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View Full Version : Re: FX5800 Ultra


Scott
June 27th 03, 02:02 PM
All 5800's were built by Nvidia (as well as all 5900's). I think you =
should have taken a pass on the 5800 because it was basically a mistake =
to ever release it. Even Nvidia jokes about the 5800 and admits its not =
a good card. Return it and get the 5900 before its too late.

Scott
"Carchadon" > wrote in message =
...
> Just installed my new card today - awesome - sound isnt too bad (I =
dont have
> the PC right next to my desk) - I don't care what people tell me it's =
a
> great card - all my game sin max-max-max detail/quality - 8x Ansi and =
4x
> AA - Texture sharpening etc. smooooooth.
> Was waituing for a 5900 Ultra but this one was going for =A3200 and is =
one
> built by nVidia (not a third party supplier so guess it may have been =
a
> reference board) - will try overclokcing later but from what I have =
read
> dont hold out much hope - especially as it has thatdaft auto-step down =
on
> the clock speeds when it reaches a certain temp......
>=20
>

Steve Simpson
June 27th 03, 05:19 PM
> I think you should have taken a pass on the 5800 because it was basically a mistake to ever
release it.
> Even Nvidia jokes about the 5800 and admits its not a good card. Return it and get the 5900
before its too late.


Nvidia's CEO said it was 'not successful'. Please provide a link to Nvidia 'joking' about it
being a 'bad card'.

The chip was 'released' as a Quadro for professional use before the 'dustbuster' debacle on the
consumer cards ever surfaced.

The 5900 is the same chip with a wider memory interface and an improved FPU.

If the 5800 is available and significantly less expensive that the 5900 it makes perfect sense
to buy one.

Carchadon
June 27th 03, 10:08 PM
> > I think you should have taken a pass on the 5800 because it was
basically a mistake to ever
> release it.
> > Even Nvidia jokes about the 5800 and admits its not a good card.
Return it and get the 5900
> before its too late.

400 bucks on a 5900 ultra that isnt out or 200 bucks for a 5800 Ultra? - All
my games ru VERY well and this card has give me a bigger performance boost
than I could have hoped for....

Courseyauto
June 27th 03, 10:20 PM
400 bucks on a 5900 ultra that isnt out or 200 bucks for a 5800 Ultra? - All
my games ru VERY well and this card has give me a bigger performance boost
than I could have hoped for....
<<<<<<

The non ultra 5900 is $425 the 5900 Ultra is more like $500.

b00gjuice
June 27th 03, 10:43 PM
> > I think you should have taken a pass on the 5800 because it was
basically a mistake to ever
> release it.

I disagree, I have the 5800 Ultra and it is a great card, yes the fan is
loud but if you do some creative placement of your PC it isn't so bad. It
wasn't that long ago; if you where an overclocker, that your PC was that
loud anyway. Plus, Nvidia has great drivers and you don't have to worry if a
game more than a year old, or maybe wasn't that popular will run well or
not, (unlike ATI).

I think it would have been successful at retail but Nvidia got spooked cause
all the fan sites that tested with the case covers off trashed it for the
noise. Anyone that can pick up a 5800 Ultra or even a 5800 for a smokin
price (much cheaper than a 5900) will be very happy. So if stores start
selling 5800's for a loss just to get rid of them then this may be an
unforseen opportunity for lots of Nvidia fans.

"Steve Simpson" > wrote in message
news:%[email protected]
>
> > Even Nvidia jokes about the 5800 and admits its not a good card.
Return it and get the 5900
> before its too late.
>
>
> Nvidia's CEO said it was 'not successful'. Please provide a link to Nvidia
'joking' about it
> being a 'bad card'.
>
> The chip was 'released' as a Quadro for professional use before the
'dustbuster' debacle on the
> consumer cards ever surfaced.
>
> The 5900 is the same chip with a wider memory interface and an improved
FPU.
>
> If the 5800 is available and significantly less expensive that the 5900 it
makes perfect sense
> to buy one.
>
>
>
>

Carchadon
June 28th 03, 12:58 AM
Agreed. - Now playing highest level intellisample - 6x AA and maximum aniso
with texture shrpening and no lag at all on UT2003, RTCW, UT, FS2002 etc etc
with all games maxed out - for me (from a GeForce3) this is amazing for a
200 bucks card.......

"b00gjuice" > wrote in message
...
> > > I think you should have taken a pass on the 5800 because it was
> basically a mistake to ever
> > release it.
>
> I disagree, I have the 5800 Ultra and it is a great card, yes the fan is
> loud but if you do some creative placement of your PC it isn't so bad. It
> wasn't that long ago; if you where an overclocker, that your PC was that
> loud anyway. Plus, Nvidia has great drivers and you don't have to worry if
a
> game more than a year old, or maybe wasn't that popular will run well or
> not, (unlike ATI).
>
> I think it would have been successful at retail but Nvidia got spooked
cause
> all the fan sites that tested with the case covers off trashed it for the
> noise. Anyone that can pick up a 5800 Ultra or even a 5800 for a smokin
> price (much cheaper than a 5900) will be very happy. So if stores start
> selling 5800's for a loss just to get rid of them then this may be an
> unforseen opportunity for lots of Nvidia fans.
>
> "Steve Simpson" > wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]
> >
> > > Even Nvidia jokes about the 5800 and admits its not a good card.
> Return it and get the 5900
> > before its too late.
> >
> >
> > Nvidia's CEO said it was 'not successful'. Please provide a link to
Nvidia
> 'joking' about it
> > being a 'bad card'.
> >
> > The chip was 'released' as a Quadro for professional use before the
> 'dustbuster' debacle on the
> > consumer cards ever surfaced.
> >
> > The 5900 is the same chip with a wider memory interface and an improved
> FPU.
> >
> > If the 5800 is available and significantly less expensive that the 5900
it
> makes perfect sense
> > to buy one.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Scott
June 28th 03, 01:43 AM
Nvidia made the chip and PCB, then ships it to vendors to be re-branded. =
They can then apply their own heat-sink and fan. I realize this was =
not past practice, but for the FX they adopted this policy to insure =
quality control.

Scott

> Gainward makes their own 5900 cards.

Scott
June 28th 03, 01:48 AM
Nvidia produced a Video joking about the FX 5800 Ultra. Its actually =
pretty funny, and very honest on their part. I don't have a link, but =
its out there. It might be found here somewhere. =
http://www.nvnews.net/

The 5800 is less expensive indeed, but has problems with heat. So much =
so that they need to underclock it during 2D applications. No it does =
not make perfect sense to buy one, in fact, it makes no sense to buy one =
at all.

Scott


"Steve Simpson" > wrote in message =
news:%[email protected]
>=20
> > I think you should have taken a pass on the 5800 because it was =
basically a mistake to ever
> release it.
> > Even Nvidia jokes about the 5800 and admits its not a good card. =
Return it and get the 5900
> before its too late.
>=20
>=20
> Nvidia's CEO said it was 'not successful'. Please provide a link to =
Nvidia 'joking' about it
> being a 'bad card'.
>=20
> The chip was 'released' as a Quadro for professional use before the =
'dustbuster' debacle on the
> consumer cards ever surfaced.
>=20
> The 5900 is the same chip with a wider memory interface and an =
improved FPU.
>=20
> If the 5800 is available and significantly less expensive that the =
5900 it makes perfect sense
> to buy one.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>

Scott
June 28th 03, 01:49 AM
Glad you like it.

Scott

"Carchadon" > wrote in message =
...
> > > I think you should have taken a pass on the 5800 because it was
> basically a mistake to ever
> > release it.
> > > Even Nvidia jokes about the 5800 and admits its not a good card.
> Return it and get the 5900
> > before its too late.
>=20
> 400 bucks on a 5900 ultra that isnt out or 200 bucks for a 5800 Ultra? =
- All
> my games ru VERY well and this card has give me a bigger performance =
boost
> than I could have hoped for....
>=20
>

Steve Simpson
June 28th 03, 02:00 AM
Nvidia made the chip and PCB, then ships it to vendors to be re-branded. They can then apply
their own heat-sink and fan. I realize this was not past practice, but for the FX they adopted
this policy to insure quality control.

Nvidia does not 'make' anything. They single sourced the board because it is complicated and
they wanted to assure QC. This did not go over well at all with the brand board makers.

The 5900 board are being made by the various manuf themselves as evidenced by the different
board colors and component placement.

Courseyauto
June 28th 03, 02:09 AM
<<
Nvidia made the chip and PCB, then ships it to vendors to be re-branded. =
They can then apply their own heat-sink and fan. I realize this was =
not past practice, but for the FX they adopted this policy to insure =
quality control.

Scott>>>

> Gainward makes their own 5900 cards.


You need to check again,Gainward's PCB is red and Nvidia's is green.

Courseyauto
June 28th 03, 02:10 AM
<<Nvidia made the chip and PCB, then ships it to vendors to be re-branded.
They can then apply
their own heat-sink and fan. I realize this was not past practice, but for the
FX they adopted
this policy to insure quality control.

Nvidia does not 'make' anything. They single sourced the board because it is
complicated and
they wanted to assure QC. This did not go over well at all with the brand
board makers.

The 5900 board are being made by the various manuf themselves as evidenced by
the different
board colors and component placement.>>

PNY made the 5800 cards for nvidia

Courseyauto
June 28th 03, 02:12 AM
<<Sorry, but even the non-ultra is going for more then $200. The ATI 9700 =
Pro, or 9800 Pro is a far better purchase. And no, I'm not anti Nvidia. =
I have a GF3/Ti4600 and a 9800 Pro.

Scott
>>>

Why dont you go back to the ATI group where mabey someone gives a **** about
what you say.............

Steve Simpson
June 28th 03, 02:16 AM
>Nvidia produced a Video joking about the FX 5800 Ultra. Its actually pretty funny, and very
honest on their part. I don't have a link, but its out >there. It might be found here
somewhere. http://www.nvnews.net/

Indeed.

Oh, I just remembered something . . . . ATI produced a video saying, just joking of course, that
only a fool would buy a Radion since the drivers don't work and never have . . yuck, yuck yuck.
It was pretty funny to . . and you know I can't seem to remember that darn link, but I think you
can find it here: www.internet.net

>The 5800 is less expensive indeed, but has problems with heat. So much so that they need to
underclock it during 2D applications. No it does >not make perfect sense to buy one, in fact,
it makes no sense to buy one at all.


You're right. Makes no sense to buy one of those Pentium 4's either since they have 'problems'
with heat also . . . . . . .maybe that explains all those fans they come with.

Joe Pyles
June 28th 03, 03:19 AM
ALL of the 5800 and the first run of the 5900 boards are made by
Nvidia's partner Flextronics. Individual vendors may specify board
color and cooling options. After the first run of the 5900 it will be
up to the individual manufacturer to make their own boards.
http://www.flextronics.com/

The link for the video about the 5800 fan is:

http://download.nvidia.com/downloads/nZone/cooling_fan.wmv

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:16:19 -0700, "Steve Simpson"
> wrote:

>>Nvidia produced a Video joking about the FX 5800 Ultra. Its actually pretty funny, and very
>honest on their part. I don't have a link, but its out >there. It might be found here
>somewhere. http://www.nvnews.net/
>
>Indeed.
>
>Oh, I just remembered something . . . . ATI produced a video saying, just joking of course, that
>only a fool would buy a Radion since the drivers don't work and never have . . yuck, yuck yuck.
>It was pretty funny to . . and you know I can't seem to remember that darn link, but I think you
>can find it here: www.internet.net
>
>>The 5800 is less expensive indeed, but has problems with heat. So much so that they need to
>underclock it during 2D applications. No it does >not make perfect sense to buy one, in fact,
>it makes no sense to buy one at all.
>
>
>You're right. Makes no sense to buy one of those Pentium 4's either since they have 'problems'
>with heat also . . . . . . .maybe that explains all those fans they come with.
>

Scott
June 28th 03, 06:53 AM
Umm...are you ok?

ATI drivers are fine.

Guess you never saw the video that Nvidia made. It was all over the =
place just a month ago. Nvidia news had a direct link to it, so maybe =
do some looking instead of sticking your foot in your mouth.

Pent IV don't have cooling issues.

"Steve Simpson" > wrote in message =
news:[email protected]
> >Nvidia produced a Video joking about the FX 5800 Ultra. Its actually =
pretty funny, and very
> honest on their part. I don't have a link, but its out >there. It =
might be found here
> somewhere. http://www.nvnews.net/
>=20
> Indeed.
>=20
> Oh, I just remembered something . . . . ATI produced a video saying, =
just joking of course, that
> only a fool would buy a Radion since the drivers don't work and never =
have . . yuck, yuck yuck.
> It was pretty funny to . . and you know I can't seem to remember that =
darn link, but I think you
> can find it here: www.internet.net
>=20
> >The 5800 is less expensive indeed, but has problems with heat. So =
much so that they need to
> underclock it during 2D applications. No it does >not make perfect =
sense to buy one, in fact,
> it makes no sense to buy one at all.
>=20
>=20
> You're right. Makes no sense to buy one of those Pentium 4's either =
since they have 'problems'
> with heat also . . . . . . .maybe that explains all those fans they =
come with.
>=20
>

Courseyauto
June 28th 03, 02:34 PM
<<
Nvidia made the chip and PCB, then ships it to vendors to be re-branded. =
They can then apply their own heat-sink and fan. I realize this was =
not past practice, but for the FX they adopted this policy to insure =
quality control.

Scott
>>

Can you supply a link to this information......

Courseyauto
June 28th 03, 02:38 PM
<<Do some reading, Nvidia is in charge of all 5900 manufacturing processes =
to insure quality. What does the color have to do with anything?
"Courseyauto" > wrote in message =
>>

Please supply the link so i can read about it ...............

Steve Simpson
June 28th 03, 04:49 PM
>Umm...are you ok?<

Do I look ok to you?

>ATI drivers are fine.<

Yeah right. And FX 5800 Ultra's are quiet . . . . some people are just too damn picky.

>Guess you never saw the video that Nvidia made. It was all over the place just a month ago.
Nvidia news had a direct link to it, so maybe do some looking instead of sticking your foot in
your mouth.<

If it was so easy to find, why couldn't you post a link instead of waiting for someone else to
and then repeating it as if you actually have a clue.

Posing a link to where someone might start 'searching' for something is pretty lame. "yeah, you
can find it here; www.google.com"

Sure, thanks a pant load, bud.

>Pent IV don't have cooling issues.<

Then why do they need that huge black thing with the big ass fan on it.

All processors have 'cooling issues', genius. The question is how to solve them. There just
isn't room on a graphics card for a HSF the size of what the Pentium 4 uses. Slap a 3ghz P4 on
an AGP card and see if some 'cooling issues' don't surface. You need to do some homework on
dissipation. Info here; www.yahoo.com

. . . . you're welcome . . . .

While you are looking that up, you might stumble across the fact that a large part of the
FX5800U 'cooling issue' was the DDR2 RAM so you may as well start whining about that too.

Just like the P4, the cooling was solved on the NV30 from a dissipation standpoint. The
difference is there just isn't room for a large (and therefore quiet) fan in the space available
on an add-in card . . . . or two.

Nvidia is certainly not without their sins, but they didn't get to dictate a totally new
motherboard design to accommodate their needs. Only Padre INTEL has that privilege. Remember
when Pentiums came on a plug in card? Now imagine hanging a P4 HSF off a Slot 1 Pentium3 and you
get the idea of what graphics cards are up against.

I don't do AMD, but from what I read, the high end of the aftermarket cooling solutions for
those chips can be pretty darn noisy.

Steve Simpson
June 28th 03, 05:05 PM
> The link for the video about the 5800 fan is:
>
> http://download.nvidia.com/downloads/nZone/cooling_fan.wmv
>

Thanks for the link.

Nvidia has made a lot of bad choices lately. So much so that it always seems they can't possibly
do anything dumber . . . and then they do. But if they actually made that video, they have
surpassed all of their monumentally stupid moves to date.

To my eye, that video seems like it is mocking any Nvidia customer who actually bought their
flagship product.

Yeah baby! That's a sound strategy. These guys definitely wrote the book on bad PR.

J.Clarke
June 28th 03, 05:55 PM
On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 08:49:34 -0700
"Steve Simpson" > wrote:

>
> >Umm...are you ok?<
>
> Do I look ok to you?
>
> >ATI drivers are fine.<
>
> Yeah right. And FX 5800 Ultra's are quiet . . . . some people are
> just too damn picky.
>
> >Guess you never saw the video that Nvidia made. It was all over the
> >place just a month ago.
> Nvidia news had a direct link to it, so maybe do some looking instead
> of sticking your foot in your mouth.<
>
> If it was so easy to find, why couldn't you post a link instead of
> waiting for someone else to and then repeating it as if you actually
> have a clue.
>
> Posing a link to where someone might start 'searching' for something
> is pretty lame. "yeah, you can find it here; www.google.com"
>
> Sure, thanks a pant load, bud.
>
> >Pent IV don't have cooling issues.<
>
> Then why do they need that huge black thing with the big ass fan on
> it.
>
> All processors have 'cooling issues', genius. The question is how to
> solve them. There just isn't room on a graphics card for a HSF the
> size of what the Pentium 4 uses. Slap a 3ghz P4 on an AGP card and see
> if some 'cooling issues' don't surface. You need to do some homework
> on dissipation. Info here; www.yahoo.com
>
> . . . . you're welcome . . . .
>
> While you are looking that up, you might stumble across the fact that
> a large part of the FX5800U 'cooling issue' was the DDR2 RAM so you
> may as well start whining about that too.
>
> Just like the P4, the cooling was solved on the NV30 from a
> dissipation standpoint. The difference is there just isn't room for a
> large (and therefore quiet) fan in the space available on an add-in
> card . . . . or two.
>
> Nvidia is certainly not without their sins, but they didn't get to
> dictate a totally new motherboard design to accommodate their needs.
> Only Padre INTEL has that privilege. Remember when Pentiums came on a
> plug in card? Now imagine hanging a P4 HSF off a Slot 1 Pentium3 and
> you get the idea of what graphics cards are up against.
>
> I don't do AMD, but from what I read, the high end of the aftermarket
> cooling solutions for those chips can be pretty darn noisy.

The _high_ end, Vapochill and Prometeia, are actually fairly quiet (ca
35 dBA). It's the air-cooling setups the overclockers like to use that
get loud.


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J.Clarke
June 30th 03, 01:04 PM
On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:32:16 GMT
carchadon > wrote:

> No life AND never tried the card.......speaking from reviews and
> 3dmark scores- I guarantee that anyone would not fail to be impressed
> at what the card can do in REAL WORLD situations.................

I have never been particularly impressed by what _any_ video board can
do in REAL WORLD situations. Maybe I'm just expecting too much.

> "[NAC]Nubi" wrote:
>
> > man...are you guys in the gpu industry or just *cough* no life? i
> > dont mean this as a insult thou...
> >
> > "Courseyauto" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > <<
> > > Just in case you can't read the other posts : =
> > > http://download.nvidia.com/downloads/nZone/cooling_fan.wmv
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > Can't read that one either..........
>


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

carchadon
June 30th 03, 02:32 PM
No life AND never tried the card.......speaking from reviews and 3dmark scores
- I guarantee that anyone would not fail to be impressed at what the card can
do in REAL WORLD situations.................

"[NAC]Nubi" wrote:

> man...are you guys in the gpu industry or just *cough* no life? i dont mean
> this as a insult thou...
>
> "Courseyauto" > wrote in message
> ...
> > <<
> > Just in case you can't read the other posts : =
> > http://download.nvidia.com/downloads/nZone/cooling_fan.wmv
> >
> > >>
> >
> > Can't read that one either..........

Ron Merts
July 1st 03, 07:08 AM
No doubt! I have seen the 5800 cards drop almost $200 in a little over 10
weeks. I own a FX 5800 and don't notice the fan - probably because I leave
the cover on the PC and it's under my desk - but it does give a hefty
performance boost, and it has been ultra stable. If you find one for $300
(USD) or so I'd recommend one. I even have mine overcloced to 490Mhz core
and 995Mhz Memory with no problems. Not that I generally recommend
overclocking but I wanted to see just what the 5800 would handle. I was
running it at 500Mhz core and 1000Mhz memory but backed it down so as not to
push the GPU to it's absolute limits. Except for paying a lot more than
what they sell for now I have not been disappointed at all.

Ron

"b00gjuice" > wrote in message
...
> > > I think you should have taken a pass on the 5800 because it was
> basically a mistake to ever
> > release it.
>
> I disagree, I have the 5800 Ultra and it is a great card, yes the fan is
> loud but if you do some creative placement of your PC it isn't so bad. It
> wasn't that long ago; if you where an overclocker, that your PC was that
> loud anyway. Plus, Nvidia has great drivers and you don't have to worry if
a
> game more than a year old, or maybe wasn't that popular will run well or
> not, (unlike ATI).
>
> I think it would have been successful at retail but Nvidia got spooked
cause
> all the fan sites that tested with the case covers off trashed it for the
> noise. Anyone that can pick up a 5800 Ultra or even a 5800 for a smokin
> price (much cheaper than a 5900) will be very happy. So if stores start
> selling 5800's for a loss just to get rid of them then this may be an
> unforseen opportunity for lots of Nvidia fans.
>
> "Steve Simpson" > wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]
> >
> > > Even Nvidia jokes about the 5800 and admits its not a good card.
> Return it and get the 5900
> > before its too late.
> >
> >
> > Nvidia's CEO said it was 'not successful'. Please provide a link to
Nvidia
> 'joking' about it
> > being a 'bad card'.
> >
> > The chip was 'released' as a Quadro for professional use before the
> 'dustbuster' debacle on the
> > consumer cards ever surfaced.
> >
> > The 5900 is the same chip with a wider memory interface and an improved
> FPU.
> >
> > If the 5800 is available and significantly less expensive that the 5900
it
> makes perfect sense
> > to buy one.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>