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View Full Version : Not OT, right on topic: Ridiculous prices+rich(?) people=inflation in the market


GT-Force
August 7th 04, 04:11 PM
Hi,

I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact paying
these ridiculous graphics card bills.

I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those days',
I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
$600?!? $500? Please, even $400?

Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for these
ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!

The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they will.
Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could sell
it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
right?

Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card prices are
already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now.

Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than this.
Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.

What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.

GT

Brett
August 7th 04, 04:55 PM
>>The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for
these
ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!<<

Oh noes !!! We all the loosers!!!!


:)

B.

Lou
August 7th 04, 05:08 PM
"GT-Force" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact
paying
> these ridiculous graphics card bills.
>
> I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
> Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those
days',
> I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
> $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?
>
> Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
> The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for
these
> ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!
>
> The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they
will.
> Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could
sell
> it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
> right?
>
> Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
> Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card prices are
> already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now.
>
> Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
> I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than this.
> Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.
>
> What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.
>
> GT
>
>

We are game addicts. Not buying the latest hardware to play your game at its
max is like a junky saying "ok I wont buy any more drugs until the price
comes down".
Actually I can afford to buy the latest graphics card ,but even though there
is a lot of excitement about the new games like D3 and how good the new
cards are, I am holding off on buying them because IMO they cost more than I
care to spend for something that I don't really need. Well, at least until
my game addictiveness takes over. I keep reading the D3 reviews and actually
hoping its not really that good so I wont be tempted to buy it or new V card
for it until the price comes down. HL2 is going to be very tough to hold off
an upgrade. Hopefully it will be delayed again, oh but by then I might need
a whole new PC. Dam!

Lou

Sham B
August 7th 04, 05:12 PM
>> Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example
>> is Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card
>> prices are already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the
>> game prices now.

Its all marketing. They know that x% of the buying population will pay $55, and after that, another
y% will pay $30.00, and finally, it will sell for $20.00

Play them at their own game and buy in when you feel good with the price.

Quake 3 Arena goes for $10.99 at Amazon at the moment :)

S

Blahguy
August 7th 04, 05:16 PM
"GT-Force" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact
paying
> these ridiculous graphics card bills.
>
> I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
> Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those
days',
> I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
> $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?
>

The high prices VGA market is only a small portion of the total market, and
a small percentage of sales.

> Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
> The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for
these
> ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!

If no one buys them they will not be produced, as this would be the signal
that the market does not want them.

>
> The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they
will.
> Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could
sell
> it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
> right?
>
> Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
> Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card prices are
> already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now.

It's market forces - companies have a unique product and they will optimise
their profit. You just said you would do it yourself in the previous
paragraph. Why do you think PS2 games and DVDs are reigion specific? So
companies can charge different prices in different counties as too what they
think the market will bear.

>
> Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
> I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than this.
> Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.
>
> What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.
>
> GT
>

I think you are naive. If you think product x is too expensive then don't
buy it.

Cuzman
August 7th 04, 06:01 PM
"GT-Force" > wrote in message
...

" Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card prices are
already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now. "


I'll admit that I am addicted to games, but I've made a pact with myself
that I don't buy games when they first come out. That way, I get the
cheaper versions that include patches, updates and add-ons. I still have
many games on the shelf to play that are 1-2 years old, and this regime also
gives me the luxury to afford the best graphics card from that generation.
I'm about to upgrade my Ti4200 to a 9700 Pro, and I have no plans to buy
Doom3 until it comes down a little in price.

Augustus
August 7th 04, 06:17 PM
"GT-Force" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact
paying
> these ridiculous graphics card bills.
>
> I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
> Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those
days',
> I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
> $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?

It's always been that way. You want bleeding edge, you pay. Back in early
1998 I paid over $300 Cdn for a new Diamond Monster 3D Voodoo card. I paid
over $200 Cdn at the same time for a decent 2D/3D 4Mb Diamond Viper 330 AGP
card. For those of you who don't remember, you needed both cards in your
system. The Voodoo had a pass through cable from the other vide card. AT the
time, this was pretty much cutting edge state of the art. Total cost, 8
years ago, over $500. Total cost today, at least $550. So how have things
changed costwise, exactly?

Kokoro
August 7th 04, 06:28 PM
In alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, GT-Force ordered an army of
hamsters to type:

> Hi,
>
> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact
> paying these ridiculous graphics card bills.
>
> I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics
> card. Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than
> those days', I still think that especially latest generation cards are
> way overpriced. $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?
>
> Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and
> quick! The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by
> paying for these ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!
>
> The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they
> will. Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that
> I could sell it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it
> for any lower, right?
>
> Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example
> is Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card
> prices are already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game
> prices now.
>
> Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
> I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than
> this. Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.
>
> What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.
>
> GT
>
>



i dont know, you get what you pay for. When i bought my Voodoo5 it cost
200, i got my FX5800 for 266 and i got my 6800GT for 245 there is a
difference in prices but its not like its gone up by hundreds

What i have noticed though, over the last few years is that the performance
differences between the low end cards and the high end cards is much wider
than it was. Maybe the prices reflect that?

.....then again ive been watching my little sister lay Alice on my spare
Voodoo3 equiped machine and have been commenting on just how smoothly it
plays, i always thought the little card to be a slow clunky thing.

Kokoro
August 7th 04, 06:33 PM
In alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Kokoro ordered an army of
hamsters to type:

>
>
>
> i dont know, you get what you pay for. When i bought my Voodoo5 it
> cost 200, i got my FX5800 for 266 and i got my 6800GT for 245 there
> is a difference in prices but its not like its gone up by hundreds
>


okay, i just checked my recipt, including vat my 245 6800GT was actually
289.... maybe too close to 300 for much comfort

PRIVATE1964
August 7th 04, 06:39 PM
I'm sorry but $55 is not that much for a game in 2004.
I remember buying Fleet Defender when it came out at Compusa. It was $50 for
that flight sim in 1994 when I bought it. I also remember other games being
around $50 in 1994 when they first came out. If you want it right when it comes
out be prepared to pay a higher amount.

If you don't want to pay the $50 wait a couple of weeks and buy it when the
price drops which it always does.
It's just like video cards, never buy something right when it comes out and you
can save yourself some money.

Doom 3 seems like a game I would be willing to pay $50 for, as did Fleet
Defender in 1994.

PRIVATE1964
August 7th 04, 06:41 PM
>I think you are naive. If you think product x is too expensive then don't
>buy it.

That's right, don't buy it and that forces them to lower their prices quicker.

JK
August 7th 04, 08:10 PM
GT-Force wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact paying
> these ridiculous graphics card bills.
>
> I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
> Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those days',
> I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
> $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?

You don't have to buy a bleeding edge card if you don't want to, however
if you spend many hours playing games, the cost of even a very expensive
card per hour of game play will be small.

>
>
> Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!

Not really. What would probably happen instead is that cards that are
such hard end won't be made, less money will be spent on R&D, and
even lower priced cards won't evolve as rapidly. Sales of the highest
end cards drive R&D spending, and lead to great improvents even
in low priced cards.


>
> The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for these
> ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!

No. Read my previous comments. Without sale of expensive cards, R&D
spending would be much smaller, and technology advances would be
much slower. These advances trickle down to the low priced cards as well
after a while. A low priced card now might is probably a much better
performer than the highest end card of 5 years ago. Even if you don't think
it is worth it for you to buy a very expensive card, be thankful that others
are buying them, as it drives R&D spending and advances that trickle
down to even the lowest priced cards after a bit of time.

>
>
> The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they will.
> Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could sell
> it for,i.e., not for what it's worth,

It is worth what people will pay for it. The cost to make it is just the cost of

parts and assembly, but all the high cost R&D that went into it.

> why would I sell it for any lower,
> right?
>
> Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
> Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that.

Many are paying it. If they play the game for 200 hours, that is under 30 cents
an hour.

> Card prices are
> already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now.
>
> Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
> I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than this.
> Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.
>
> What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.
>
> GT

JK
August 7th 04, 08:13 PM
It also forces them to cut R&D, and new products are released at a much
slower pace.

PRIVATE1964 wrote:

> >I think you are naive. If you think product x is too expensive then don't
> >buy it.
>
> That's right, don't buy it and that forces them to lower their prices quicker.

GT-Force
August 7th 04, 08:55 PM
"Blahguy" > wrote in message
...
> I think you are naive. If you think product x is too expensive then don't
> buy it.

That's what I am already doing, but my point was not it. My point was the
inflated, overpriced games and hardware.

As you said, if they can afford to sell it for lower, as they are doing in
other countries, why not in US? Because customers are willing to and do pay
more. This is the ONLY reason for these ridiculous prices, I think.

GT

tq96
August 7th 04, 09:08 PM
> edge state of the art. Total cost, 8 years ago, over $500. Total cost
> today, at least $550. So how have things changed costwise, exactly?

Several years ago, NVidia's flagship product was the TNT2 Ultra. The price
was about $250. Now it's the Geforce 6800 Ultra @ $500. That's a 100%
increase.

GT-Force
August 7th 04, 09:09 PM
This is exactly what I was writing about.
GT

"tq96" > wrote in message
...
> > edge state of the art. Total cost, 8 years ago, over $500. Total cost
> > today, at least $550. So how have things changed costwise, exactly?
>
> Several years ago, NVidia's flagship product was the TNT2 Ultra. The
price
> was about $250. Now it's the Geforce 6800 Ultra @ $500. That's a 100%
> increase.

JK
August 7th 04, 09:30 PM
Why must you buy the most expensive card? There are obviously those
who are willing to buy it though, otherwise it wouldn't be made. Think
of how much fancy cars, boats, etc. and other hobbies cost.

tq96 wrote:

> > edge state of the art. Total cost, 8 years ago, over $500. Total cost
> > today, at least $550. So how have things changed costwise, exactly?
>
> Several years ago, NVidia's flagship product was the TNT2 Ultra. The price
> was about $250. Now it's the Geforce 6800 Ultra @ $500. That's a 100%
> increase.

Mr. Brian Allen
August 7th 04, 11:32 PM
> Anyone remember the good old days of the Speccy and C64 when you could
> pick up a game for 1.99 on cassette?

I had a TRS 80 with the tape games. Space Probe Math kicked ass.

Dick Kistler
August 7th 04, 11:35 PM
"GT-Force" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact
paying
> these ridiculous graphics card bills.
>
> I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
> Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those
days',
> I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
> $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?

Companies that make the stuff will charge the highest price that people will
pay.
They also will be more complacent because they will have larger cash
reserves.


>
> Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
> The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for
these
> ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!
>
> The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they
will.
> Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could
sell
> it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
> right?

Not only will you save money if you don't buy, but you will put pressure on
the
companies to offer more value for the dollar. This will drive more
innovation.

>
> Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
> Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card prices are
> already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now.
>
> Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
> I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than this.
> Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.
>
> What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.
>
> GT

The argument that the extra dollars go to R&D is purely hypothetical.
At this point, we don't know where the money goes-it may go into
advertising or into the pockets of executives. However I don't think
that high prices drive innovation. More competition and discerning
customers that demand high value for a reasonable price drive innovation
more than than customers that buy the hottest thing available for
the highest price.

Buy your cards and games for best performance per dollar, not just
best performance.

Dick Kistler

JK
August 8th 04, 12:15 AM
Dick Kistler wrote:

> "GT-Force" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact
> paying
> > these ridiculous graphics card bills.
> >
> > I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
> > Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those
> days',
> > I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
> > $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?
>
> Companies that make the stuff will charge the highest price that people will
> pay.
> They also will be more complacent because they will have larger cash
> reserves.
>
> >
> > Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
> > The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for
> these
> > ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!
> >
> > The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they
> will.
> > Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could
> sell
> > it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
> > right?
>
> Not only will you save money if you don't buy, but you will put pressure on
> the
> companies to offer more value for the dollar. This will drive more
> innovation.
>
> >
> > Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
> > Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card prices are
> > already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now.
> >
> > Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
> > I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than this.
> > Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.
> >
> > What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.
> >
> > GT
>
> The argument that the extra dollars go to R&D is purely hypothetical.
> At this point, we don't know where the money goes-it may go into
> advertising or into the pockets of executives. However I don't think
> that high prices drive innovation. More competition and discerning
> customers that demand high value for a reasonable price drive innovation
> more than than customers that buy the hottest thing available for
> the highest price.
>
> Buy your cards and games for best performance per dollar, not just
> best performance.

Even the highest priced video cards aren't expensive compared to other luxury
items. If you calculate the cost per hour of use for high priced cards, it might

be quite low for many people. If someone averages 400 hours a year of
game play, and uses a video card for two years, even the most expensive consumer
level video card would cost under $1 an hour. The highest priced
cards aren't meant for the majority. Cards 1/2 to 1/3 of the prices of the top
ones are very popular though.

>
>
> Dick Kistler

Mark Leuck
August 8th 04, 12:47 AM
"GT-Force" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact
paying
> these ridiculous graphics card bills.
>
> I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
> Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those
days',
> I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
> $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?

The reason why you paid $65 for a real good card is because it wasn't a real
good card

I remember putting ram chips in an Oak VGA card, at that time graphics
accelerators did not exist and even that crappy Oak card was over $100

> Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
> The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for
these
> ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!

These cards (6800/800) are not what makes profit for ATI and Nvidia, they
always release the flagship products first for publicity then later bring
out the low-end stuff

> The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they
will.
> Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could
sell
> it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
> right?

Nobody is forcing you to buy anything

> Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
> Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card prices are
> already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now.

I just paid $44 at Frye's although the first rule of thumb in retail is
"charge what the market will bear"

>
> Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
> I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than this.
> Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.
>
> What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.
>
> GT

Somehow I doubt its anyone but you who isn't thinking

Mark Leuck
August 8th 04, 12:47 AM
"Sham B" > wrote in message
t.net...
> >> Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example
> >> is Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card
> >> prices are already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the
> >> game prices now.
>
> Its all marketing. They know that x% of the buying population will pay
$55, and after that, another
> y% will pay $30.00, and finally, it will sell for $20.00
>
> Play them at their own game and buy in when you feel good with the price.
>
> Quake 3 Arena goes for $10.99 at Amazon at the moment :)
>
> S

$9.99 at Frye's, they were also selling Quake II at the same price

Mark Leuck
August 8th 04, 12:50 AM
"PRIVATE1964" > wrote in message
...
> I'm sorry but $55 is not that much for a game in 2004.
> I remember buying Fleet Defender when it came out at Compusa. It was $50
for
> that flight sim in 1994 when I bought it. I also remember other games
being
> around $50 in 1994 when they first came out. If you want it right when it
comes
> out be prepared to pay a higher amount.

I remember buying a Jumbo Jet Simulator and a submarine game for the Atari
(forget the name) for $50 each back in I think 1982

The Sub game was pretty neat but the Jumbo Jet Simulator was garbage, both
made by Thorn/EMI

Mark Leuck
August 8th 04, 12:52 AM
"tq96" > wrote in message
...
> > edge state of the art. Total cost, 8 years ago, over $500. Total cost
> > today, at least $550. So how have things changed costwise, exactly?
>
> Several years ago, NVidia's flagship product was the TNT2 Ultra. The
price
> was about $250. Now it's the Geforce 6800 Ultra @ $500. That's a 100%
> increase.


Better card tho :)

PRIVATE1964
August 8th 04, 02:23 AM
>I remember buying a Jumbo Jet Simulator and a submarine game for the Atari
>(forget the name) for $50 each back in I think 1982
>
>The Sub game was pretty neat but the Jumbo Jet Simulator was garbage, both
>made by Thorn/EMI
>

My point was. The prices haven't really changed since a long time ago. If
inflation was involved Doom3 would cost probably $75 or higher.
People seem to be so spoiled these days. They find such little things to pick
on. I'm not talking about the original OP here...just in general.
I've been reading a lot of posts in the forums about Doom3 and the complaints
are just so damn picky.

That's another thing. Now that you mention it I seem to remember games for the
Atari 2600 being close to $50 when they first came out also.

Augustus
August 8th 04, 03:30 AM
"tq96" > wrote in message
...
> > edge state of the art. Total cost, 8 years ago, over $500. Total cost
> > today, at least $550. So how have things changed costwise, exactly?
>
> Several years ago, NVidia's flagship product was the TNT2 Ultra. The
price
> was about $250. Now it's the Geforce 6800 Ultra @ $500. That's a 100%
> increase.

I bought a 64Mb Geforce2 GTS Pro when it was new. It was close to $400 Cdn.
They've always been high.

Biz
August 8th 04, 04:40 AM
"JK" > wrote in message
...
> Why must you buy the most expensive card? There are obviously those
> who are willing to buy it though, otherwise it wouldn't be made. Think
> of how much fancy cars, boats, etc. and other hobbies cost.
>
> tq96 wrote:
>
> > > edge state of the art. Total cost, 8 years ago, over $500. Total cost
> > > today, at least $550. So how have things changed costwise, exactly?
> >
> > Several years ago, NVidia's flagship product was the TNT2 Ultra. The
price
> > was about $250. Now it's the Geforce 6800 Ultra @ $500. That's a 100%
> > increase.
>

not really when you factor in the time value of money some economica
geeknoid I'm sure could say for sure, but $250 back then, is probably like
$400 today...

The Black Wibble
August 8th 04, 05:56 AM
"GT-Force" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact
paying
> these ridiculous graphics card bills.
>
> I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
> Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those
days',
> I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
> $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?
>
> Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
> The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for
these
> ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!

It would make no difference because lowering the price would make the
shortage of 6800 based cards more endemic than even now. nVidia can't
produce enough 6800 chips to satify demand which is why the prices for the
cards are so high. So you're just gonna have to wait until the volume of
cards produced is greatly increased before the competition for them is far
less than the now thereby causing prices to drop.

> The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they
will.
> Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could
sell
> it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
> right?

Think! To "milk the bejeesus out of us" you'd sell 1000 $600 hyper-wobblets
pulling $600,000 in revenue rather than sell 20,000 $400 hyper-wobblets and
get $8,000,000 in revenue? This is benefiting you?

Tony.

PRIVATE1964
August 8th 04, 06:20 AM
I think the memory industry is ripping us off.
I remember in around 1985 when I purchased 8 megs of memory for around $200.
Now I can only get 1Gig of memory for around $200.
Same thing with the hardrive companies.........those *******s!!!

The Black Wibble
August 8th 04, 06:37 AM
"PRIVATE1964" > wrote in message
...
> I think the memory industry is ripping us off.
> I remember in around 1985 when I purchased 8 megs of memory for around
$200.
> Now I can only get 1Gig of memory for around $200.
> Same thing with the hardrive companies.........those *******s!!!

They're milking us, I say... milking the little people! Those corporate
swine!

Tony.

Andrew
August 8th 04, 06:51 AM
On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 11:11:14 -0400, "GT-Force"
> wrote:

>I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.

Care to qualify that statement? Even low end cards cost that, there
has never been a medium to high end card costing that little.
--
Andrew. To email unscramble & remove spamtrap.
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

RancidButtChutney
August 8th 04, 02:17 PM
"GT-Force" > wrote in message
...

> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact
paying
> these ridiculous graphics card bills.

1) R&D costs money.
2) Manufacture costs money. The manufacture of a new product initially
costs more than an existing and established product.
3) Marketting costs money.
4) Distribution costs money.

nVidia (and ATI) *need* to make the above effort worth their while so
as to recoup any investments made. That means high initial prices, which
will be most evident in step 2 above.

Once the latest generation are establish and the nVidia and ATI are
comfortably in the red with regards their newest offerings, the
manufacturing
costs are reduced (bulk fabrication is cheaper than one unit here and one
there, which is close to the case now) and the bean counters are happy with
the returns, the prices will go down. It's the same with every product,
regardless of its intendent audience.

(Unless you live in Great Britain, of course. Where, unlike most over
countries
"charge what it's worth" applies, it's customary to "charge what you can get
away with".)

Mickey Johnson
August 8th 04, 04:22 PM
You have to remember, to many, its not a rediculous price. For many, the
difference between 300 and 500 is nothing. I can remember when the voodoo
2's came out and many people were buying two 300 dollar cards to have twice
the fill rate (that was the only gain for buying the second card).

For me what has changed in the industry, while there are a few cutting edge
games for the pc, is the software market has gone to the consoles. I just
picked up a xbox last week because there just isn't enough software anymore
for the pc for it to be my only gaming platform. I bought it with money I
had set aside for a new video card (I am running a Gforce 3 right now).
Instead of buying a 6800 Ultra, most likely, I will buy a GT in a couple of
months. When I got into PC gaming in 1990, a low end system was $1000 and
top of the line was $3000. It's still the same now with exception of you
can go a bit cheaper and a bit more expensive (the gap has gotten wider).
Also I can remember buying strike commander (cutting edge gaming software)
for $60 and paying another $20 for the speech pack. Software is exactly
the same price as before (with the exeption of more budget software now) as
it was 10 years ago (even 20 years ago if you look at the old 8-bit computer
stuff).
--
Mickster

Visit my website and see my arcade!!

http://mickster.freeservers.com

"GT-Force" > wrote in message
...
> This is exactly what I was writing about.
> GT
>
> "tq96" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > edge state of the art. Total cost, 8 years ago, over $500. Total cost
> > > today, at least $550. So how have things changed costwise, exactly?
> >
> > Several years ago, NVidia's flagship product was the TNT2 Ultra. The
> price
> > was about $250. Now it's the Geforce 6800 Ultra @ $500. That's a 100%
> > increase.
>
>

JK
August 8th 04, 05:48 PM
Software cost a tremendous amout of to develop, but each extra copy
costs very little to make. It is hard to plan a pricing strategy that will
maximize profits for the game makers. Perhaps in the future we might
see inovative pricing for games, such as a strategy of not dropping the
price for a game, but offering the consumer a chance to buy a game
that is no longer selling so well at a big discount if bought at the same
time as the more current game.


GT-Force wrote:

> "Blahguy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I think you are naive. If you think product x is too expensive then don't
> > buy it.
>
> That's what I am already doing, but my point was not it. My point was the
> inflated, overpriced games and hardware.
>
> As you said, if they can afford to sell it for lower, as they are doing in
> other countries, why not in US? Because customers are willing to and do pay
> more. This is the ONLY reason for these ridiculous prices, I think.
>
> GT

PRIVATE1964
August 8th 04, 06:09 PM
>
>They're milking us, I say... milking the little people! Those corporate
>swine!
>
>Tony.

lmao!


I think Bill Gates put it best when he said "You wanna play, you gotta pay!"

PRIVATE1964
August 8th 04, 06:18 PM
>That's what I am already doing, but my point was not it. My point was the
>inflated, overpriced games and hardware.
>

The prices are not really inflated. If they were you would be paying a lot more
then $50 for a game.

I've been involved with computers and gaming for a long time.

In the mid 80's memory was just as expensive as it is now and you got a lot
less for your money, same thing with hard drives and video cards.
Games were just as expensive back then the prices have not really increased. If
the game was new the price was around $50. I remember buying a few.

Also consider this.

How much computer power would you get in 1985 for $1000, compared to a system
you can buy today for that same $1000?

Now compare the prices of cars from 1985 to now.

Nada
August 9th 04, 12:28 PM
"GT-Force" > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact paying
> these ridiculous graphics card bills.
>
> I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
> Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those days',
> I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
> $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?
>
> Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
> The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for these
> ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!
>
> The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they will.
> Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could sell
> it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
> right?
>
> Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
> Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card prices are
> already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now.
>
> Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
> I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than this.
> Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.
>
> What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.
>
> GT


I think graphics card prices have always been very high, at least in
the country I live in. The maximum price I saw for the GeForce 6800
Ultra was ridiculously high, topping at over 800 euros! Most basic
6800s are still around 350 to 400 euros, which to me is way too much
even to think of upgrading from GeForce 5900 XT or Radeon 9800 Pro.
6800 GT is on the same price level now than GeForce 2 GTS was a few
years back in my area. The prices need to come down about 50 euros
before I consider upgrading to a 6800. Make no mistake, those 5900XTs
and 9800 Pros are still handy, but we have reached a new level of
graphics with "Far Cry" and "Doom 3", and we'll beginning to see more
intense and heavy gaming environments in the fall and early spring
2005. 30 to 40 frame-rates at 1024 x 768 is tolerable, but my cards
are only a notch away from the low end experience. Those who are
impatient of waiting and want to upgrade now, don't really lose any
money, if you look at it in the long term, but those 400 buckaroos are
still 400 buckaroos = 2 x Xboxes. In that retrospect, it is a tough
price to break through without cringing.

McGrandpa
August 9th 04, 05:30 PM
Nada wrote:
> "GT-Force" > wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in
>> fact paying these ridiculous graphics card bills.
>>
>> I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics
>> card. Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than
>> those days', I still think that especially latest generation cards
>> are way overpriced. $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?
>>
>> Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and
>> quick! The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by
>> paying for these ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!
>>
>> The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad
>> they will. Why would not they? If I could sell something for the
>> most that I could sell it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why
>> would I sell it for any lower, right?
>>
>> Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example
>> is Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card
>> prices are already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the
>> game prices now.
>>
>> Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
>> I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than
>> this. Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.
>>
>> What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.
>>
>> GT
>
>
> I think graphics card prices have always been very high, at least in
> the country I live in. The maximum price I saw for the GeForce 6800
> Ultra was ridiculously high, topping at over 800 euros! Most basic
> 6800s are still around 350 to 400 euros, which to me is way too much
> even to think of upgrading from GeForce 5900 XT or Radeon 9800 Pro.
> 6800 GT is on the same price level now than GeForce 2 GTS was a few
> years back in my area. The prices need to come down about 50 euros
> before I consider upgrading to a 6800. Make no mistake, those 5900XTs
> and 9800 Pros are still handy, but we have reached a new level of
> graphics with "Far Cry" and "Doom 3", and we'll beginning to see more
> intense and heavy gaming environments in the fall and early spring
> 2005. 30 to 40 frame-rates at 1024 x 768 is tolerable, but my cards
> are only a notch away from the low end experience. Those who are
> impatient of waiting and want to upgrade now, don't really lose any
> money, if you look at it in the long term, but those 400 buckaroos are
> still 400 buckaroos = 2 x Xboxes. In that retrospect, it is a tough
> price to break through without cringing.

Supply and demand, it's a dog eat dog world here :) My very first Video
Card cost me $269.95 back in 1987. That card had been out for a couple
years when I bought one. There weren't so many computers to put things
in, so demand being somewhat low (extremely low by todays standards),
there wasn't really any push to develop new technology. Who was gonna
buy it? New ideas, newer faster systems, newer standards. VGA. yeah,
good one. That standard gave us LOTS more than 2, 4 or even 16 colors!
Yep, 256. That video card was an ATI VGA Wonder 1.0 512K card. VGA
was fairly new, but that card had dual outputs, EGA and VGA, plus a PS2
mouse port. Very advanced. I used that card for more than five years
without a though to upgrading it. Until I couldn't play DOOM with that
system! :)
Necessity is the Mother of Invention. Just an offshoot of
supply/demand.
You guys are right, the vendors won't charge more than they believe the
market will bear. But with hot games and gamer enthusiasts, that market
will bear a lot. The vendors are trying to edge the cutting edge
pricepoint up every time they come out with something major/new. When
it doesn't 'go Gold' before it hits the shelves, then they drop the
price. No pre-orders? Hm...knock 40 off. And so on....
McG.

chainbreaker
August 9th 04, 06:37 PM
PRIVATE1964 wrote:
> Doom 3 seems like a game I would be willing to pay $50 for, as did
> Fleet Defender in 1994.


I bet it won't have a tenth of the gaming value that Fleet Defender did,
though. :-)
--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.

PRIVATE1964
August 10th 04, 12:22 AM
>I bet it won't have a tenth of the gaming value that Fleet Defender did,
>though. :-)
>--
>chainbreaker

That's probably true. I bought Fleet Defender on impulse. Something I very
rarely do with games. I usually wait for a few reviews before buying any game.
That way I have less chance of buying garbage.

Fleet Defender turned out to be a very good flight sim with good graphics for
that time. I held on to it for the longest time until I upgraded to Windows XP
and didn't want to be bothered using dos anymore.
Recently I learned someone created software to run dos in WinXP, sure wish I
had my good dos games back!

Eric Witte
August 10th 04, 05:05 PM
> I think graphics card prices have always been very high, at least in
> the country I live in. The maximum price I saw for the GeForce 6800
> Ultra was ridiculously high, topping at over 800 euros! Most basic
> 6800s are still around 350 to 400 euros, which to me is way too much
> even to think of upgrading from GeForce 5900 XT or Radeon 9800 Pro.
> 6800 GT is on the same price level now than GeForce 2 GTS was a few
> years back in my area. The prices need to come down about 50 euros
> before I consider upgrading to a 6800. Make no mistake, those 5900XTs
> and 9800 Pros are still handy, but we have reached a new level of
> graphics with "Far Cry" and "Doom 3", and we'll beginning to see more
> intense and heavy gaming environments in the fall and early spring
> 2005. 30 to 40 frame-rates at 1024 x 768 is tolerable, but my cards
> are only a notch away from the low end experience. Those who are
> impatient of waiting and want to upgrade now, don't really lose any
> money, if you look at it in the long term, but those 400 buckaroos are
> still 400 buckaroos = 2 x Xboxes. In that retrospect, it is a tough
> price to break through without cringing.

Paying $200 and upgrading every 12 months costs the same as paying
$300 and upgrading every 18 months. By waiting for a video card to
drop in price your effectively losing the use of a product during the
most productive phase of its life cycle.

Eric