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Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 19th 04, 10:12 PM
I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave Master
case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the PSU is a 480W
Tagan.

The rest of the spec is as follows: -

1GB RAM
3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
9800XT 256MB
Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
Plextor 708A
Samsung combi


I have a *serious* issue with overheating - and I do mean *SERIOUS*. With
the side panel on, it *IDLES* at between 60-65C (140-149F) and once, when
I was doing nothing more than designing a brochure in Publisher, it hit 70C
(167F) and locked up. I have moved all obstructions from around the HSF and
made sure everything is dust free (it's only a day old!) Is there a fault
somewhere? I was lead to believe that the motherboard had smart temperature
control - well 60-65 at idle tells me either it doesn't or it isn't working.
Is there a setting I've overlooked in the BIOS (I didn't build it)? I don't
have much spare cash to spend on any more cooling (and there isn't any room
in the case for any more fans anyway!)

I'm running it with the side off at the moment and it's stabilised at 45C
(113F) - but I don't want to have to do that forever! I'm hoping for an
idle temperature (with the side on) of around 35-45C (95-113F) and 50-55C
(122-131F) under load. Achievable? I don't think it's asking *too* much, do
you?!

I've RTFM and it's not exactly explicit!

How do I achieve what I consider to be the optimum running temperature?! I
will call the bloke who built it on Monday, but I thought I'd ask here
first - I know that MBM isn't known for its accuracy but, on this occasion,
it's spot on (I've checked it with the BIOS).

Can someone offer me some cooling solutions that won't empty my bank
account?!

Thanks

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 19th 04, 10:25 PM
Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
> I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave
> Master case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the
> PSU is a 480W Tagan.
>
> The rest of the spec is as follows: -
>
> 1GB RAM
> 3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
> 9800XT 256MB
> Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
> Plextor 708A
> Samsung combi
>
>
> I have a *serious* issue with overheating - and I do mean *SERIOUS*.
> With the side panel on, it *IDLES* at between 60-65C (140-149F) and
> once, when I was doing nothing more than designing a brochure in
> Publisher, it hit 70C (167F) and locked up. I have moved all
> obstructions from around the HSF and made sure everything is dust
> free (it's only a day old!) Is there a fault somewhere? I was lead to
> believe that the motherboard had smart temperature control - well
> 60-65 at idle tells me either it doesn't or it isn't working. Is
> there a setting I've overlooked in the BIOS (I didn't build it)? I
> don't have much spare cash to spend on any more cooling (and there
> isn't any room in the case for any more fans anyway!)
>
> I'm running it with the side off at the moment and it's stabilised at
> 45C (113F) - but I don't want to have to do that forever! I'm
> hoping for an idle temperature (with the side on) of around 35-45C
> (95-113F) and 50-55C (122-131F) under load. Achievable? I don't
> think it's asking *too* much, do you?!
>
> I've RTFM and it's not exactly explicit!
>
> How do I achieve what I consider to be the optimum running
> temperature?! I will call the bloke who built it on Monday, but I
> thought I'd ask here first - I know that MBM isn't known for its
> accuracy but, on this occasion, it's spot on (I've checked it with
> the BIOS).
>
> Can someone offer me some cooling solutions that won't empty my bank
> account?!
>
> Thanks

UPDATE: - Q-Fan /was/ disabled, but enabling it doesn't make one iota of
difference. I have put the side back on and I am watching the temperature
climb steadily (we're up to 56C (132F) now. HELP!!

Chris Turner
June 19th 04, 10:48 PM
"Miss Perspicacia Tick" > wrote in message
...
> Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
> > I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave
> > Master case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the
> > PSU is a 480W Tagan.
> >
> > The rest of the spec is as follows: -
> >
> > 1GB RAM
> > 3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
> > 9800XT 256MB
> > Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
> > Plextor 708A
> > Samsung combi
> >
> >
> > I have a *serious* issue with overheating - and I do mean *SERIOUS*.
> > With the side panel on, it *IDLES* at between 60-65C (140-149F) and
> > once, when I was doing nothing more than designing a brochure in
> > Publisher, it hit 70C (167F) and locked up. I have moved all
> > obstructions from around the HSF and made sure everything is dust
> > free (it's only a day old!) Is there a fault somewhere? I was lead to
> > believe that the motherboard had smart temperature control - well
> > 60-65 at idle tells me either it doesn't or it isn't working. Is
> > there a setting I've overlooked in the BIOS (I didn't build it)? I
> > don't have much spare cash to spend on any more cooling (and there
> > isn't any room in the case for any more fans anyway!)
> >
> > I'm running it with the side off at the moment and it's stabilised at
> > 45C (113F) - but I don't want to have to do that forever! I'm
> > hoping for an idle temperature (with the side on) of around 35-45C
> > (95-113F) and 50-55C (122-131F) under load. Achievable? I don't
> > think it's asking *too* much, do you?!
> >
> > I've RTFM and it's not exactly explicit!
> >
> > How do I achieve what I consider to be the optimum running
> > temperature?! I will call the bloke who built it on Monday, but I
> > thought I'd ask here first - I know that MBM isn't known for its
> > accuracy but, on this occasion, it's spot on (I've checked it with
> > the BIOS).
> >
> > Can someone offer me some cooling solutions that won't empty my bank
> > account?!
> >
> > Thanks
>
> UPDATE: - Q-Fan /was/ disabled, but enabling it doesn't make one iota of
> difference. I have put the side back on and I am watching the temperature
> climb steadily (we're up to 56C (132F) now. HELP!!
>
>
disable q-fan - select auto/normal mode not turbo - I have same set up and
had sim probs - if turbo is on voltage crept up quite high and temps were 60
+. The cpu does run quite hot and should go above 70c.

Chris Turner
June 19th 04, 10:53 PM
sri - should NOT be run over 70c!!!

"Chris Turner" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Miss Perspicacia Tick" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
> > > I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave
> > > Master case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the
> > > PSU is a 480W Tagan.
> > >
> > > The rest of the spec is as follows: -
> > >
> > > 1GB RAM
> > > 3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
> > > 9800XT 256MB
> > > Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
> > > Plextor 708A
> > > Samsung combi
> > >
> > >
> > > I have a *serious* issue with overheating - and I do mean *SERIOUS*.
> > > With the side panel on, it *IDLES* at between 60-65C (140-149F) and
> > > once, when I was doing nothing more than designing a brochure in
> > > Publisher, it hit 70C (167F) and locked up. I have moved all
> > > obstructions from around the HSF and made sure everything is dust
> > > free (it's only a day old!) Is there a fault somewhere? I was lead to
> > > believe that the motherboard had smart temperature control - well
> > > 60-65 at idle tells me either it doesn't or it isn't working. Is
> > > there a setting I've overlooked in the BIOS (I didn't build it)? I
> > > don't have much spare cash to spend on any more cooling (and there
> > > isn't any room in the case for any more fans anyway!)
> > >
> > > I'm running it with the side off at the moment and it's stabilised at
> > > 45C (113F) - but I don't want to have to do that forever! I'm
> > > hoping for an idle temperature (with the side on) of around 35-45C
> > > (95-113F) and 50-55C (122-131F) under load. Achievable? I don't
> > > think it's asking *too* much, do you?!
> > >
> > > I've RTFM and it's not exactly explicit!
> > >
> > > How do I achieve what I consider to be the optimum running
> > > temperature?! I will call the bloke who built it on Monday, but I
> > > thought I'd ask here first - I know that MBM isn't known for its
> > > accuracy but, on this occasion, it's spot on (I've checked it with
> > > the BIOS).
> > >
> > > Can someone offer me some cooling solutions that won't empty my bank
> > > account?!
> > >
> > > Thanks
> >
> > UPDATE: - Q-Fan /was/ disabled, but enabling it doesn't make one iota of
> > difference. I have put the side back on and I am watching the
temperature
> > climb steadily (we're up to 56C (132F) now. HELP!!
> >
> >
> disable q-fan - select auto/normal mode not turbo - I have same set up and
> had sim probs - if turbo is on voltage crept up quite high and temps were
60
> +. The cpu does run quite hot and should go above 70c.
>
>

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 19th 04, 11:26 PM
Chris Turner wrote:
> sri - should NOT be run over 70c!!!

It locked up in Publisher at 70 - it has hit 80 twice. I'm almost too
scared to use it. I have the side off now and it's 55.

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 19th 04, 11:45 PM
Chris Turner wrote:
> "Miss Perspicacia Tick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>>> I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave
>>> Master case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the
>>> PSU is a 480W Tagan.
>>>
>>> The rest of the spec is as follows: -
>>>
>>> 1GB RAM
>>> 3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
>>> 9800XT 256MB
>>> Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
>>> Plextor 708A
>>> Samsung combi
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a *serious* issue with overheating - and I do mean *SERIOUS*.
>>> With the side panel on, it *IDLES* at between 60-65C (140-149F)
>>> and once, when I was doing nothing more than designing a brochure in
>>> Publisher, it hit 70C (167F) and locked up. I have moved all
>>> obstructions from around the HSF and made sure everything is dust
>>> free (it's only a day old!) Is there a fault somewhere? I was lead
>>> to believe that the motherboard had smart temperature control - well
>>> 60-65 at idle tells me either it doesn't or it isn't working. Is
>>> there a setting I've overlooked in the BIOS (I didn't build it)? I
>>> don't have much spare cash to spend on any more cooling (and there
>>> isn't any room in the case for any more fans anyway!)
>>>
>>> I'm running it with the side off at the moment and it's stabilised
>>> at 45C (113F) - but I don't want to have to do that forever! I'm
>>> hoping for an idle temperature (with the side on) of around 35-45C
>>> (95-113F) and 50-55C (122-131F) under load. Achievable? I don't
>>> think it's asking *too* much, do you?!
>>>
>>> I've RTFM and it's not exactly explicit!
>>>
>>> How do I achieve what I consider to be the optimum running
>>> temperature?! I will call the bloke who built it on Monday, but I
>>> thought I'd ask here first - I know that MBM isn't known for its
>>> accuracy but, on this occasion, it's spot on (I've checked it with
>>> the BIOS).
>>>
>>> Can someone offer me some cooling solutions that won't empty my bank
>>> account?!
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>> UPDATE: - Q-Fan /was/ disabled, but enabling it doesn't make one
>> iota of difference. I have put the side back on and I am watching
>> the temperature climb steadily (we're up to 56C (132F) now. HELP!!
>>
>>
> disable q-fan - select auto/normal mode not turbo - I have same set
> up and had sim probs - if turbo is on voltage crept up quite high and
> temps were 60 +. The cpu does run quite hot and should go above 70c.

I don't have anything that states "auto/normal" or "turbo". All I have is
Q-Fan either enabled or disabled. Are you /sure/ you have the same
motherboard? I've put the side back on again and it's hit 75-80 and I was
doing nothing more than typing a letter in Word, so that's practically idle!
! There is something seriously wrong here and I just want to be able to
enjoy this system - 2,000 isn't an insignificant chunk o' change for me,
and I can't use it because I'm petrified I'm going to send the 600 CPU into
meltdown! I don't know what else to do. There is airflow round all sides,
nothing is restricted. Do you have the same chassis? I can't hook up any
more fans because there simply isn't anywhere to put them.

I need suggestions. I want to put the side back on! I don't want to have to
spend any more money, but I will if I have to.

Any suggestions anyone? Please?! Save my sanity! Do you have the same HSF
combo?

kony
June 20th 04, 12:19 AM
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:12:24 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
> wrote:

>I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave Master
>case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the PSU is a 480W
>Tagan.
>
>The rest of the spec is as follows: -
>
>1GB RAM
>3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
>9800XT 256MB
>Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
>Plextor 708A
>Samsung combi

That's a nice case, but it has questionable air intake, especially for the
parts you have in it. Reduce restrictions in air intake as much as
possible, ideally it should never be over 10C higher (at full load) than
with case cover off, and even 10C would be a sub-optimal arrangement but
given the fancy design of the front there may be a limit to how much the
intake can be improved without disfiguring the case.

>
>I have a *serious* issue with overheating - and I do mean *SERIOUS*. With
>the side panel on, it *IDLES* at between 60-65C (140-149F) and once, when
>I was doing nothing more than designing a brochure in Publisher, it hit 70C
>(167F) and locked up. I have moved all obstructions from around the HSF and
>made sure everything is dust free (it's only a day old!) Is there a fault
>somewhere? I was lead to believe that the motherboard had smart temperature
>control - well 60-65 at idle tells me either it doesn't or it isn't working.
>Is there a setting I've overlooked in the BIOS (I didn't build it)? I don't
>have much spare cash to spend on any more cooling (and there isn't any room
>in the case for any more fans anyway!)

Smart temp control can only run fan at max RPM at best. See fan specs
from manufacturer and compare to motherboard RPM reading... if fan is near
it's max RPM there's nothing more the onboard fan controller can do.
Often the onboard controller does drop the voltage slightly, as is
inherant in such designs so a few more RPM might be obtained by powering
it directly from PSU connector, but that isn't much of a gain, may easily
be necessary to use a different fan among the other things I mention.

>
>I'm running it with the side off at the moment and it's stabilised at 45C
>(113F) - but I don't want to have to do that forever! I'm hoping for an
>idle temperature (with the side on) of around 35-45C (95-113F) and 50-55C
>(122-131F) under load. Achievable? I don't think it's asking *too* much, do
>you?!

You want idle that's lower than temp seen with case panel off, so it would
seem necessary to do one of more of the following:

Remove heatsink, inspect base, assess thermal compound, try remounting
'sink... Could be the installer simply used poor compound, too much of it,
etc.

Inspect CPU interface. If not perfectly flat, gain will come from lapping
it, though of course the warranty is void. Often the center, most
important interface region, is lower than the outer edges. If you REALLY
don't want to lap it, and/or it looks flat enough, try applying heatsink
compound only in the middle, not on outer border, and carefully mounting
it with a lot of even pressure. You might remove heatsink then, evaluate
whether compound provided good (but ultra-thin) coverage and alter the
coverage if needed then reinstall.

>How do I achieve what I consider to be the optimum running temperature?! I
>will call the bloke who built it on Monday, but I thought I'd ask here
>first - I know that MBM isn't known for its accuracy but, on this occasion,
>it's spot on (I've checked it with the BIOS).
>
>Can someone offer me some cooling solutions that won't empty my bank
>account?!

To a certain extent, the more the parts cost the more it'll cost to cool
them, relative to same era, technology. You made no mention of ambient
room temps, but if they're over 30C you may have to resort to exotic
cooling else lower the rom temp. There might also be the option of
undervolting the CPU, provided the stability is extensively tested.

A duct on the rear fan or power supply might help reduce recirculation of
heatsink exhaust. Likely you'll have to custom fab one. It is somethint
to consider after increasing intake flow, if the temp is still too high.
Keep in mind that your desire for 35-45 isn't necessary, only to keep
CPU/system stable, which should happen if temps can be maintained at
50-60C, though both the BIOS (and motherboard monitor or other software
temp reports) are dependant on manufacturer's calibration of the temp
sensor, which may be incorrect in itself. Ultimately tests such as Prime
95's torture test might be used, particularly the large in-place FFT test,
and when you find the max stable temp, keep it at least 5C under that.

The easiest solution might be adding a fan to the side panel, perhaps
92-120mm low RPM, but again it may not be reasonable to aim for ~35C temps
unless you want to buy a high-end water cooler.

General Schvantzkoph
June 20th 04, 04:27 AM
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:12:24 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:

> I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave Master
> case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the PSU is a 480W
> Tagan.
>
> The rest of the spec is as follows: -
>
>

How many case fans do you have and how are they oriented? If you have fans
on both sides of the case you want to be blowing air in on one side and
sucking it out on the other. Check to see if you have good airflow through
the case. It also could be as simple as not having enough fans or having
fans that are too weak. You have a lot of very hot components in that box,
you'll need to move a lot of air through it in order to cool everything
adequately.

Wes Newell
June 20th 04, 04:30 AM
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:12:24 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:

> I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave Master
> case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the PSU is a 480W
> Tagan.
>
> The rest of the spec is as follows: -
>
> 1GB RAM
> 3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
> 9800XT 256MB
> Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
> Plextor 708A
> Samsung combi
>
>
> I have a *serious* issue with overheating - and I do mean *SERIOUS*. With
> the side panel on, it *IDLES* at between 60-65C (140-149F) and once, when
>
> I'm running it with the side off at the moment and it's stabilised at
> 45C (113F) - but I don't want to have to do that forever! I'm hoping

The problem (at least one) is obvious from the above 2 lines. Fix your
case cooling first.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Jason Cothran
June 20th 04, 04:33 AM
If you are running cool enough with the sides off and overheating that badly
with the sides on, it is obviously just a case of poor case cooling.

Hellmark
June 20th 04, 06:10 AM
Miss Perspicacia Tick's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged
through his body were:
> Chris Turner wrote:
>>sri - should NOT be run over 70c!!!
> It locked up in Publisher at 70 - it has hit 80 twice. I'm almost too
> scared to use it. I have the side off now and it's 55.

Wow, thats really strange. I was just talking to a friend of mine on how
mines running exceptionally cool. I dont have all my fans in yet (only
have the basic 5 {CPU, PSU, OTES, and 2 120mm's for intake and exhaust},
got 8 more to go), and when I first turn the system on its about 100
degrees for the first couple hours, and then after its been sitting on
consistantly for a while, gets up to 120 degrees.

Ok, here are my tips. 80mm fan atleast for your CPU, go 120 if you can
(mines only a 80 though, but I am debating on switching). Have a good
cooling setup in the PSU (mine ATM only has 1 80mm, but thats because I
am borrowing it till the one I ordered comes in next week, which has 2
80mm's). NEVER have just the PSU and CPU fans (have atleast a good
intake and exhaust fan), alot of people nowadays aint really doin that.
Usual way for that is intake fans up front and down low, and exhaust in
back in the rear. Have qfan disabled, I had it on for about 2 minutes
and it had already shot up 5 degrees with in that time on the CPU, and
10 degrees on everything else.

Also, get more fans. Never can have too many. But then again, I go for
over kill, and I barely have any fans in my system currently (by my
standards) and I can hear it across the house.

--
Hellmark
-If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bull****!

Chris Turner
June 20th 04, 10:18 AM
"Jason Cothran" > wrote in message
...
> If you are running cool enough with the sides off and overheating that
badly
> with the sides on, it is obviously just a case of poor case cooling.
>
>
Whats the ambient temp within the case when powered up....again if thats hot
then the cpu will be that plus more...the turbo setting is in the BIOS - can
not remeber where abouts look later. I spoke with AMD ref this issue -
basically on my rig if turbo was on the VDD shot up to 1.75 volts and
combine that with qfan and all temps rocketed! It sounds though as the
others have pointed out, your case needs more efficient air flow - it's not
expensive to set up more fans. Come back on your room temps etc - if yur
room is 30c then your air cooling efficiency goes down.

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 20th 04, 12:17 PM
Hellmark wrote:
> Miss Perspicacia Tick's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged
> through his body were:
>> Chris Turner wrote:
>>> sri - should NOT be run over 70c!!!
>> It locked up in Publisher at 70 - it has hit 80 twice. I'm almost
>> too scared to use it. I have the side off now and it's 55.
>
> Wow, thats really strange. I was just talking to a friend of mine on
> how mines running exceptionally cool. I dont have all my fans in yet
> (only have the basic 5 {CPU, PSU, OTES, and 2 120mm's for intake and
> exhaust}, got 8 more to go), and when I first turn the system on its
> about 100 degrees for the first couple hours, and then after its been
> sitting on consistantly for a while, gets up to 120 degrees.


> Ok, here are my tips. 80mm fan atleast for your CPU, go 120 if you can
> (mines only a 80 though, but I am debating on switching). Have a good
> cooling setup in the PSU (mine ATM only has 1 80mm, but thats because
> I am borrowing it till the one I ordered comes in next week, which
> has 2 80mm's). NEVER have just the PSU and CPU fans (have atleast a
> good intake and exhaust fan), alot of people nowadays aint really
> doin that. Usual way for that is intake fans up front and down low,
> and exhaust in back in the rear. Have qfan disabled, I had it on for
> about 2 minutes and it had already shot up 5 degrees with in that
> time on the CPU, and 10 degrees on everything else.

OK I will buy a 120 (not that I think there's room), but that means losing
it for a week, and I have work to do! GRR!!

> Also, get more fans. Never can have too many. But then again, I go for
> over kill, and I barely have any fans in my system currently (by my
> standards) and I can hear it across the house.

I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
space for the one exhaust fan!

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 20th 04, 01:36 PM
Wes Newell wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:12:24 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>
>> I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave
>> Master case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the
>> PSU is a 480W Tagan.
>>
>> The rest of the spec is as follows: -
>>
>> 1GB RAM
>> 3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
>> 9800XT 256MB
>> Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
>> Plextor 708A
>> Samsung combi
>>
>>
>> I have a *serious* issue with overheating - and I do mean *SERIOUS*.
>> With the side panel on, it *IDLES* at between 60-65C (140-149F)
>> and once, when
>>
>> I'm running it with the side off at the moment and it's stabilised at
>> 45C (113F) - but I don't want to have to do that forever! I'm
>> hoping
>
> The problem (at least one) is obvious from the above 2 lines. Fix your
> case cooling first.

Well, DUH! I think I could have figured that out myself! THAT'S what I'm
trying to do!

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 20th 04, 01:43 PM
Chris Turner wrote:
> "Jason Cothran" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If you are running cool enough with the sides off and overheating
>> that badly with the sides on, it is obviously just a case of poor
>> case cooling.
>>
>>
> Whats the ambient temp within the case when powered up....again if
> thats hot then the cpu will be that plus more...the turbo setting is
> in the BIOS - can not remeber where abouts look later. I spoke with
> AMD ref this issue - basically on my rig if turbo was on the VDD shot
> up to 1.75 volts and combine that with qfan and all temps rocketed!
> It sounds though as the others have pointed out, your case needs more
> efficient air flow - it's not expensive to set up more fans. Come
> back on your room temps etc - if yur room is 30c then your air
> cooling efficiency goes down.

This is the coolest room in the house. The radiator (which isn't on at the
moment, it's too warm) is on the opposite wall to the desk, and it can't be
more than 21-22C at the warmest. If you're familiar with that case, you'll
know there isn't any room for more fans - unless you can tell me where to
site them! The case temperature with the side off is 28C - on it's
fluctuates between 34 and 35. Do you think a 120mm on the HS would be a
good idea (I'd have to send it back to Ben for that, I can't do it myself).

All advice sought and gratefully received.

Thanks

Worried

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 20th 04, 01:46 PM
General Schvantzkoph wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:12:24 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>
>> I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave
>> Master case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the
>> PSU is a 480W Tagan.
>>
>> The rest of the spec is as follows: -
>>
>>
>
> How many case fans do you have and how are they oriented? If you have
> fans on both sides of the case you want to be blowing air in on one
> side and sucking it out on the other. Check to see if you have good
> airflow through the case. It also could be as simple as not having
> enough fans or having fans that are too weak. You have a lot of very
> hot components in that box, you'll need to move a lot of air through
> it in order to cool everything adequately.

There is only one exhaust fan, and I believe it to be oriented the correct
way (it's part of the case, not something that was screwed on as an extra,
so if it isn't, that's CoolerMaster's fault!) As I keep reiterating, there
isn't anywhere for any more fans to go, oh *WHY* did I let him talk me into
this case?! Maybe I'll just have to pretend it's a 100% Perspex panel - I
was going to mod this when I had more cash (green case fan(s), a purple on
the HS), but I don't feel I can do that now as it would just generate more
heat - especially with the strip lights).

Oh well, guess I don't need to mod it - I'd just like it 20C cooler! That's
not asking much is it?!

Thanks

Worried

rstlne
June 20th 04, 02:02 PM
"Miss Perspicacia Tick" > wrote in message
...
> Chris Turner wrote:
> > "Jason Cothran" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> If you are running cool enough with the sides off and overheating
> >> that badly with the sides on, it is obviously just a case of poor
> >> case cooling.
> >>
> >>
> > Whats the ambient temp within the case when powered up....again if
> > thats hot then the cpu will be that plus more...the turbo setting is
> > in the BIOS - can not remeber where abouts look later. I spoke with
> > AMD ref this issue - basically on my rig if turbo was on the VDD shot
> > up to 1.75 volts and combine that with qfan and all temps rocketed!
> > It sounds though as the others have pointed out, your case needs more
> > efficient air flow - it's not expensive to set up more fans. Come
> > back on your room temps etc - if yur room is 30c then your air
> > cooling efficiency goes down.
>
> This is the coolest room in the house. The radiator (which isn't on at the
> moment, it's too warm) is on the opposite wall to the desk, and it can't
be
> more than 21-22C at the warmest. If you're familiar with that case,
you'll
> know there isn't any room for more fans - unless you can tell me where to
> site them! The case temperature with the side off is 28C - on it's
> fluctuates between 34 and 35. Do you think a 120mm on the HS would be a
> good idea (I'd have to send it back to Ben for that, I can't do it
myself).
>
> All advice sought and gratefully received.
>
> Thanks
>
> Worried

So this is the version with 2 80mm fans in the front, one 80mm fan in the
back, and a top section for another 80mm fan?

Firstly, I wouldnt use the fan in the top, I would keep that block'd off.
Then make sure the other 80mm fans are working correctly..
Front 2 fans Suck air in, Rear fan blows air out.

If that's not helping then you have some other problem somewhere like the
heatsink not installed correctly or somethings damaged.

rstlne
June 20th 04, 02:03 PM
"Miss Perspicacia Tick" > wrote in message
...
> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
> > On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:12:24 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
> >
> >> I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave
> >> Master case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the
> >> PSU is a 480W Tagan.
> >>
> >> The rest of the spec is as follows: -
> >>
> >>
> >
> > How many case fans do you have and how are they oriented? If you have
> > fans on both sides of the case you want to be blowing air in on one
> > side and sucking it out on the other. Check to see if you have good
> > airflow through the case. It also could be as simple as not having
> > enough fans or having fans that are too weak. You have a lot of very
> > hot components in that box, you'll need to move a lot of air through
> > it in order to cool everything adequately.
>
> There is only one exhaust fan, and I believe it to be oriented the correct
> way (it's part of the case, not something that was screwed on as an extra,
> so if it isn't, that's CoolerMaster's fault!) As I keep reiterating, there
> isn't anywhere for any more fans to go, oh *WHY* did I let him talk me
into
> this case?! Maybe I'll just have to pretend it's a 100% Perspex panel - I
> was going to mod this when I had more cash (green case fan(s), a purple on
> the HS), but I don't feel I can do that now as it would just generate more
> heat - especially with the strip lights).
>
> Oh well, guess I don't need to mod it - I'd just like it 20C cooler!
That's
> not asking much is it?!
>
> Thanks
>
> Worried
>


See my other post,
Intake fans can be more important than exaust fans.

Ben Pope
June 20th 04, 02:17 PM
Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
> The case temperature with the side off is 28C - on
> it's fluctuates between 34 and 35. Do you think a 120mm on the HS would
> be a good idea (I'd have to send it back to Ben for that, I can't do it
> myself).


Thats interesting. Case temps rise 6C with the side on, but CPU temps rise
over 20C? Are you sure?

So your CPU temps are over 30C hotter than your case temp?

Just to confirm this:

Under load (say Prim95 Torture test for half an hour), what is your diode
temp, case temp, and room temp?

What about with the side off?

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 20th 04, 03:41 PM
Ben Pope wrote:
> Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>> The case temperature with the side off is 28C - on
>> it's fluctuates between 34 and 35. Do you think a 120mm on the HS
>> would be a good idea (I'd have to send it back to Ben for that, I
>> can't do it myself).
>
>
> Thats interesting. Case temps rise 6C with the side on, but CPU
> temps rise over 20C? Are you sure?

Does the pope **** in the wood? Is the Bear Catholic?! or something...

>
> So your CPU temps are over 30C hotter than your case temp?

Correct.

>
> Just to confirm this:
>
> Under load (say Prim95 Torture test for half an hour), what is your
> diode temp, case temp, and room temp?
>
> What about with the side off?
>
> Ben

I darest not do it, in case I invalidate the warranty. I'll have to ask Ben
if it's safe and if he'll replace anything that melts! There is a 15C
difference between case and CPU now (28 vs 43).

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 20th 04, 04:02 PM
rstlne wrote:
> "Miss Perspicacia Tick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Chris Turner wrote:
>>> "Jason Cothran" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> If you are running cool enough with the sides off and overheating
>>>> that badly with the sides on, it is obviously just a case of poor
>>>> case cooling.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Whats the ambient temp within the case when powered up....again if
>>> thats hot then the cpu will be that plus more...the turbo setting is
>>> in the BIOS - can not remeber where abouts look later. I spoke with
>>> AMD ref this issue - basically on my rig if turbo was on the VDD
>>> shot up to 1.75 volts and combine that with qfan and all temps
>>> rocketed! It sounds though as the others have pointed out, your
>>> case needs more efficient air flow - it's not expensive to set up
>>> more fans. Come back on your room temps etc - if yur room is 30c
>>> then your air cooling efficiency goes down.
>>
>> This is the coolest room in the house. The radiator (which isn't on
>> at the moment, it's too warm) is on the opposite wall to the desk,
>> and it can't be more than 21-22C at the warmest. If you're
>> familiar with that case, you'll know there isn't any room for more
>> fans - unless you can tell me where to site them! The case
>> temperature with the side off is 28C - on it's fluctuates between
>> 34 and 35. Do you think a 120mm on the HS would be a good idea
>> (I'd have to send it back to Ben for that, I can't do it myself).
>>
>> All advice sought and gratefully received.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Worried
>
> So this is the version with 2 80mm fans in the front, one 80mm fan in
> the back, and a top section for another 80mm fan?
>
> Firstly, I wouldnt use the fan in the top, I would keep that block'd
> off. Then make sure the other 80mm fans are working correctly..
> Front 2 fans Suck air in, Rear fan blows air out.
>
> If that's not helping then you have some other problem somewhere like
> the heatsink not installed correctly or somethings damaged.

Just so we're clear - this http://tinyurl.com/2l4vq is the case in
question...There is only ONE case fan at the back - that's it, there isn't
room for any others.

Hellmark
June 20th 04, 04:36 PM
Miss Perspicacia Tick's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged
through his body were:
> OK I will buy a 120 (not that I think there's room), but that means
> losing it for a week, and I have work to do! GRR!!

Losing it for a week? Dont tell me you have someone else repair it?

> I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
> space for the one exhaust fan!

Mod the case.

Shep
June 20th 04, 05:14 PM
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 15:41:03 +0100 As another one bit the dust "Miss
Perspicacia Tick" > wrote :

>Ben Pope wrote:
>> Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>>> The case temperature with the side off is 28C - on
>>> it's fluctuates between 34 and 35. Do you think a 120mm on the HS
>>> would be a good idea (I'd have to send it back to Ben for that, I
>>> can't do it myself).
>>
>>
>> Thats interesting. Case temps rise 6C with the side on, but CPU
>> temps rise over 20C? Are you sure?
>
>Does the pope **** in the wood? Is the Bear Catholic?! or something...
>
>>
>> So your CPU temps are over 30C hotter than your case temp?
>
>Correct.
>
>>
>> Just to confirm this:
>>
>> Under load (say Prim95 Torture test for half an hour), what is your
>> diode temp, case temp, and room temp?
>>
>> What about with the side off?
>>
>> Ben
>
>I darest not do it, in case I invalidate the warranty. I'll have to ask Ben
>if it's safe and if he'll replace anything that melts! There is a 15C
>difference between case and CPU now (28 vs 43).
>

The last time I saw this the HS was orientated the wrong way on the
top of the CPU?
On AMD systems at least there is a lip under the HS that should fit
over the raised part of the CPU well so that the HS sits flush on the
core of the CPU.Also I remove the crappy thermal gum,polish/lap the HS
bottom and use thermal paste.
HTH :)



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
email shepATpartyheld.de
Free songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm

rstlne
June 20th 04, 05:41 PM
> Just so we're clear - this http://tinyurl.com/2l4vq is the case in
> question...There is only ONE case fan at the back - that's it, there isn't
> room for any others.
>

There are 2 more in the front
I am guessing that you dont have them hooked up..

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 20th 04, 05:43 PM
rstlne wrote:
>> Just so we're clear - this http://tinyurl.com/2l4vq is the case in
>> question...There is only ONE case fan at the back - that's it, there
>> isn't room for any others.
>>
>
> There are 2 more in the front
> I am guessing that you dont have them hooked up..

Yep, I see them and they are connected - all they're cooling though are the
HDs (of which there are three). Any other suggestions?

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 20th 04, 05:47 PM
Shep wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 15:41:03 +0100 As another one bit the dust "Miss
> Perspicacia Tick" > wrote :
>
>> Ben Pope wrote:
>>> Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>>>> The case temperature with the side off is 28C - on
>>>> it's fluctuates between 34 and 35. Do you think a 120mm on the HS
>>>> would be a good idea (I'd have to send it back to Ben for that, I
>>>> can't do it myself).
>>>
>>>
>>> Thats interesting. Case temps rise 6C with the side on, but CPU
>>> temps rise over 20C? Are you sure?
>>
>> Does the pope **** in the wood? Is the Bear Catholic?! or
>> something...
>>
>>>
>>> So your CPU temps are over 30C hotter than your case temp?
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>>>
>>> Just to confirm this:
>>>
>>> Under load (say Prim95 Torture test for half an hour), what is your
>>> diode temp, case temp, and room temp?
>>>
>>> What about with the side off?
>>>
>>> Ben
>>
>> I darest not do it, in case I invalidate the warranty. I'll have to
>> ask Ben if it's safe and if he'll replace anything that melts! There
>> is a 15C difference between case and CPU now (28 vs 43).
>>
>
> The last time I saw this the HS was orientated the wrong way on the
> top of the CPU?
> On AMD systems at least there is a lip under the HS that should fit
> over the raised part of the CPU well so that the HS sits flush on the
> core of the CPU.Also I remove the crappy thermal gum,polish/lap the HS
> bottom and use thermal paste.
> HTH :)

I'll have to talk to Ben about it - I don't want to do anything myself in
case (ha ha!) it blows up or melts or something! He won't be too happy and I
really don't like complaining!

tomb
June 20th 04, 06:03 PM
Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
| rstlne wrote:
|| So this is the version with 2 80mm fans in the front, one 80mm fan
|| in the back, and a top section for another 80mm fan?
....
| Just so we're clear - this http://tinyurl.com/2l4vq is the case in
| question...There is only ONE case fan at the back - that's it, there
| isn't room for any others.

From that page, "Specifications" column:

Ventilation Dual 80 x 80 x 25 mm fan attached front panel
One 80 x 80 x 25 mm fan attached back panel (Exhaust)


So that sounds like two fans in the front and one in the back, no?

rstlne
June 20th 04, 06:06 PM
"Miss Perspicacia Tick" > wrote in message
...
> rstlne wrote:
> >> Just so we're clear - this http://tinyurl.com/2l4vq is the case in
> >> question...There is only ONE case fan at the back - that's it, there
> >> isn't room for any others.
> >>
> >
> > There are 2 more in the front
> > I am guessing that you dont have them hooked up..
>
> Yep, I see them and they are connected - all they're cooling though are
the
> HDs (of which there are three). Any other suggestions?
>
>
nope ..
heh

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 20th 04, 06:20 PM
tomb wrote:
> Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>> rstlne wrote:
>>> So this is the version with 2 80mm fans in the front, one 80mm fan
>>> in the back, and a top section for another 80mm fan?
> ...
>> Just so we're clear - this http://tinyurl.com/2l4vq is the case in
>> question...There is only ONE case fan at the back - that's it, there
>> isn't room for any others.
>
> From that page, "Specifications" column:
>
> Ventilation Dual 80 x 80 x 25 mm fan attached front panel
> One 80 x 80 x 25 mm fan attached back panel
> (Exhaust)
>
>
> So that sounds like two fans in the front and one in the back, no?

See my reply to 'rstline'.

kony
June 20th 04, 09:51 PM
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:17:13 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
> wrote:


>> Ok, here are my tips. 80mm fan atleast for your CPU, go 120 if you can
>> (mines only a 80 though, but I am debating on switching). Have a good
>> cooling setup in the PSU (mine ATM only has 1 80mm, but thats because
>> I am borrowing it till the one I ordered comes in next week, which
>> has 2 80mm's). NEVER have just the PSU and CPU fans (have atleast a
>> good intake and exhaust fan), alot of people nowadays aint really
>> doin that. Usual way for that is intake fans up front and down low,
>> and exhaust in back in the rear. Have qfan disabled, I had it on for
>> about 2 minutes and it had already shot up 5 degrees with in that
>> time on the CPU, and 10 degrees on everything else.
>
>OK I will buy a 120 (not that I think there's room), but that means losing
>it for a week, and I have work to do! GRR!!

No, you do not want an 120mm fan for the CPU. It won't even fit, there
are no heatsinks that I'm aware of that can use 120mm, at most it would be
92mm, but even then you would likely need an adapter. 80mm is correct
size for your heatsink, the most you should do is select a different 80mm
fan with higher flow rate, though of course it will be louder.

>
>> Also, get more fans. Never can have too many. But then again, I go for
>> over kill, and I barely have any fans in my system currently (by my
>> standards) and I can hear it across the house.
>
>I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
>space for the one exhaust fan!

Adding a fan to the side panel would require cutting out a new hole.
There it "might" be reasonable to use 120mm, though you shouldn't need
more than the lowest RPM model from any maker, to keep noise low as a
higher RPM 120mm fan can be quite noisey.

kony
June 20th 04, 09:55 PM
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:43:39 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
> wrote:

>rstlne wrote:
>>> Just so we're clear - this http://tinyurl.com/2l4vq is the case in
>>> question...There is only ONE case fan at the back - that's it, there
>>> isn't room for any others.
>>>
>>
>> There are 2 more in the front
>> I am guessing that you dont have them hooked up..
>
>Yep, I see them and they are connected - all they're cooling though are the
>HDs (of which there are three). Any other suggestions?
>

They're not "just" cooling the HDDs though, they are the intake flow for
the whole system, which is why I prevoiusly suggested looking at
increasing that flow rate by reduction of intake impedance. The
alternative is a different, 2nd intake point. Due to design of the case
that 2nd point would be a side panel, and it's the easiest way to go
without havin to disassemble entire system since side panel comes off and
metal shavings from cutting the hole won't be an issue.

kony
June 20th 04, 10:01 PM
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 15:41:03 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
> wrote:


>I darest not do it, in case I invalidate the warranty. I'll have to ask Ben
>if it's safe and if he'll replace anything that melts! There is a 15C
>difference between case and CPU now (28 vs 43).
>

"case" or "system" temp usually isnt' the actual temp of the case air,
rather the temp of a 2nd chip in the system, that chip creating it's own
heat. It is a bit of a misnomer to call it such but the trend persists,
unfortunately, as propagated by the board manufacturers.

Since you don't want to alter anything this thread is only academic, you
need to have Ben take a look at it.

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 20th 04, 10:18 PM
kony wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 15:41:03 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
> > wrote:
>
>
>> I darest not do it, in case I invalidate the warranty. I'll have to
>> ask Ben if it's safe and if he'll replace anything that melts! There
>> is a 15C difference between case and CPU now (28 vs 43).
>>
>
> "case" or "system" temp usually isnt' the actual temp of the case
> air, rather the temp of a 2nd chip in the system, that chip creating
> it's own heat. It is a bit of a misnomer to call it such but the
> trend persists, unfortunately, as propagated by the board
> manufacturers.
>
> Since you don't want to alter anything this thread is only academic,
> you need to have Ben take a look at it.

Dave,

You have to realise that there are two things we women know nothing about -
computers and cars! Yes, it is academic, but I really wanted to know what
the problem could be. All I know idling at 60 and topping at 80 ain't good!

kony
June 20th 04, 10:53 PM
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:18:26 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
> wrote:


>> Since you don't want to alter anything this thread is only academic,
>> you need to have Ben take a look at it.
>
>Dave,
>
>You have to realise that there are two things we women know nothing about -
>computers and cars! Yes, it is academic, but I really wanted to know what
>the problem could be. All I know idling at 60 and topping at 80 ain't good!
>

That is more than many men know.

June 20th 04, 11:08 PM
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:47:03 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
> wrote:

>Shep wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 15:41:03 +0100 As another one bit the dust "Miss
>> Perspicacia Tick" > wrote :

>>> Ben Pope wrote:
>>>> Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>>>>> The case temperature with the side off is 28C - on
>>>>> it's fluctuates between 34 and 35. Do you think a 120mm on the HS
>>>>> would be a good idea (I'd have to send it back to Ben for that, I
>>>>> can't do it myself).

>>>> Thats interesting. Case temps rise 6C with the side on, but CPU
>>>> temps rise over 20C? Are you sure?

>>> Does the pope **** in the wood? Is the Bear Catholic?! or
>>> something...

>>>> So your CPU temps are over 30C hotter than your case temp?

>>> Correct.

>>>> Just to confirm this:

>>>> Under load (say Prim95 Torture test for half an hour), what is your
>>>> diode temp, case temp, and room temp?

>>>> What about with the side off?

>>>> Ben

>>> I darest not do it, in case I invalidate the warranty. I'll have to
>>> ask Ben if it's safe and if he'll replace anything that melts! There
>>> is a 15C difference between case and CPU now (28 vs 43).

>> The last time I saw this the HS was orientated the wrong way on the
>> top of the CPU?
>> On AMD systems at least there is a lip under the HS that should fit
>> over the raised part of the CPU well so that the HS sits flush on the
>> core of the CPU.Also I remove the crappy thermal gum,polish/lap the HS
>> bottom and use thermal paste.
>> HTH :)

>I'll have to talk to Ben about it - I don't want to do anything myself in
>case (ha ha!) it blows up or melts or something! He won't be too happy and I
>really don't like complaining!

Assuming that the H/S is not on arse first, and that the sensors are
reading / interpreted correctly - you have may have a dead spot.

The CFM of the rear fan is not disclosed, and it's of the cheap ****
sleve variety. Pass through [ no stampings ] on that 80mm hole is
excellent but I question the ability of a poorly located exhaust fan
which is placed high for the GPU and placed low for the case ceiling
[creating a dead spot at the top of the case] to do it's job.

It's not the job of exhausting the x2 front intakes, which are behind
pillars which seems poor to me although I assume that WD's approved of
the Safari's means they are happy with the arrangement. rather that
the intakes may be so low as to create insufficient throughput of '
turbulence ' to carry the airflow to the exhaust fan [ singular ] .

It's a ' guesstimate ' but I'd put a temporary megga delta fan in the
rear to see if it can pick-up-the-flow before (a) it creates a dead
spot before, or after (b) [ back pressure ] the 80mm exhaust.

At 100+ plusUK, it's a poor performance / set up for an alloy case. I
don't have one and have never seen one but the case design apart from
the front air intake seems reasonable to good, so I'm left with fan
arrangement [s] and their [ ability ] specification.

BoroLad

N.B. change the rear to a 5k *uck off delta, what do you get ?

GW De Lacey
June 21st 04, 03:23 AM
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:17:13 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:

[...]

>I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
>space for the one exhaust fan!
>
Are your temp readings in Celsius or Fahrenheit?
Just as thought...

--
GW De Lacey

Hellmark
June 21st 04, 04:14 AM
kony's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his body
were:
> No, you do not want an 120mm fan for the CPU. It won't even fit, there
> are no heatsinks that I'm aware of that can use 120mm, at most it would be
> 92mm, but even then you would likely need an adapter. 80mm is correct
> size for your heatsink, the most you should do is select a different 80mm
> fan with higher flow rate, though of course it will be louder.

I have seen some setups for doing it, and also as you said you can also
get an adapter.

>>> Also, get more fans. Never can have too many. But then again, I go for
>>> over kill, and I barely have any fans in my system currently (by my
>>> standards) and I can hear it across the house.
>>I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
>>space for the one exhaust fan!
> Adding a fan to the side panel would require cutting out a new hole.
> There it "might" be reasonable to use 120mm, though you shouldn't need
> more than the lowest RPM model from any maker, to keep noise low as a
> higher RPM 120mm fan can be quite noisey.

Still, should be a spot up front and in back for putting in fans.

Hellmark
June 21st 04, 04:15 AM
GW De Lacey's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his
body were:
> On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:17:13 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>>I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
>>space for the one exhaust fan!
> Are your temp readings in Celsius or Fahrenheit?
> Just as thought...

Either way, thats way too hot. 160 degrees is to hot for fahrenheit or
celsius

kony
June 21st 04, 04:54 AM
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:14:58 GMT, Hellmark >
wrote:

>kony's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his body
>were:
>> No, you do not want an 120mm fan for the CPU. It won't even fit, there
>> are no heatsinks that I'm aware of that can use 120mm, at most it would be
>> 92mm, but even then you would likely need an adapter. 80mm is correct
>> size for your heatsink, the most you should do is select a different 80mm
>> fan with higher flow rate, though of course it will be louder.
>
>I have seen some setups for doing it, and also as you said you can also
>get an adapter.

But there is no gain to doing it.
Beyond a certain point the adapter is adding so much air volume between
the fan and 'sink that it's robbing the fan of CFM by maintaining this
pressurized region. The optimal fan size is that where the opening is
matched to the 'sink fins, while the fan sits as near the 'sink as
possible, not raised up off of it more than a few mm.

If greater flow rate through a sink is needed, beyond a 92mm fan it's
necessary to use a thicker fan, higher RPM, or adapt the 'sink to a
squirrel cage blower, which is extreme enough in itself that water cooling
may easily be a better alternative though more expensive.

>>>> Also, get more fans. Never can have too many. But then again, I go for
>>>> over kill, and I barely have any fans in my system currently (by my
>>>> standards) and I can hear it across the house.
>>>I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
>>>space for the one exhaust fan!
>> Adding a fan to the side panel would require cutting out a new hole.
>> There it "might" be reasonable to use 120mm, though you shouldn't need
>> more than the lowest RPM model from any maker, to keep noise low as a
>> higher RPM 120mm fan can be quite noisey.
>
>Still, should be a spot up front and in back for putting in fans.

She linked pics of the case which show the two front bay fans, which draw
from behind a recessed area on the front bezel, but that's still a lot of
minor flow restrictions adding up to a significant enough flow reduction
to be an issue becaue of the higher heat parts inside. Two fans with
nothing on either side, impeding them, would suffice. That case just
isn't very well engineered considering that anyone with a budget to use
it, will likely put similar funds towards higher-performance gear inside.

Hellmark
June 21st 04, 05:14 AM
kony's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his body
were:
> But there is no gain to doing it.
> Beyond a certain point the adapter is adding so much air volume between
> the fan and 'sink that it's robbing the fan of CFM by maintaining this
> pressurized region. The optimal fan size is that where the opening is
> matched to the 'sink fins, while the fan sits as near the 'sink as
> possible, not raised up off of it more than a few mm.

Depends on the sink, there are a few setups meant for larger fans.

>>Still, should be a spot up front and in back for putting in fans.
> She linked pics of the case which show the two front bay fans, which draw
> from behind a recessed area on the front bezel, but that's still a lot of
> minor flow restrictions adding up to a significant enough flow reduction
> to be an issue becaue of the higher heat parts inside. Two fans with
> nothing on either side, impeding them, would suffice. That case just
> isn't very well engineered considering that anyone with a budget to use
> it, will likely put similar funds towards higher-performance gear inside.

I didnt get that post on my server.

Wes Newell
June 21st 04, 06:59 AM
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 13:36:28 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:

> Wes Newell wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:12:24 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>>
>>> I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave
>>> Master case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the
>>> PSU is a 480W Tagan.
>>>
>>> The rest of the spec is as follows: -
>>>
>>> 1GB RAM
>>> 3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
>>> 9800XT 256MB
>>> Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
>>> Plextor 708A
>>> Samsung combi
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a *serious* issue with overheating - and I do mean *SERIOUS*.
>>> With the side panel on, it *IDLES* at between 60-65C (140-149F)
>>> and once, when
>>>
>>> I'm running it with the side off at the moment and it's stabilised at
>>> 45C (113F) - but I don't want to have to do that forever! I'm
>>> hoping
>>
>> The problem (at least one) is obvious from the above 2 lines. Fix your
>> case cooling first.
>
> Well, DUH! I think I could have figured that out myself! THAT'S what I'm
> trying to do!

Are you blonde by any chance? If it's 40C in your house and 25C outside,
would you have to ask how to cool your house? How about creating some
ventilation? And in case you didn't know, heat rises, so put exhaust fans
high, intake fans low. Simple common sense should apply.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Wes Newell
June 21st 04, 07:08 AM
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:02:31 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:

> Just so we're clear - this http://tinyurl.com/2l4vq is the case in
> question...There is only ONE case fan at the back - that's it, there isn't
> room for any others.

Well, according to the link you provided, the case has mounts for dual
80x80x25mm intake fans in the front, and one exhaust fan in the rear. Now
where I come from that's 3, not 1. Now add the PSU exhaust and you have an
even match of 2 intake in front and 2 exhuast in rear. The only other
thing to make sure of is that the intake fans don't have restricted air.
Most cases DO restrict airflow. That's easily overcome by doing away with
the restrictions.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

kony
June 21st 04, 07:18 AM
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 04:14:50 GMT, Hellmark >
wrote:

>kony's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his body
>were:
>> But there is no gain to doing it.
>> Beyond a certain point the adapter is adding so much air volume between
>> the fan and 'sink that it's robbing the fan of CFM by maintaining this
>> pressurized region. The optimal fan size is that where the opening is
>> matched to the 'sink fins, while the fan sits as near the 'sink as
>> possible, not raised up off of it more than a few mm.
>
>Depends on the sink, there are a few setups meant for larger fans.

What sink is meant for a fan larger than 120mm?
Motherboards simply aren't designed to have that large an area around the
socket, even if a 'sink were made to accomodate a 120mm fan, that fan
would mostly hang outside the fin area, where the greater portion of the
airflow didn't pass though the hotter portion of the fins.

Even Thermalright's SLK series, some of the very best air-coolers, which
will take a 92mm, show very little benefit beyond that seen with a similar
80mm fan. By similar, I mean the noise level isn't even lower with the
92mm fan unless both were running extremely slow, under 1000 RPM, at which
point the 92 mm is slightly better, but her system is looking like it
needs the opposite, an even higher RPM fan, _IF_ no other remedy suffices.

kony
June 21st 04, 11:05 AM
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 06:18:05 GMT, kony > wrote:

>On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 04:14:50 GMT, Hellmark >

>>Depends on the sink, there are a few setups meant for larger fans.
>
>What sink is meant for a fan larger than 120mm?

I meant, "What sink is meant for a fan larger than 92mm?"
There are some Zalman (flower?) coolers with the separate fan bracket, but
they are not suited to hotter running CPUs, for the same $ a CPU would be
cooler with something else, like one of the Thermalrights... which are
deeply discounted from time to time, the last SLK-947U I bought only cost
$20.

General Schvantzkoph
June 21st 04, 12:42 PM
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:12:24 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:

> I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave Master
> case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the PSU is a 480W
> Tagan.
>
> The rest of the spec is as follows: -
>
> 1GB RAM
> 3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
> 9800XT 256MB
> Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
> Plextor 708A
> Samsung combi

As a temporary measure, until you add more fans to your case, reduce the
clock rate on your CPU. Reducing the clock rate will do two things for
you, 1) it will give you more timing margin. 2) It will reduce the power
consumed by the CPU. If you step the clock rate down enough you will also
be able to lower the core voltage. Power is V^2/R so reducing the core
voltage reduces the power dramatically. BTW that's what AMD is doing for
their 30W and 50W Opterons. The "low power" parts are just fast parts that
are run at a lower clock frequency and a lower core voltage.

Ben Pope
June 21st 04, 08:17 PM
General Schvantzkoph wrote:
> Power is V^2/R so reducing the core
> voltage reduces the power dramatically.

I think that heat production in a chip is more about capacitance than
resistance. The voltage and capacitance (and switching time) will affect
the amount of current that flows, and that will determine the heat
production.

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

rstlne
June 21st 04, 08:54 PM
"Ben Pope" > wrote in message
...
> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
> > Power is V^2/R so reducing the core
> > voltage reduces the power dramatically.
>
> I think that heat production in a chip is more about capacitance than
> resistance. The voltage and capacitance (and switching time) will affect
> the amount of current that flows, and that will determine the heat
> production.
>
> Ben

Capacitive Reactance (Xc)
If you had a pure Capacitive circut then the P = V^2/(Xc) might be correct
Of course, it's a ton more complicated than this in a processor..
and I would have to wonder just how much total capacitance there is in a
processor (I wouldnt guess it's a lot given it's size)
;P

General Schvantzkoph
June 21st 04, 09:50 PM
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:54:31 +0100, wrote:

>
> "Ben Pope" > wrote in message
> ...
>> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
>> > Power is V^2/R so reducing the core
>> > voltage reduces the power dramatically.
>>
>> I think that heat production in a chip is more about capacitance than
>> resistance. The voltage and capacitance (and switching time) will affect
>> the amount of current that flows, and that will determine the heat
>> production.
>>
>> Ben
>
> Capacitive Reactance (Xc)
> If you had a pure Capacitive circut then the P = V^2/(Xc) might be correct
> Of course, it's a ton more complicated than this in a processor..
> and I would have to wonder just how much total capacitance there is in a
> processor (I wouldnt guess it's a lot given it's size)
> ;P

The leakage current is the resistive part, the capactance is reactive. The
capactive part dominated in earlier generations but as line widths have
become smaller the leakage has become much more significant. In both cases
the power is related to the square of the core voltage. The reactive part
is linearly related to the frequency, so reducing the clock frequency
reduces the reactive power. If you lower the clock frequency and lower the
core voltage you get a very large reduction in power.

Ben Pope
June 21st 04, 09:51 PM
rstlne wrote:
> "Ben Pope" > wrote in message
> ...
>> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
>>> Power is V^2/R so reducing the core
>>> voltage reduces the power dramatically.
>>
>> I think that heat production in a chip is more about capacitance than
>> resistance. The voltage and capacitance (and switching time) will affect
>> the amount of current that flows, and that will determine the heat
>> production.
>>
>> Ben
>
> Capacitive Reactance (Xc)
> If you had a pure Capacitive circut then the P = V^2/(Xc) might be correct
> Of course, it's a ton more complicated than this in a processor..
> and I would have to wonder just how much total capacitance there is in a
> processor (I wouldnt guess it's a lot given it's size)
> ;P

No, but there are 50Million transistors being charged and discharged around
2Billion times/s = 100 * 10^15 charges and discharges per second. So they
might be small, but there are a considerable number of them. Thats rough
for a P4 working at 100%, which would probably melt it pretty quick. Still,
an order of magnitude doesn't make a whole load of difference :-p

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

CBFalconer
June 22nd 04, 01:48 AM
Ben Pope wrote:
> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
>
>> Power is V^2/R so reducing the core
>> voltage reduces the power dramatically.
>
> I think that heat production in a chip is more about capacitance
> than resistance. The voltage and capacitance (and switching time)
> will affect the amount of current that flows, and that will
> determine the heat production.

In CMOS logic the action consists of charging and discharging many
small capacitances at the clock rate. The charge q transferred is
proportional to V and C, i.e. dQ = CV. The time interval dT is
inversely proportional to frequence, so the effective current I is
dQ/dT, and the effective power is V*I. Since q is proportional to
V, that gives the usual power vs V squared relationship, but power
is also directly proportional to frequency.

Just keep your eye on the fundamental ball, power is voltage times
current.

--
Chuck F ) )
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!

Ben Pope
June 22nd 04, 02:59 AM
CBFalconer wrote:
> Ben Pope wrote:
>> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
>>
>>> Power is V^2/R so reducing the core
>>> voltage reduces the power dramatically.
>>
>> I think that heat production in a chip is more about capacitance
>> than resistance. The voltage and capacitance (and switching time)
>> will affect the amount of current that flows, and that will
>> determine the heat production.
>
> In CMOS logic the action consists of charging and discharging many
> small capacitances at the clock rate. The charge q transferred is
> proportional to V and C, i.e. dQ = CV. The time interval dT is
> inversely proportional to frequence, so the effective current I is
> dQ/dT, and the effective power is V*I. Since q is proportional to
> V, that gives the usual power vs V squared relationship, but power
> is also directly proportional to frequency.
>
> Just keep your eye on the fundamental ball, power is voltage times
> current.

I good point well made. Much better than I tried to make it. :-p

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

Arnfinn Haraldsen
June 22nd 04, 09:38 AM
It shold not overheat like this in that case, it has adequate (but barely)
airflow with its two intake fans in front

http://www.modthebox.com/review287_4.shtml

did you remove any plastic protection and put on thermal paste?

maybe you can set a fan at top to get air out, but dont use the fine black
grid - it will reduce the airflow by 75%.


"Miss Perspicacia Tick" > wrote in message
...
> I have an FX-53 based system on an SK8V board in a CoolerMaster Wave
Master
> case. The HSF is a Swiftech MCX64-V with a Delta fan and the PSU is a 480W
> Tagan.
>
> The rest of the spec is as follows: -
>
> 1GB RAM
> 3xSATA HDs (2xRaptor in a RAID 0 array plus a WDC)
> 9800XT 256MB
> Audigy 2 Platinum Pro XS
> Plextor 708A
> Samsung combi
>
>
> I have a *serious* issue with overheating - and I do mean *SERIOUS*. With
> the side panel on, it *IDLES* at between 60-65C (140-149F) and once,
when
> I was doing nothing more than designing a brochure in Publisher, it hit
70C
> (167F) and locked up. I have moved all obstructions from around the HSF
and
> made sure everything is dust free (it's only a day old!) Is there a fault
> somewhere? I was lead to believe that the motherboard had smart
temperature
> control - well 60-65 at idle tells me either it doesn't or it isn't
working.
> Is there a setting I've overlooked in the BIOS (I didn't build it)? I
don't
> have much spare cash to spend on any more cooling (and there isn't any
room
> in the case for any more fans anyway!)
>
> I'm running it with the side off at the moment and it's stabilised at 45C
> (113F) - but I don't want to have to do that forever! I'm hoping for an
> idle temperature (with the side on) of around 35-45C (95-113F) and
50-55C
> (122-131F) under load. Achievable? I don't think it's asking *too* much,
do
> you?!
>
> I've RTFM and it's not exactly explicit!
>
> How do I achieve what I consider to be the optimum running temperature?! I
> will call the bloke who built it on Monday, but I thought I'd ask here
> first - I know that MBM isn't known for its accuracy but, on this
occasion,
> it's spot on (I've checked it with the BIOS).
>
> Can someone offer me some cooling solutions that won't empty my bank
> account?!
>
> Thanks
>
>

Miss Perspicacia Tick
June 22nd 04, 01:05 PM
General Schvantzkoph wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:54:31 +0100, wrote:
>
>>
>> "Ben Pope" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
>>>> Power is V^2/R so reducing the core
>>>> voltage reduces the power dramatically.
>>>
>>> I think that heat production in a chip is more about capacitance
>>> than resistance. The voltage and capacitance (and switching time)
>>> will affect the amount of current that flows, and that will
>>> determine the heat production.
>>>
>>> Ben
>>
>> Capacitive Reactance (Xc)
>> If you had a pure Capacitive circut then the P = V^2/(Xc) might be
>> correct Of course, it's a ton more complicated than this in a
>> processor..
>> and I would have to wonder just how much total capacitance there is
>> in a processor (I wouldnt guess it's a lot given it's size)
>> ;P
>
> The leakage current is the resistive part, the capactance is
> reactive. The capactive part dominated in earlier generations but as
> line widths have become smaller the leakage has become much more
> significant. In both cases the power is related to the square of the
> core voltage. The reactive part is linearly related to the frequency,
> so reducing the clock frequency reduces the reactive power. If you
> lower the clock frequency and lower the core voltage you get a very
> large reduction in power.

I wish I'd paid more attention in Physics!