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dvus
October 29th 04, 03:00 AM
I'm fed up with trying to get this system to produce good results in the
newer games and I can only assume it's going to get harder as time
progresses. I upgraded an Athalon XP 2400 CPU to an Athalon XP 2800+
(Barton) and the mobo from an MSI (something or other) to an Abit NF7-S2
with 512 Mb of DDR-SDRAM PC2100. I also replaced my trusty old Ti4200 8x
with an FX 5700LE (I know, just this once I listened to a vender without
doing my homework) and the end results seem just a little better than I had
speed-wise, although I understand the newer FX GPU utilizes the improvements
in DirectX 9.x

There's a computer show in Syracuse in a week or so and I'm trying to decide
what to get. I have four or five hundred I can sneak out of the cookie jar
but that's not enough to get the best mobo/cpu combo, more/faster system
memory and a top of the line graphics adapter. The Abit mobo I have now
doesn't support the newer PCIe solutions so unless I get one that does, it
limits what GPU I can select. I realize the possibilities are nearly endless
and of course I'll be limited by what's available at the show but I was
hoping a few of you guys/gals might take a moment to jot down what you might
go after if you were in my place.

Maybe I should stick with the CPU/mobo I have and concentrate on GPU and
memory, I just don't know what route to take. Any comments one way or the
other would be appreciated.

dvus

Scotter
October 29th 04, 03:17 AM
If I were you I would buy the FX 6800 GT with 256 Meg RAM.
If you look hard, you can find one for as low as $350.
This card will push your current CPU to it's limits, which is good.
With this combo there should not be a game out there you can not play in
med/high settings.
Save the remaining money for your next upgrade...

So then down the road, when you can afford to do another upgrade, you swap
your motherboard, CPU, and RAM for whatever the next great thing is and your
video card will be sufficient, I'm thinking, for anything that comes out up
to at least a year from now.


"dvus" > wrote in message
...
> I'm fed up with trying to get this system to produce good results in the
> newer games and I can only assume it's going to get harder as time
> progresses. I upgraded an Athalon XP 2400 CPU to an Athalon XP 2800+
> (Barton) and the mobo from an MSI (something or other) to an Abit NF7-S2
> with 512 Mb of DDR-SDRAM PC2100. I also replaced my trusty old Ti4200 8x
> with an FX 5700LE (I know, just this once I listened to a vender without
> doing my homework) and the end results seem just a little better than I
> had speed-wise, although I understand the newer FX GPU utilizes the
> improvements in DirectX 9.x
>
> There's a computer show in Syracuse in a week or so and I'm trying to
> decide what to get. I have four or five hundred I can sneak out of the
> cookie jar but that's not enough to get the best mobo/cpu combo,
> more/faster system memory and a top of the line graphics adapter. The Abit
> mobo I have now doesn't support the newer PCIe solutions so unless I get
> one that does, it limits what GPU I can select. I realize the
> possibilities are nearly endless and of course I'll be limited by what's
> available at the show but I was hoping a few of you guys/gals might take a
> moment to jot down what you might go after if you were in my place.
>
> Maybe I should stick with the CPU/mobo I have and concentrate on GPU and
> memory, I just don't know what route to take. Any comments one way or the
> other would be appreciated.
>
> dvus
>

Cuzman
October 29th 04, 03:34 PM
"dvus" > wrote in message
...

" I upgraded an Athalon XP 2400 CPU to an Athalon XP 2800+ (Barton) and the
mobo from an MSI (something or other) to an Abit NF7-S2 with 512 Mb of
DDR-SDRAM PC2100. I also replaced my trusty old Ti4200 8x with an FX
5700LE... "

PC2100 with a 333FSB CPU limits the performance a bit, as does having only
512MB. That 5700LE wasn't much of an upgrade from a Ti4200.


" The Abit mobo I have now doesn't support the newer PCIe solutions so
unless I get one that does, it limits what GPU I can select. "

The only PCI-Express motherboards currently available are Intel LGA775.
However, if you built an LGA775 system you would only have a 32-bit CPU. It
may be better to build an Athlon64 instead. AGP still has a lot of life
left in it.

If I were you, I would think-over all of the following possibilities:

1. Sell your CPU, RAM and graphics card on eBay. Buy the following:
- AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ http://snipurl.com/7uxk $87.00
- OCZ OCZ4331024PFDC-K CL2.5 http://snipurl.com/70rq $204.00
- Gainward GeForce 6800 128MB http://snipurl.com/a5fc $275.00

2. Sell your motherboard, CPU, RAM and graphics card on eBay. Buy the
following:
- AMD Athlon64 2800+ skt754 http://snipurl.com/6bf9 $141.00
- Asus K8V SE Deluxe VIA K8T800 http://snipurl.com/9q35 $115.00
- Corsair VS1GBKIT400 CL2.5 http://snipurl.com/a5dn $159.00
- Chaintech FX5900XT 128MB http://snipurl.com/7uy3 $174.00

3. Sell your motherboard, CPU, RAM and graphics card on eBay. Buy the
following:
- AMD Athlon64 3000+ skt939 http://snipurl.com/a5dp $209.00
- Abit AV8 VIA K8T800 Pro http://snipurl.com/9xva $111.00
- Corsair VS1GBKIT400 CL2.5 http://snipurl.com/a5dn $159.00
- Chaintech FX5900XT 128MB http://snipurl.com/7uy3 $174.00

4. Sell your motherboard, CPU, RAM and graphics card on eBay. Buy the
following:
- Intel P4 520 2.8Ghz LGA775 http://snipurl.com/9s3w $162.00
- Gigabyte GA-8I915P Duo-A http://snipurl.com/a5gr $129.00
- Corsair VS512MB533D2 http://snipurl.com/a5hk $130.00
- Chaintech GeForce 6600GT 128MB http://snipurl.com/a5h9 $209.00

Of course, all of these options take into account that your PSU could handle
these upgrades.

Predator
October 29th 04, 04:45 PM
it's not the mobo or cpu, those are fine. it's the ****ty 5700LE. With
350-500$ you can easily buy a high end card and get major improvements
without blowing money on other things like ram or another marginal cpu
increase.

"dvus" > wrote in message
...
> I'm fed up with trying to get this system to produce good results in the
> newer games and I can only assume it's going to get harder as time
> progresses. I upgraded an Athalon XP 2400 CPU to an Athalon XP 2800+
> (Barton) and the mobo from an MSI (something or other) to an Abit NF7-S2
> with 512 Mb of DDR-SDRAM PC2100. I also replaced my trusty old Ti4200 8x
> with an FX 5700LE (I know, just this once I listened to a vender without
> doing my homework) and the end results seem just a little better than I
> had speed-wise, although I understand the newer FX GPU utilizes the
> improvements in DirectX 9.x
>
> There's a computer show in Syracuse in a week or so and I'm trying to
> decide what to get. I have four or five hundred I can sneak out of the
> cookie jar but that's not enough to get the best mobo/cpu combo,
> more/faster system memory and a top of the line graphics adapter. The Abit
> mobo I have now doesn't support the newer PCIe solutions so unless I get
> one that does, it limits what GPU I can select. I realize the
> possibilities are nearly endless and of course I'll be limited by what's
> available at the show but I was hoping a few of you guys/gals might take a
> moment to jot down what you might go after if you were in my place.
>
> Maybe I should stick with the CPU/mobo I have and concentrate on GPU and
> memory, I just don't know what route to take. Any comments one way or the
> other would be appreciated.
>
> dvus
>

Mac Cool
October 29th 04, 10:42 PM
dvus:

> I upgraded an Athalon XP 2400 CPU to an Athalon XP
> 2800+ (Barton) and the mobo from an MSI (something or other) to an
> Abit NF7-S2 with 512 Mb of DDR-SDRAM PC2100.

> I also replaced my trusty old Ti4200 8x with an FX 5700LE (I know,
> just this once I listened to a vender without doing my homework)

Does 'I know' mean that you realize the 5700LE is a significant
*downgrade* from your Ti4200? If so, why are you still using it? Get
rid of the 5700LE and either put your Ti4200 back in or upgrade to a
faster card (5700 Ultra, 5900XT, 5900, 6800). Don't buy anything with
an SE or LE suffix.

> I understand the newer FX GPU utilizes the improvements in DirectX 9.x

It does, but it's still a slower card than what you had. The 5700LE is
roughly equivalent to a 5200 in performance.

> Maybe I should stick with the CPU/mobo I have and concentrate on GPU
> and memory, I just don't know what route to take. Any comments one
> way or the other would be appreciated.

My recommendations for $400-500 in order:
Keep the Abit
MSI FX5900XT $190
Kingston PC3200 512MB $80
AMD Athlon XP 3000+ 400 FSB retail $168 (I wouldn't rush out to upgrade
the processor because I think you'll see a minimum benefit)

A new graphic card will make the biggest difference.
--
Mac Cool

dvus
October 30th 04, 03:47 AM
Cuzman wrote:
> "dvus" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> " I upgraded an Athalon XP 2400 CPU to an Athalon XP 2800+ (Barton)
> and the mobo from an MSI (something or other) to an Abit NF7-S2 with
> 512 Mb of DDR-SDRAM PC2100. I also replaced my trusty old Ti4200 8x
> with an FX 5700LE... "
>
> PC2100 with a 333FSB CPU limits the performance a bit, as does having
> only 512MB. That 5700LE wasn't much of an upgrade from a Ti4200.
>
>
> " The Abit mobo I have now doesn't support the newer PCIe solutions
> so unless I get one that does, it limits what GPU I can select. "
>
> The only PCI-Express motherboards currently available are Intel
> LGA775. However, if you built an LGA775 system you would only have a
> 32-bit CPU. It may be better to build an Athlon64 instead. AGP
> still has a lot of life left in it.

That was my guess as well, I remember ISA hung around a good long time after
PCI came out, you can't just tell people to throw away all their expansion
cards to move to new technology.

> If I were you, I would think-over all of the following possibilities:
>
> 1. Sell your CPU, RAM and graphics card on eBay. Buy the following:
> - AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ http://snipurl.com/7uxk $87.00
> - OCZ OCZ4331024PFDC-K CL2.5 http://snipurl.com/70rq $204.00
> - Gainward GeForce 6800 128MB http://snipurl.com/a5fc $275.00
>
> 2. Sell your motherboard, CPU, RAM and graphics card on eBay. Buy
> the following:
> - AMD Athlon64 2800+ skt754 http://snipurl.com/6bf9 $141.00
> - Asus K8V SE Deluxe VIA K8T800 http://snipurl.com/9q35 $115.00
> - Corsair VS1GBKIT400 CL2.5 http://snipurl.com/a5dn $159.00
> - Chaintech FX5900XT 128MB http://snipurl.com/7uy3 $174.00
>
> 3. Sell your motherboard, CPU, RAM and graphics card on eBay. Buy
> the following:
> - AMD Athlon64 3000+ skt939 http://snipurl.com/a5dp $209.00
> - Abit AV8 VIA K8T800 Pro http://snipurl.com/9xva $111.00
> - Corsair VS1GBKIT400 CL2.5 http://snipurl.com/a5dn $159.00
> - Chaintech FX5900XT 128MB http://snipurl.com/7uy3 $174.00
>
> 4. Sell your motherboard, CPU, RAM and graphics card on eBay. Buy
> the following:
> - Intel P4 520 2.8Ghz LGA775 http://snipurl.com/9s3w $162.00
> - Gigabyte GA-8I915P Duo-A http://snipurl.com/a5gr $129.00
> - Corsair VS512MB533D2 http://snipurl.com/a5hk $130.00
> - Chaintech GeForce 6600GT 128MB http://snipurl.com/a5h9 $209.00

Thanks very much for your input, I will study the recommendations.

>
> Of course, all of these options take into account that your PSU could
> handle these upgrades.

Yeah, it's a Vantec 550 watt I bought after I lost my second 300 watt PSU a
while back. I was determined to eliminate that problem, at least.

dvus

dvus
October 30th 04, 03:55 AM
Mac Cool wrote:
> dvus:
>
>> I upgraded an Athalon XP 2400 CPU to an Athalon XP
>> 2800+ (Barton) and the mobo from an MSI (something or other) to an
>> Abit NF7-S2 with 512 Mb of DDR-SDRAM PC2100.
>
>> I also replaced my trusty old Ti4200 8x with an FX 5700LE (I know,
>> just this once I listened to a vender without doing my homework)
>
> Does 'I know' mean that you realize the 5700LE is a significant
> *downgrade* from your Ti4200? If so, why are you still using it? Get
> rid of the 5700LE and either put your Ti4200 back in or upgrade to a
> faster card (5700 Ultra, 5900XT, 5900, 6800). Don't buy anything with
> an SE or LE suffix.

Yeah, the chip clock is the same (250 MHz) but the memory clock is only 400
MHz compared to the 4200's 514 MHz. The FX 5700LE board does run newer stuff
faster than the Ti4200 could, but not very much at all.

>> I understand the newer FX GPU utilizes the improvements in DirectX
>> 9.x
>
> It does, but it's still a slower card than what you had. The 5700LE is
> roughly equivalent to a 5200 in performance.

Yeah, I realize that now. I always used to do my homework before upgrading
but I got lazy this time. Big mistake.

>> Maybe I should stick with the CPU/mobo I have and concentrate on GPU
>> and memory, I just don't know what route to take. Any comments one
>> way or the other would be appreciated.
>
> My recommendations for $400-500 in order:
> Keep the Abit
> MSI FX5900XT $190
> Kingston PC3200 512MB $80
> AMD Athlon XP 3000+ 400 FSB retail $168 (I wouldn't rush out to
> upgrade the processor because I think you'll see a minimum benefit)
>
> A new graphic card will make the biggest difference.

Thanks for your suggestions.

dvus

dvus
October 30th 04, 04:00 AM
Scotter wrote:
> "dvus" > wrote:

>> I'm fed up with trying to get this system to produce good results in
>> the newer games and I can only assume it's going to get harder as
>> time progresses. I upgraded an Athalon XP 2400 CPU to an Athalon XP
>> 2800+ (Barton) and the mobo from an MSI (something or other) to an
>> Abit NF7-S2 with 512 Mb of DDR-SDRAM PC2100. I also replaced my
>> trusty old Ti4200 8x with an FX 5700LE (I know, just this once I
>> listened to a vender without doing my homework) and the end results
>> seem just a little better than I had speed-wise, although I
>> understand the newer FX GPU utilizes the improvements in DirectX 9.x
>>
>> There's a computer show in Syracuse in a week or so and I'm trying to
>> decide what to get. I have four or five hundred I can sneak out of
>> the cookie jar but that's not enough to get the best mobo/cpu combo,
>> more/faster system memory and a top of the line graphics adapter.
>> The Abit mobo I have now doesn't support the newer PCIe solutions so
>> unless I get one that does, it limits what GPU I can select. I
>> realize the possibilities are nearly endless and of course I'll be
>> limited by what's available at the show but I was hoping a few of
>> you guys/gals might take a moment to jot down what you might go
>> after if you were in my place. Maybe I should stick with the CPU/mobo I
>> have and concentrate on GPU
>> and memory, I just don't know what route to take. Any comments one
>> way or the other would be appreciated.

> If I were you I would buy the FX 6800 GT with 256 Meg RAM.
> If you look hard, you can find one for as low as $350.
> This card will push your current CPU to it's limits, which is good.
> With this combo there should not be a game out there you can not play
> in med/high settings.
> Save the remaining money for your next upgrade...
>
> So then down the road, when you can afford to do another upgrade, you
> swap your motherboard, CPU, and RAM for whatever the next great thing
> is and your video card will be sufficient, I'm thinking, for anything
> that comes out up to at least a year from now.

I see your logic, thanks for the input.

--
dvus

Mac Cool
October 31st 04, 07:22 PM
dvus:
>> Does 'I know' mean that you realize the 5700LE is a significant
>> *downgrade* from your Ti4200? If so, why are you still using it? Get
>> rid of the 5700LE and either put your Ti4200 back in or upgrade to a
>> faster card (5700 Ultra, 5900XT, 5900, 6800). Don't buy anything
>> with an SE or LE suffix.
>
> Yeah, the chip clock is the same (250 MHz) but the memory clock is
> only 400 MHz compared to the 4200's 514 MHz.

There's a bit more difference than that.

chip/memory
FX5700 : 425/550
FX5700LE : 250/400

I only point it out so that you realize how big a difference a faster
video card will make.

> The FX 5700LE board does run newer stuff faster than the Ti4200
> could, but not very much at all.

I couldn't find benchmarks comparing the two but I'd guess the 5700LE is
about 1/2-2/3 as fast as the Ti4200. The 5700 is about equal to a Ti4200
and the 5700 Ultra is a smigeon faster.

another resource:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/index.html
--
Mac Cool

Mac Cool
October 31st 04, 07:34 PM
dvus:
> Yeah, I realize that now. I always used to do my homework before
> upgrading but I got lazy this time. Big mistake.

I just found this:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mainstream-roundup_6.html

You might want to try it before buying another card.

--
Mac Cool

dvus
November 1st 04, 03:28 AM
Mac Cool wrote:
> dvus:
>> Yeah, I realize that now. I always used to do my homework before
>> upgrading but I got lazy this time. Big mistake.
>
> I just found this:
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mainstream-roundup_6.html
>
> You might want to try it before buying another card.

I tried and got this:

"MySQL: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket
'/tmp/mysql4.sock' (2)"

....whatever that means.

dvus

dvus
November 1st 04, 01:13 PM
dvus wrote:
> Mac Cool wrote:
>> dvus:

>>> Yeah, I realize that now. I always used to do my homework before
>>> upgrading but I got lazy this time. Big mistake.
>>
>> I just found this:
>> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mainstream-roundup_6.html
>>
>> You might want to try it before buying another card.
>
> I tried and got this:
>
> "MySQL: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket
> '/tmp/mysql4.sock' (2)"
>
> ...whatever that means.

A re-boot seems to have fixed that problem, I should have read this a little
earlier. I became interested in a new GPU after my son let me borrow Far Cry
and I couldn't get good visuals with my old Ti4200 8X. The store owner
talked me into an FX5200 and when I told him it seemed slower than my old
card he said it must be defective and that he would replace it. He did
replace it, with the FX5700LE, giving me to believe it had cost him his
profit on the deal to upgrade to the higher numbered card.

The rest is documented up-thread, results have been disappointing to say the
least, both on Far Cry and Doom 3. I don't even know if the CPU upgrade did
anything for performance, I'm assuming the GPU bottleneck would mask any
benefits of the improved specs of the CPU/mobo upgrades. There was a time I
would have studied specs for a month before spending a nickel, my laziness
has proved my undoing.

dvus