 2.8 HT system. They argue that AMD is unreliable and
>> overheating of the cpu is
>> very common. They said that for saving money i must not compramise on
>> reliablity and performance in the long run.
>> What should i buy: an intel based system or an AMD?
>
>Forget Intel, unless you have more money than sense. :o)
>1. If you want a 32bit system, get an AMD XP mobile 2500+ based, as it is
>highly overclockable
>2. If you want an inexpensive 64bit system, get an AMD 64 3200+ socket 754
>with Nforce3 250 chipset
>3. If you want a midranged price 64bit system, get an AMD 64 3500+ socket
>939 with Nforce3 Ultra chipset
>


My vote is for the amd64 with the socket 754 nforce3 250. Best bang
for the buck.

Plus, I just don't see what's so great about the 939 scores, prices,
and availability.

Pseudo Namen
July 18th 04, 06:53 AM
"dano" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (Codemutant) wrote:
>
> > I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in
> > build geforce. Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect
> > working condition.
>
> Tip on asus if you plan to use linux:
> <http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html>
>
> --
> He took a duck in the face at two hundred and fifty knots.

The story doesn't ring true to me. I have owned two ASUS motherboards, one
for the P4, and one for the AMD XP 2600+ Both ran both Mandrake and Redhat
AOK.

XS11E
July 18th 04, 07:24 AM
dano > wrote in news:dano45-
:

> In article >,
> (Codemutant) wrote:
>
>> I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in
>> build geforce. Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect
>> working condition.
>
> Tip on asus if you plan to use linux:
> <http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html>

Pure fiction written by someone with a grudge agains ASUS, see my post
under "Is this true about ASUS".

ASUS supports Linux to the same extent they support any other OS, not
at all.

Ben Pope
July 18th 04, 09:28 AM
dano wrote:
> In article >,
> (Codemutant) wrote:
>
>> I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in
>> build geforce. Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect
>> working condition.
>
> Tip on asus if you plan to use linux:
> <http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html>


....which clearly show that they have no bias away from Linux. The guy
apparently got no help, regardless of whether he said the issue was found
within Linux or Windows.

He's also an extreme rambler, doesn't he just go on and on without really
saying much?

I just did this search and found a possible fix:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=K8V+SE+VPD+network+OR+NIC

First link... as always.

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

Post Replies Here Please
July 18th 04, 01:22 PM
>>>>> "Ben" == Ben Pope > writes:

Ben> dano wrote:
>> In article >,
>> (Codemutant) wrote:
>>
>>> I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in build geforce.
>>> Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect working
>>> condition.
>> Tip on asus if you plan to use linux:
>> <http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html>


Ben> ...which clearly show that they have no bias away from Linux.
Ben> The guy apparently got no help, regardless of whether he said
Ben> the issue was found within Linux or Windows.

Ben> He's also an extreme rambler, doesn't he just go on and on
Ben> without really saying much?

Ben> I just did this search and found a possible fix:
Ben> http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=K8V+SE+VPD+network+OR+NIC

Ben> First link... as always.

Wow! First link. Anyway the did not give support for Windows either. I
guess the author forgot to mention that. Whatever

Thanks

Wes Newell
July 18th 04, 10:01 PM
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 07:22:41 -0500, Post Replies Here Please wrote:

>>>>>> "Ben" == Ben Pope > writes:
>
> Ben> dano wrote:
> >> In article >,
> >> (Codemutant) wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in build geforce.
> >>> Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect working
> >>> condition.
> >> Tip on asus if you plan to use linux:
> >> <http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html>
>
>
> Ben> ...which clearly show that they have no bias away from Linux.
> Ben> The guy apparently got no help, regardless of whether he said
> Ben> the issue was found within Linux or Windows.
>
> Ben> He's also an extreme rambler, doesn't he just go on and on
> Ben> without really saying much?
>
> Ben> I just did this search and found a possible fix:
> Ben> http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=K8V+SE+VPD+network+OR+NIC
>
> Ben> First link... as always.
>
> Wow! First link. Anyway the did not give support for Windows either. I
> guess the author forgot to mention that. Whatever
>
Clearly this just means that Asus could care less about defect. Saying
they don't support Linux was just an easy way for them to avoid the
problem.:-)

But it's not that big of a problem, unless it happens to you I guess.:-)

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Ben Pope
July 18th 04, 10:31 PM
Wes Newell wrote:
> Clearly this just means that Asus could care less about defect.

I assume you mean "couldn't care less".

> Saying they don't support Linux was just an easy way for them to
> avoid the problem.:-)

Indeed.

My Registrar fobbed me off with "there is no process for transferring your
domain". Which was a lie. It's been transferred.

When enquiring the IP address of the DNS servers of my ISP, I was told to
"turn off DNS" (typical MS with misleading network configuration
terminology*). When I told them that turning off DNS would be a bit silly,
and that I was using Linux so the instructions they are reading off of their
screen is worthless to me, they said they didn't support Linux. I said they
didn't need to, they just had to give me the IP address of their DNS
servers! (Like I'd asked, like are provided on their website, but not
knowing the IP address of their website, I was a little stuck as I didn't
have any name resolution!)

*Has anybody tried configuring the firewall built into Window XP? What the
hell is an "input port"? Input to WHAT! Why Microsoft can't just use
"local" and "remote" like everybody else is beyond me.

"Customer Service" is a contradiction in terms for most companies. The
current trend of moving "customer service" depts to India and the like is a
typical example of this. I refuse to deal with a company that has that
attitude (if I can possibly help it) My time is worth more than a few quid
I might save. It's false economy.

> But it's not that big of a problem, unless it happens to you I guess.:-)


Agreed. The point is that Asus are hardly alone in poor customer service...
to single them out as a motherboard manufacturer whose products CANNOT work
with Linux is somewhat misleading.

Rarely have I found customer service of any company to be consistently good.
When average Joe will not buy products that cost a bit more to get better
service, what are the companies to do? Keep spending money on training to
get good service and then go bankrupt and not have any... or reduce costs
(and therefore quality) to compete?

I don't wish to single you out because you are not alone, but as an example
you spent $12 on a 600W PSU (am I right?) So you are Average Joe purchasing
products based on price, not quality. For $12 I know you aren't expecting
great things from it (or any kind of customer service, I would hope), hence
the spare one, and that is the extreme end of the scale, but it stuck in my
mind!

Rant over.

I feel much better. Thanks for listening. :-p

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

Wes Newell
July 19th 04, 05:05 AM
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:31:16 +0100, Ben Pope wrote:

> I don't wish to single you out because you are not alone, but as an
> example you spent $12 on a 600W PSU (am I right?)

Nope, the 600W was $24. 500W $12, and 550W was $15, but the $15 included
shipping.

> So you are Average Joe purchasing products based on price, not quality.

I don't think you could find one person that has worked with me call me
average, but I do try for the best bang for the buck. I don't care about
support for computer hardware as I know it quite well. I also know that if
I pay $100 for a PSU, that turns into $200, including the spare. I also
know that the failure rate of the cheap PSU's aren't that much greater
than ones costing 5-10 times as much. And I also know I wouldn't wait for
a warranrty repair/replacement to get my system back up so the warranty is
basiclly worthless to me. I also know that some of the so called major
brands are the same as ones costing 1/5 or less the pice of the major
brands. Of all the PSU's I used in the last 5 years, they are all still
working except one, and that was my fualt for being lazy when the fan
stopped and instead of opening the draweer for an non conductive stick I
have, I stuck a metal screwdriver in it, and one littlle slip was just a
little to far. Now just think how ****ed I'd have been at myself if that
had been a $100 PSU.:-)

> For $12 I know you aren't expecting great things from it (or any kind of
> customer service, I would hope), hence the spare one, and that is the
> extreme end of the scale, but it stuck in my mind!
>
I've literally built hundreds of PC's for voicemail sytems we sold (and
also maintained). I've seen failures at all ends of the price spectrum and
the high end isn't any better than the low end in general. That includes
MB's, PSU's, CPU's and almost anything to do with with electronics
in desktop PC's. One exception to the low end was when I bought 10 new AT
PSU's for $2 each. They looked like crap and had a 20% failure rate.
Should have stayed with the $5 ones.:-)

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Marshall Law
July 19th 04, 08:07 AM
XS11E wrote:

> dano > wrote in news:dano45-
> :
>
>> In article >,
>> (Codemutant) wrote:
>>
>>> I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in
>>> build geforce. Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect
>>> working condition.
>>
>> Tip on asus if you plan to use linux:
>> <http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html>
>
> Pure fiction written by someone with a grudge agains ASUS, see my post
> under "Is this true about ASUS".
>
> ASUS supports Linux to the same extent they support any other OS, not
> at all.

The story is poorly laid out, of that there is no contest. Whether it is
fiction or not is another issue. It is also no contest that Asus is
benefitting from a Microsoft relantionship.

Personally, since this claim came out, I'm watching Asus more carefully but
I have not yet decided what the truth is.

Pseudo Namen
July 19th 04, 08:32 AM
"Marshall Law" > wrote in message
...
> XS11E wrote:
>
>> dano > wrote in news:dano45-
>> :
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> (Codemutant) wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in
>>>> build geforce. Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in perfect
>>>> working condition.
>>>
>>> Tip on asus if you plan to use linux:
>>> <http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html>
>>
>> Pure fiction written by someone with a grudge agains ASUS, see my post
>> under "Is this true about ASUS".
>>
>> ASUS supports Linux to the same extent they support any other OS, not
>> at all.
>
> The story is poorly laid out, of that there is no contest. Whether it is
> fiction or not is another issue. It is also no contest that Asus is
> benefitting from a Microsoft relantionship.
>
> Personally, since this claim came out, I'm watching Asus more carefully
> but
> I have not yet decided what the truth is.

If you were in business, wouldn't you choose the Lion's share over a meager
share? ASUS is in business to make money. Linux is for the most part a GNU
based OS, which is of course FREE. However, I have never heard of any ASUS
motherboard that couldn't run Linux, at least not the most popular versions
such as Mandrake or Redhat. There are many versions of Linux out there, and
there may be some that won't run well on Gigabyte, or Supermicro, or maybe
MSI???

The whole thing is based on some whiner who wants ASUS to write drivers for
an OS that is not only fringe, but has many distro's. Microsoft has
basically 4 distro's they support. Windows 9x/ME (one and the same
basically), Windows 2000, and Windows XP, Windows 2003 Server editions.

My motherboard brand is Chaintech. While it comes with Windows Drivers on
the CD, it doesn't come with Linux drivers. Does this mean they are
anti-Linux? I don't think so. Over 90% of PC's run Windows. Therefore, it
makes since for them to include drivers for Windows on it. But, I can get
drivers for my motherboard from NVIDIA, the maker of the chipset that is
used on my motherboard. NVIDIA also has Linux drivers too for this chipset.

Linux is not, I repeat NOT a major OS in the world, no matter how much you
want it to be. Get over it. Linux is a fringe OS, just as OS X is a fringe
OS. Which OS is better? That is for the consumer to decide. I like to use
both Mandrake & Windows. I would use Mandrake 10 64bit right now in
conjunction with Windows XP if Mandrake would support Mandrake 10 64bit, but
alas.... they choose not to. So for now, I am only running Windows XP Pro
until I can get another HD to run Mandrake 10.x on. :o) (my 80gig HD is
much too small for running both XP and Mandrake. I have way too many games
and apps, and movies for that)

Ok, I digressed... LOL But you look on any CD that comes with the latest
motherboards, (motherboards made in the last year) and tell me which one has
native Linux drivers on it? Linux drivers, as well as Linux apps, are for
the most part written by users, not companies.

I hope this cleared this matter up.

XS11E
July 19th 04, 05:01 PM
"Pseudo Namen" > wrote in
:

>
> "Marshall Law" > wrote in message
> ...
>> XS11E wrote:
>>
>>> dano > wrote in news:dano45-
>>> :
>>>
>>>> In article >,
>>>> (Codemutant) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am planning to use asus motherboard with the in
>>>>> build geforce. Do tell me tips to keep my amd cooler and in
>>>>> perfect working condition.
>>>>
>>>> Tip on asus if you plan to use linux:
>>>> <http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html>
>>>
>>> Pure fiction written by someone with a grudge agains ASUS, see
>>> my post under "Is this true about ASUS".
>>>
>>> ASUS supports Linux to the same extent they support any other
>>> OS, not at all.
>>
>> The story is poorly laid out, of that there is no contest.
>> Whether it is fiction or not is another issue. It is also no
>> contest that Asus is benefitting from a Microsoft relantionship.
>>
>> Personally, since this claim came out, I'm watching Asus more
>> carefully but I have not yet decided what the truth is.
>
> If you were in business, wouldn't you choose the Lion's share over
> a meager share? ASUS is in business to make money. Linux is for
> the most part a GNU based OS, which is of course FREE. However,
> I have never heard of any ASUS motherboard that couldn't run
> Linux, at least not the most popular versions such as Mandrake or
> Redhat. There are many versions of Linux out there, and there may
> be some that won't run well on Gigabyte, or Supermicro, or maybe
> MSI???
>
> The whole thing is based on some whiner who wants ASUS to write
> drivers for an OS that is not only fringe, but has many distro's.
> Microsoft has basically 4 distro's they support. Windows 9x/ME
> (one and the same basically), Windows 2000, and Windows XP,
> Windows 2003 Server editions.

Now, let's be perfectly fair here, ASUS does NOT write drivers for ANY
OS. When I bought my ASUS motherboard it came with a CD full of
drivers written by the manufacturers of the devices on the motherboard
and provided to ASUS by those companies, NONE of the drivers were
written by ASUS.

If the open source community wanted to provide drivers for those
devices they have two choices, send them to ASUS and have ASUS make a
Linux driver CD or do as always, include the drivers in the distro.
Either way works fine but if the drivers are included in the distro
it's possible to miss one.

Having said that, let me point out that my ASUS K8V SE Deluxe is an
AMD64 motherboard and it uses some uncommon hardware for sound and for
the LAN. The Mandrake 64 bit edition supports this MB fully and
completely, the Mandrake 10.0 32 bit distro does not. It appears that
Mandrake (maybe others?) has tailored the 64bit distro to available
64bit motherboards and that works for me! It's MUCH easier and faster
to install Mandrake and have everything work than it is to install
Windows XP and have NOTHING work until I insert the provided CD and
install sound, LAN and chipset drivers.

> My motherboard brand is Chaintech. While it comes with Windows
> Drivers on the CD, it doesn't come with Linux drivers. Does this
> mean they are anti-Linux? I don't think so. Over 90% of PC's run
> Windows. Therefore, it makes since for them to include drivers for
> Windows on it. But, I can get drivers for my motherboard from
> NVIDIA, the maker of the chipset that is used on my motherboard.
> NVIDIA also has Linux drivers too for this chipset.

And I'll bet all or most of the needed drivers are included in the
distro if you're running the latest version?

XS11E
July 19th 04, 05:04 PM
Post Replies Here Please > wrote in
:

> Wow! First link. Anyway the did not give support for Windows
> either. I guess the author forgot to mention that. Whatever

The error does not occur in Windows (neither does it occur in Linux on
my ASUS K8V SE Deluxe MB?).

Wes Newell
July 19th 04, 09:44 PM
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:04:17 -0700, XS11E wrote:

> Post Replies Here Please > wrote in
> :
>
>> Wow! First link. Anyway the did not give support for Windows
>> either. I guess the author forgot to mention that. Whatever
>
> The error does not occur in Windows (neither does it occur in Linux on
> my ASUS K8V SE Deluxe MB?).

Sure it does. You just don't see it because the driver takes care of the
problem. If I buy a new car and there's a hole in the spare tire nothing
will be affected until I try and use it. The Linux driver tried to use it,
it failed, they wrote aroundit. Problem still there, just not visible.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm