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Dan Brill
May 19th 04, 05:02 PM
Hi,

I have a Gigabyte GA-8KNXP (Rev 2.0) with an Intel P4 3E ('Prescott'/90nm)
CPU. The thermal spec, according to Intel documentation, for this chip is
69.1 Celcius. At power-up the CPU temperature (measured using the EasyTune
utility) is about 56/57 degrees, rising to 65/66 degress under a heavy-load.
The problem is that, in the latter scenario, the fan (standard Intel
heatsink/fan combo) gets revved up to 5000+ RPM which is *extremely loud*.
Even, as I write this, the temperature is measured at 58 degress and the fan
is rotating at 4200RPM (when I switched it on this morning it was reading
the same temperature but the fan was only spinning at 2600RPM) - still loud
enough to be annoying. Nothing in the machine is overclocked, by the way.

Oddly, I put the system together about a month ago and this has only begun
happening in the last week or so! I emailed Gigabyte product support and
they replied:

"HI This is a strange one!,No definate answers for you im afraid. It"s one
of those cases that would need to be physically checked. Please return to
your dealer for 2nd opinion or RMA"

Fair enough but a little terse - I wondered if anyone had any opinions as to
what could be causing this situation and how to remedy it *before* I strip
down the machine again and send off for a replacement motherboard. Is it
definitely the motherboard that is the problem even?

As an aside, why can't I adjust the CPU Fan Setting on the Smart-Fan tab of
the EasyTune utility? This section, to the left of that for the "N/B Chipset
Fan Controller", is disabled.

Thanks.

-dan

Richard Dower
May 20th 04, 12:34 AM
Remove the fan, replace it with a passive cooler or a Northpole.

www.sidewindercomputers.com


"Dan Brill" > wrote in message
.. .
> Hi,
>
> I have a Gigabyte GA-8KNXP (Rev 2.0) with an Intel P4 3E ('Prescott'/90nm)
> CPU. The thermal spec, according to Intel documentation, for this chip is
> 69.1 Celcius. At power-up the CPU temperature (measured using the EasyTune
> utility) is about 56/57 degrees, rising to 65/66 degress under a
heavy-load.
> The problem is that, in the latter scenario, the fan (standard Intel
> heatsink/fan combo) gets revved up to 5000+ RPM which is *extremely loud*.
> Even, as I write this, the temperature is measured at 58 degress and the
fan
> is rotating at 4200RPM (when I switched it on this morning it was reading
> the same temperature but the fan was only spinning at 2600RPM) - still
loud
> enough to be annoying. Nothing in the machine is overclocked, by the way.
>
> Oddly, I put the system together about a month ago and this has only begun
> happening in the last week or so! I emailed Gigabyte product support and
> they replied:
>
> "HI This is a strange one!,No definate answers for you im afraid. It"s one
> of those cases that would need to be physically checked. Please return to
> your dealer for 2nd opinion or RMA"
>
> Fair enough but a little terse - I wondered if anyone had any opinions as
to
> what could be causing this situation and how to remedy it *before* I strip
> down the machine again and send off for a replacement motherboard. Is it
> definitely the motherboard that is the problem even?
>
> As an aside, why can't I adjust the CPU Fan Setting on the Smart-Fan tab
of
> the EasyTune utility? This section, to the left of that for the "N/B
Chipset
> Fan Controller", is disabled.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -dan
>
>

Kilgore Trout Jr
May 20th 04, 12:44 AM
Uninstall EZ Tune and see what happens. It has caused a variety of weird
problems on many machines. Also try disabling the "smart fan" option in the
BIOS.

"Dan Brill" > wrote in message
.. .
> Hi,
>
> I have a Gigabyte GA-8KNXP (Rev 2.0) with an Intel P4 3E ('Prescott'/90nm)
> CPU. The thermal spec, according to Intel documentation, for this chip is
> 69.1 Celcius. At power-up the CPU temperature (measured using the EasyTune
> utility) is about 56/57 degrees, rising to 65/66 degress under a
heavy-load.
> The problem is that, in the latter scenario, the fan (standard Intel
> heatsink/fan combo) gets revved up to 5000+ RPM which is *extremely loud*.
> Even, as I write this, the temperature is measured at 58 degress and the
fan
> is rotating at 4200RPM (when I switched it on this morning it was reading
> the same temperature but the fan was only spinning at 2600RPM) - still
loud
> enough to be annoying. Nothing in the machine is overclocked, by the way.
>
> Oddly, I put the system together about a month ago and this has only begun
> happening in the last week or so! I emailed Gigabyte product support and
> they replied:
>
> "HI This is a strange one!,No definate answers for you im afraid. It"s one
> of those cases that would need to be physically checked. Please return to
> your dealer for 2nd opinion or RMA"
>
> Fair enough but a little terse - I wondered if anyone had any opinions as
to
> what could be causing this situation and how to remedy it *before* I strip
> down the machine again and send off for a replacement motherboard. Is it
> definitely the motherboard that is the problem even?
>
> As an aside, why can't I adjust the CPU Fan Setting on the Smart-Fan tab
of
> the EasyTune utility? This section, to the left of that for the "N/B
Chipset
> Fan Controller", is disabled.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -dan
>
>

Dan Brill
May 20th 04, 12:47 AM
Hi,

Certainly (ultimately) this would be a possibility but I'm presuming that if
Intel are supplying the heatsink/fan combo then, at least in their opinion,
under normal circumstances it is sufficient. Anyway, I don't really know the
root cause of the problem (Gigabyte product support weren't entirely
helpful). If I buy another fan then the issue turns out to be with the
motherboard then I really would be throwing good money after bad, no?

-dan

"Richard Dower" > wrote in message
...
> Remove the fan, replace it with a passive cooler or a Northpole.
>
> www.sidewindercomputers.com

Dan Brill
May 20th 04, 11:22 PM
Thanks for the suggestion - I tried it but to no avail.

Ultimately, after further investigation, I believe that this problem is more
simple than expected. Unfortunately, this is to diagnose but not to solve.

As I write this, the CPU temperature is about 65/66 Celcius. The temperature
at the hub of the CPU fan is 45 degrees, and that of the air about an inch
away from the hub is 41 degrees (generally about 3 or 4 degrees less). If I
remove the side panel, the air temperature inside the case immediately (in
less than five seconds) drops by at least 10 degrees (and the fan - the
original apparent problem - slows down).

It seems to me that there is just too great a build up of hot air in this
area of the chassis and that it can't be exhausted quickly enough to
maintain a reasonable internal temperature. Intel states that systems should
be integrated in such a way as to maintain a temperature of 38 Celsius or
lower. However, there must come a point where this is impossible due to the
extremes of heat emitted by the processor.

Ultimately, I wonder what steps I can take to combat the situation. I could
replace the Intel supplied heatsink/fan combo (probably voiding my warranty)
but I'd rather not do this since the one they supply should, at least, be
'fit for the purpose'. The case is a high-quality Antec aluminium chassis
with two 120mm fans (an intake and an exhaust located close to the CPU). The
power supply is an Antec TruePower 430W which has two 80mm exhaust fans. The
graphics card (ATI Radeon 9800 Pro) has its own fan, as does the North
Bridge, and the DSP2 riser card which comes with the motherboard (GA-8KNXP
Rev 2.0).

The case is fairly clear and unobstructed. My only reservation is that the
intake fan is blowing the heat from the 10,000RPM SATA hard drive RAID array
into the case rather than exhausting it - this is because of the 'standard'
setup of a lower-front intake and a upper-rear exhaust.

I really don't know what else I can do. My wife's computer is identical
(apart from having two 7200RPM IDE hard drives forming its RAID array) but
with an AMD Athlon XP 2800+ instead of the P4 3E and runs a full ten degrees
(or more) cooler! Same case, same fans, same pretty much everything - the
'smart' fans in this chassis don't even need to spin much of the time in
order to maintain the temperature (it really is whisper quiet).

Any additional ideas or suggestions?

Cheers.

-dan

"Kilgore Trout Jr" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Uninstall EZ Tune and see what happens. It has caused a variety of weird
> problems on many machines. Also try disabling the "smart fan" option in
the
> BIOS.

Tim
May 21st 04, 03:40 AM
Dan,

Firstly, Intel has a problem on their hands and have recognised this. They
aren't about to shout it from the roof tops, but it is well known. P4E chips
run hot! Simple as that. It has been reported that Intel have cancelled 2
developement programs and changed direction quite drastically in the last
few weeks.

I would replace the Intel supplied heatsink. In the past many installed
Zalman ZNPS7000 either ALCU or CU. The latter is pure copper, heavy and
doesn't really do a much greater job than the former. The Zalmans are very
quiet heatsinks. There is an issue with installing a Zalman on an 8KNXP -
they don't fit unless you either remove the fan from the DPS, or remove the
DPS. However I can no longer recommend the removal of the DPS as it would
appear that its purpose is to meet the extended power requirements of the
Prescott CPU's. The fan on the DPS may still be able to be removed, but
since the DPS now has a real job to do, it too may be needed.

So, in short I can't recommend a replacement heatsink (I have Zalman
ZNPS7000 ALCU with NB32J on the northbridge - 8KNXP rev 1).

Case ventilation is important as is cooling disc drives. Do not sacrifice
adequate cooling of your disc drives for anything else. If you do you may
find that they run excessively hot and fail prematurely. Someone posted
recently that their disc drives had become too hot to touch.

You basically cover areas of deficiency in the design of the ATX cases that
I aired quite some time ago - they are inadequate for needs now.

It is important to ensure that you maintain good air circulation through the
case - a simple test is to take the side off & if the CPU temp drops
significantly then there is inadequate air flow. Rounded cables for IDE help
in this regard. Ensure that air flows correctly IE you are not trynig to
suck out the front and the read, are not pumping in the rear and exhausting
at the rear at the same time (circular air channels are to be avoided). In
In the Front, Out the Rear.

So, to conclude: monitor closely, try taking the side off the case, get to
know where and what needs cooling & what doesn't. Research a replacement
heatsink for the CPU keeping in mind Intel weight limit recommendations (the
Zalman ALCU referred to is at the limit, the copper is over the limit). Ask
around and read reviews...

- Tim






"Dan Brill" > wrote in message
.. .
> Thanks for the suggestion - I tried it but to no avail.
>
> Ultimately, after further investigation, I believe that this problem is
> more
> simple than expected. Unfortunately, this is to diagnose but not to solve.
>
> As I write this, the CPU temperature is about 65/66 Celcius. The
> temperature
> at the hub of the CPU fan is 45 degrees, and that of the air about an inch
> away from the hub is 41 degrees (generally about 3 or 4 degrees less). If
> I
> remove the side panel, the air temperature inside the case immediately (in
> less than five seconds) drops by at least 10 degrees (and the fan - the
> original apparent problem - slows down).
>
> It seems to me that there is just too great a build up of hot air in this
> area of the chassis and that it can't be exhausted quickly enough to
> maintain a reasonable internal temperature. Intel states that systems
> should
> be integrated in such a way as to maintain a temperature of 38 Celsius or
> lower. However, there must come a point where this is impossible due to
> the
> extremes of heat emitted by the processor.
>
> Ultimately, I wonder what steps I can take to combat the situation. I
> could
> replace the Intel supplied heatsink/fan combo (probably voiding my
> warranty)
> but I'd rather not do this since the one they supply should, at least, be
> 'fit for the purpose'. The case is a high-quality Antec aluminium chassis
> with two 120mm fans (an intake and an exhaust located close to the CPU).
> The
> power supply is an Antec TruePower 430W which has two 80mm exhaust fans.
> The
> graphics card (ATI Radeon 9800 Pro) has its own fan, as does the North
> Bridge, and the DSP2 riser card which comes with the motherboard (GA-8KNXP
> Rev 2.0).
>
> The case is fairly clear and unobstructed. My only reservation is that the
> intake fan is blowing the heat from the 10,000RPM SATA hard drive RAID
> array
> into the case rather than exhausting it - this is because of the
> 'standard'
> setup of a lower-front intake and a upper-rear exhaust.
>
> I really don't know what else I can do. My wife's computer is identical
> (apart from having two 7200RPM IDE hard drives forming its RAID array) but
> with an AMD Athlon XP 2800+ instead of the P4 3E and runs a full ten
> degrees
> (or more) cooler! Same case, same fans, same pretty much everything - the
> 'smart' fans in this chassis don't even need to spin much of the time in
> order to maintain the temperature (it really is whisper quiet).
>
> Any additional ideas or suggestions?
>
> Cheers.
>
> -dan
>
> "Kilgore Trout Jr" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>> Uninstall EZ Tune and see what happens. It has caused a variety of weird
>> problems on many machines. Also try disabling the "smart fan" option in
> the
>> BIOS.
>
>

Dan Brill
May 21st 04, 04:03 PM
Hi Tim,

Thanks for your suggestions and comments.

I'll consider replacing the heatsink/fan with a 3rd party model. I confess,
however, that the warranty implications will remain a concern. I'm also in
an ongoing dialogue with Intel tech support - for better or for worse - so
I'll also be paying close attention to what they have to say.

I'm already following most of your other points with regard to airflow (I
could replace the IDE cables used for the CD/DVD drives with rounded ones
though, obviously, the SATA cables already used by the hard drives are far
less obstructive). I'll also monitor the temperature of the hard drives - I
don't believe that they are running particularly hot though I'd have to know
what constitutes 'particularly hot' in the case of these particular models
(36.7 GB WD Raptors).

I'm a little concerned at the moment about the amount of heat being given
off by the power supply. I have a probe on the hub of the CPU fan and one on
the case of the PSU. The latter always appears to be about 5 Celsius warmer
than the former (at the moment the CPU fan probe is reading 39 degrees, the
power supply one 44 degrees). This seems to continue to rise in linear
fashion as the CPU (currently 60 degrees) and surrounding temperatures rise.
I wonder if this could be contributing significantly to the problems I'm
experiencing?

-dan

"Tim" > wrote in message ...
> Dan,
>
> Firstly, Intel has a problem on their hands and have recognised this. They
> aren't about to shout it from the roof tops, but it is well known. P4E
chips
> run hot! Simple as that. It has been reported that Intel have cancelled 2
> developement programs and changed direction quite drastically in the last
> few weeks.
>
> I would replace the Intel supplied heatsink. In the past many installed
> Zalman ZNPS7000 either ALCU or CU. The latter is pure copper, heavy and
> doesn't really do a much greater job than the former. The Zalmans are very
> quiet heatsinks. There is an issue with installing a Zalman on an 8KNXP -
> they don't fit unless you either remove the fan from the DPS, or remove
the
> DPS. However I can no longer recommend the removal of the DPS as it would
> appear that its purpose is to meet the extended power requirements of the
> Prescott CPU's. The fan on the DPS may still be able to be removed, but
> since the DPS now has a real job to do, it too may be needed.
>
> So, in short I can't recommend a replacement heatsink (I have Zalman
> ZNPS7000 ALCU with NB32J on the northbridge - 8KNXP rev 1).
>
> Case ventilation is important as is cooling disc drives. Do not sacrifice
> adequate cooling of your disc drives for anything else. If you do you may
> find that they run excessively hot and fail prematurely. Someone posted
> recently that their disc drives had become too hot to touch.
>
> You basically cover areas of deficiency in the design of the ATX cases
that
> I aired quite some time ago - they are inadequate for needs now.
>
> It is important to ensure that you maintain good air circulation through
the
> case - a simple test is to take the side off & if the CPU temp drops
> significantly then there is inadequate air flow. Rounded cables for IDE
help
> in this regard. Ensure that air flows correctly IE you are not trynig to
> suck out the front and the read, are not pumping in the rear and
exhausting
> at the rear at the same time (circular air channels are to be avoided). In
> In the Front, Out the Rear.
>
> So, to conclude: monitor closely, try taking the side off the case, get to
> know where and what needs cooling & what doesn't. Research a replacement
> heatsink for the CPU keeping in mind Intel weight limit recommendations
(the
> Zalman ALCU referred to is at the limit, the copper is over the limit).
Ask
> around and read reviews...
>
> - Tim