PDA

View Full Version : Factors why 4200 won't OC ? Ti4200


Jay Sottolano
September 15th 03, 01:15 AM
To all,
Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
running an

ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
533 FSB,
ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
Pentiun 2.4
Win XP Pro SP1

I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
high. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Jay S.

methylenedioxy
September 15th 03, 01:22 AM
"Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
...
> To all,
> Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
> in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
> running an
>
> ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
> on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
> 1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
> 533 FSB,
> ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
> Pentiun 2.4
> Win XP Pro SP1
>
> I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
> are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
> defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
> without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
> won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
> any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
> high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Jay S.
>

Could be the other users are using water cooling, live in Eskimo land and
have the computer case open and outside when they oc, could be anything.
Could be cheating too, I know people used to cheat on 3d mark 01

Jay Sottolano
September 15th 03, 02:02 AM
Hello,
Thanks for the quick reply. I also wondered if the fact that they were
the ASUS version of the drivers might have anything to do with it.
Again, looking at the results online, it seems most folks versions of
43.25 are recognized as WHQL certified, while the ASUS ones are not,
even during the installation phase.
I should have also mentioned that I am running DX9.0A. Thanks again..
I'd appreciate your thoughts on the drivers. I'll also try loading up
the NVidia ones to see if it makes any difference (proably not though).

Jay S.

methylenedioxy wrote:
> "Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>To all,
>>Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
>>in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
>>running an
>>
>>ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
>>on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
>>1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
>>533 FSB,
>>ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
>>Pentiun 2.4
>>Win XP Pro SP1
>>
>>I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
>>are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
>>defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
>>without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
>>won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
>>any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
>>high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
>>
>>Jay S.
>>
>
>
> Could be the other users are using water cooling, live in Eskimo land and
> have the computer case open and outside when they oc, could be anything.
> Could be cheating too, I know people used to cheat on 3d mark 01
>
>

Jay Sottolano
September 15th 03, 02:06 AM
Hello,
Thanks for the quick reply. I have to leave the window open some cold
evening, get the machine down in temp, and see if I can push it a little
more. I wondered also if it could be anything in the ASUS version of
the drivers vs. the NVidia. You would think they would be the same, but
the ASUS 43.25's are note recognized as certified, whereas I think the
NVidia ones are (WHQL?). Haven't tried this with the straight NVidia
drivers.
I should have also mentioned in the original note that I am DX9.0a.
Thanks again.


Jay S.

methylenedioxy wrote:
> "Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>To all,
>>Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
>>in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
>>running an
>>
>>ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
>>on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
>>1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
>>533 FSB,
>>ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
>>Pentiun 2.4
>>Win XP Pro SP1
>>
>>I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
>>are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
>>defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
>>without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
>>won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
>>any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
>>high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
>>
>>Jay S.
>>
>
>
> Could be the other users are using water cooling, live in Eskimo land and
> have the computer case open and outside when they oc, could be anything.
> Could be cheating too, I know people used to cheat on 3d mark 01
>
>

Jay Sottolano
September 15th 03, 02:06 AM
Jibby,
Why do you say that you don't think I know what I am doing? I thought
my question was pretty reasonable. I am seeing folks who are posting
3DMark03 with Core readings at 300 or so. I assume that the benchmark
software is picking that up from someone. It is not a "user field" to
fill in as far as I can see. If you are telling me that a Core of 300
won't run, then that helps me understand, but I don't understand then
why results are being posted on Futuremark site to the contrary.

Jay S.

Jibby wrote:
> at 300 or so on the core the benchmark won't run
> when your last overclock was 265.5 do you know what your doing i think not
> "Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>To all,
>>Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
>>in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
>>running an
>>
>>ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
>>on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
>>1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
>>533 FSB,
>>ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
>>Pentiun 2.4
>>Win XP Pro SP1
>>
>>I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
>>are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
>>defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
>>without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
>>won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
>>any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
>>high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
>>
>>Jay S.
>>
>
>
>

Too_Much_Coffee
September 15th 03, 04:23 AM
"Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
...
> To all,
> Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
> in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
> running an
>
> ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
> on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
> 1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
> 533 FSB,
> ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
> Pentiun 2.4
> Win XP Pro SP1
>
> I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
> are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
> defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
> without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
> won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
> any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
> high. Any thoughts are appreciated.

I have a Ti4200 and I can overclock it to 300/621 without any artifacts. I
really haven't tried to narrow down the max, I just stepped up to 300/621
and it worked. I don't have any special cooling and my AGP bus freq. is
default and so is the voltage. I use the nVidia 44.03 drivers.

Look in your BIOS and make sure your AGP voltage is default and your AGP
freq. is 66MHz. Set your AGP aperture to 128MB. I assume by the 513 that
your card has 64MB of ram, is that correct? The 64MB cards have faster ram
than the 128MB cards. If I remember ASUS did have a 128MB card with fast ram
though.

So, what's wrong with your system? I assume you have a heatsink and fan on
the card. If the freq. and voltage are correct, then the problem is either
with the drivers of there's something wrong with the video card.

For me, drivers have never had any effect on overclocking. Keep your core at
say 270 and try 580 for ram.

I suppose you could have a power supply problem but I really doubt it.



Too_Much_Coffee

---
Got GigaNews?
http://www.giganews.com/customer/gn26215


>
> Jay S.
>

Biz
September 15th 03, 04:36 AM
The chips are all a little bit different, due to slight manufacturing
differences. Its purely luck of the draw how well it will o/c besides the
cooling factors you apply. Thats why Golden sample type cards typically o/c
better, those cards are tested to make sure the chips are the cream of the
crop. Its no different than the concept of o/c'ing a cpu, two identical
processors will most likely not o/c to the same exact level. I'm surprised
not one person gave you that answer b4 I got to this post.
"Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
...
> To all,
> Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
> in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
> running an
>
> ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
> on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
> 1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
> 533 FSB,
> ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
> Pentiun 2.4
> Win XP Pro SP1
>
> I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
> are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
> defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
> without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
> won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
> any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
> high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Jay S.
>

Jay Sottolano
September 15th 03, 06:54 AM
Too_Much_Coffee wrote:
> "Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>To all,
>>Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
>>in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
>>running an
>>
>>ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
>>on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
>>1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
>>533 FSB,
>>ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
>>Pentiun 2.4
>>Win XP Pro SP1
>>
>>I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
>>are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
>>defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
>>without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
>>won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
>>any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
>>high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
>
> I have a Ti4200 and I can overclock it to 300/621 without any artifacts. I
> really haven't tried to narrow down the max, I just stepped up to 300/621
> and it worked. I don't have any special cooling and my AGP bus freq. is
> default and so is the voltage. I use the nVidia 44.03 drivers.
>
> Look in your BIOS and make sure your AGP voltage is default and your AGP
> freq. is 66MHz. Set your AGP aperture to 128MB. I assume by the 513 that
> your card has 64MB of ram, is that correct? The 64MB cards have faster ram
> than the 128MB cards. If I remember ASUS did have a 128MB card with fast ram
> though.
>
> So, what's wrong with your system? I assume you have a heatsink and fan on
> the card. If the freq. and voltage are correct, then the problem is either
> with the drivers of there's something wrong with the video card.
>
> For me, drivers have never had any effect on overclocking. Keep your core at
> say 270 and try 580 for ram.
>
> I suppose you could have a power supply problem but I really doubt it.
>
>
>
> Too_Much_Coffee
>
> ---
> Got GigaNews?
> http://www.giganews.com/customer/gn26215
>
>
>
>>Jay S.
>>
>

Hello and thanks,
Checked out the BIOS setting and the AGP aperture was set at the
default 64, so trying things at 128. My card has 128. There doesn't
appear to be a setting for the freq. and voltaage on the Intel MB, but
all voltages appear normal. It is a 431W Enermax Power supply, so I
don't think that is the issue. The Guru3D site says that about 10% over
default is about the limit you might expect, which is right about where
I am (I imagine I can get little closer). Changing the BIOS AGP
aperture didn't seem to do much.
What are your default card settings? I know that the 64MB were faster
in some cases.

Jay S.

Chimera
September 15th 03, 07:05 AM
Thats cool jibby, let him fry it

Too_Much_Coffee
September 15th 03, 07:16 AM
"Biz" > wrote in message
...
> The chips are all a little bit different, due to slight manufacturing
> differences. Its purely luck of the draw how well it will o/c besides the
> cooling factors you apply. Thats why Golden sample type cards typically
o/c
> better, those cards are tested to make sure the chips are the cream of the
> crop. Its no different than the concept of o/c'ing a cpu, two identical
> processors will most likely not o/c to the same exact level. I'm
surprised
> not one person gave you that answer b4 I got to this post.

Somebody might have mentioned it if he was able to overclock the card more
than 265/540. His default is 252/513. The worst card on the planet should be
able to do better than 265/540; especially an ASUS. He's barely getting 5%
OC.


Too_Much_Coffee

---
Got GigaNews?
http://www.giganews.com/customer/gn26215

> "Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
> ...
> > To all,
> > Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
> > in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
> > running an
> >
> > ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
> > on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
> > 1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
> > 533 FSB,
> > ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
> > Pentiun 2.4
> > Win XP Pro SP1
> >
> > I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
> > are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
> > defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
> > without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
> > won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
> > any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
> > high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
> >
> > Jay S.
> >
>
>

Biz
September 15th 03, 07:53 AM
Technically, I don't believe the cards have to support ANY o/c'ing. I think
the only company to guarantee some o/c'ing is the golden samples, or another
company's equivalent. many of the cards are using the exact same chips,
like Ti 4200, 4400, 4600, etc..., the ones that clocked out at this speed
become 4200's, this higher speed 4400's etc..., just like processors did, or
still do, I'm not sure...
"Too_Much_Coffee " > wrote in message
...
>
> "Biz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The chips are all a little bit different, due to slight manufacturing
> > differences. Its purely luck of the draw how well it will o/c besides
the
> > cooling factors you apply. Thats why Golden sample type cards typically
> o/c
> > better, those cards are tested to make sure the chips are the cream of
the
> > crop. Its no different than the concept of o/c'ing a cpu, two identical
> > processors will most likely not o/c to the same exact level. I'm
> surprised
> > not one person gave you that answer b4 I got to this post.
>
> Somebody might have mentioned it if he was able to overclock the card more
> than 265/540. His default is 252/513. The worst card on the planet should
be
> able to do better than 265/540; especially an ASUS. He's barely getting 5%
> OC.
>
>
> Too_Much_Coffee
>
> ---
> Got GigaNews?
> http://www.giganews.com/customer/gn26215
>
> > "Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > To all,
> > > Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the
factors
> > > in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
> > > running an
> > >
> > > ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
> > > on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
> > > 1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
> > > 533 FSB,
> > > ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
> > > Pentiun 2.4
> > > Win XP Pro SP1
> > >
> > > I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
> > > are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
> > > defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get
to
> > > without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the
benchmark
> > > won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable
with
> > > any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to
that
> > > high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
> > >
> > > Jay S.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Too_Much_Coffee
September 15th 03, 07:58 AM
"Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
...
> Too_Much_Coffee wrote:
> > "Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>To all,
> >>Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
> >>in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
> >>running an
> >>
> >>ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
> >>on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
> >>1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
> >>533 FSB,
> >>ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
> >>Pentiun 2.4
> >>Win XP Pro SP1

<snip>

> Hello and thanks,
> Checked out the BIOS setting and the AGP aperture was set at the
> default 64, so trying things at 128. My card has 128. There doesn't
> appear to be a setting for the freq. and voltaage on the Intel MB, but
> all voltages appear normal. It is a 431W Enermax Power supply, so I
> don't think that is the issue. The Guru3D site says that about 10% over
> default is about the limit you might expect, which is right about where
> I am (I imagine I can get little closer). Changing the BIOS AGP
> aperture didn't seem to do much.
> What are your default card settings? I know that the 64MB were faster
> in some cases.

My defaults are 250/513. You're only able to get a 5% OC. I am getting a 21%
OC. Look at your ram chips on the card. It should say something like -40
or -36 after one of the numbers. -40 is 4 nanosecond and -36 is 3.6ns.
What's the ram brand?

If your ram is 4.5ns (-45) then at 513 your card is already overclocked
because the default for 4.5ns ram is 444MHz. That would make your default
settings 250/444; not 252/513.

No, changing you AGP aperture size won't effect the OC but some of the BIOS
settings will up your 3DMark score.


Too_Much_Coffee

---
Got GigaNews?
http://www.giganews.com/customer/gn26215
>
> Jay S.
>
>

Mark Nichols
September 15th 03, 10:05 AM
"Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
...
> To all,
> Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
> in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
> running an
>
> ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
> on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
> 1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
> 533 FSB,
> ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
> Pentiun 2.4
> Win XP Pro SP1
>
> I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
> are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
> defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
> without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
> won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
> any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
> high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Jay S.
>

I can get my Ti4200 (64meg) to 310/620 Mhz stable no artifacts.... Then
320/630 Mhz with artifacts...

Some suggestions/questions....

Make sure the GPU cooler has a nice thin layer of thermal paste between the
entire GPU surface and heatsink...

How hot is your case???

Have you tried your card in someone else's machine???

------
Mark

Jay Sottolano
September 15th 03, 02:12 PM
To all,
I appreciate all the replies, but I am more confused (welll not
totally) then when I started. Some posts make it sound like moving the
core to 300 will "fry" the card, while the opposite sounds like I should
be able to get up (at least near it) with ease. I will have to pull
the card and look at the chips as someone suggested. Case and MB temps
are not incredibly warm I don't think (around 34 - 37C). So I'm not
quite sure who to believe at this point. As I said if I accept the 10%
rule that 3DGuru talks about, I'm in that ballpark. My cards scores are
comparable to those with similar core and memory spees settings, I just
can't reach some of the levels others here are talking about.

Jay S.

Jay Sottolano wrote:
> To all,
> Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the
> factors in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another.
> I am running an
>
> ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
> on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
> 1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
> 533 FSB,
> ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
> Pentiun 2.4
> Win XP Pro SP1
>
> I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others
> who are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of.
> The defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get
> to without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the
> benchmark won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am
> comparable with any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't
> get it set to that high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Jay S.
>

tHatDudeUK
September 15th 03, 05:47 PM
"Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
...
> To all,
> Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
> in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
> running an

The type of cooling with the card (my ti4200 Leadtek has a big aluminum
thing around it), case airflow (intake fans and outlet fans), temperature of
the room, quality of the power supply.

I currently have mine at 292/540 with no apparent problems. Haven't tried
faster yet. I think I have had faster but I only just swapped out my mobo
and reinstalled windows so I have other things to fiddle with...

iamnotme
September 21st 03, 06:45 AM
I have an ASAUS V8420 deluxe (with ViVo features)...this is the ASUS card
that has 128mb of 3.3ns ram.
I have been using ASUS SmartDoctor to o/[email protected] its highest setting of 275/600
it runs smooth as silk...not very agresssive o/c'ing, but still much higher
than your results. I'll have to try out riva tuner to see how high i can
go...for now i'm fine with this performance.

somethin's either wrong with your card or as another poster mentioned,
getting a gpu chip or ram that doesn't o/c so well is also a possibility.
that would be so sad, especially with an ASUS card.

good hunting,
wal

"Jay Sottolano" > wrote in message
...
> To all,
> Can someone help with either a link or partial explanation, the factors
> in why a particular card may not overclock as much as another. I am
> running an
>
> ASUS 4280TD Ti4200 at 4x AGP,
> on an Intel D845PEBT2 MB with
> 1 GIG of memory (PC2700)
> 533 FSB,
> ASUS 43.25 Drivers,
> Pentiun 2.4
> Win XP Pro SP1
>
> I am running the 3DMark03 benchmarks. I see the results of others who
> are OC'ing Ti4200 to a much greater degree than I am capable of. The
> defaults on the card are 252 Core and 513 memory. The max I can get to
> without video breakup is 265.5/540. At 300 or so on core, the benchmark
> won't run. At the speeds I can set via RivaTuner, I am comparable with
> any other scores I see people achieving, I just can't get it set to that
> high. Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Jay S.
>