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Wayne Wastier
April 21st 04, 04:25 AM
I think I probably need to update my PSU, but... my funds are little short
this month, and so I wonder if it will work with my present PSU.


Antec 300 Watt Model #:PP-303XP
ABIT K8T800 KV8-MAX3 Retail
AMD64 3200+ Retail


Wayne

Wes Newell
April 21st 04, 07:17 AM
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:25:45 -0500, Wayne Wastier wrote:

> I think I probably need to update my PSU, but... my funds are little short
> this month, and so I wonder if it will work with my present PSU.
>
>
> Antec 300 Watt Model #:PP-303XP
> ABIT K8T800 KV8-MAX3 Retail
> AMD64 3200+ Retail
>
I doubt it. Mine wouldn't work on a 400watt that I ran my XP system on.
Not even close. I'm still using it in my XP system though without a
problem. For the 64 system I ordered 3 new PSU's, a 500W, 550W, and 600W.
The 500W was a Power Magic and it worked fine as did the others which were
Lead Power. The 500W was $15 shipped from amamax.com. So if you can scrape
up $15 you're in business. The 400W that didn't work was a Powerline.

http://www.amamax.com/psspecial2fnlp6100e.html

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

goblin
April 21st 04, 07:30 AM
Wes Newell > wrote in
news:[email protected] .net:

> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:25:45 -0500, Wayne Wastier wrote:
>
>> I think I probably need to update my PSU, but... my funds are little
>> short this month, and so I wonder if it will work with my present
>> PSU.
>>
>>
>> Antec 300 Watt Model #:PP-303XP
>> ABIT K8T800 KV8-MAX3 Retail
>> AMD64 3200+ Retail
>>
> I doubt it. Mine wouldn't work on a 400watt that I ran my XP system
> on. Not even close. I'm still using it in my XP system though without
> a problem. For the 64 system I ordered 3 new PSU's, a 500W, 550W, and
> 600W. The 500W was a Power Magic and it worked fine as did the others
> which were Lead Power. The 500W was $15 shipped from amamax.com. So if
> you can scrape up $15 you're in business. The 400W that didn't work
> was a Powerline.
>
> http://www.amamax.com/psspecial2fnlp6100e.html
>

I have a 450W powering a64 3200+, 4 hard drives, cd burner, dvd burner,
wintv card, and usb camera. No problems and almost no heat either.

Angry American
April 21st 04, 01:12 PM
goblin wrote:
> Wes Newell > wrote in
> news:[email protected] .net:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:25:45 -0500, Wayne Wastier wrote:
>>
>>> I think I probably need to update my PSU, but... my funds are little
>>> short this month, and so I wonder if it will work with my present
>>> PSU.
>>>
>>>
>>> Antec 300 Watt Model #:PP-303XP
>>> ABIT K8T800 KV8-MAX3 Retail
>>> AMD64 3200+ Retail
>>>
>> I doubt it. Mine wouldn't work on a 400watt that I ran my XP system
>> on. Not even close. I'm still using it in my XP system though without
>> a problem. For the 64 system I ordered 3 new PSU's, a 500W, 550W, and
>> 600W. The 500W was a Power Magic and it worked fine as did the others
>> which were Lead Power. The 500W was $15 shipped from amamax.com. So
>> if you can scrape up $15 you're in business. The 400W that didn't
>> work was a Powerline.
>>
>> http://www.amamax.com/psspecial2fnlp6100e.html
>>
>
> I have a 450W powering a64 3200+, 4 hard drives, cd burner, dvd
> burner, wintv card, and usb camera. No problems and almost no heat
> either.

You probably don't have a 15 dollar cheap ass PSU either like Wes. You get
what you pay for. Most cheap PSU's ratings are usually junk, and in the real
world a 500 watt PSU would only put out 250 to 300 in normal room
temperatures. PC Power and Cooling is the only way to go for clean as
advertised power. There are two things a person should never skimp on in
building a PC, the PSU, and the Case. The case will be with you for several
systems, so it better be good, and your PSU as well is the "base" of your
system. Get a cheap one, and your system no matter how bad assed will still
be only mediocre. Spend the money on the basics, and your reliability and
satisfaction will be a lot better.

Dan

Dan

Jason Cothran
April 21st 04, 01:21 PM
"Wayne Wastier" > wrote in message
...
| I think I probably need to update my PSU, but... my funds are little short
| this month, and so I wonder if it will work with my present PSU.
|
|
| Antec 300 Watt Model #:PP-303XP
| ABIT K8T800 KV8-MAX3 Retail
| AMD64 3200+ Retail
|
|

If it is a GOOD 300w power supply with a true rating, then yes, it will work
flawlessly. If it is a cheap power "300w" power supply, then it is probably
only about 180-200 in real world conditions at best. I have a A64 3200+
running on a 350w enermax power supply without a hitch. Of note, that PC
also has DVD burner and DVD-rom, ATI 9800XT, two SATA hard drives, 4 90mm
fans, and one 80mm fan plugged directly in. I am not sure of the rating
system Antec uses, but there goods are typically respectable.

April 21st 04, 02:34 PM
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:25:45 -0500, "Wayne Wastier"
> wrote:

>I think I probably need to update my PSU, but... my funds are little short
>this month, and so I wonder if it will work with my present PSU.
>
>
>Antec 300 Watt Model #:PP-303XP
>ABIT K8T800 KV8-MAX3 Retail
>AMD64 3200+ Retail
>
>
>Wayne
>

I recall seeing a notice that you need at least 16A +12.

hmm.. maybe that was 18 ;)

Wayne Wastier
April 21st 04, 04:43 PM
Thanks Jason. Here are the specs:

http://www.antec-inc.com/specs/p303xp_spe.html




"Jason Cothran" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Wayne Wastier" > wrote in message
> ...
> | I think I probably need to update my PSU, but... my funds are little
> short
> | this month, and so I wonder if it will work with my present PSU.
> |
> |
> | Antec 300 Watt Model #:PP-303XP
> | ABIT K8T800 KV8-MAX3 Retail
> | AMD64 3200+ Retail
> |
> |
>
> If it is a GOOD 300w power supply with a true rating, then yes, it will
> work
> flawlessly. If it is a cheap power "300w" power supply, then it is
> probably
> only about 180-200 in real world conditions at best. I have a A64 3200+
> running on a 350w enermax power supply without a hitch. Of note, that PC
> also has DVD burner and DVD-rom, ATI 9800XT, two SATA hard drives, 4 90mm
> fans, and one 80mm fan plugged directly in. I am not sure of the rating
> system Antec uses, but there goods are typically respectable.
>
>

General Schvantzkoph
April 21st 04, 05:01 PM
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:43:06 -0500, Wayne Wastier wrote:

> Thanks Jason. Here are the specs:
>
> http://www.antec-inc.com/specs/p303xp_spe.html
>
>
>
>
> "Jason Cothran" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Wayne Wastier" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> | I think I probably need to update my PSU, but... my funds are little
>> short
>> | this month, and so I wonder if it will work with my present PSU.
>> |
>> |
>> | Antec 300 Watt Model #:PP-303XP
>> | ABIT K8T800 KV8-MAX3 Retail
>> | AMD64 3200+ Retail
>> |
>> |
>>
>> If it is a GOOD 300w power supply with a true rating, then yes, it will
>> work
>> flawlessly. If it is a cheap power "300w" power supply, then it is
>> probably
>> only about 180-200 in real world conditions at best. I have a A64 3200+
>> running on a 350w enermax power supply without a hitch. Of note, that PC
>> also has DVD burner and DVD-rom, ATI 9800XT, two SATA hard drives, 4 90mm
>> fans, and one 80mm fan plugged directly in. I am not sure of the rating
>> system Antec uses, but there goods are typically respectable.
>>
>>

It looks a little undersized. Does it have the extra 4 pin 12V connector?
(the 4 pin connector is on "P4" compatible supplies, you'll need it for an
AMD64 system also).

Wayne Wastier
April 21st 04, 06:16 PM
"General Schvantzkoph" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:43:06 -0500, Wayne Wastier wrote:
>
>> Thanks Jason. Here are the specs:
>>
>> http://www.antec-inc.com/specs/p303xp_spe.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Jason Cothran" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Wayne Wastier" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> | I think I probably need to update my PSU, but... my funds are little
>>> short
>>> | this month, and so I wonder if it will work with my present PSU.
>>> |
>>> |
>>> | Antec 300 Watt Model #:PP-303XP
>>> | ABIT K8T800 KV8-MAX3 Retail
>>> | AMD64 3200+ Retail
>>> |
>>> |
>>>
>>> If it is a GOOD 300w power supply with a true rating, then yes, it will
>>> work
>>> flawlessly. If it is a cheap power "300w" power supply, then it is
>>> probably
>>> only about 180-200 in real world conditions at best. I have a A64 3200+
>>> running on a 350w enermax power supply without a hitch. Of note, that PC
>>> also has DVD burner and DVD-rom, ATI 9800XT, two SATA hard drives, 4
>>> 90mm
>>> fans, and one 80mm fan plugged directly in. I am not sure of the rating
>>> system Antec uses, but there goods are typically respectable.
>>>
>>>
>
> It looks a little undersized. Does it have the extra 4 pin 12V connector?
> (the 4 pin connector is on "P4" compatible supplies, you'll need it for an
> AMD64 system also).

Yes, it has that, and the other connector for AMD boards.

Wes Newell
April 21st 04, 09:40 PM
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:43:06 -0500, Wayne Wastier wrote:

> Thanks Jason. Here are the specs:
>
> http://www.antec-inc.com/specs/p303xp_spe.html
>
Might work. Might work for a while and then blow due to overload. If
you don't have a spare, get another PSU and keep this for a spare. All
three of the ones I listed work, The 400W that didn't was weak on the +12v
line. Using an old AT PSU to power everything except the MB allowed the MB
to boot, so it was oviously a PSU problem. I tested all of the new PSU's
and they all worked fine with stable voltages, so if you've in a money
pinch.....
And that old saying that you get what you pay for is just that, an old
saying. In real life, it's BS. The cost has nothing to do with the quality
of the product. This has been proven hundreds of times.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

goblin
April 21st 04, 09:44 PM
"Angry American" > wrote in
:

> goblin wrote:
>> Wes Newell > wrote in
>> news:[email protected] .net:
>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:25:45 -0500, Wayne Wastier wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think I probably need to update my PSU, but... my funds are
>>>> little short this month, and so I wonder if it will work with my
>>>> present PSU.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Antec 300 Watt Model #:PP-303XP
>>>> ABIT K8T800 KV8-MAX3 Retail
>>>> AMD64 3200+ Retail
>>>>
>>> I doubt it. Mine wouldn't work on a 400watt that I ran my XP system
>>> on. Not even close. I'm still using it in my XP system though
>>> without a problem. For the 64 system I ordered 3 new PSU's, a 500W,
>>> 550W, and 600W. The 500W was a Power Magic and it worked fine as did
>>> the others which were Lead Power. The 500W was $15 shipped from
>>> amamax.com. So if you can scrape up $15 you're in business. The 400W
>>> that didn't work was a Powerline.
>>>
>>> http://www.amamax.com/psspecial2fnlp6100e.html
>>>
>>
>> I have a 450W powering a64 3200+, 4 hard drives, cd burner, dvd
>> burner, wintv card, and usb camera. No problems and almost no heat
>> either.
>
> You probably don't have a 15 dollar cheap ass PSU either like Wes. You
> get what you pay for. Most cheap PSU's ratings are usually junk, and
> in the real world a 500 watt PSU would only put out 250 to 300 in
> normal room temperatures. PC Power and Cooling is the only way to go
> for clean as advertised power. There are two things a person should
> never skimp on in building a PC, the PSU, and the Case. The case will
> be with you for several systems, so it better be good, and your PSU as
> well is the "base" of your system. Get a cheap one, and your system no
> matter how bad assed will still be only mediocre. Spend the money on
> the basics, and your reliability and satisfaction will be a lot
> better.
>
> Dan
>
> Dan
>
>

True. I have a Raidmax case, $125 and worth every penny.

The only gripe I have is it didn't come with enough power connectors. I
had to add a couple extras myself since I didn't feel like driving 20
miles for just a couple Y-adapters.

Wes Newell
April 21st 04, 10:06 PM
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:12:40 -0500, Angry American wrote:

> You probably don't have a 15 dollar cheap ass PSU either like Wes. You get
> what you pay for.

With this statement, you should change your handle to stupid American. And
the $15 PSU works just fine. It was the old 400W that didn't.

> Most cheap PSU's ratings are usually junk, and in the real
> world a 500 watt PSU would only put out 250 to 300 in normal room
> temperatures.

You said it, so prove it. All PSU's that carry UL and all the other
ratings from all the other countries have to match the ratings to get
aproval. Not to say their aren't some bad units out there, but the
majority meet the specs And even if they're a little low, one can afford
to buy a larger rated PSU when they are cheap.

> PC Power and Cooling is the only way to go for clean as advertised
> power.

A self indulging statement if I ever saw one.

> There are two things a person should never skimp on in building a
> PC, the PSU, and the Case. The case will be with you for several
> systems, so it better be good, and your PSU as well is the "base" of
> your system. Get a cheap one, and your system no matter how bad assed
> will still be only mediocre. Spend the money on the basics, and your
> reliability and satisfaction will be a lot better.
>
So when am I supposed to start having problems with my test system that
doesn't even have a case? Give me a break. And it's been running on a $4
PSU for over 5 years. Hmmm....

You're right about one thing. One shouldn't skimp on the PSU or ram for
that matter. But not money wise, rating wise. If you think you need a 300W
psu, buy a 500W or higher. If you think you need PC3200 ram because that
what your MB states as supporting, buy PC3700 or faster. That way if you
need more speed or power, it's there.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Wayne Wastier
April 21st 04, 11:39 PM
"Wes Newell" > wrote in message
news:[email protected] .net...
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:43:06 -0500, Wayne Wastier wrote:
>
>> Thanks Jason. Here are the specs:
>>
>> http://www.antec-inc.com/specs/p303xp_spe.html
>>
> Might work. Might work for a while and then blow due to overload. If
> you don't have a spare, get another PSU and keep this for a spare. All
> three of the ones I listed work, The 400W that didn't was weak on the +12v
> line. Using an old AT PSU to power everything except the MB allowed the MB
> to boot, so it was oviously a PSU problem. I tested all of the new PSU's
> and they all worked fine with stable voltages, so if you've in a money
> pinch.....
> And that old saying that you get what you pay for is just that, an old
> saying. In real life, it's BS. The cost has nothing to do with the quality
> of the product. This has been proven hundreds of times.
>
> --
> Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Thanks. I know what you mean. Intel's Pentium 1.7ghz chip runs slower than
my Athlon 1800+, and much slower than my Athlon Barton 2600+, especially
when I over clock it to 3000+ <g> And I paid more for the 1.7 Pentium chip
back when I purchased it over a year ago than I did for both Athlon Chips
together. LOL

However, I have decided on getting a PSU that is on the list from the list
posted at ABIT, concering the mobo I am purchasing for this new cpu.
http://www.abit.com.tw/test_report/KV8-MAX3/10.php


Wayne

Angry American
April 22nd 04, 04:03 AM
Wes Newell wrote:
<snip>
> And that old saying that you get what you pay for is just that, an old
> saying. In real life, it's BS. The cost has nothing to do with the
> quality of the product. This has been proven hundreds of times.

Find a cheaper PSU with these specs then ;-)

http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/power_supplies/highperformance/turbocools/510/index.htm

In life it is true, you do get what you pay for. You buy a second rate
motherboard..it may have the same features as a top of the line, but what
quality are the components? I would rather build on rock, not on sand.

Dan

Angry American
April 22nd 04, 04:07 AM
Wes Newell wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:12:40 -0500, Angry American wrote:
>
>> You probably don't have a 15 dollar cheap ass PSU either like Wes.
>> You get what you pay for.
>
> With this statement, you should change your handle to stupid
> American. And the $15 PSU works just fine. It was the old 400W that
> didn't.
>
>> Most cheap PSU's ratings are usually junk, and in the real
>> world a 500 watt PSU would only put out 250 to 300 in normal room
>> temperatures.
>
> You said it, so prove it. All PSU's that carry UL and all the other
> ratings from all the other countries have to match the ratings to get
> aproval. Not to say their aren't some bad units out there, but the
> majority meet the specs And even if they're a little low, one can
> afford to buy a larger rated PSU when they are cheap.
>
>> PC Power and Cooling is the only way to go for clean as advertised
>> power.
>
> A self indulging statement if I ever saw one.
>
>> There are two things a person should never skimp on in building a
>> PC, the PSU, and the Case. The case will be with you for several
>> systems, so it better be good, and your PSU as well is the "base" of
>> your system. Get a cheap one, and your system no matter how bad assed
>> will still be only mediocre. Spend the money on the basics, and your
>> reliability and satisfaction will be a lot better.
>>
> So when am I supposed to start having problems with my test system
> that doesn't even have a case? Give me a break. And it's been running
> on a $4 PSU for over 5 years. Hmmm....
>
> You're right about one thing. One shouldn't skimp on the PSU or ram
> for that matter. But not money wise, rating wise. If you think you
> need a 300W psu, buy a 500W or higher. If you think you need PC3200
> ram because that what your MB states as supporting, buy PC3700 or
> faster. That way if you need more speed or power, it's there.

Read the specs, and operating temps of any PSU, and compare them. Dollars to
Donuts the best will have the best components, and be a damn sight more
expensive. There is a reason why some items are pricier than others. If you
are willing to bet that a cheap part will last, then more power too you, but
for me, I buy the best I can afford. And that goes with anything in life.
Car parts, tools, etc. Quality counts, and usually saves you money in the
long run.

And by the way, no need for the personal bull****, I was not attacking you,
so chill out a bit.

Dan

Wayne Wastier
April 22nd 04, 06:16 AM
"Angry American" > wrote in message
...
> Wes Newell wrote:
> <snip>
>> And that old saying that you get what you pay for is just that, an old
>> saying. In real life, it's BS. The cost has nothing to do with the
>> quality of the product. This has been proven hundreds of times.
>
> Find a cheaper PSU with these specs then ;-)
>
> http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/power_supplies/highperformance/turbocools/510/index.htm
>
> In life it is true, you do get what you pay for. You buy a second rate
> motherboard..it may have the same features as a top of the line, but what
> quality are the components? I would rather build on rock, not on sand.
>
> Dan
>
>

I don't know, (scratches head) I thought it was best to build your computer
in a computer case? Will it work building it on a rock? :o) ROFLMBO


Wayne

Wes Newell
April 22nd 04, 10:18 AM
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:07:55 -0500, Angry American wrote:

> Read the specs, and operating temps of any PSU, and compare them. Dollars to
> Donuts the best will have the best components, and be a damn sight more
> expensive. There is a reason why some items are pricier than others.

There's many reasons why one product might cost more than another, but in
todays world it usually doesn't have a thing to do with quality. When you
buy name brand, you hope you get quality, it could be you're just paying
for overhead cost of advertising, higher labor rates to produce the
product, etc. Price and name have nothing to do with quality of a product
any longer. That's 20 years or more in the past. Todays name brand
companies are after the bottom line. Smart advertising can get them that,
much like the $100 Athletic shoes that only cost $2 to make in china. But
hey, Tiger, Michael, Magic, and the other athletes sure like your money.:-)

> If you are willing to bet that a cheap part will last, then more power
> too you, but for me, I buy the best I can afford. And that goes with
> anything in life. Car parts, tools, etc. Quality counts, and usually
> saves you money in the long run.
>
If you're buying by price, you're just fooling yourself. I've used
hundreds of power supplies over the last 20 years, and it didn't take long
to realize that the cheap ones did just as good a job as the name brand
ones and lasted just as long. Most of the systems I built ran 24/7 in
some unbelievable locations, like in attics where it reached 120F on a
daily basis during the summer. Janitor closets. Bathrooms, etc. Where ever
the moron customers wanted them because the stupid sales people would say
that's fine. So I underclock the hell out of the cpu and let them install
it where ever in hell they want. PSU failures were minimal, and name brand
or not didn't make a difference in failure rate.

> And by the way, no need for the personal bull****, I was not attacking
> you, so chill out a bit.
>
So saying Wes and his cheapass PSU isn't personal in your books. Hmmm...
OK.


--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Wes Newell
April 22nd 04, 11:26 AM
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:03:41 -0500, Angry American wrote:

> Wes Newell wrote:
> <snip>
>> And that old saying that you get what you pay for is just that, an old
>> saying. In real life, it's BS. The cost has nothing to do with the
>> quality of the product. This has been proven hundreds of times.
>
> Find a cheaper PSU with these specs then ;-)
>
> http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/power_supplies/highperformance/turbocools/510/index.htm
>
At Almost $200, it should have some good specs.:-)
Is it worth what you pay for it? To me, no way. I'll stick with my $15
PSU that works just fine.

> In life it is true, you do get what you pay for.

I've already addressed this. And it's BS.

> You buy a second rate motherboard.. it may have the same features as a
> top of the line, but what quality are the components? I would rather
> build on rock, not on sand.
>
Give me a break. Most MB's are manufactured under the same condidtions
using the same components. Even name brand manufactures got bit by the cap
fiasco a few years ago. And there's really not that many MB manufacturers.
There's a lot of OEM boards that come from the same plant. More hype than
anything else. Wonder where cheap ASrock boards come from? Etc., etc.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Wes Newell
April 22nd 04, 11:27 AM
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:16:24 -0500, Wayne Wastier wrote:

> I don't know, (scratches head) I thought it was best to build your computer
> in a computer case? Will it work building it on a rock? :o) ROFLMBO
>
As long as there no iron ore in it, no problem.:-)

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Erez Volach
April 22nd 04, 01:18 PM
"Wes Newell" > wrote in message
news:[email protected] .net...
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:43:06 -0500, Wayne Wastier wrote:
>
> > Thanks Jason. Here are the specs:
> >
> > http://www.antec-inc.com/specs/p303xp_spe.html
> >
> Might work. Might work for a while and then blow due to overload. If
> you don't have a spare, get another PSU and keep this for a spare. All
> three of the ones I listed work, The 400W that didn't was weak on the +12v
> line. Using an old AT PSU to power everything except the MB allowed the MB
> to boot, so it was oviously a PSU problem. I tested all of the new PSU's
> and they all worked fine with stable voltages, so if you've in a money
> pinch.....
> And that old saying that you get what you pay for is just that, an old
> saying. In real life, it's BS. The cost has nothing to do with the quality
> of the product. This has been proven hundreds of times.
>
> --
> Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Actually, quality costs. But then, other factor cost too, and high cost does
not guarantee high quality. low price often does guarantee lack of quality,
certainly below some price point...
Within reasonable boundries, retail price is detemined by cost + shipping +
marketing + brandname reputation (percieved value). There are real world
minima for cost, unless you're willing to sacrifice quality.

Erez Volach
April 22nd 04, 01:30 PM
"Wayne Wastier" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Angry American" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Wes Newell wrote:
> > <snip>
> >> And that old saying that you get what you pay for is just that, an old
> >> saying. In real life, it's BS. The cost has nothing to do with the
> >> quality of the product. This has been proven hundreds of times.
> >
> > Find a cheaper PSU with these specs then ;-)
> >
> >
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/power_supplies/highperformance/turbocools/510/index.htm
> >
> > In life it is true, you do get what you pay for. You buy a second rate
> > motherboard..it may have the same features as a top of the line, but
what
> > quality are the components? I would rather build on rock, not on sand.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
>
> I don't know, (scratches head) I thought it was best to build your
computer
> in a computer case? Will it work building it on a rock? :o) ROFLMBO
>
>
> Wayne
>
>
Actually, is IS built on sand... purified, reduced and refined sand, then
oxidized, doped, etched, layered, lythogrphed, sawed, packed and packaged.

Angry American
April 23rd 04, 03:29 AM
Wes Newell wrote:
<Snip>
>
> There's many reasons why one product might cost more than another,
> but in todays world it usually doesn't have a thing to do with
> quality. When you buy name brand, you hope you get quality, it could
> be you're just paying for overhead cost of advertising, higher labor
> rates to produce the product, etc. Price and name have nothing to do
> with quality of a product any longer. That's 20 years or more in the
> past. Todays name brand companies are after the bottom line. Smart
> advertising can get them that, much like the $100 Athletic shoes that
> only cost $2 to make in china. But hey, Tiger, Michael, Magic, and
> the other athletes sure like your money.:-)

I agree that there is always an exception to any rule. My point isn't
necessarily that price dictates quality, but in the example I posted, it
does. I don't know of any PSU manufacture that makes a PSU as good or as
clean as those. Same goes for MB's. Intel makes their own boards, they are a
bit pricier than those made by Asus and the like, and for the most part they
use better components. I will not buy cheap, and never suggest that anyone
do. I suggest that people do a bit of research, and buy quality. You have a
better chance of getting the performance and reliability this way, hence a
longer lasting system. Same goes for a car, a Yugo will get me the same
places that a Mercedes. But which car will still be running reliably in 10
years? More than likely the Mercedes. The initial cost is outweighed by the
fact that you do not have to buy another throw away car in 3 to 5 years.



> So saying Wes and his cheapass PSU isn't personal in your books.
> Hmmm... OK.

If that is the way it came accross, then I appologize.

Dan

Angry American
April 23rd 04, 03:30 AM
Erez Volach wrote:
<snip>

> Actually, is IS built on sand... purified, reduced and refined sand,
> then oxidized, doped, etched, layered, lythogrphed, sawed, packed and
> packaged.

I knew someone was gonna say this as soon as I hit send <G>

Dan

Wes Newell
April 23rd 04, 06:24 AM
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:29:22 -0500, Angry American wrote:

> Wes Newell wrote:
> <Snip>
>>
>> There's many reasons why one product might cost more than another,
>> but in todays world it usually doesn't have a thing to do with
>> quality. When you buy name brand, you hope you get quality, it could
>> be you're just paying for overhead cost of advertising, higher labor
>> rates to produce the product, etc. Price and name have nothing to do
>> with quality of a product any longer. That's 20 years or more in the
>> past. Todays name brand companies are after the bottom line. Smart
>> advertising can get them that, much like the $100 Athletic shoes that
>> only cost $2 to make in china. But hey, Tiger, Michael, Magic, and
>> the other athletes sure like your money.:-)
>
> I agree that there is always an exception to any rule. My point isn't
> necessarily that price dictates quality, but in the example I posted, it
> does. I don't know of any PSU manufacture that makes a PSU as good or as
> clean as those.

Well, I'll take your word for it since I'm not going to waste my time
trying to find a better one. And at almost $200 each, I dodn't think many
really care.
> Same goes for MB's. Intel makes their own boards, they are a
> bit pricier than those made by Asus and the like, and for the most part
> they use better components. I will not buy cheap, and never suggest that
> anyone do. I suggest that people do a bit of research, and buy quality.

You can still get quality for a cheap price, and I've seen as many Intel
boards go bad as any of the rest. In todays world MB makers pretty much
all use the same components. QC may or may not be better depending on
who's working when the board you buy passes though it, etc. Besides, Intel
doesn't make AMD boards.

> You have a better chance of getting the performance and reliability this
> way, hence a longer lasting system. Same goes for a car, a Yugo will get
> me the same places that a Mercedes. But which car will still be running
> reliably in 10 years? More than likely the Mercedes. The initial cost is
> outweighed by the fact that you do not have to buy another throw away
> car in 3 to 5 years.
>
Again I'll disagree. The only reason an expensive car normally sees longer
life than a cheap car is because of the people that buy, operate, and
maintain them. Expensive autos are usually bought by people that can
afford to properly maintain a vehicle (IOW's older people). It's
appreciated more and because of the cost, not pushed as hard as some of
the cheaper autos. A friend of mine has an old Nissan pickup with over
500,000 miles on it now. But I'll admit that's not the norm for cheap
cars, but not because of quality, but because of percieved value. IOW's
why speed $1000 to repair a 5 year old cheap car that has a resale value
of no more than that, while an expensive 5 year old car may still have a
resale value of $10,000 or more. So no, it's not that they are any better,
it's only economics. And what happens with the cheap car? Well, it's sold
to someone for 1K that can't afford to maintain it, so guess why it dies
a premature death. Properly maintained and they will last about the same
as any expensive auto.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Post Replies Here Please
April 23rd 04, 03:22 PM
>>>>> "Wes" == Wes Newell > writes:

Wes> Again I'll disagree. The only reason an expensive car normally
Wes> sees longer life than a cheap car is because of the people that
Wes> buy, operate, and maintain them. Expensive autos are usually
Wes> bought by people that can afford to properly maintain a vehicle
Wes> (IOW's older people). It's appreciated more and because of the
Wes> cost, not pushed as hard as some of the cheaper autos. A friend
Wes> of mine has an old Nissan pickup with over 500,000 miles on it
Wes> now. But I'll admit that's not the norm for cheap cars, but not
Wes> because of quality, but because of percieved value. IOW's why
Wes> speed $1000 to repair a 5 year old cheap car that has a resale
Wes> value of no more than that, while an expensive 5 year old car
Wes> may still have a resale value of $10,000 or more. So no, it's
Wes> not that they are any better, it's only economics. And what
Wes> happens with the cheap car? Well, it's sold to someone for 1K
Wes> that can't afford to maintain it, so guess why it dies a
Wes> premature death. Properly maintained and they will last about
Wes> the same as any expensive auto.

I usually stay away from stuff like this but I concur with the above
100%. I will add one other point, car companies usually stop making
parts for cheaper cars for the same reasons as above. This creates a
cycle that lowers the value of the car even more. In Cuba where there
is an embargo folks keep their cars for a long time, and keep them
running. It is all a matter of economics and behavior. In the US most
folks put up with a car note or lease for life ;-)).

Whatever.

Angry American
April 23rd 04, 08:43 PM
Wes Newell wrote:
Ok.....I give. I agree to disagree. We both have valid points, and we both
shall remain on opposite sides of the fence <G>

Dan

Ed Light
April 29th 04, 03:08 AM
The cheapos can blow taking all your stuff with them. If the fan in the psu
stops you may not notice it at first. Also check in the bios that the
voltages are ok and not fluctuating much.

--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

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