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Paul Bassman
April 2nd 04, 03:16 AM
Hi Folks,

Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and am
completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to order.
One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a clue what
registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham PC the firm of
choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please can you tell me, does
this defeat the object of playing games for example. I would have my Choice
of a very fast CPU fast hard drive etc, but the ram would bring speed down
to say a XP 2000, do you think Rambus ram could be used with this
motherboard, just what the eck is registered ram and why is it slow?
Thanks!!
Paul.

Tim Tatar
April 2nd 04, 04:51 AM
This provides a nice description.

http://www.docmemory.com/page/news/showpubnews.asp?where=5795186&num=99


"Paul Bassman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Folks,
>
> Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and am
> completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to order.
> One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a clue what
> registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham PC the firm of
> choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please can you tell me, does
> this defeat the object of playing games for example. I would have my
Choice
> of a very fast CPU fast hard drive etc, but the ram would bring speed down
> to say a XP 2000, do you think Rambus ram could be used with this
> motherboard, just what the eck is registered ram and why is it slow?
> Thanks!!
> Paul.
>
>

baskitcaise
April 2nd 04, 10:38 AM
Tim Tatar wrote:

> This provides a nice description.
>
> http://www.docmemory.com/page/news/showpubnews.asp?where=5795186&num=99
>
>

Mmmmm... can`t seem to get to any of that site from here all 404`s

--
Mark
Iligitimi Non Carborundum!
Twixt hill and high water, N.Wales, UK

Jason Cothran
April 2nd 04, 02:14 PM
"Paul Bassman" > wrote in message
...
| Hi Folks,
|
| Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and am
| completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to order.
| One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a clue what
| registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham PC the firm of
| choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please can you tell me, does
| this defeat the object of playing games for example. I would have my
Choice
| of a very fast CPU fast hard drive etc, but the ram would bring speed down
| to say a XP 2000, do you think Rambus ram could be used with this
| motherboard, just what the eck is registered ram and why is it slow?
| Thanks!!
| Paul.
|

Ever heard of ECC ram?

Peter Strömberg
April 2nd 04, 03:40 PM
"Jason Cothran" > wrote in
:

> "Paul Bassman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and
>> am completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to
>> order. One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a
>> clue what registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham
>> PC the firm of choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please
>> can you tell me, does this defeat the object of playing games for
>> example. I would have my Choice of a very fast CPU fast hard drive
>> etc, but the ram would bring speed down to say a XP 2000, do you
>> think Rambus ram could be used with this motherboard, just what the
>> eck is registered ram and why is it slow? Thanks!!
>> Paul.
>>
>
> Ever heard of ECC ram?

ECC != registered

You can get memory in four flavors:
* unbuffered
* unbuffered ECC
* registered
* registered ECC

Registered modules have additional components (registers) placed between
the incoming address and control information and the SDRAM components.
These modules are typically used in Servers due to their added
reliability (they place much less of an electrical load on the memory
controller and therefore make it possible to have as many as 16 or 32
modules in a large system).

--
Peter Strömberg
C2K2 C2K3 ISCCIV02 ISCCIV03

General Schvantzkoph
April 2nd 04, 03:59 PM
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:16:37 +0100, Paul Bassman wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and am
> completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to order.
> One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a clue what
> registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham PC the firm of
> choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please can you tell me, does
> this defeat the object of playing games for example. I would have my Choice
> of a very fast CPU fast hard drive etc, but the ram would bring speed down
> to say a XP 2000, do you think Rambus ram could be used with this
> motherboard, just what the eck is registered ram and why is it slow?
> Thanks!!
> Paul.

Registered RAM has a set of registers on the address and control lines.
The registers reduce the load on the lines and they also reduce the length
of the lines. If you have an unregistered DIMM with 8 RAMs then the
address and control lines from the processor must drive the 8 RAMs
directly, i.e. there are 8 loads on the each line. Also the lines must
travel from the processor, up onto the DIMM and then fanout to the RAMs on
the DIMM. On a registered DIMM the lines from the processor drive the
input of the register, 1 load instead of 8. In addition the lines
terminate at the register which is placed near the connector so the length
of the lines are much shorter. Registered DIMMs significantly improve the
signal quality of the address and control lines. Systems that use
registered DIMMs can support more memory then those that use unbuffered
DIMMs. The downside is that there is a small increase in the access time
(bandwidth is uneffected). As a practical matter the performance loss from
the increased latency is very small, completely unnoticeable in fact. On
the otherhand the performance gain from having more RAM is huge. The
improved signal quality also improves the reliability of the system. On
top of that registered RAMs always include ECC (error correcting codes)
which will correct single bit errors and detect double bit errors.
Unbuffered DIMMs are available with ECC but they usually don't include it.
So an unbuffered system is less reliable for two reasons, the signal
quality is worse so there is increased probablility of an error, and if
there is an error there is no way to detect it let alone fix it.
Registered systems have better signal quality so there is less likelyhood
of a bit error and they have ECC so even if you have a bit error the
processor can correct it.

Ian Hastie
April 2nd 04, 04:35 PM
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:40:30 +0000, Peter Strömberg wrote:

> ECC != registered
>
> You can get memory in four flavors:
> * unbuffered
> * unbuffered ECC
> * registered
> * registered ECC

I don't remember ever seeing registered no parity RAM. I'm not saying it
isn't possible, but I'd be interested in seeing a URL for info on some.

--
Ian.

EOM

Jason Cothran
April 2nd 04, 04:50 PM
"Peter Strömberg" > wrote in message
. 4...
| "Jason Cothran" > wrote in
| :
|
| > "Paul Bassman" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >> Hi Folks,
| >>
| >> Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and
| >> am completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to
| >> order. One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a
| >> clue what registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham
| >> PC the firm of choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please
| >> can you tell me, does this defeat the object of playing games for
| >> example. I would have my Choice of a very fast CPU fast hard drive
| >> etc, but the ram would bring speed down to say a XP 2000, do you
| >> think Rambus ram could be used with this motherboard, just what the
| >> eck is registered ram and why is it slow? Thanks!!
| >> Paul.
| >>
| >
| > Ever heard of ECC ram?
|
| ECC != registered
|
| You can get memory in four flavors:
| * unbuffered
| * unbuffered ECC
| * registered
| * registered ECC
|

Yes, but unbuffered ECC is very very hard to find and likely more expensive
(due to its rarity) than registered ECC. 99% of the time, when you see ECC
ram it is registered.

General Schvantzkoph
April 2nd 04, 08:46 PM
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:35:19 +0100, Ian Hastie wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:40:30 +0000, Peter Strömberg wrote:
>
>> ECC != registered
>>
>> You can get memory in four flavors:
>> * unbuffered
>> * unbuffered ECC
>> * registered
>> * registered ECC
>
> I don't remember ever seeing registered no parity RAM. I'm not saying it
> isn't possible, but I'd be interested in seeing a URL for info on some.

You won't find it. Registered RAM is used in servers, no one in their
right mind would put non-ECC RAM into a server.

Paul Bassman
April 2nd 04, 11:23 PM
The prize go's to General Schvantzkoph whose explanation has made me happy,
so much so, I now want registered ram! I found your explanation very easy to
understand. Many thanks to everyone else who took the time to explain, which
I found very helpful. Thanks again Paul.


"General Schvantzkoph" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:16:37 +0100, Paul Bassman wrote:
>
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a clue what
> > registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham PC the firm
of
> > choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please can you tell me,
does
> > Thanks!!
> > Paul.
>
> Registered RAM has a set of registers on the address and control lines.
> The registers reduce the load on the lines and they also reduce the length
> of the lines. If you have an unregistered DIMM with 8 RAMs then the
> address and control lines from the processor must drive the 8 RAMs
> directly, i.e. there are 8 loads on the each line. Also the lines must
> travel from the processor, up onto the DIMM and then fanout to the RAMs on
> the DIMM. On a registered DIMM the lines from the processor drive the
> input of the register, 1 load instead of 8. In addition the lines
> terminate at the register which is placed near the connector so the length
> of the lines are much shorter. Registered DIMMs significantly improve the
> signal quality of the address and control lines. Systems that use
> registered DIMMs can support more memory then those that use unbuffered
> DIMMs. The downside is that there is a small increase in the access time
> (bandwidth is uneffected). As a practical matter the performance loss from
> the increased latency is very small, completely unnoticeable in fact. On
> the otherhand the performance gain from having more RAM is huge. The
> improved signal quality also improves the reliability of the system. On
> top of that registered RAMs always include ECC (error correcting codes)
> which will correct single bit errors and detect double bit errors.
> Unbuffered DIMMs are available with ECC but they usually don't include it.
> So an unbuffered system is less reliable for two reasons, the signal
> quality is worse so there is increased probablility of an error, and if
> there is an error there is no way to detect it let alone fix it.
> Registered systems have better signal quality so there is less likelyhood
> of a bit error and they have ECC so even if you have a bit error the
> processor can correct it.
>
>

General Schvantzkoph
April 3rd 04, 12:48 AM
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:23:04 +0100, Paul Bassman wrote:

> The prize go's to General Schvantzkoph whose explanation has made me happy,
> so much so, I now want registered ram! I found your explanation very easy to
> understand. Many thanks to everyone else who took the time to explain, which
> I found very helpful. Thanks again Paul.
>


Your welcome

Ian Hastie
April 3rd 04, 11:54 PM
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:23:04 +0100, Paul Bassman wrote:

> The prize go's to General Schvantzkoph whose explanation has made me
> happy, so much so, I now want registered ram! I found your explanation
> very easy to understand. Many thanks to everyone else who took the time to
> explain, which I found very helpful. Thanks again Paul.

For best performance you should buy your RAM as two identical model sticks
of equal size. This will enable you to make use of the dual channel
memory controller. I know some RAM makers sell what they call matched
pairs, but it seems to me very unlikely they'd offer a significant
performance boost. Or, in fact, any at all.

--
Ian.

EOM

April 4th 04, 04:40 AM
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:54:04 +0100, Ian Hastie
> wrote:

>On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:23:04 +0100, Paul Bassman wrote:
>
>> The prize go's to General Schvantzkoph whose explanation has made me
>> happy, so much so, I now want registered ram! I found your explanation
>> very easy to understand. Many thanks to everyone else who took the time to
>> explain, which I found very helpful. Thanks again Paul.
>
>For best performance you should buy your RAM as two identical model sticks
>of equal size. This will enable you to make use of the dual channel
>memory controller. I know some RAM makers sell what they call matched
>pairs, but it seems to me very unlikely they'd offer a significant
>performance boost. Or, in fact, any at all.

A matched set implies that one stick won't crap out significantly
earlier than the other if you attempt the highest overclock your
system is capable of. In some cases of poor motherboard/ram
compatibility it might mean whether your computer runs reliably or
not.

Although you should be able to get two matched singles ram sticks
through most distribution channels when buying at the same time,
don't underestimate the ability of your local vendor to $crew things
up.

Post Replies Here Please
April 18th 04, 06:12 AM
>>>>> "Jason" == Jason Cothran > writes:

Jason> Yes, but unbuffered ECC is very very hard to find and likely
Jason> more expensive (due to its rarity) than registered ECC. 99% of
Jason> the time, when you see ECC ram it is registered.

Not true at all. Kingston makes unbuffered DDR 3200 ECC ram that costs
less or about the same price as non-ECC ram.

Really some of the super non-ECC DDR ram with the cool expansion
coolers is really expensive ;-). However, you probably won't see much
performance difference but you your system will really look cool!

Most systems use non-ECC ram.

Does it really make much difference these days weather you use ECC or
non-ECC. That's if your system can use both?

Later,

Alan

Jason Cothran
April 18th 04, 06:23 AM
"Post Replies Here Please" > wrote in message
...
| >>>>> "Jason" == Jason Cothran > writes:
|
| Jason> Yes, but unbuffered ECC is very very hard to find and likely
| Jason> more expensive (due to its rarity) than registered ECC. 99% of
| Jason> the time, when you see ECC ram it is registered.
|
| Not true at all. Kingston makes unbuffered DDR 3200 ECC ram that costs
| less or about the same price as non-ECC ram.
|

I guess I stand corrected then, but I have never seen any at any of the my
wholesalers, so I assumed it wasn't made in mass quantities.

XS11E
April 19th 04, 01:16 AM
Post Replies Here Please > wrote in
:

>>>>>> "Jason" == Jason Cothran > writes:
>
> Jason> Yes, but unbuffered ECC is very very hard to find and
> likely Jason> more expensive (due to its rarity) than registered
> ECC. 99% of Jason> the time, when you see ECC ram it is
> registered.
>
> Not true at all. Kingston makes unbuffered DDR 3200 ECC ram that
> costs less or about the same price as non-ECC ram.
>
> Really some of the super non-ECC DDR ram with the cool expansion
> coolers is really expensive ;-). However, you probably won't see
> much performance difference but you your system will really look
> cool!
>
> Most systems use non-ECC ram.
>
> Does it really make much difference these days weather you use ECC
> or non-ECC. That's if your system can use both?

YES! I use ONLY RAM labelled "Special Sale" or "Huge rebate"!

When I installed my MB I got two 512 sticks of DDR3200 ram in whatever
Fry's had that was cheap, it's worked perfectly. I've heard some have
had problems with the ASUS K8V and RAM, try getting whatever is cheap,
it'll work! <G>