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Kevin Lawton
April 5th 04, 12:59 PM
Please, can somebody help me with this ?
Gigabyte GA-7VRXP + AMD XP2400 + 2 x 256 Mb DDR2700.
The above runs various versions of DOS, from either floppy or hard drive (60
Gb Seagate), fine - no problem at all.
If I try to install Windows 2000 it all seems to be going well until I get
to the point where it should be 'Starting to run Windows for the first
time' - and it just hangs - forever :-)
I have tried building a fresh install on a Duron 1200 and then swapping the
hard drive over - same problem: hangs after the 'starting Windows' progress
stripe has completed.
I've tried swapping both memory and motherboard (both GA-7VRXP Rev1.1) and
still the same problem.
This is driving me crazy !
Does anyone have any ideas on what I should try next ?
Any help would be very gratefully appreciated.
TIA,
Kevin.

John7
April 5th 04, 04:46 PM
Hi Kevin,

Turn virus / bootsector protection off in BIOS until install finished.
It seems the lockup occurs when the videocard is about to go into graphics
mode.
First, try defensive settings in BIOS.
Second, try swapping the card.
When graphic mode turns on, the card draws more current.
What is the wattage of your power supply?
You'll need at least 300W, better 350W.
Tell us more about your system.

Installing windows on another mainboard, then swapping harddrive
to other mainboard won't work.

HTH,
John7


PS: to protect yourself from spam, don't post your email address here
or insert something like REMOVE.



"Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
...
> Please, can somebody help me with this ?
> Gigabyte GA-7VRXP + AMD XP2400 + 2 x 256 Mb DDR2700.
> The above runs various versions of DOS, from either floppy or hard drive
(60
> Gb Seagate), fine - no problem at all.
> If I try to install Windows 2000 it all seems to be going well until I get
> to the point where it should be 'Starting to run Windows for the first
> time' - and it just hangs - forever :-)
> I have tried building a fresh install on a Duron 1200 and then swapping
the
> hard drive over - same problem: hangs after the 'starting Windows'
progress
> stripe has completed.
> I've tried swapping both memory and motherboard (both GA-7VRXP Rev1.1) and
> still the same problem.
> This is driving me crazy !
> Does anyone have any ideas on what I should try next ?
> Any help would be very gratefully appreciated.
> TIA,
> Kevin.
>
>
>

Kevin Lawton
April 5th 04, 05:13 PM
Thanks, John.
BIOS virus protection is OFF.
Have tried various BIOS settings for stability and not 'pushing my luck'
with speed.
The only graphics cards I have available at the moment are all Matrox ones -
G400 and G450 - hardly the most demanding. I could buy a cheap one tomorrow
if it would help (suggestions ?).
330w power supply. Only one HD is the system so far, no CDRW or DVD yet,
SCSI card and drives not installed yet.
Could go out and buy a 500w PSU tomorrow if that is the problem, but
wouldn't have thought it was necessary.
XP2400 + GA-7VRXP + 512 Mb DDR + G400 + 60 Gb HD + floppy. That's it so far.
Anything else I could try before I have to throw money at this problem ?
Thanks,
Kevin.

John7 > wrote:
| Hi Kevin,
|
| Turn virus / bootsector protection off in BIOS until install finished.
| It seems the lockup occurs when the videocard is about to go into
| graphics mode.
| First, try defensive settings in BIOS.
| Second, try swapping the card.
| When graphic mode turns on, the card draws more current.
| What is the wattage of your power supply?
| You'll need at least 300W, better 350W.
| Tell us more about your system.
|
| Installing windows on another mainboard, then swapping harddrive
| to other mainboard won't work.
|
| HTH,
| John7
|
|
| PS: to protect yourself from spam, don't post your email address here
| or insert something like REMOVE.
|
|
|
| "Kevin Lawton" <> wrote in message
| ...
|| Please, can somebody help me with this ?
|| Gigabyte GA-7VRXP + AMD XP2400 + 2 x 256 Mb DDR2700.
|| The above runs various versions of DOS, from either floppy or hard
|| drive (60 Gb Seagate), fine - no problem at all.
|| If I try to install Windows 2000 it all seems to be going well until
|| I get to the point where it should be 'Starting to run Windows for
|| the first time' - and it just hangs - forever :-)
|| I have tried building a fresh install on a Duron 1200 and then
|| swapping the hard drive over - same problem: hangs after the
|| 'starting Windows' progress stripe has completed.
|| I've tried swapping both memory and motherboard (both GA-7VRXP
|| Rev1.1) and still the same problem.
|| This is driving me crazy !
|| Does anyone have any ideas on what I should try next ?
|| Any help would be very gratefully appreciated.
|| TIA,
|| Kevin.

John7
April 5th 04, 11:27 PM
Hi Kevin,

Indeed, Matrox G400 and G450 are not demanding.
330W PSU seems sufficient.
If present in bios, Top Performance should be off.
(you may have to press CTRL+F1 in bios main menu first).
Have you tried running with one DIMM only (either one).
If DIMM's are OEM, try branded ones.
Create a MS WinDiag floppy (see MS KB) to have them checked
or try www.simmtester.com
Check out MS KB article 315396 (keeps you off the streets for a while)

HTH,
John7




"Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks, John.
> BIOS virus protection is OFF.
> Have tried various BIOS settings for stability and not 'pushing my luck'
> with speed.
> The only graphics cards I have available at the moment are all Matrox
ones -
> G400 and G450 - hardly the most demanding. I could buy a cheap one
tomorrow
> if it would help (suggestions ?).
> 330w power supply. Only one HD is the system so far, no CDRW or DVD yet,
> SCSI card and drives not installed yet.
> Could go out and buy a 500w PSU tomorrow if that is the problem, but
> wouldn't have thought it was necessary.
> XP2400 + GA-7VRXP + 512 Mb DDR + G400 + 60 Gb HD + floppy. That's it so
far.
> Anything else I could try before I have to throw money at this problem ?
> Thanks,
> Kevin.
>
> John7 > wrote:
> | Hi Kevin,
> |
> | Turn virus / bootsector protection off in BIOS until install finished.
> | It seems the lockup occurs when the videocard is about to go into
> | graphics mode.
> | First, try defensive settings in BIOS.
> | Second, try swapping the card.
> | When graphic mode turns on, the card draws more current.
> | What is the wattage of your power supply?
> | You'll need at least 300W, better 350W.
> | Tell us more about your system.
> |
> | Installing windows on another mainboard, then swapping harddrive
> | to other mainboard won't work.
> |
> | HTH,
> | John7
> |
> |
> | PS: to protect yourself from spam, don't post your email address here
> | or insert something like REMOVE.
> |
> |
> |
> | "Kevin Lawton" <> wrote in message
> | ...
> || Please, can somebody help me with this ?
> || Gigabyte GA-7VRXP + AMD XP2400 + 2 x 256 Mb DDR2700.
> || The above runs various versions of DOS, from either floppy or hard
> || drive (60 Gb Seagate), fine - no problem at all.
> || If I try to install Windows 2000 it all seems to be going well until
> || I get to the point where it should be 'Starting to run Windows for
> || the first time' - and it just hangs - forever :-)
> || I have tried building a fresh install on a Duron 1200 and then
> || swapping the hard drive over - same problem: hangs after the
> || 'starting Windows' progress stripe has completed.
> || I've tried swapping both memory and motherboard (both GA-7VRXP
> || Rev1.1) and still the same problem.
> || This is driving me crazy !
> || Does anyone have any ideas on what I should try next ?
> || Any help would be very gratefully appreciated.
> || TIA,
> || Kevin.
>
>

Kevin Lawton
April 6th 04, 01:36 AM
Thanks again John.
Top performance is off in the BIOS.
I have started with defalt BIOS settings and disabled hardware I don't need
to start with - sound, LAN, USB, RAID.
I have tried various combinations of DIMMs - one, two or three - all branded
Samsung, Crucial or Exact. Various memory test software has passed them as
okay.
Had a look at the MS knowledge base article, but mostly it discusses
situations where Windows 2000 has booted up sucessfully on the machine once
before.
Also looked at the MS 'Windows 2000 Startup' newsgroup. Similar problems
have cropped up occasionally before, but never been properly explained or
resolved.
I am gradually coming to the conclusion that Windows 2000 and the GA-7VRXP
m/board don't get along - but have seen no reports to confirm or deny that
as yet. If so, then it would suggest that there is something on the m/board
which the default Windows 2000 drivers from the CD foul-up so badly wih that
the op system hangs - seems unlikely, but what else is left ? Other VIA
chipset m/boards I use are fine.
This would leave me with only two options - either buy a different m/board
which Windows 2000 will install and run on, or buy and install Windows XP in
the hope that it will work properly. I'm not really happy with either of
these options as I have two of these m/boards - I'm upgrading both of my
machines - and I don't really want the bloat and expense of Windows XP
compared to the relatively fast and lean Windows 2000 which has been very
reliable for about four years.
Thanks for your help so far - have you any idea what I can do next ?
Cheers,
Kevin.

John7 > wrote:
| Hi Kevin,
|
| Indeed, Matrox G400 and G450 are not demanding.
| 330W PSU seems sufficient.
| If present in bios, Top Performance should be off.
| (you may have to press CTRL+F1 in bios main menu first).
| Have you tried running with one DIMM only (either one).
| If DIMM's are OEM, try branded ones.
| Create a MS WinDiag floppy (see MS KB) to have them checked
| or try www.simmtester.com
| Check out MS KB article 315396 (keeps you off the streets for a while)
|
| HTH,
| John7
|
| "Kevin Lawton" <> wrote in message
| ...
|| Thanks, John.
|| BIOS virus protection is OFF.
|| Have tried various BIOS settings for stability and not 'pushing my
|| luck' with speed.
|| The only graphics cards I have available at the moment are all
|| Matrox ones - G400 and G450 - hardly the most demanding. I could buy
|| a cheap one tomorrow if it would help (suggestions ?).
|| 330w power supply. Only one HD is the system so far, no CDRW or DVD
|| yet, SCSI card and drives not installed yet.
|| Could go out and buy a 500w PSU tomorrow if that is the problem, but
|| wouldn't have thought it was necessary.
|| XP2400 + GA-7VRXP + 512 Mb DDR + G400 + 60 Gb HD + floppy. That's it
|| so far. Anything else I could try before I have to throw money at
|| this problem ? Thanks,
|| Kevin.
||
|| John7 > wrote:
||| Hi Kevin,
|||
||| Turn virus / bootsector protection off in BIOS until install
||| finished. It seems the lockup occurs when the videocard is about to
||| go into graphics mode.
||| First, try defensive settings in BIOS.
||| Second, try swapping the card.
||| When graphic mode turns on, the card draws more current.
||| What is the wattage of your power supply?
||| You'll need at least 300W, better 350W.
||| Tell us more about your system.
|||
||| Installing windows on another mainboard, then swapping harddrive
||| to other mainboard won't work.
|||
||| HTH,
||| John7
|||
|||
||| PS: to protect yourself from spam, don't post your email address
||| here or insert something like REMOVE.
|||
|||
|||
||| "Kevin Lawton" <> wrote in message
||| ...
|||| Please, can somebody help me with this ?
|||| Gigabyte GA-7VRXP + AMD XP2400 + 2 x 256 Mb DDR2700.
|||| The above runs various versions of DOS, from either floppy or hard
|||| drive (60 Gb Seagate), fine - no problem at all.
|||| If I try to install Windows 2000 it all seems to be going well
|||| until I get to the point where it should be 'Starting to run
|||| Windows for the first time' - and it just hangs - forever :-)
|||| I have tried building a fresh install on a Duron 1200 and then
|||| swapping the hard drive over - same problem: hangs after the
|||| 'starting Windows' progress stripe has completed.
|||| I've tried swapping both memory and motherboard (both GA-7VRXP
|||| Rev1.1) and still the same problem.
|||| This is driving me crazy !
|||| Does anyone have any ideas on what I should try next ?
|||| Any help would be very gratefully appreciated.
|||| TIA,
|||| Kevin.

John7
April 6th 04, 09:34 AM
Kevin,

I installed such a m/board at a customer with Win2K, runs flawless.
Try Safe Mode (with log file) and check 'ntbtlog.txt' for clues.
It is described in the MS article I mentioned before.

John7


"Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks again John.
> Top performance is off in the BIOS.
> I have started with defalt BIOS settings and disabled hardware I don't
need
> to start with - sound, LAN, USB, RAID.
> I have tried various combinations of DIMMs - one, two or three - all
branded
> Samsung, Crucial or Exact. Various memory test software has passed them as
> okay.
> Had a look at the MS knowledge base article, but mostly it discusses
> situations where Windows 2000 has booted up sucessfully on the machine
once
> before.
> Also looked at the MS 'Windows 2000 Startup' newsgroup. Similar problems
> have cropped up occasionally before, but never been properly explained or
> resolved.
> I am gradually coming to the conclusion that Windows 2000 and the GA-7VRXP
> m/board don't get along - but have seen no reports to confirm or deny that
> as yet. If so, then it would suggest that there is something on the
m/board
> which the default Windows 2000 drivers from the CD foul-up so badly wih
that
> the op system hangs - seems unlikely, but what else is left ? Other VIA
> chipset m/boards I use are fine.
> This would leave me with only two options - either buy a different m/board
> which Windows 2000 will install and run on, or buy and install Windows XP
in
> the hope that it will work properly. I'm not really happy with either of
> these options as I have two of these m/boards - I'm upgrading both of my
> machines - and I don't really want the bloat and expense of Windows XP
> compared to the relatively fast and lean Windows 2000 which has been very
> reliable for about four years.
> Thanks for your help so far - have you any idea what I can do next ?
> Cheers,
> Kevin.
>
> John7 > wrote:
> | Hi Kevin,
> |
> | Indeed, Matrox G400 and G450 are not demanding.
> | 330W PSU seems sufficient.
> | If present in bios, Top Performance should be off.
> | (you may have to press CTRL+F1 in bios main menu first).
> | Have you tried running with one DIMM only (either one).
> | If DIMM's are OEM, try branded ones.
> | Create a MS WinDiag floppy (see MS KB) to have them checked
> | or try www.simmtester.com
> | Check out MS KB article 315396 (keeps you off the streets for a while)
> |
> | HTH,
> | John7
> |
> | "Kevin Lawton" <> wrote in message
> | ...
> || Thanks, John.
> || BIOS virus protection is OFF.
> || Have tried various BIOS settings for stability and not 'pushing my
> || luck' with speed.
> || The only graphics cards I have available at the moment are all
> || Matrox ones - G400 and G450 - hardly the most demanding. I could buy
> || a cheap one tomorrow if it would help (suggestions ?).
> || 330w power supply. Only one HD is the system so far, no CDRW or DVD
> || yet, SCSI card and drives not installed yet.
> || Could go out and buy a 500w PSU tomorrow if that is the problem, but
> || wouldn't have thought it was necessary.
> || XP2400 + GA-7VRXP + 512 Mb DDR + G400 + 60 Gb HD + floppy. That's it
> || so far. Anything else I could try before I have to throw money at
> || this problem ? Thanks,
> || Kevin.
> ||
> || John7 > wrote:
> ||| Hi Kevin,
> |||
> ||| Turn virus / bootsector protection off in BIOS until install
> ||| finished. It seems the lockup occurs when the videocard is about to
> ||| go into graphics mode.
> ||| First, try defensive settings in BIOS.
> ||| Second, try swapping the card.
> ||| When graphic mode turns on, the card draws more current.
> ||| What is the wattage of your power supply?
> ||| You'll need at least 300W, better 350W.
> ||| Tell us more about your system.
> |||
> ||| Installing windows on another mainboard, then swapping harddrive
> ||| to other mainboard won't work.
> |||
> ||| HTH,
> ||| John7
> |||
> |||
> ||| PS: to protect yourself from spam, don't post your email address
> ||| here or insert something like REMOVE.
> |||
> |||
> |||
> ||| "Kevin Lawton" <> wrote in message
> ||| ...
> |||| Please, can somebody help me with this ?
> |||| Gigabyte GA-7VRXP + AMD XP2400 + 2 x 256 Mb DDR2700.
> |||| The above runs various versions of DOS, from either floppy or hard
> |||| drive (60 Gb Seagate), fine - no problem at all.
> |||| If I try to install Windows 2000 it all seems to be going well
> |||| until I get to the point where it should be 'Starting to run
> |||| Windows for the first time' - and it just hangs - forever :-)
> |||| I have tried building a fresh install on a Duron 1200 and then
> |||| swapping the hard drive over - same problem: hangs after the
> |||| 'starting Windows' progress stripe has completed.
> |||| I've tried swapping both memory and motherboard (both GA-7VRXP
> |||| Rev1.1) and still the same problem.
> |||| This is driving me crazy !
> |||| Does anyone have any ideas on what I should try next ?
> |||| Any help would be very gratefully appreciated.
> |||| TIA,
> |||| Kevin.
>
>

Kevin Lawton
April 6th 04, 01:10 PM
John,
As soon as I encoutered this problem I tried safe mode - but I still get the
same problem, it says it is starting then hangs before I get a desktop up.
In fact I have tried starting in just about every mode available from the
'F8' menu - logged, command prompt, anything, and in every case the system
just hangs just at the point which I can best describe as 'really running
the operating system' as opposed to running in some sort of booting/loading
mode or version.
The bootlog file doesn't appear to be being written, so I think the point of
failure must be just before the bootlog is created. The MS articles just
don't seem to hit the point of failure I'm experiencing. In fact, judging by
the content of the MS knowledgebase articles and their newgroup, MS seem to
deny that a failuer can occur at this point - or at least that it is not a
problem in Windows as such.
If MS are to be believed, then I'm getting a hardware failure. I've tried
replacing just about every component in the system, in fact the only part I
haven't replaced is the processor - due to the cost. I was wondering whether
there was any way of making sure that this actually is a processor problem
before spending out on a replacement.
MS-DOS and DR-DOS both run fine, but they are only 16-bit real-mode. Windows
2000 hangs at some point in the boot sequence just before it 'gets
sophisticated' and brings up the desktop. I'm thinking that it is time to
try loading in something else - either some processor test software or
another op system.
Any further ideas along these lines - or do you think I'm chasing a 'red
herring' ?
Thanks for your help,
Kevn.

John7 <> wrote:
| Kevin,
|
| I installed such a m/board at a customer with Win2K, runs flawless.
| Try Safe Mode (with log file) and check 'ntbtlog.txt' for clues.
| It is described in the MS article I mentioned before.
|
| John7
|
| "Kevin Lawton" <> wrote in message
| ...
|| Thanks again John.
|| Top performance is off in the BIOS.
|| I have started with defalt BIOS settings and disabled hardware I
|| don't need to start with - sound, LAN, USB, RAID.
|| I have tried various combinations of DIMMs - one, two or three - all
|| branded Samsung, Crucial or Exact. Various memory test software has
|| passed them as okay.
|| Had a look at the MS knowledge base article, but mostly it discusses
|| situations where Windows 2000 has booted up sucessfully on the
|| machine once before.
|| Also looked at the MS 'Windows 2000 Startup' newsgroup. Similar
|| problems have cropped up occasionally before, but never been
|| properly explained or resolved.
|| I am gradually coming to the conclusion that Windows 2000 and the
|| GA-7VRXP m/board don't get along - but have seen no reports to
|| confirm or deny that as yet. If so, then it would suggest that there
|| is something on the m/board which the default Windows 2000 drivers
|| from the CD foul-up so badly wih that the op system hangs - seems
|| unlikely, but what else is left ? Other VIA chipset m/boards I use
|| are fine.
|| This would leave me with only two options - either buy a different
|| m/board which Windows 2000 will install and run on, or buy and
|| install Windows XP in the hope that it will work properly. I'm not
|| really happy with either of these options as I have two of these
|| m/boards - I'm upgrading both of my machines - and I don't really
|| want the bloat and expense of Windows XP compared to the relatively
|| fast and lean Windows 2000 which has been very reliable for about
|| four years.
|| Thanks for your help so far - have you any idea what I can do next ?
|| Cheers,
|| Kevin.
||
|| John7 <> wrote:
||| Hi Kevin,
|||
||| Indeed, Matrox G400 and G450 are not demanding.
||| 330W PSU seems sufficient.
||| If present in bios, Top Performance should be off.
||| (you may have to press CTRL+F1 in bios main menu first).
||| Have you tried running with one DIMM only (either one).
||| If DIMM's are OEM, try branded ones.
||| Create a MS WinDiag floppy (see MS KB) to have them checked
||| or try www.simmtester.com
||| Check out MS KB article 315396 (keeps you off the streets for a
||| while)
|||
||| HTH,
||| John7
|||
||| "Kevin Lawton" <> wrote in message
||| ...
|||| Thanks, John.
|||| BIOS virus protection is OFF.
|||| Have tried various BIOS settings for stability and not 'pushing my
|||| luck' with speed.
|||| The only graphics cards I have available at the moment are all
|||| Matrox ones - G400 and G450 - hardly the most demanding. I could
|||| buy
|||| a cheap one tomorrow if it would help (suggestions ?).
|||| 330w power supply. Only one HD is the system so far, no CDRW or DVD
|||| yet, SCSI card and drives not installed yet.
|||| Could go out and buy a 500w PSU tomorrow if that is the problem,
|||| but wouldn't have thought it was necessary.
|||| XP2400 + GA-7VRXP + 512 Mb DDR + G400 + 60 Gb HD + floppy. That's
|||| it so far. Anything else I could try before I have to throw money
|||| at
|||| this problem ? Thanks,
|||| Kevin.
||||
|||| John7 > wrote:
||||| Hi Kevin,
|||||
||||| Turn virus / bootsector protection off in BIOS until install
||||| finished. It seems the lockup occurs when the videocard is about
||||| to go into graphics mode.
||||| First, try defensive settings in BIOS.
||||| Second, try swapping the card.
||||| When graphic mode turns on, the card draws more current.
||||| What is the wattage of your power supply?
||||| You'll need at least 300W, better 350W.
||||| Tell us more about your system.
|||||
||||| Installing windows on another mainboard, then swapping harddrive
||||| to other mainboard won't work.
|||||
||||| HTH,
||||| John7
|||||
|||||
||||| PS: to protect yourself from spam, don't post your email address
||||| here or insert something like REMOVE.
|||||
|||||
|||||
||||| "Kevin Lawton" <> wrote in message
||||| ...
|||||| Please, can somebody help me with this ?
|||||| Gigabyte GA-7VRXP + AMD XP2400 + 2 x 256 Mb DDR2700.
|||||| The above runs various versions of DOS, from either floppy or
|||||| hard drive (60 Gb Seagate), fine - no problem at all.
|||||| If I try to install Windows 2000 it all seems to be going well
|||||| until I get to the point where it should be 'Starting to run
|||||| Windows for the first time' - and it just hangs - forever :-)
|||||| I have tried building a fresh install on a Duron 1200 and then
|||||| swapping the hard drive over - same problem: hangs after the
|||||| 'starting Windows' progress stripe has completed.
|||||| I've tried swapping both memory and motherboard (both GA-7VRXP
|||||| Rev1.1) and still the same problem.
|||||| This is driving me crazy !
|||||| Does anyone have any ideas on what I should try next ?
|||||| Any help would be very gratefully appreciated.
|||||| TIA,
|||||| Kevin.

Simon Elliott
April 7th 04, 08:06 AM
Kevin Lawton wrote:

><all snipped>
>
Kevin

I appreciate it's not much help to say this but my combination of
GA-7VRXP (Rev 1.1, I think) & Athlon 1600 works fine with W2K (and
W95). It can be done.

If I've followed the thread correctly you've tried changing memory, but
have you tried a different HDD?

--

Simon

Kevin Lawton
April 8th 04, 01:17 AM
The HD in question was clean to start with, as were some of the others I've
tried - so far 40, 60 & 80 Gb Seagate HDs. Same result on all of them. All
tried on another machine afterwards with no problems. I don't use any disk
manager software - modern BIOSes can see the whole of the drive fine as is.
If this was an MBR problem then it wouldn't boot as far as it does, I think.
I've tried slowing down the FSB speed, and also the memory speed, but still
no change.
Tried replacing the Matrox G400 AGP card with a Matrox Mystique PCI card
(and changed BIOS) but still no change - it boots as far as the 'Starting
Windows' bar completes and then hangs. In 'Safe Mode with Command Prompt' I
can see Mup.sys as the last file sucessfully loaded. I think this is the
famous 'muppet' problem !
Got myself a new PSU - a big beefy 550w job - and still no change.
So far, every piece of hardware except for the processor has been swapped
out.
Before buying another AMD XP2400 CPU I'd really like to make sure something
is wrong with the one I've got.
Does anyone know of any CPU testing/diagnostic software which I could
download and run from a floppy ?
TIA
Kevin.

John7 > wrote:
| Kevin,
|
| Maybe Simon has a point ...
| Is this HD brand new or was there another OS before?
| Was any Disk Manager software installed before ?
| This software survives even fdisk and format !
| Try Win98 fdisk /mbr to restore a clean bootsector.
| Try harddisk checkers / diagnostics to check the disk surface.
| The first drive sectors are essential for stable OS installation.
| As a last resort, run the low level formatter from the drive mfg.
|
| Some other thoughts ...
| I've seen PSU's that appear fine but collapse as soon as more power
| is to delivered (e.g. when PC goes into graphics mode). Now the
| m/board is outside the case, can't you hook it up to a friend's PSU?
|
| Try running your CPU at a lower Front Side Bus Speed, best is 100MHz.
| If Windows boots, run 'cpuid.exe' by www.h-oda.com to check if the CPU
| is what it pretents to be. Background: there are falsified re-labeled
| CPU's around (like 2000XP --> 2400XP, so in essence running
| overclocked)
|
| I hope we find at least something here! :-)
|
| John7
|
| "Simon Elliott" > wrote in message
| ...
|| Kevin Lawton wrote:
||
||| <all snipped>
|||
|| Kevin
||
|| I appreciate it's not much help to say this but my combination of
|| GA-7VRXP (Rev 1.1, I think) & Athlon 1600 works fine with W2K (and
|| W95). It can be done.
||
|| If I've followed the thread correctly you've tried changing memory,
|| but have you tried a different HDD?
||
|| --
||
|| Simon

John7
April 8th 04, 09:42 AM
Hi Kevin,

Never heard about the 'Muppet problem', but one is never to old to learn.

I found this solution for you:
----------------------------------
Start the Recovery console or..
Start the computer with the boot disks or Windows CDROM
After the Welcome to Setup dialog box appears, press R to repair, and then
press C to start Recovery console.
Choose install Windows and log on as Administrator.

At the command prompt type "disable Mup.sys"

"MUP stands for "Multiple UNC Provider" which assists Windows in locating
resources when more than one redirector is on a machine such as "Microsoft
Client for Microsoft Networks" and the "Novell Client for Novell Netware".
When a connection to a server is requested it does not know if the request
is to a Novell server or an NT server. It will start looking for the server
with the primary protocol on the primary requestor and then continue looking
for the server on each protocol bound to each redirector until the server is
found."

Restart the computer and all should be well.
---------------------------

I am curious about your results !

HTH,
John7



"Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
...
> The HD in question was clean to start with, as were some of the others
I've
> tried - so far 40, 60 & 80 Gb Seagate HDs. Same result on all of them. All
> tried on another machine afterwards with no problems. I don't use any disk
> manager software - modern BIOSes can see the whole of the drive fine as
is.
> If this was an MBR problem then it wouldn't boot as far as it does, I
think.
> I've tried slowing down the FSB speed, and also the memory speed, but
still
> no change.
> Tried replacing the Matrox G400 AGP card with a Matrox Mystique PCI card
> (and changed BIOS) but still no change - it boots as far as the 'Starting
> Windows' bar completes and then hangs. In 'Safe Mode with Command Prompt'
I
> can see Mup.sys as the last file sucessfully loaded. I think this is the
> famous 'muppet' problem !
> Got myself a new PSU - a big beefy 550w job - and still no change.
> So far, every piece of hardware except for the processor has been swapped
> out.
> Before buying another AMD XP2400 CPU I'd really like to make sure
something
> is wrong with the one I've got.
> Does anyone know of any CPU testing/diagnostic software which I could
> download and run from a floppy ?
> TIA
> Kevin.
>
> John7 > wrote:
> | Kevin,
> |
> | Maybe Simon has a point ...
> | Is this HD brand new or was there another OS before?
> | Was any Disk Manager software installed before ?
> | This software survives even fdisk and format !
> | Try Win98 fdisk /mbr to restore a clean bootsector.
> | Try harddisk checkers / diagnostics to check the disk surface.
> | The first drive sectors are essential for stable OS installation.
> | As a last resort, run the low level formatter from the drive mfg.
> |
> | Some other thoughts ...
> | I've seen PSU's that appear fine but collapse as soon as more power
> | is to delivered (e.g. when PC goes into graphics mode). Now the
> | m/board is outside the case, can't you hook it up to a friend's PSU?
> |
> | Try running your CPU at a lower Front Side Bus Speed, best is 100MHz.
> | If Windows boots, run 'cpuid.exe' by www.h-oda.com to check if the CPU
> | is what it pretents to be. Background: there are falsified re-labeled
> | CPU's around (like 2000XP --> 2400XP, so in essence running
> | overclocked)
> |
> | I hope we find at least something here! :-)
> |
> | John7
> |
> | "Simon Elliott" > wrote in message
> | ...
> || Kevin Lawton wrote:
> ||
> ||| <all snipped>
> |||
> || Kevin
> ||
> || I appreciate it's not much help to say this but my combination of
> || GA-7VRXP (Rev 1.1, I think) & Athlon 1600 works fine with W2K (and
> || W95). It can be done.
> ||
> || If I've followed the thread correctly you've tried changing memory,
> || but have you tried a different HDD?
> ||
> || --
> ||
> || Simon
>
>

Kevin Lawton
April 10th 04, 12:07 AM
I'm still baffled by my results.
Tried disabling Mup.sys but the problem stayed there, it just finished
loading the module previous to Mup.sys instead.
After all the hardware swapping I decided it was time to try different
software:
I FDISKed the HD and installed Red Hat 9. Went in like a dream - 20 mins
from FDISK to playing 'Tux Racer'. The hardware seems slick and flast and
has been running now for about 6 hours with no problems.
I guess this proves that the hardware is okay, but I'd still like to run
some good diagnostic tests to prove that point. Anyone know of any
diagnostics to run under Linux ?
So, there is still a problem with installing or running Windows 2000, and
I'm not too sure what to do next to solve it. I've now tried swapping
everything in the system except for the CPU, but as Linux runs fine I'm
guessing that it is okay.
I will investigate the option of trying Win4Lin so my applications can be
used, but there might be a problem. One of the most important applications
is the Driver and Video software which comes with the Matrox G-series
Rainbow Runner video capture card. I don't want to run programs under any
sort of emulation which might comprimise performance, as the whole reason I
built this machine was to have something fast enough for video editing. My
Duron 1200 and Athlon 1.4 are plenty fast enough for everything else I do.
The original problem is still present - Windows hangs when the 'Starting
Windows' progress bar completes, when Mup.sys has been loaded. Now that I
think we've eliminated a hardware problem, I am beginning to wonder if there
isn't a problem with Windows itself. Windows 2000 is over four years old,
the hardware is relatively recent. Could it be that they are just not
compatible ?
TIA
Kevin.

John7 > wrote:
| Hi Kevin,
|
| Never heard about the 'Muppet problem', but one is never to old to
| learn.
|
| I found this solution for you:
| ----------------------------------
| Start the Recovery console or..
| Start the computer with the boot disks or Windows CDROM
| After the Welcome to Setup dialog box appears, press R to repair, and
| then press C to start Recovery console.
| Choose install Windows and log on as Administrator.
|
| At the command prompt type "disable Mup.sys"
|
| "MUP stands for "Multiple UNC Provider" which assists Windows in
| locating resources when more than one redirector is on a machine such
| as "Microsoft Client for Microsoft Networks" and the "Novell Client
| for Novell Netware". When a connection to a server is requested it
| does not know if the request is to a Novell server or an NT server.
| It will start looking for the server with the primary protocol on the
| primary requestor and then continue looking for the server on each
| protocol bound to each redirector until the server is found."
|
| Restart the computer and all should be well.
| ---------------------------
|
| I am curious about your results !
|
| HTH,
| John7
|
| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
| ...
|| The HD in question was clean to start with, as were some of the
|| others I've tried - so far 40, 60 & 80 Gb Seagate HDs. Same result
|| on all of them. All tried on another machine afterwards with no
|| problems. I don't use any disk manager software - modern BIOSes can
|| see the whole of the drive fine as is. If this was an MBR problem
|| then it wouldn't boot as far as it does, I think. I've tried slowing
|| down the FSB speed, and also the memory speed, but still no change.
|| Tried replacing the Matrox G400 AGP card with a Matrox Mystique PCI
|| card (and changed BIOS) but still no change - it boots as far as the
|| 'Starting Windows' bar completes and then hangs. In 'Safe Mode with
|| Command Prompt' I can see Mup.sys as the last file sucessfully
|| loaded. I think this is the famous 'muppet' problem !
|| Got myself a new PSU - a big beefy 550w job - and still no change.
|| So far, every piece of hardware except for the processor has been
|| swapped out.
|| Before buying another AMD XP2400 CPU I'd really like to make sure
|| something is wrong with the one I've got.
|| Does anyone know of any CPU testing/diagnostic software which I could
|| download and run from a floppy ?
|| TIA
|| Kevin.
||
|| John7 > wrote:
||| Kevin,
|||
||| Maybe Simon has a point ...
||| Is this HD brand new or was there another OS before?
||| Was any Disk Manager software installed before ?
||| This software survives even fdisk and format !
||| Try Win98 fdisk /mbr to restore a clean bootsector.
||| Try harddisk checkers / diagnostics to check the disk surface.
||| The first drive sectors are essential for stable OS installation.
||| As a last resort, run the low level formatter from the drive mfg.
|||
||| Some other thoughts ...
||| I've seen PSU's that appear fine but collapse as soon as more power
||| is to delivered (e.g. when PC goes into graphics mode). Now the
||| m/board is outside the case, can't you hook it up to a friend's PSU?
|||
||| Try running your CPU at a lower Front Side Bus Speed, best is
||| 100MHz. If Windows boots, run 'cpuid.exe' by www.h-oda.com to check
||| if the CPU is what it pretents to be. Background: there are
||| falsified re-labeled CPU's around (like 2000XP --> 2400XP, so in
||| essence running overclocked)
|||
||| I hope we find at least something here! :-)
|||
||| John7
|||
||| "Simon Elliott" > wrote in message
||| ...
|||| Kevin Lawton wrote:
||||
||||| <all snipped>
|||||
|||| Kevin
||||
|||| I appreciate it's not much help to say this but my combination of
|||| GA-7VRXP (Rev 1.1, I think) & Athlon 1600 works fine with W2K (and
|||| W95). It can be done.
||||
|||| If I've followed the thread correctly you've tried changing memory,
|||| but have you tried a different HDD?
||||
|||| --
||||
|||| Simon

John7
April 13th 04, 10:48 AM
Kevin,

Try to get a recent Win2K with slipstreamed Service Pack 4.
It may take more recent hardware into account.

B.t.w. there's quit some info about the mup.sys problem on the web.

Keep us posted.
John7


"Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
...
> I'm still baffled by my results.
> Tried disabling Mup.sys but the problem stayed there, it just finished
> loading the module previous to Mup.sys instead.
> After all the hardware swapping I decided it was time to try different
> software:
> I FDISKed the HD and installed Red Hat 9. Went in like a dream - 20 mins
> from FDISK to playing 'Tux Racer'. The hardware seems slick and flast and
> has been running now for about 6 hours with no problems.
> I guess this proves that the hardware is okay, but I'd still like to run
> some good diagnostic tests to prove that point. Anyone know of any
> diagnostics to run under Linux ?
> So, there is still a problem with installing or running Windows 2000, and
> I'm not too sure what to do next to solve it. I've now tried swapping
> everything in the system except for the CPU, but as Linux runs fine I'm
> guessing that it is okay.
> I will investigate the option of trying Win4Lin so my applications can be
> used, but there might be a problem. One of the most important applications
> is the Driver and Video software which comes with the Matrox G-series
> Rainbow Runner video capture card. I don't want to run programs under any
> sort of emulation which might comprimise performance, as the whole reason
I
> built this machine was to have something fast enough for video editing. My
> Duron 1200 and Athlon 1.4 are plenty fast enough for everything else I do.
> The original problem is still present - Windows hangs when the 'Starting
> Windows' progress bar completes, when Mup.sys has been loaded. Now that I
> think we've eliminated a hardware problem, I am beginning to wonder if
there
> isn't a problem with Windows itself. Windows 2000 is over four years old,
> the hardware is relatively recent. Could it be that they are just not
> compatible ?
> TIA
> Kevin.
>
> John7 > wrote:
> | Hi Kevin,
> |
> | Never heard about the 'Muppet problem', but one is never to old to
> | learn.
> |
> | I found this solution for you:
> | ----------------------------------
> | Start the Recovery console or..
> | Start the computer with the boot disks or Windows CDROM
> | After the Welcome to Setup dialog box appears, press R to repair, and
> | then press C to start Recovery console.
> | Choose install Windows and log on as Administrator.
> |
> | At the command prompt type "disable Mup.sys"
> |
> | "MUP stands for "Multiple UNC Provider" which assists Windows in
> | locating resources when more than one redirector is on a machine such
> | as "Microsoft Client for Microsoft Networks" and the "Novell Client
> | for Novell Netware". When a connection to a server is requested it
> | does not know if the request is to a Novell server or an NT server.
> | It will start looking for the server with the primary protocol on the
> | primary requestor and then continue looking for the server on each
> | protocol bound to each redirector until the server is found."
> |
> | Restart the computer and all should be well.
> | ---------------------------
> |
> | I am curious about your results !
> |
> | HTH,
> | John7
> |
> | "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
> | ...
> || The HD in question was clean to start with, as were some of the
> || others I've tried - so far 40, 60 & 80 Gb Seagate HDs. Same result
> || on all of them. All tried on another machine afterwards with no
> || problems. I don't use any disk manager software - modern BIOSes can
> || see the whole of the drive fine as is. If this was an MBR problem
> || then it wouldn't boot as far as it does, I think. I've tried slowing
> || down the FSB speed, and also the memory speed, but still no change.
> || Tried replacing the Matrox G400 AGP card with a Matrox Mystique PCI
> || card (and changed BIOS) but still no change - it boots as far as the
> || 'Starting Windows' bar completes and then hangs. In 'Safe Mode with
> || Command Prompt' I can see Mup.sys as the last file sucessfully
> || loaded. I think this is the famous 'muppet' problem !
> || Got myself a new PSU - a big beefy 550w job - and still no change.
> || So far, every piece of hardware except for the processor has been
> || swapped out.
> || Before buying another AMD XP2400 CPU I'd really like to make sure
> || something is wrong with the one I've got.
> || Does anyone know of any CPU testing/diagnostic software which I could
> || download and run from a floppy ?
> || TIA
> || Kevin.
> ||
> || John7 > wrote:
> ||| Kevin,
> |||
> ||| Maybe Simon has a point ...
> ||| Is this HD brand new or was there another OS before?
> ||| Was any Disk Manager software installed before ?
> ||| This software survives even fdisk and format !
> ||| Try Win98 fdisk /mbr to restore a clean bootsector.
> ||| Try harddisk checkers / diagnostics to check the disk surface.
> ||| The first drive sectors are essential for stable OS installation.
> ||| As a last resort, run the low level formatter from the drive mfg.
> |||
> ||| Some other thoughts ...
> ||| I've seen PSU's that appear fine but collapse as soon as more power
> ||| is to delivered (e.g. when PC goes into graphics mode). Now the
> ||| m/board is outside the case, can't you hook it up to a friend's PSU?
> |||
> ||| Try running your CPU at a lower Front Side Bus Speed, best is
> ||| 100MHz. If Windows boots, run 'cpuid.exe' by www.h-oda.com to check
> ||| if the CPU is what it pretents to be. Background: there are
> ||| falsified re-labeled CPU's around (like 2000XP --> 2400XP, so in
> ||| essence running overclocked)
> |||
> ||| I hope we find at least something here! :-)
> |||
> ||| John7
> |||
> ||| "Simon Elliott" > wrote in message
> ||| ...
> |||| Kevin Lawton wrote:
> ||||
> ||||| <all snipped>
> |||||
> |||| Kevin
> ||||
> |||| I appreciate it's not much help to say this but my combination of
> |||| GA-7VRXP (Rev 1.1, I think) & Athlon 1600 works fine with W2K (and
> |||| W95). It can be done.
> ||||
> |||| If I've followed the thread correctly you've tried changing memory,
> |||| but have you tried a different HDD?
> ||||
> |||| --
> ||||
> |||| Simon
>
>

Kevin Lawton
April 13th 04, 03:20 PM
John,
I'm not too sure what is meant by the term 'slipstreamed' in this case.
Does it mean Windows 2000 with the Service pack already in place ?
If so, then I believe that I could build it myself by copying files from the
downloaded service pack's i386 directory into the i386 directory on the
Windows 2000 install CD. Working on disk images of the CD, of course, and
then burning a new one. What do you reckon - worth a shot ?
I searched the web for the Mup.sys problem and found quite a few reports of
problems similar to mine. In some cases, using the recovery console to
disable mup.sys has worked but not in others. In some cases removing or
changing some hardware has worked, but then again not in others. In my case,
I've swapped hardware to no avail. Also, I don't seem to be able to get into
the recovery console - I just don't seem to have a 'R' = repair option at
the 'Welcome to Install' screen ! Very frustrating. :-(
For an alternative, I tried installing Windows Me - no problem at all. I
then tried installing Windows 2000 over the Me installation ('upgrade') and
the problem was still the same.
So to recap we have: DOS - okay, Linux - okay, Windows Me - okay, Windows
2000 - no go.
I'll just have to keep trying.
Thanks,
Kevin.

John7 > wrote:
| Kevin,
|
| Try to get a recent Win2K with slipstreamed Service Pack 4.
| It may take more recent hardware into account.
|
| B.t.w. there's quit some info about the mup.sys problem on the web.
|
| Keep us posted.
| John7
|
|
| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
| ...
|| I'm still baffled by my results.
|| Tried disabling Mup.sys but the problem stayed there, it just
|| finished loading the module previous to Mup.sys instead.
|| After all the hardware swapping I decided it was time to try
|| different software:
|| I FDISKed the HD and installed Red Hat 9. Went in like a dream - 20
|| mins from FDISK to playing 'Tux Racer'. The hardware seems slick and
|| flast and has been running now for about 6 hours with no problems.
|| I guess this proves that the hardware is okay, but I'd still like to
|| run some good diagnostic tests to prove that point. Anyone know of
|| any diagnostics to run under Linux ?
|| So, there is still a problem with installing or running Windows
|| 2000, and I'm not too sure what to do next to solve it. I've now
|| tried swapping everything in the system except for the CPU, but as
|| Linux runs fine I'm guessing that it is okay.
|| I will investigate the option of trying Win4Lin so my applications
|| can be used, but there might be a problem. One of the most important
|| applications is the Driver and Video software which comes with the
|| Matrox G-series Rainbow Runner video capture card. I don't want to
|| run programs under any sort of emulation which might comprimise
|| performance, as the whole reason I built this machine was to have
|| something fast enough for video editing. My Duron 1200 and Athlon
|| 1.4 are plenty fast enough for everything else I do. The original
|| problem is still present - Windows hangs when the 'Starting Windows'
|| progress bar completes, when Mup.sys has been loaded. Now that I
|| think we've eliminated a hardware problem, I am beginning to wonder
|| if there isn't a problem with Windows itself. Windows 2000 is over
|| four years old, the hardware is relatively recent. Could it be that
|| they are just not compatible ?
|| TIA
|| Kevin.
||
|| John7 > wrote:
||| Hi Kevin,
|||
||| Never heard about the 'Muppet problem', but one is never to old to
||| learn.
|||
||| I found this solution for you:
||| ----------------------------------
||| Start the Recovery console or..
||| Start the computer with the boot disks or Windows CDROM
||| After the Welcome to Setup dialog box appears, press R to repair,
||| and then press C to start Recovery console.
||| Choose install Windows and log on as Administrator.
|||
||| At the command prompt type "disable Mup.sys"
|||
||| "MUP stands for "Multiple UNC Provider" which assists Windows in
||| locating resources when more than one redirector is on a machine
||| such as "Microsoft Client for Microsoft Networks" and the "Novell
||| Client
||| for Novell Netware". When a connection to a server is requested it
||| does not know if the request is to a Novell server or an NT server.
||| It will start looking for the server with the primary protocol on
||| the primary requestor and then continue looking for the server on
||| each protocol bound to each redirector until the server is found."
|||
||| Restart the computer and all should be well.
||| ---------------------------
|||
||| I am curious about your results !
|||
||| HTH,
||| John7
|||
||| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
||| ...
|||| The HD in question was clean to start with, as were some of the
|||| others I've tried - so far 40, 60 & 80 Gb Seagate HDs. Same result
|||| on all of them. All tried on another machine afterwards with no
|||| problems. I don't use any disk manager software - modern BIOSes can
|||| see the whole of the drive fine as is. If this was an MBR problem
|||| then it wouldn't boot as far as it does, I think. I've tried
|||| slowing down the FSB speed, and also the memory speed, but still
|||| no change. Tried replacing the Matrox G400 AGP card with a Matrox
|||| Mystique PCI card (and changed BIOS) but still no change - it
|||| boots as far as the 'Starting Windows' bar completes and then
|||| hangs. In 'Safe Mode with Command Prompt' I can see Mup.sys as the
|||| last file sucessfully
|||| loaded. I think this is the famous 'muppet' problem !
|||| Got myself a new PSU - a big beefy 550w job - and still no change.
|||| So far, every piece of hardware except for the processor has been
|||| swapped out.
|||| Before buying another AMD XP2400 CPU I'd really like to make sure
|||| something is wrong with the one I've got.
|||| Does anyone know of any CPU testing/diagnostic software which I
|||| could download and run from a floppy ?
|||| TIA
|||| Kevin.
||||
|||| John7 > wrote:
||||| Kevin,
|||||
||||| Maybe Simon has a point ...
||||| Is this HD brand new or was there another OS before?
||||| Was any Disk Manager software installed before ?
||||| This software survives even fdisk and format !
||||| Try Win98 fdisk /mbr to restore a clean bootsector.
||||| Try harddisk checkers / diagnostics to check the disk surface.
||||| The first drive sectors are essential for stable OS installation.
||||| As a last resort, run the low level formatter from the drive mfg.
|||||
||||| Some other thoughts ...
||||| I've seen PSU's that appear fine but collapse as soon as more
||||| power is to delivered (e.g. when PC goes into graphics mode). Now
||||| the m/board is outside the case, can't you hook it up to a
||||| friend's PSU?
|||||
||||| Try running your CPU at a lower Front Side Bus Speed, best is
||||| 100MHz. If Windows boots, run 'cpuid.exe' by www.h-oda.com to
||||| check if the CPU is what it pretents to be. Background: there are
||||| falsified re-labeled CPU's around (like 2000XP --> 2400XP, so in
||||| essence running overclocked)
|||||
||||| I hope we find at least something here! :-)
|||||
||||| John7
|||||
||||| "Simon Elliott" > wrote in message
||||| ...
|||||| Kevin Lawton wrote:
||||||
||||||| <all snipped>
|||||||
|||||| Kevin
||||||
|||||| I appreciate it's not much help to say this but my combination of
|||||| GA-7VRXP (Rev 1.1, I think) & Athlon 1600 works fine with W2K
|||||| (and W95). It can be done.
||||||
|||||| If I've followed the thread correctly you've tried changing
|||||| memory, but have you tried a different HDD?
||||||
|||||| --
||||||
|||||| Simon

Rob Nicholson
April 13th 04, 04:41 PM
> Does it mean Windows 2000 with the Service pack already in place ?

Yes it does - if you are an MSDN member, you can download Windows 2000 with
SP4 pre-installed.

Rob.

John7
April 13th 04, 05:58 PM
Kevin,

MS KB has an article about slipstreaming. I don't know the details.

I shipped a system with GA7 VRXP+ and Win2K in 2003.
The only problem I remember was rev 1.x had problems with current
sucking GF4 VGA cards. So I swapped the m/board for a rev 2.0.

But to be honest, I think we are drifting away...
The thread got too long, I lost overview.
It must be something simple we just overlooked.

There were some suggestions you never responded to
like having the CPU checked using H.Oda's 'wcpuid'.
Maybe the results provide some clues.

Maybe it's better to start from fresh.
Flash latest BIOS, clean cmos (unplug mains and take battery out for 1 min),
set safe bios defaults, set boot order to cdrom-floppy-hd, disable any
virus/bios protections, disable as many onboard devices as possible, m/board
on table,
cpu + fan, slowest FSB, 1 dimm (min 256MB), final VGA card, 1 hd (to IDE1),
cdrom (to IDE2), no front switches, no floppy yet, 550W psu, simple ps2 kb
and mouse. Make sure install cd's scratch and finger print free, if you
suspect
cdrom read problems, swap it. Start system by shorting the power switch
pins.
Install Win2K from CD is tell us how far you get. Work towards the final
system
step by step. Don't rush. Enable onboard devices one at a time and install
drivers if required.

Keep your steps and results short.

John7



"Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
...
> John,
> I'm not too sure what is meant by the term 'slipstreamed' in this case.
> Does it mean Windows 2000 with the Service pack already in place ?
> If so, then I believe that I could build it myself by copying files from
the
> downloaded service pack's i386 directory into the i386 directory on the
> Windows 2000 install CD. Working on disk images of the CD, of course, and
> then burning a new one. What do you reckon - worth a shot ?
> I searched the web for the Mup.sys problem and found quite a few reports
of
> problems similar to mine. In some cases, using the recovery console to
> disable mup.sys has worked but not in others. In some cases removing or
> changing some hardware has worked, but then again not in others. In my
case,
> I've swapped hardware to no avail. Also, I don't seem to be able to get
into
> the recovery console - I just don't seem to have a 'R' = repair option at
> the 'Welcome to Install' screen ! Very frustrating. :-(
> For an alternative, I tried installing Windows Me - no problem at all. I
> then tried installing Windows 2000 over the Me installation ('upgrade')
and
> the problem was still the same.
> So to recap we have: DOS - okay, Linux - okay, Windows Me - okay, Windows
> 2000 - no go.
> I'll just have to keep trying.
> Thanks,
> Kevin.
>
> John7 > wrote:
> | Kevin,
> |
> | Try to get a recent Win2K with slipstreamed Service Pack 4.
> | It may take more recent hardware into account.
> |
> | B.t.w. there's quit some info about the mup.sys problem on the web.
> |
> | Keep us posted.
> | John7
> |
> |
> | "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
> | ...
> || I'm still baffled by my results.
> || Tried disabling Mup.sys but the problem stayed there, it just
> || finished loading the module previous to Mup.sys instead.
> || After all the hardware swapping I decided it was time to try
> || different software:
> || I FDISKed the HD and installed Red Hat 9. Went in like a dream - 20
> || mins from FDISK to playing 'Tux Racer'. The hardware seems slick and
> || flast and has been running now for about 6 hours with no problems.
> || I guess this proves that the hardware is okay, but I'd still like to
> || run some good diagnostic tests to prove that point. Anyone know of
> || any diagnostics to run under Linux ?
> || So, there is still a problem with installing or running Windows
> || 2000, and I'm not too sure what to do next to solve it. I've now
> || tried swapping everything in the system except for the CPU, but as
> || Linux runs fine I'm guessing that it is okay.
> || I will investigate the option of trying Win4Lin so my applications
> || can be used, but there might be a problem. One of the most important
> || applications is the Driver and Video software which comes with the
> || Matrox G-series Rainbow Runner video capture card. I don't want to
> || run programs under any sort of emulation which might comprimise
> || performance, as the whole reason I built this machine was to have
> || something fast enough for video editing. My Duron 1200 and Athlon
> || 1.4 are plenty fast enough for everything else I do. The original
> || problem is still present - Windows hangs when the 'Starting Windows'
> || progress bar completes, when Mup.sys has been loaded. Now that I
> || think we've eliminated a hardware problem, I am beginning to wonder
> || if there isn't a problem with Windows itself. Windows 2000 is over
> || four years old, the hardware is relatively recent. Could it be that
> || they are just not compatible ?
> || TIA
> || Kevin.
> ||
> || John7 > wrote:
> ||| Hi Kevin,
> |||
> ||| Never heard about the 'Muppet problem', but one is never to old to
> ||| learn.
> |||
> ||| I found this solution for you:
> ||| ----------------------------------
> ||| Start the Recovery console or..
> ||| Start the computer with the boot disks or Windows CDROM
> ||| After the Welcome to Setup dialog box appears, press R to repair,
> ||| and then press C to start Recovery console.
> ||| Choose install Windows and log on as Administrator.
> |||
> ||| At the command prompt type "disable Mup.sys"
> |||
> ||| "MUP stands for "Multiple UNC Provider" which assists Windows in
> ||| locating resources when more than one redirector is on a machine
> ||| such as "Microsoft Client for Microsoft Networks" and the "Novell
> ||| Client
> ||| for Novell Netware". When a connection to a server is requested it
> ||| does not know if the request is to a Novell server or an NT server.
> ||| It will start looking for the server with the primary protocol on
> ||| the primary requestor and then continue looking for the server on
> ||| each protocol bound to each redirector until the server is found."
> |||
> ||| Restart the computer and all should be well.
> ||| ---------------------------
> |||
> ||| I am curious about your results !
> |||
> ||| HTH,
> ||| John7
> |||
> ||| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
> ||| ...
> |||| The HD in question was clean to start with, as were some of the
> |||| others I've tried - so far 40, 60 & 80 Gb Seagate HDs. Same result
> |||| on all of them. All tried on another machine afterwards with no
> |||| problems. I don't use any disk manager software - modern BIOSes can
> |||| see the whole of the drive fine as is. If this was an MBR problem
> |||| then it wouldn't boot as far as it does, I think. I've tried
> |||| slowing down the FSB speed, and also the memory speed, but still
> |||| no change. Tried replacing the Matrox G400 AGP card with a Matrox
> |||| Mystique PCI card (and changed BIOS) but still no change - it
> |||| boots as far as the 'Starting Windows' bar completes and then
> |||| hangs. In 'Safe Mode with Command Prompt' I can see Mup.sys as the
> |||| last file sucessfully
> |||| loaded. I think this is the famous 'muppet' problem !
> |||| Got myself a new PSU - a big beefy 550w job - and still no change.
> |||| So far, every piece of hardware except for the processor has been
> |||| swapped out.
> |||| Before buying another AMD XP2400 CPU I'd really like to make sure
> |||| something is wrong with the one I've got.
> |||| Does anyone know of any CPU testing/diagnostic software which I
> |||| could download and run from a floppy ?
> |||| TIA
> |||| Kevin.
> ||||
> |||| John7 > wrote:
> ||||| Kevin,
> |||||
> ||||| Maybe Simon has a point ...
> ||||| Is this HD brand new or was there another OS before?
> ||||| Was any Disk Manager software installed before ?
> ||||| This software survives even fdisk and format !
> ||||| Try Win98 fdisk /mbr to restore a clean bootsector.
> ||||| Try harddisk checkers / diagnostics to check the disk surface.
> ||||| The first drive sectors are essential for stable OS installation.
> ||||| As a last resort, run the low level formatter from the drive mfg.
> |||||
> ||||| Some other thoughts ...
> ||||| I've seen PSU's that appear fine but collapse as soon as more
> ||||| power is to delivered (e.g. when PC goes into graphics mode). Now
> ||||| the m/board is outside the case, can't you hook it up to a
> ||||| friend's PSU?
> |||||
> ||||| Try running your CPU at a lower Front Side Bus Speed, best is
> ||||| 100MHz. If Windows boots, run 'cpuid.exe' by www.h-oda.com to
> ||||| check if the CPU is what it pretents to be. Background: there are
> ||||| falsified re-labeled CPU's around (like 2000XP --> 2400XP, so in
> ||||| essence running overclocked)
> |||||
> ||||| I hope we find at least something here! :-)
> |||||
> ||||| John7
> |||||
> ||||| "Simon Elliott" > wrote in message
> ||||| ...
> |||||| Kevin Lawton wrote:
> ||||||
> ||||||| <all snipped>
> |||||||
> |||||| Kevin
> ||||||
> |||||| I appreciate it's not much help to say this but my combination of
> |||||| GA-7VRXP (Rev 1.1, I think) & Athlon 1600 works fine with W2K
> |||||| (and W95). It can be done.
> ||||||
> |||||| If I've followed the thread correctly you've tried changing
> |||||| memory, but have you tried a different HDD?
> ||||||
> |||||| --
> ||||||
> |||||| Simon
>
>

Kevin Lawton
April 13th 04, 11:51 PM
John7 > wrote:
| Kevin,
|
| MS KB has an article about slipstreaming. I don't know the details.

I eventually found the article and it seems to be what I had imagined - a
Windows 2000 install CD with the i386 directory updated with the latest
service pack. Shouldn't be too difficult to create one, I think. I'll give
it a try.

| I shipped a system with GA7 VRXP+ and Win2K in 2003.
| The only problem I remember was rev 1.x had problems with current
| sucking GF4 VGA cards. So I swapped the m/board for a rev 2.0.

I have heard of people having problems with GeForce video and VIA chipsets,
but have performed plenty of good installations using Matrox.

| But to be honest, I think we are drifting away...
| The thread got too long, I lost overview.
| It must be something simple we just overlooked.

Might well be. I've been over all my previous steps with a fine-toothed comb
and don't appear to have missed anything though.

| There were some suggestions you never responded to
| like having the CPU checked using H.Oda's 'wcpuid'.
| Maybe the results provide some clues.

Having recently installed Windows Me on the machine, I was able to run
'wcpuid' and all the figures checked-out exactly as I'd expected. The only
noticable difference between this machine and all the others I've done is
that this is the first processor I've used with SSE (streaming SIMD
extensions). I know these cause problems with BeOS (you have to patch the
Kernel) but would have thought Windows would be okay (bad assumption maybe
?).
All the info about the m/board and graphics card were exactly as expected as
well. I also tried a similar utility given by AMD with the same, correct,
results.

| Maybe it's better to start from fresh.
| Flash latest BIOS, clean cmos (unplug mains and take battery out for
| 1 min), set safe bios defaults, set boot order to cdrom-floppy-hd,
| disable any virus/bios protections, disable as many onboard devices
| as possible, m/board on table,

It has all been done, but I've tried again to make sure. The BIOS supplied
with the board is the same version as the latest on Gigabyte's web site.

| cpu + fan, slowest FSB, 1 dimm (min 256MB), final VGA card, 1 hd (to
| IDE1), cdrom (to IDE2), no front switches, no floppy yet, 550W psu,
| simple ps2 kb and mouse. Make sure install cd's scratch and finger
| print free, if you suspect
| cdrom read problems, swap it. Start system by shorting the power
| switch pins.

To be honest, I always begin any new system as a 'minimum build' and then
add all the extras in, one at a time, once I know the basics are working.

| Install Win2K from CD is tell us how far you get. Work towards the
| final system
| step by step. Don't rush. Enable onboard devices one at a time and
| install drivers if required.

Gave it a try on a nice new fresh HD (I'm running out of unused ones !).
Got as far as the first re-boot - okay, it rebooted.
Examining hardware - and it did so.
Starting Windows - lots of little files are quickly loaded.
The progress bar completes - it hangs (HD light is off) for hours (still
waiting after 3 hours).

So after carefully retracing and repeating my steps I seem to be left with
two choices: either have a try at making my own slipstreamed install disk
or risk breaking the CPU core swapping it for the Duron 650.
I guess the Duron 650 route will be quicker so I'll give it a try and report
back. I have a nasty feeling about this. :-(
Thanks again for your help,
Kevin.

|
|
| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
| ...
|| John,
|| I'm not too sure what is meant by the term 'slipstreamed' in this
|| case. Does it mean Windows 2000 with the Service pack already in
|| place ?
|| If so, then I believe that I could build it myself by copying files
|| from the downloaded service pack's i386 directory into the i386
|| directory on the Windows 2000 install CD. Working on disk images of
|| the CD, of course, and then burning a new one. What do you reckon -
|| worth a shot ?
|| I searched the web for the Mup.sys problem and found quite a few
|| reports of problems similar to mine. In some cases, using the
|| recovery console to disable mup.sys has worked but not in others. In
|| some cases removing or changing some hardware has worked, but then
|| again not in others. In my case, I've swapped hardware to no avail.
|| Also, I don't seem to be able to get into the recovery console - I
|| just don't seem to have a 'R' = repair option at the 'Welcome to
|| Install' screen ! Very frustrating. :-(
|| For an alternative, I tried installing Windows Me - no problem at
|| all. I then tried installing Windows 2000 over the Me installation
|| ('upgrade') and the problem was still the same.
|| So to recap we have: DOS - okay, Linux - okay, Windows Me - okay,
|| Windows 2000 - no go.
|| I'll just have to keep trying.
|| Thanks,
|| Kevin.
||
|| John7 > wrote:
||| Kevin,
|||
||| Try to get a recent Win2K with slipstreamed Service Pack 4.
||| It may take more recent hardware into account.
|||
||| B.t.w. there's quit some info about the mup.sys problem on the web.
|||
||| Keep us posted.
||| John7
|||
|||
||| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
||| ...
|||| I'm still baffled by my results.
|||| Tried disabling Mup.sys but the problem stayed there, it just
|||| finished loading the module previous to Mup.sys instead.
|||| After all the hardware swapping I decided it was time to try
|||| different software:
|||| I FDISKed the HD and installed Red Hat 9. Went in like a dream - 20
|||| mins from FDISK to playing 'Tux Racer'. The hardware seems slick
|||| and flast and has been running now for about 6 hours with no
|||| problems.
|||| I guess this proves that the hardware is okay, but I'd still like
|||| to run some good diagnostic tests to prove that point. Anyone know
|||| of
|||| any diagnostics to run under Linux ?
|||| So, there is still a problem with installing or running Windows
|||| 2000, and I'm not too sure what to do next to solve it. I've now
|||| tried swapping everything in the system except for the CPU, but as
|||| Linux runs fine I'm guessing that it is okay.
|||| I will investigate the option of trying Win4Lin so my applications
|||| can be used, but there might be a problem. One of the most
|||| important applications is the Driver and Video software which
|||| comes with the Matrox G-series Rainbow Runner video capture card.
|||| I don't want to
|||| run programs under any sort of emulation which might comprimise
|||| performance, as the whole reason I built this machine was to have
|||| something fast enough for video editing. My Duron 1200 and Athlon
|||| 1.4 are plenty fast enough for everything else I do. The original
|||| problem is still present - Windows hangs when the 'Starting
|||| Windows' progress bar completes, when Mup.sys has been loaded. Now
|||| that I
|||| think we've eliminated a hardware problem, I am beginning to wonder
|||| if there isn't a problem with Windows itself. Windows 2000 is over
|||| four years old, the hardware is relatively recent. Could it be that
|||| they are just not compatible ?
|||| TIA
|||| Kevin.
||||
|||| John7 > wrote:
||||| Hi Kevin,
|||||
||||| Never heard about the 'Muppet problem', but one is never to old to
||||| learn.
|||||
||||| I found this solution for you:
||||| ----------------------------------
||||| Start the Recovery console or..
||||| Start the computer with the boot disks or Windows CDROM
||||| After the Welcome to Setup dialog box appears, press R to repair,
||||| and then press C to start Recovery console.
||||| Choose install Windows and log on as Administrator.
|||||
||||| At the command prompt type "disable Mup.sys"
|||||
||||| "MUP stands for "Multiple UNC Provider" which assists Windows in
||||| locating resources when more than one redirector is on a machine
||||| such as "Microsoft Client for Microsoft Networks" and the "Novell
||||| Client
||||| for Novell Netware". When a connection to a server is requested it
||||| does not know if the request is to a Novell server or an NT
||||| server. It will start looking for the server with the primary
||||| protocol on
||||| the primary requestor and then continue looking for the server on
||||| each protocol bound to each redirector until the server is found."
|||||
||||| Restart the computer and all should be well.
||||| ---------------------------
|||||
||||| I am curious about your results !
|||||
||||| HTH,
||||| John7
|||||
||||| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
||||| ...
|||||| The HD in question was clean to start with, as were some of the
|||||| others I've tried - so far 40, 60 & 80 Gb Seagate HDs. Same
|||||| result on all of them. All tried on another machine afterwards
|||||| with no problems. I don't use any disk manager software - modern
|||||| BIOSes can see the whole of the drive fine as is. If this was an
|||||| MBR problem then it wouldn't boot as far as it does, I think.
|||||| I've tried
|||||| slowing down the FSB speed, and also the memory speed, but still
|||||| no change. Tried replacing the Matrox G400 AGP card with a Matrox
|||||| Mystique PCI card (and changed BIOS) but still no change - it
|||||| boots as far as the 'Starting Windows' bar completes and then
|||||| hangs. In 'Safe Mode with Command Prompt' I can see Mup.sys as
|||||| the last file sucessfully
|||||| loaded. I think this is the famous 'muppet' problem !
|||||| Got myself a new PSU - a big beefy 550w job - and still no
|||||| change. So far, every piece of hardware except for the processor
|||||| has been swapped out.
|||||| Before buying another AMD XP2400 CPU I'd really like to make sure
|||||| something is wrong with the one I've got.
|||||| Does anyone know of any CPU testing/diagnostic software which I
|||||| could download and run from a floppy ?
|||||| TIA
|||||| Kevin.
||||||
|||||| John7 > wrote:
||||||| Kevin,
|||||||
||||||| Maybe Simon has a point ...
||||||| Is this HD brand new or was there another OS before?
||||||| Was any Disk Manager software installed before ?
||||||| This software survives even fdisk and format !
||||||| Try Win98 fdisk /mbr to restore a clean bootsector.
||||||| Try harddisk checkers / diagnostics to check the disk surface.
||||||| The first drive sectors are essential for stable OS
||||||| installation. As a last resort, run the low level formatter
||||||| from the drive mfg.
|||||||
||||||| Some other thoughts ...
||||||| I've seen PSU's that appear fine but collapse as soon as more
||||||| power is to delivered (e.g. when PC goes into graphics mode).
||||||| Now the m/board is outside the case, can't you hook it up to a
||||||| friend's PSU?
|||||||
||||||| Try running your CPU at a lower Front Side Bus Speed, best is
||||||| 100MHz. If Windows boots, run 'cpuid.exe' by www.h-oda.com to
||||||| check if the CPU is what it pretents to be. Background: there
||||||| are falsified re-labeled CPU's around (like 2000XP --> 2400XP,
||||||| so in essence running overclocked)
|||||||
||||||| I hope we find at least something here! :-)
|||||||
||||||| John7
|||||||
||||||| "Simon Elliott" > wrote in
||||||| message ...
|||||||| Kevin Lawton wrote:
||||||||
||||||||| <all snipped>
|||||||||
|||||||| Kevin
||||||||
|||||||| I appreciate it's not much help to say this but my combination
|||||||| of GA-7VRXP (Rev 1.1, I think) & Athlon 1600 works fine with
|||||||| W2K (and W95). It can be done.
||||||||
|||||||| If I've followed the thread correctly you've tried changing
|||||||| memory, but have you tried a different HDD?
||||||||
|||||||| --
||||||||
|||||||| Simon

Kevin Lawton
April 14th 04, 02:42 AM
Latest update on this long-running problem.
I've had some measure of success ! :-)
Having tried swapping every other piece of hardware in the system, I pulled
the precious XP2400 from the GA-7VRXP m/board and put in a Duron 650 - and
started again from scratch.
Windows 2000 installed normally and appears to be running fine - it has even
detected all the devices on the GA-7VRXP - so this appears to be an XP2400
problem ?
Where next ? I know of only two differences between the XP2400 and the
Duron 650:
1) The XP2400 is much faster - could this cause 'timing problems' ?
2) The XP2400 has SSE (streaming SIMD extensions) - could these cause
Windows 2000 to hang ?
Thanks to everyone for all the help so far, but I still have a problem to
solve - I need to have the XP2400 in this system.
Anyone got any ideas how to make it work with Windows 2000 - it works fine
with Windows Me and Linux ?
TIA (again)
Kevin.

Kevin Lawton > wrote:
| John7 > wrote:
|| Kevin,
||
|| MS KB has an article about slipstreaming. I don't know the details.
|
| I eventually found the article and it seems to be what I had imagined
| - a Windows 2000 install CD with the i386 directory updated with the
| latest service pack. Shouldn't be too difficult to create one, I
| think. I'll give it a try.
|
|| I shipped a system with GA7 VRXP+ and Win2K in 2003.
|| The only problem I remember was rev 1.x had problems with current
|| sucking GF4 VGA cards. So I swapped the m/board for a rev 2.0.
|
| I have heard of people having problems with GeForce video and VIA
| chipsets, but have performed plenty of good installations using
| Matrox.
|
|| But to be honest, I think we are drifting away...
|| The thread got too long, I lost overview.
|| It must be something simple we just overlooked.
|
| Might well be. I've been over all my previous steps with a
| fine-toothed comb and don't appear to have missed anything though.
|
|| There were some suggestions you never responded to
|| like having the CPU checked using H.Oda's 'wcpuid'.
|| Maybe the results provide some clues.
|
| Having recently installed Windows Me on the machine, I was able to run
| 'wcpuid' and all the figures checked-out exactly as I'd expected. The
| only noticable difference between this machine and all the others
| I've done is that this is the first processor I've used with SSE
| (streaming SIMD extensions). I know these cause problems with BeOS
| (you have to patch the Kernel) but would have thought Windows would
| be okay (bad assumption maybe ?).
| All the info about the m/board and graphics card were exactly as
| expected as well. I also tried a similar utility given by AMD with
| the same, correct, results.
|
|| Maybe it's better to start from fresh.
|| Flash latest BIOS, clean cmos (unplug mains and take battery out for
|| 1 min), set safe bios defaults, set boot order to cdrom-floppy-hd,
|| disable any virus/bios protections, disable as many onboard devices
|| as possible, m/board on table,
|
| It has all been done, but I've tried again to make sure. The BIOS
| supplied with the board is the same version as the latest on
| Gigabyte's web site.
|
|| cpu + fan, slowest FSB, 1 dimm (min 256MB), final VGA card, 1 hd (to
|| IDE1), cdrom (to IDE2), no front switches, no floppy yet, 550W psu,
|| simple ps2 kb and mouse. Make sure install cd's scratch and finger
|| print free, if you suspect
|| cdrom read problems, swap it. Start system by shorting the power
|| switch pins.
|
| To be honest, I always begin any new system as a 'minimum build' and
| then add all the extras in, one at a time, once I know the basics are
| working.
|
|| Install Win2K from CD is tell us how far you get. Work towards the
|| final system
|| step by step. Don't rush. Enable onboard devices one at a time and
|| install drivers if required.
|
| Gave it a try on a nice new fresh HD (I'm running out of unused ones
| !). Got as far as the first re-boot - okay, it rebooted.
| Examining hardware - and it did so.
| Starting Windows - lots of little files are quickly loaded.
| The progress bar completes - it hangs (HD light is off) for hours
| (still waiting after 3 hours).
|
| So after carefully retracing and repeating my steps I seem to be left
| with two choices: either have a try at making my own slipstreamed
| install disk or risk breaking the CPU core swapping it for the Duron
| 650.
| I guess the Duron 650 route will be quicker so I'll give it a try and
| report back. I have a nasty feeling about this. :-(
| Thanks again for your help,
| Kevin.
|
||
||
|| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
|| ...
||| John,
||| I'm not too sure what is meant by the term 'slipstreamed' in this
||| case. Does it mean Windows 2000 with the Service pack already in
||| place ?
||| If so, then I believe that I could build it myself by copying files
||| from the downloaded service pack's i386 directory into the i386
||| directory on the Windows 2000 install CD. Working on disk images of
||| the CD, of course, and then burning a new one. What do you reckon -
||| worth a shot ?
||| I searched the web for the Mup.sys problem and found quite a few
||| reports of problems similar to mine. In some cases, using the
||| recovery console to disable mup.sys has worked but not in others. In
||| some cases removing or changing some hardware has worked, but then
||| again not in others. In my case, I've swapped hardware to no avail.
||| Also, I don't seem to be able to get into the recovery console - I
||| just don't seem to have a 'R' = repair option at the 'Welcome to
||| Install' screen ! Very frustrating. :-(
||| For an alternative, I tried installing Windows Me - no problem at
||| all. I then tried installing Windows 2000 over the Me installation
||| ('upgrade') and the problem was still the same.
||| So to recap we have: DOS - okay, Linux - okay, Windows Me - okay,
||| Windows 2000 - no go.
||| I'll just have to keep trying.
||| Thanks,
||| Kevin.
|||
||| John7 > wrote:
|||| Kevin,
||||
|||| Try to get a recent Win2K with slipstreamed Service Pack 4.
|||| It may take more recent hardware into account.
||||
|||| B.t.w. there's quit some info about the mup.sys problem on the web.
||||
|||| Keep us posted.
|||| John7
||||
||||
|||| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
|||| ...
||||| I'm still baffled by my results.
||||| Tried disabling Mup.sys but the problem stayed there, it just
||||| finished loading the module previous to Mup.sys instead.
||||| After all the hardware swapping I decided it was time to try
||||| different software:
||||| I FDISKed the HD and installed Red Hat 9. Went in like a dream -
||||| 20 mins from FDISK to playing 'Tux Racer'. The hardware seems
||||| slick
||||| and flast and has been running now for about 6 hours with no
||||| problems.
||||| I guess this proves that the hardware is okay, but I'd still like
||||| to run some good diagnostic tests to prove that point. Anyone know
||||| of
||||| any diagnostics to run under Linux ?
||||| So, there is still a problem with installing or running Windows
||||| 2000, and I'm not too sure what to do next to solve it. I've now
||||| tried swapping everything in the system except for the CPU, but as
||||| Linux runs fine I'm guessing that it is okay.
||||| I will investigate the option of trying Win4Lin so my applications
||||| can be used, but there might be a problem. One of the most
||||| important applications is the Driver and Video software which
||||| comes with the Matrox G-series Rainbow Runner video capture card.
||||| I don't want to
||||| run programs under any sort of emulation which might comprimise
||||| performance, as the whole reason I built this machine was to have
||||| something fast enough for video editing. My Duron 1200 and Athlon
||||| 1.4 are plenty fast enough for everything else I do. The original
||||| problem is still present - Windows hangs when the 'Starting
||||| Windows' progress bar completes, when Mup.sys has been loaded. Now
||||| that I
||||| think we've eliminated a hardware problem, I am beginning to
||||| wonder
||||| if there isn't a problem with Windows itself. Windows 2000 is over
||||| four years old, the hardware is relatively recent. Could it be
||||| that they are just not compatible ?
||||| TIA
||||| Kevin.
|||||
||||| John7 > wrote:
|||||| Hi Kevin,
||||||
|||||| Never heard about the 'Muppet problem', but one is never to old
|||||| to learn.
||||||
|||||| I found this solution for you:
|||||| ----------------------------------
|||||| Start the Recovery console or..
|||||| Start the computer with the boot disks or Windows CDROM
|||||| After the Welcome to Setup dialog box appears, press R to repair,
|||||| and then press C to start Recovery console.
|||||| Choose install Windows and log on as Administrator.
||||||
|||||| At the command prompt type "disable Mup.sys"
||||||
|||||| "MUP stands for "Multiple UNC Provider" which assists Windows in
|||||| locating resources when more than one redirector is on a machine
|||||| such as "Microsoft Client for Microsoft Networks" and the "Novell
|||||| Client
|||||| for Novell Netware". When a connection to a server is requested
|||||| it does not know if the request is to a Novell server or an NT
|||||| server. It will start looking for the server with the primary
|||||| protocol on
|||||| the primary requestor and then continue looking for the server on
|||||| each protocol bound to each redirector until the server is
|||||| found."
||||||
|||||| Restart the computer and all should be well.
|||||| ---------------------------
||||||
|||||| I am curious about your results !
||||||
|||||| HTH,
|||||| John7
||||||
|||||| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
|||||| ...
||||||| The HD in question was clean to start with, as were some of the
||||||| others I've tried - so far 40, 60 & 80 Gb Seagate HDs. Same
||||||| result on all of them. All tried on another machine afterwards
||||||| with no problems. I don't use any disk manager software - modern
||||||| BIOSes can see the whole of the drive fine as is. If this was an
||||||| MBR problem then it wouldn't boot as far as it does, I think.
||||||| I've tried
||||||| slowing down the FSB speed, and also the memory speed, but still
||||||| no change. Tried replacing the Matrox G400 AGP card with a
||||||| Matrox Mystique PCI card (and changed BIOS) but still no change
||||||| - it
||||||| boots as far as the 'Starting Windows' bar completes and then
||||||| hangs. In 'Safe Mode with Command Prompt' I can see Mup.sys as
||||||| the last file sucessfully
||||||| loaded. I think this is the famous 'muppet' problem !
||||||| Got myself a new PSU - a big beefy 550w job - and still no
||||||| change. So far, every piece of hardware except for the processor
||||||| has been swapped out.
||||||| Before buying another AMD XP2400 CPU I'd really like to make
||||||| sure something is wrong with the one I've got.
||||||| Does anyone know of any CPU testing/diagnostic software which I
||||||| could download and run from a floppy ?
||||||| TIA
||||||| Kevin.
|||||||
||||||| John7 > wrote:
|||||||| Kevin,
||||||||
|||||||| Maybe Simon has a point ...
|||||||| Is this HD brand new or was there another OS before?
|||||||| Was any Disk Manager software installed before ?
|||||||| This software survives even fdisk and format !
|||||||| Try Win98 fdisk /mbr to restore a clean bootsector.
|||||||| Try harddisk checkers / diagnostics to check the disk surface.
|||||||| The first drive sectors are essential for stable OS
|||||||| installation. As a last resort, run the low level formatter
|||||||| from the drive mfg.
||||||||
|||||||| Some other thoughts ...
|||||||| I've seen PSU's that appear fine but collapse as soon as more
|||||||| power is to delivered (e.g. when PC goes into graphics mode).
|||||||| Now the m/board is outside the case, can't you hook it up to a
|||||||| friend's PSU?
||||||||
|||||||| Try running your CPU at a lower Front Side Bus Speed, best is
|||||||| 100MHz. If Windows boots, run 'cpuid.exe' by www.h-oda.com to
|||||||| check if the CPU is what it pretents to be. Background: there
|||||||| are falsified re-labeled CPU's around (like 2000XP --> 2400XP,
|||||||| so in essence running overclocked)
||||||||
|||||||| I hope we find at least something here! :-)
||||||||
|||||||| John7
||||||||
|||||||| "Simon Elliott" > wrote in
|||||||| message ...
||||||||| Kevin Lawton wrote:
|||||||||
|||||||||| <all snipped>
||||||||||
||||||||| Kevin
|||||||||
||||||||| I appreciate it's not much help to say this but my combination
||||||||| of GA-7VRXP (Rev 1.1, I think) & Athlon 1600 works fine with
||||||||| W2K (and W95). It can be done.
|||||||||
||||||||| If I've followed the thread correctly you've tried changing
||||||||| memory, but have you tried a different HDD?
|||||||||
||||||||| --
|||||||||
||||||||| Simon

John7
April 14th 04, 11:03 AM
Hi Kevin,

I called Gigabyte support today and amongst others asked for any VRXP
issues.
Except from current sucking VGA cards like GF4 there were no issues.
I was told bios F10 and F12 deal with FSB266 CPU's like your XP2400+.
There will be no more bios updates. They suggested to test the XP2400
elsewhere.
I thought about a thermal lockup, but GBT boards shut down the whole system.

Have you checked out AMD's FAQ, Knowledge Base and Forums?
I hope the slipstreamed Win2K CD works because I ran out of idea's.
Or consider WinXP instead.

John7


deals with XP2400 etc issues
"Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
...
> Latest update on this long-running problem.
> I've had some measure of success ! :-)
> Having tried swapping every other piece of hardware in the system, I
pulled
> the precious XP2400 from the GA-7VRXP m/board and put in a Duron 650 - and
> started again from scratch.
> Windows 2000 installed normally and appears to be running fine - it has
even
> detected all the devices on the GA-7VRXP - so this appears to be an XP2400
> problem ?
> Where next ? I know of only two differences between the XP2400 and the
> Duron 650:
> 1) The XP2400 is much faster - could this cause 'timing problems' ?
> 2) The XP2400 has SSE (streaming SIMD extensions) - could these cause
> Windows 2000 to hang ?
> Thanks to everyone for all the help so far, but I still have a problem to
> solve - I need to have the XP2400 in this system.
> Anyone got any ideas how to make it work with Windows 2000 - it works fine
> with Windows Me and Linux ?
> TIA (again)
> Kevin.
>
> Kevin Lawton > wrote:
> | John7 > wrote:
> || Kevin,
> ||
> || MS KB has an article about slipstreaming. I don't know the details.
> |
> | I eventually found the article and it seems to be what I had imagined
> | - a Windows 2000 install CD with the i386 directory updated with the
> | latest service pack. Shouldn't be too difficult to create one, I
> | think. I'll give it a try.
> |
> || I shipped a system with GA7 VRXP+ and Win2K in 2003.
> || The only problem I remember was rev 1.x had problems with current
> || sucking GF4 VGA cards. So I swapped the m/board for a rev 2.0.
> |
> | I have heard of people having problems with GeForce video and VIA
> | chipsets, but have performed plenty of good installations using
> | Matrox.
> |
> || But to be honest, I think we are drifting away...
> || The thread got too long, I lost overview.
> || It must be something simple we just overlooked.
> |
> | Might well be. I've been over all my previous steps with a
> | fine-toothed comb and don't appear to have missed anything though.
> |
> || There were some suggestions you never responded to
> || like having the CPU checked using H.Oda's 'wcpuid'.
> || Maybe the results provide some clues.
> |
> | Having recently installed Windows Me on the machine, I was able to run
> | 'wcpuid' and all the figures checked-out exactly as I'd expected. The
> | only noticable difference between this machine and all the others
> | I've done is that this is the first processor I've used with SSE
> | (streaming SIMD extensions). I know these cause problems with BeOS
> | (you have to patch the Kernel) but would have thought Windows would
> | be okay (bad assumption maybe ?).
> | All the info about the m/board and graphics card were exactly as
> | expected as well. I also tried a similar utility given by AMD with
> | the same, correct, results.
> |
> || Maybe it's better to start from fresh.
> || Flash latest BIOS, clean cmos (unplug mains and take battery out for
> || 1 min), set safe bios defaults, set boot order to cdrom-floppy-hd,
> || disable any virus/bios protections, disable as many onboard devices
> || as possible, m/board on table,
> |
> | It has all been done, but I've tried again to make sure. The BIOS
> | supplied with the board is the same version as the latest on
> | Gigabyte's web site.
> |
> || cpu + fan, slowest FSB, 1 dimm (min 256MB), final VGA card, 1 hd (to
> || IDE1), cdrom (to IDE2), no front switches, no floppy yet, 550W psu,
> || simple ps2 kb and mouse. Make sure install cd's scratch and finger
> || print free, if you suspect
> || cdrom read problems, swap it. Start system by shorting the power
> || switch pins.
> |
> | To be honest, I always begin any new system as a 'minimum build' and
> | then add all the extras in, one at a time, once I know the basics are
> | working.
> |
> || Install Win2K from CD is tell us how far you get. Work towards the
> || final system
> || step by step. Don't rush. Enable onboard devices one at a time and
> || install drivers if required.
> |
> | Gave it a try on a nice new fresh HD (I'm running out of unused ones
> | !). Got as far as the first re-boot - okay, it rebooted.
> | Examining hardware - and it did so.
> | Starting Windows - lots of little files are quickly loaded.
> | The progress bar completes - it hangs (HD light is off) for hours
> | (still waiting after 3 hours).
> |
> | So after carefully retracing and repeating my steps I seem to be left
> | with two choices: either have a try at making my own slipstreamed
> | install disk or risk breaking the CPU core swapping it for the Duron
> | 650.
> | I guess the Duron 650 route will be quicker so I'll give it a try and
> | report back. I have a nasty feeling about this. :-(
> | Thanks again for your help,
> | Kevin.
> |
> ||
> ||
> || "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
> || ...
> ||| John,
> ||| I'm not too sure what is meant by the term 'slipstreamed' in this
> ||| case. Does it mean Windows 2000 with the Service pack already in
> ||| place ?
> ||| If so, then I believe that I could build it myself by copying files
> ||| from the downloaded service pack's i386 directory into the i386
> ||| directory on the Windows 2000 install CD. Working on disk images of
> ||| the CD, of course, and then burning a new one. What do you reckon -
> ||| worth a shot ?
> ||| I searched the web for the Mup.sys problem and found quite a few
> ||| reports of problems similar to mine. In some cases, using the
> ||| recovery console to disable mup.sys has worked but not in others. In
> ||| some cases removing or changing some hardware has worked, but then
> ||| again not in others. In my case, I've swapped hardware to no avail.
> ||| Also, I don't seem to be able to get into the recovery console - I
> ||| just don't seem to have a 'R' = repair option at the 'Welcome to
> ||| Install' screen ! Very frustrating. :-(
> ||| For an alternative, I tried installing Windows Me - no problem at
> ||| all. I then tried installing Windows 2000 over the Me installation
> ||| ('upgrade') and the problem was still the same.
> ||| So to recap we have: DOS - okay, Linux - okay, Windows Me - okay,
> ||| Windows 2000 - no go.
> ||| I'll just have to keep trying.
> ||| Thanks,
> ||| Kevin.
> |||
> ||| John7 > wrote:
> |||| Kevin,
> ||||
> |||| Try to get a recent Win2K with slipstreamed Service Pack 4.
> |||| It may take more recent hardware into account.
> ||||
> |||| B.t.w. there's quit some info about the mup.sys problem on the web.
> ||||
> |||| Keep us posted.
> |||| John7
> ||||
> ||||
> |||| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
> |||| ...
> ||||| I'm still baffled by my results.
> ||||| Tried disabling Mup.sys but the problem stayed there, it just
> ||||| finished loading the module previous to Mup.sys instead.
> ||||| After all the hardware swapping I decided it was time to try
> ||||| different software:
> ||||| I FDISKed the HD and installed Red Hat 9. Went in like a dream -
> ||||| 20 mins from FDISK to playing 'Tux Racer'. The hardware seems
> ||||| slick
> ||||| and flast and has been running now for about 6 hours with no
> ||||| problems.
> ||||| I guess this proves that the hardware is okay, but I'd still like
> ||||| to run some good diagnostic tests to prove that point. Anyone know
> ||||| of
> ||||| any diagnostics to run under Linux ?
> ||||| So, there is still a problem with installing or running Windows
> ||||| 2000, and I'm not too sure what to do next to solve it. I've now
> ||||| tried swapping everything in the system except for the CPU, but as
> ||||| Linux runs fine I'm guessing that it is okay.
> ||||| I will investigate the option of trying Win4Lin so my applications
> ||||| can be used, but there might be a problem. One of the most
> ||||| important applications is the Driver and Video software which
> ||||| comes with the Matrox G-series Rainbow Runner video capture card.
> ||||| I don't want to
> ||||| run programs under any sort of emulation which might comprimise
> ||||| performance, as the whole reason I built this machine was to have
> ||||| something fast enough for video editing. My Duron 1200 and Athlon
> ||||| 1.4 are plenty fast enough for everything else I do. The original
> ||||| problem is still present - Windows hangs when the 'Starting
> ||||| Windows' progress bar completes, when Mup.sys has been loaded. Now
> ||||| that I
> ||||| think we've eliminated a hardware problem, I am beginning to
> ||||| wonder
> ||||| if there isn't a problem with Windows itself. Windows 2000 is over
> ||||| four years old, the hardware is relatively recent. Could it be
> ||||| that they are just not compatible ?
> ||||| TIA
> ||||| Kevin.
> |||||
> ||||| John7 > wrote:
> |||||| Hi Kevin,
> ||||||
> |||||| Never heard about the 'Muppet problem', but one is never to old
> |||||| to learn.
> ||||||
> |||||| I found this solution for you:
> |||||| ----------------------------------
> |||||| Start the Recovery console or..
> |||||| Start the computer with the boot disks or Windows CDROM
> |||||| After the Welcome to Setup dialog box appears, press R to repair,
> |||||| and then press C to start Recovery console.
> |||||| Choose install Windows and log on as Administrator.
> ||||||
> |||||| At the command prompt type "disable Mup.sys"
> ||||||
> |||||| "MUP stands for "Multiple UNC Provider" which assists Windows in
> |||||| locating resources when more than one redirector is on a machine
> |||||| such as "Microsoft Client for Microsoft Networks" and the "Novell
> |||||| Client
> |||||| for Novell Netware". When a connection to a server is requested
> |||||| it does not know if the request is to a Novell server or an NT
> |||||| server. It will start looking for the server with the primary
> |||||| protocol on
> |||||| the primary requestor and then continue looking for the server on
> |||||| each protocol bound to each redirector until the server is
> |||||| found."
> ||||||
> |||||| Restart the computer and all should be well.
> |||||| ---------------------------
> ||||||
> |||||| I am curious about your results !
> ||||||
> |||||| HTH,
> |||||| John7
> ||||||
> |||||| "Kevin Lawton" > wrote in message
> |||||| ...
> ||||||| The HD in question was clean to start with, as were some of the
> ||||||| others I've tried - so far 40, 60 & 80 Gb Seagate HDs. Same
> ||||||| result on all of them. All tried on another machine afterwards
> ||||||| with no problems. I don't use any disk manager software - modern
> ||||||| BIOSes can see the whole of the drive fine as is. If this was an
> ||||||| MBR problem then it wouldn't boot as far as it does, I think.
> ||||||| I've tried
> ||||||| slowing down the FSB speed, and also the memory speed, but still
> ||||||| no change. Tried replacing the Matrox G400 AGP card with a
> ||||||| Matrox Mystique PCI card (and changed BIOS) but still no change
> ||||||| - it
> ||||||| boots as far as the 'Starting Windows' bar completes and then
> ||||||| hangs. In 'Safe Mode with Command Prompt' I can see Mup.sys as
> ||||||| the last file sucessfully
> ||||||| loaded. I think this is the famous 'muppet' problem !
> ||||||| Got myself a new PSU - a big beefy 550w job - and still no
> ||||||| change. So far, every piece of hardware except for the processor
> ||||||| has been swapped out.
> ||||||| Before buying another AMD XP2400 CPU I'd really like to make
> ||||||| sure something is wrong with the one I've got.
> ||||||| Does anyone know of any CPU testing/diagnostic software which I
> ||||||| could download and run from a floppy ?
> ||||||| TIA
> ||||||| Kevin.
> |||||||
> ||||||| John7 > wrote:
> |||||||| Kevin,
> ||||||||
> |||||||| Maybe Simon has a point ...
> |||||||| Is this HD brand new or was there another OS before?
> |||||||| Was any Disk Manager software installed before ?
> |||||||| This software survives even fdisk and format !
> |||||||| Try Win98 fdisk /mbr to restore a clean bootsector.
> |||||||| Try harddisk checkers / diagnostics to check the disk surface.
> |||||||| The first drive sectors are essential for stable OS
> |||||||| installation. As a last resort, run the low level formatter
> |||||||| from the drive mfg.
> ||||||||
> |||||||| Some other thoughts ...
> |||||||| I've seen PSU's that appear fine but collapse as soon as more
> |||||||| power is to delivered (e.g. when PC goes into graphics mode).
> |||||||| Now the m/board is outside the case, can't you hook it up to a
> |||||||| friend's PSU?
> ||||||||
> |||||||| Try running your CPU at a lower Front Side Bus Speed, best is
> |||||||| 100MHz. If Windows boots, run 'cpuid.exe' by www.h-oda.com to
> |||||||| check if the CPU is what it pretents to be. Background: there
> |||||||| are falsified re-labeled CPU's around (like 2000XP --> 2400XP,
> |||||||| so in essence running overclocked)
> ||||||||
> |||||||| I hope we find at least something here! :-)
> ||||||||
> |||||||| John7
> ||||||||
> |||||||| "Simon Elliott" > wrote in
> |||||||| message ...
> ||||||||| Kevin Lawton wrote:
> |||||||||
> |||||||||| <all snipped>
> ||||||||||
> ||||||||| Kevin
> |||||||||
> ||||||||| I appreciate it's not much help to say this but my combination
> ||||||||| of GA-7VRXP (Rev 1.1, I think) & Athlon 1600 works fine with
> ||||||||| W2K (and W95). It can be done.
> |||||||||
> ||||||||| If I've followed the thread correctly you've tried changing
> ||||||||| memory, but have you tried a different HDD?
> |||||||||
> ||||||||| --
> |||||||||
> ||||||||| Simon
>
>