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View Full Version : Stonewalling: (Re: Ooops... Nvidia was and is cheating on 3dmark03 after all)


Toby Groves
June 22nd 03, 07:51 PM
In article >, Roger
Squires > writes
> And yes, ATI has also cheated, going back to 3dmark2001 days, as has
>Nvidia. What is remarkable now is the scope and magnitude of Nvidia's
>cheating. The aggressiveness of Nvidia's cheating policy is stunning, and
>it is apparent they are quite willing to sacrifice image quality to get
>higher scores.

Agreed.

I believe that in the case of the NV30, what was eventually launched as
the 5800 non-Ultra was originally to have been the fastest card, but
nVidia realised it wasn't fast enough to beat the 9700, so they produced
what is effectively an overclocked version of it, requiring ludicrous
cooling measures, and launched that as the 5800 Ultra, just so they
could beat the 9700 in some tests and not look complete fools.

ATI then launched the 9800, regaining the overall lead and totally
stealing any "thunder" that nVidia had left, so nVidia basically
resorted to blatant cheating to make their product look better in
benchmarks.

They probably figured they'd get found out after a while, but at least
it would buy them some time until they could get NV35 out the door. I
don't think they counted on the story being quite this big when it did
finally break.

My last three graphics cards have been nVidia based, but I have now
switched to ATI, partly due to nVidia's indefensible actions in this
matter. It will take a lot to get me back as a customer, and I believe
many others will feel the same.
--
Toby

tk
June 23rd 03, 01:51 AM
"Toby Groves" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Roger
> Squires > writes
> > And yes, ATI has also cheated, going back to 3dmark2001 days, as has
> >Nvidia. What is remarkable now is the scope and magnitude of Nvidia's
> >cheating. The aggressiveness of Nvidia's cheating policy is stunning,
and
> >it is apparent they are quite willing to sacrifice image quality to get
> >higher scores.
>
> Agreed.
>
> I believe that in the case of the NV30, what was eventually launched as
> the 5800 non-Ultra was originally to have been the fastest card, but
> nVidia realised it wasn't fast enough to beat the 9700, so they produced
> what is effectively an overclocked version of it, requiring ludicrous
> cooling measures, and launched that as the 5800 Ultra, just so they
> could beat the 9700 in some tests and not look complete fools.
>
> ATI then launched the 9800, regaining the overall lead and totally
> stealing any "thunder" that nVidia had left, so nVidia basically
> resorted to blatant cheating to make their product look better in
> benchmarks.
>
> They probably figured they'd get found out after a while, but at least
> it would buy them some time until they could get NV35 out the door. I
> don't think they counted on the story being quite this big when it did
> finally break.
>
> My last three graphics cards have been nVidia based, but I have now
> switched to ATI, partly due to nVidia's indefensible actions in this
> matter. It will take a lot to get me back as a customer, and I believe
> many others will feel the same.
> --
> Toby

Good for you now go tell it to the ATI group where someone gives a ****.

J.Clarke
June 23rd 03, 04:21 AM
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:51:02 GMT
"tk" > wrote:

>
> "Toby Groves" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > Roger Squires > writes
> > > And yes, ATI has also cheated, going back to 3dmark2001 days,
> > > as has
> > >Nvidia. What is remarkable now is the scope and magnitude of
> > >Nvidia's cheating. The aggressiveness of Nvidia's cheating policy
> > >is stunning,
> and
> > >it is apparent they are quite willing to sacrifice image quality to
> > >get higher scores.
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > I believe that in the case of the NV30, what was eventually launched
> > as the 5800 non-Ultra was originally to have been the fastest card,
> > but nVidia realised it wasn't fast enough to beat the 9700, so they
> > produced what is effectively an overclocked version of it, requiring
> > ludicrous cooling measures, and launched that as the 5800 Ultra,
> > just so they could beat the 9700 in some tests and not look complete
> > fools.
> >
> > ATI then launched the 9800, regaining the overall lead and totally
> > stealing any "thunder" that nVidia had left, so nVidia basically
> > resorted to blatant cheating to make their product look better in
> > benchmarks.
> >
> > They probably figured they'd get found out after a while, but at
> > least it would buy them some time until they could get NV35 out the
> > door. I don't think they counted on the story being quite this big
> > when it did finally break.
> >
> > My last three graphics cards have been nVidia based, but I have now
> > switched to ATI, partly due to nVidia's indefensible actions in this
> > matter. It will take a lot to get me back as a customer, and I
> > believe many others will feel the same.
> > --
> > Toby
>
> Good for you now go tell it to the ATI group where someone gives a
> ****.

He did. Please note that this is crossposted.
>
>


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

bp
June 23rd 03, 02:45 PM
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:51:02 GMT, "tk" > wrote:

>
>"Toby Groves" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >, Roger
>> Squires > writes
>> > And yes, ATI has also cheated, going back to 3dmark2001 days, as has
>> >Nvidia. What is remarkable now is the scope and magnitude of Nvidia's
>> >cheating. The aggressiveness of Nvidia's cheating policy is stunning,
>and
>> >it is apparent they are quite willing to sacrifice image quality to get
>> >higher scores.
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> I believe that in the case of the NV30, what was eventually launched as
>> the 5800 non-Ultra was originally to have been the fastest card, but
>> nVidia realised it wasn't fast enough to beat the 9700, so they produced
>> what is effectively an overclocked version of it, requiring ludicrous
>> cooling measures, and launched that as the 5800 Ultra, just so they
>> could beat the 9700 in some tests and not look complete fools.
>>
>> ATI then launched the 9800, regaining the overall lead and totally
>> stealing any "thunder" that nVidia had left, so nVidia basically
>> resorted to blatant cheating to make their product look better in
>> benchmarks.
>>
>> They probably figured they'd get found out after a while, but at least
>> it would buy them some time until they could get NV35 out the door. I
>> don't think they counted on the story being quite this big when it did
>> finally break.
>>
>> My last three graphics cards have been nVidia based, but I have now
>> switched to ATI, partly due to nVidia's indefensible actions in this
>> matter. It will take a lot to get me back as a customer, and I believe
>> many others will feel the same.
>> --
>> Toby
>
>Good for you now go tell it to the ATI group where someone gives a ****.
>
check the groups list he did post it to ATI loser.

bp
June 24th 03, 05:33 AM
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:45:30 GMT, "tk" > wrote:

>> >Good for you now go tell it to the ATI group where someone gives a ****.
>> >
>> check the groups list he did post it to ATI loser.
>
>Thanks dickwad.
>
Thanks for showing everyone I was correct.