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Damaeus[_3_]
November 11th 12, 10:31 AM
Sorry, this is kind of long, but I'm trying to be thorough:

First of all, I recently (within the last week) got a new 27" Acer S271HL
monitor that'll run 1920 x 1080. I love that. For the first couple or
three days, all I did was desktop stuff and Facebook games like Chefville,
Farmville 2, Total Domination: Nuclear Strategy, and Cityville 2. At
first everything was fine. But now there's a problem that has surfaced.
My PC will sometimes shut down with no warning, and here are the three
instances (and only three) in which it has happened so far:

The first time, I decided to see what Age of Empires III would be like in
widescreen glory. I got through the title screen and whatnot and started
a skirmish. Before I could even get my first town center built, my PC
powered off all at once.

The second and third times, it happened when going full-screen with
Farmville 2. Farmville 2, in case you don't know, has gone to "3D" and
the animation is smooth and silky. The first time the PC switched off in
Farmville 2, it happened about five seconds after I went full-screen. The
second time, it happen immediately. Like I didn't even see the
full-screen manifest before I was staring at a black screen that said "No
input signal" or something like that. I also want to point out that
Farmville 2 is not as CPU intensive as even something like Cafe World,
which is a sluggish, crappy game. Cafe World loads the CPU at around 50%,
give or take five, and Farmville seems happy with about a 30-32% load.

HWMonitor has my idling GPU as Core #0 28-29+ALo-C, Core #1 32-34+ALo-C. I tried
Farmville 2 again in full-screen before posting here and the temperature
there for Core #1 rose to about 40-42+ALo-C. But my idle temperature for the
GPU is showing 60+ALo-C. HWMonitor shows the GPU temperature went as high as
69+ALo-C. Switching to 1280 x 720 didn't cause the temperature to drop, but
the display looks fuzzy at that resolution so I hate that.

I don't think it's good for a computer or a file system to just shut off
all at once so I don't really like "testing" it because if something blows
out, I can't afford to replace it right now. I'm just wondering if this
60+ALo-C idle speed is a bit too hot. It sure seems hot to me. It dipped to
59+ALo-C, according to HWMonitor, but no lower than that.

I'm thinking about underclocking this graphics card since it's overclocked
from the factory -- not by much, but if it's running too hot, I don't mind
losing a few cycles since I don't even have any recent games. I don't
even have any games that were "recent" when I built this rig in November
of 2006. The only game I really play that's a real video game is Final
Fantasy XI Online and it's limited to 30 frames per second. So far the
computer hasn't shut down playing that game, but I haven't played it much
since getting this new monitor, and I haven't checked the temperatures
when playing FFXI, either.

I used to run 1600 x 1200 on my old 22" CRT that was killed by a bad power
supply. It died before Farmville 2 came out, so the only comparison I
have with that game is with the 15" LCD monitor (1024 x 768) I borrowed
from a friend until I could get this new one.

Sorry for being so long-winded. Here's the hardware I'm running:


..---------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Abit Fatal1ty AN9 32x | |
| AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+- | |
| 2 GB DDR2 800 SDRAM | |
| Western Digital 320GB HD (NTFS) | EAT AT JOE'S |
| BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC 512MB | |
| Acer S271HL - 1920 x 1080 | |
| PSU: Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB 850w | |
| (Less than a year old) | |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
| OS: MS Windows XP Home Edition - SP2 (5.1.2600) |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'

Damaeus[_3_]
November 11th 12, 10:59 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 03:31:47
-0600 the following:

> I'm thinking about underclocking this graphics card since it's overclocked
> from the factory -- not by much, but if it's running too hot, I don't mind
> losing a few cycles since I don't even have any recent games.

From what I've been able to find out, factory nVidia 7950GT cards have a
GPU clock speed of 550. Afterburner shows it running at 565. If I lower
the GPU clock speed to 550, what should I set the memory clock to? It's
currently set at 715, according to Afterburner.

Thanks,
Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 11th 12, 11:23 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 03:31:47
-0600 the following:

> But now there's a problem that has surfaced.
> My PC will sometimes shut down with no warning, and here are the three
> instances (and only three) in which it has happened so far:

Okay, add a fourth instance...it just shut down when I tried to play Final
Fantasy XI! Nooooo!!! It happened right at the instant when I was
expecting the screen to come up to have me accept the terms of playing the
game. This is the same instant (going full-screen) when Farmville 2 would
cause a shutdown, but only one of the times. The other time, I got about
ten seconds of play time in Farmville 2 and Age of Empires III before I
got a shut-down. There was not enough time for FFXI to drive the GPU
temperature up at all. I had HWMonitor running always-on-top to monitor
the temperatures while playing the game, but I didn't even get that far.
The GPU was reading 61+ALo-C when everything went black.

This is going to drive me insane!

I guess next, it'll start shutting down when I'm reading web pages. :'(

I'm going to run a full virus scan, assuming that won't cause my system to
shut down, too.

Damaeus

Paul
November 11th 12, 03:54 PM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> <no-mail+AEA-damaeus.earthlink.invalid> posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 03:31:47
> -0600 the following:
>
>> But now there's a problem that has surfaced.
>> My PC will sometimes shut down with no warning, and here are the three
>> instances (and only three) in which it has happened so far:
>
> Okay, add a fourth instance...it just shut down when I tried to play Final
> Fantasy XI! Nooooo!!! It happened right at the instant when I was
> expecting the screen to come up to have me accept the terms of playing the
> game. This is the same instant (going full-screen) when Farmville 2 would
> cause a shutdown, but only one of the times. The other time, I got about
> ten seconds of play time in Farmville 2 and Age of Empires III before I
> got a shut-down. There was not enough time for FFXI to drive the GPU
> temperature up at all. I had HWMonitor running always-on-top to monitor
> the temperatures while playing the game, but I didn't even get that far.
> The GPU was reading 61+ALo-C when everything went black.
>
> This is going to drive me insane!
>
> I guess next, it'll start shutting down when I'm reading web pages. :'(
>
> I'm going to run a full virus scan, assuming that won't cause my system to
> shut down, too.
>
> Damaeus

Do you have a copy of Prime95, or CPUBurn, or a similar loading
program ? Try running the PC at 100+ACU- CPU load first.

The thing is, I think you have a +ACo-CPU+ACo- temperature issue.
Use your hardware monitoring programs, to watch the CPU temperature
and see if it is going too high.

Modern PCs are protected by THERMTRIP. It triggers
when the PC gets too hot, and shuts off the power.
I think your CPU gets too hot, and THERMTRIP is
turning off the PC.

Check the clip that holds the CPU cooler to the CPU socket.
One of the tabs on the CPU socket may have snapped off,
and your cooler is hanging on by just one tab. That's
the easiest explanation for your problem. You
probably have an Arctic Cooling after-market
cooler, that has snapped off a tab.

It's not the fault of the video card.

Paul

Buffalo[_2_]
November 11th 12, 05:02 PM
Damaeus wrote:
> Sorry, this is kind of long, but I'm trying to be thorough:
>
> First of all, I recently (within the last week) got a new 27" Acer
> S271HL monitor that'll run 1920 x 1080. I love that. For the first
> couple or three days, all I did was desktop stuff and Facebook games
> like Chefville, Farmville 2, Total Domination: Nuclear Strategy, and
> Cityville 2. At first everything was fine. But now there's a
> problem that has surfaced. My PC will sometimes shut down with no
> warning, and here are the three instances (and only three) in which
> it has happened so far:
>
> The first time, I decided to see what Age of Empires III would be
> like in widescreen glory. I got through the title screen and whatnot
> and started a skirmish. Before I could even get my first town center
> built, my PC powered off all at once.
>
> The second and third times, it happened when going full-screen with
> Farmville 2. Farmville 2, in case you don't know, has gone to "3D"
> and the animation is smooth and silky. The first time the PC
> switched off in Farmville 2, it happened about five seconds after I
> went full-screen. The second time, it happen immediately. Like I
> didn't even see the full-screen manifest before I was staring at a
> black screen that said "No input signal" or something like that. I
> also want to point out that Farmville 2 is not as CPU intensive as
> even something like Cafe World, which is a sluggish, crappy game.
> Cafe World loads the CPU at around 50%, give or take five, and
> Farmville seems happy with about a 30-32% load.
>
> HWMonitor has my idling GPU as Core #0 28-29șC, Core #1 32-34șC. I
> tried Farmville 2 again in full-screen before posting here and the
> temperature there for Core #1 rose to about 40-42șC. But my idle
> temperature for the GPU is showing 60șC. HWMonitor shows the GPU
> temperature went as high as 69șC. Switching to 1280 x 720 didn't
> cause the temperature to drop, but the display looks fuzzy at that
> resolution so I hate that.
>
> I don't think it's good for a computer or a file system to just shut
> off all at once so I don't really like "testing" it because if
> something blows out, I can't afford to replace it right now. I'm
> just wondering if this 60șC idle speed is a bit too hot. It sure
> seems hot to me. It dipped to 59șC, according to HWMonitor, but no
> lower than that.
>
> I'm thinking about underclocking this graphics card since it's
> overclocked from the factory -- not by much, but if it's running too
> hot, I don't mind losing a few cycles since I don't even have any
> recent games. I don't even have any games that were "recent" when I
> built this rig in November of 2006. The only game I really play
> that's a real video game is Final Fantasy XI Online and it's limited
> to 30 frames per second. So far the computer hasn't shut down
> playing that game, but I haven't played it much since getting this
> new monitor, and I haven't checked the temperatures when playing
> FFXI, either.
>
> I used to run 1600 x 1200 on my old 22" CRT that was killed by a bad
> power supply. It died before Farmville 2 came out, so the only
> comparison I have with that game is with the 15" LCD monitor (1024 x
> 768) I borrowed from a friend until I could get this new one.
>
> Sorry for being so long-winded. Here's the hardware I'm running:
>
>
> .---------------------------------------------------------------------.
>> Abit Fatal1ty AN9 32x | |
>> AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ | |
>> 2 GB DDR2 800 SDRAM | |
>> Western Digital 320GB HD (NTFS) | EAT AT JOE'S |
>> BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC 512MB | |
>> Acer S271HL - 1920 x 1080 | |
>> PSU: Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB 850w | |
>> (Less than a year old) | |
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------|
>> OS: MS Windows XP Home Edition - SP2 (5.1.2600) |
> '---------------------------------------------------------------------'

Try upgrading to SP 3 and also uninstall and reinstall the vid card drivers.
Perhaps even use Driver Cleaner to get all the old remnants of the vid
drivers out before reinstalling the new ones.
Ck cpu temp as Paul suggested.
Check vid card and cpu fan and cooling fins.
Is the computer actually shutting down, or just a lack of video signal?
Buffalo
PS: Does your monitor require any drivers?

Damaeus[_3_]
November 11th 12, 11:33 PM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:54:16 -0500 the following:

> Damaeus wrote:
> > In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> > > posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 03:31:47
> > -0600 the following:
> >
> >> But now there's a problem that has surfaced.
> >> My PC will sometimes shut down with no warning, and here are the three
> >> instances (and only three) in which it has happened so far:
> >
> > Okay, add a fourth instance...it just shut down when I tried to play Final
> > Fantasy XI! Nooooo!!! It happened right at the instant when I was
> > expecting the screen to come up to have me accept the terms of playing the
> > game. This is the same instant (going full-screen) when Farmville 2 would
> > cause a shutdown, but only one of the times. The other time, I got about
> > ten seconds of play time in Farmville 2 and Age of Empires III before I
> > got a shut-down. There was not enough time for FFXI to drive the GPU
> > temperature up at all. I had HWMonitor running always-on-top to monitor
> > the temperatures while playing the game, but I didn't even get that far.
> > The GPU was reading 61+ALo-C when everything went black.
> >
> > This is going to drive me insane!
> >
> > I guess next, it'll start shutting down when I'm reading web pages. :'(
> >
> > I'm going to run a full virus scan, assuming that won't cause my system to
> > shut down, too.

I did a virus scan of the system files and program files. No viruses were
found. (Avast! 7.0.1474 with latest database updates.)

> Do you have a copy of Prime95, or CPUBurn, or a similar loading
> program ? Try running the PC at 100% CPU load first.

I'll try that.

> The thing is, I think you have a *CPU* temperature issue.
> Use your hardware monitoring programs, to watch the CPU temperature
> and see if it is going too high.

Yes, I did that already and accidentally referred to the CPU as a GPU in
the original post.

Idle temperatures for the CPU, according to HWMonitor, are these idle
speeds. Core #1 gets as high as 40+ALo-C running Farmville 2:

Core #0 - 26+ALo-C - 31+ALo-C (Idle)
Core #1 - 30+ALo-C - 35+ALo-C (Idle)

Hard drive air flow is steady at 30+ALo-C.

GPU idle 58+ALo-C - 60+ALo-C
GPU Fan shows 20% Max/Min and that seems to never change since I
started monitoring it in the last couple of days.

> Modern PCs are protected by THERMTRIP. It triggers
> when the PC gets too hot, and shuts off the power.
> I think your CPU gets too hot, and THERMTRIP is
> turning off the PC.

Woops, in my original post, I accidentally said "GPU" instead of "CPU". I
monitored the CPU temperatures before posting originally. The correct
ranges are shown above.

> Check the clip that holds the CPU cooler to the CPU socket.
> One of the tabs on the CPU socket may have snapped off,
> and your cooler is hanging on by just one tab. That's
> the easiest explanation for your problem. You
> probably have an Arctic Cooling after-market
> cooler, that has snapped off a tab.

The heatsink and fan are the ones that came with the AMD processor in a
retail package. The assembly is fine and looks tight to me.

> It's not the fault of the video card.

60+ALo-C does seem to be a bit hot for a GPU idle speed when just displaying a
desktop, though. I've seen others on the web posting idle temperatures of
50+ALo-C. I'm not sure if an overheating GPU will cause a computer to turn
itself off.

I'm going to do as Buffalo suggested and upgrade to WinXP SP-3. I thought
I had done that already. Surprise, surprise!

If nothing else, I may do a clean install of WinXP. I've been running
this install since 2006, but it's been really stable until now. I'm able
to keep it up and running for over a month at a time and even then, I
often just reboot to stabilize an animation paging problem in PlayOnline
(the entry program for Final Fantasy XI); after Windows has been up and
running for a couple of days, the pages of animation for PlayOnline are
all out of order and very jittery, but it's been doing that since the day
I built this thing. It plays the Final Fantasy game itself just fine, but
some other games, like the old Deus Ex game, also exhibit animation frames
out of order. Maybe I've had a faulty video card all along? Yet even so,
the PC has never turned itself off until after hooking up this new
monitor. And this is the first week I've ever run it at 1920 x 1080. The
maximum resolution I'd been running with my old CRT was 1600 x 1200 at an
85Hz refresh rate. The higher resolution is only another 153,600 pixels,
and this is only at a 60Hz refresh rate.

Thanks for all this. I'll get to work on the other suggestions later
tonight.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 11th 12, 11:33 PM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
> posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:02:20 -0700 the
following:

> Damaeus wrote:
>
> > First of all, I recently (within the last week) got a new 27" Acer
> > S271HL monitor that'll run 1920 x 1080. I love that. For the first
> > couple or three days, all I did was desktop stuff and Facebook games
> > like Chefville, Farmville 2, Total Domination: Nuclear Strategy, and
> > Cityville 2. At first everything was fine. But now there's a
> > problem that has surfaced. My PC will sometimes shut down with no
> > warning, and here are the three instances (and only three) in which
> > it has happened so far:
[...]
>
> Try upgrading to SP 3 and also uninstall and reinstall the vid card drivers.

I'll do that tonight after 1am Central so it won't impact the "Fair Access
Policy" of the satellite internet service we (try) to use.

> Perhaps even use Driver Cleaner to get all the old remnants of the vid
> drivers out before reinstalling the new ones.
> Ck cpu temp as Paul suggested.

Yeah, CPU temperatures run 29+ALo-C to 40+ALo-C. GPU temperature idles at 60+ALo-C
and has been as high as 69+ALo-C in Farmville 2. I was going to check the GPU
temperature in Final Fantasy XI, but when I last tried to run that game,
the computer turned itself off again.

> Check vid card and cpu fan and cooling fins.

Yes, those had little dust in them, but I blew them out anyway before
posting. It didn't make a difference in temperature.

> Is the computer actually shutting down, or just a lack of video signal?

The computer completely goes off in one instant+IBQ-no shutdown process even
tries to happen. It's just OFF totally.

> PS: Does your monitor require any drivers?

I don't know that they're required, but I do have them installed. It was
one of the first things I did after hooking up the new monitor. I
downloaded them from the Acer website, so they're the most recent version.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 11th 12, 11:37 PM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:54:16 -0500 the following:

> It's not the fault of the video card.

What amazes me is that I just got a response from Acer technical support
on this and they say I need to send this monitor in for repair! That's
unbelievable:

> I understand that your unit gets shut down when you play games.
>
> I can imagine how inconvenient this would be. I will do my best to help
> you.
>
> I have verified your product serial number and found that the unit is
> covered under standard limited warranty.
>
> I would request you to send your unit for repair with one-way shipping
> charges. Prior to setting up the service, we need to have your system
> registered in our database.
>
> Please help us with this information to complete the registration
> process and to place an order for repair.

Paul
November 12th 12, 12:55 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
> posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:54:16 -0500 the following:
>
>> It's not the fault of the video card.
>
> What amazes me is that I just got a response from Acer technical support
> on this and they say I need to send this monitor in for repair! That's
> unbelievable:

If the computer internal cooling fans stayed spinning, then
the computer is not shutting off on an overheat.

60C is no big deal for a video card. Running at 95C is
getting close to the limit. The chip can take a bit more
than that, but you wouldn't want the video card running that
hot for years on end.

The video card is *not* wired into THERMTRIP. It is easy
for a video card to overheat, and melt any plastic bits
mounted near the GPU. All it takes is a fan failure,
and you won't even get a whimper out of it. It'll just
overheat, until you see lines on the screen (too late),
or smell plastic burning (too late). When NVidia released
a driver where they didn't set the fan speed properly
in the driver, some cards were damaged by that. Because
there wasn't an effective thermal control method for the
thing.

If the screen just goes black, but there are no other symptoms,
yes, that can be the monitor. Some monitors have a 120V power
supply inside, and the capacitors in the power section go bad
and leak. There are a fair number of defective models out
there. That could be why they're recommending a repair.

Just to be clear, a computer shutting off and the fans stopping...
is a different set of symptoms from the monitor going black
in mid session (and the computer fans are still running).

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 12th 12, 02:55 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 18:55:03 -0500 the following:

> If the screen just goes black, but there are no other symptoms,
> yes, that can be the monitor. Some monitors have a 120V power
> supply inside, and the capacitors in the power section go bad
> and leak. There are a fair number of defective models out
> there. That could be why they're recommending a repair.
>
> Just to be clear, a computer shutting off and the fans stopping...
> is a different set of symptoms from the monitor going black
> in mid session (and the computer fans are still running).

Well, the monitor only goes black because the computer shuts off, which
also shuts down the video signal. The monitor still works, however,
because it displays "no video signal", then goes into standby mode (the
blue power illumination turns to amber).

Maybe technical support thinks I'm one of those people who thinks the
monitor is the computer. I know someone who "turns off the computer" by
pushing the power switch on the monitor, which, of course, still leaves
the actual computer running.

I'm saying the tower shuts down and the monitor remains on long enough to
tell me there's no video signal, then the monitor goes into standby mode.

Damaeus

Paul
November 12th 12, 03:02 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
> posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 18:55:03 -0500 the following:
>
>> If the screen just goes black, but there are no other symptoms,
>> yes, that can be the monitor. Some monitors have a 120V power
>> supply inside, and the capacitors in the power section go bad
>> and leak. There are a fair number of defective models out
>> there. That could be why they're recommending a repair.
>>
>> Just to be clear, a computer shutting off and the fans stopping...
>> is a different set of symptoms from the monitor going black
>> in mid session (and the computer fans are still running).
>
> Well, the monitor only goes black because the computer shuts off, which
> also shuts down the video signal. The monitor still works, however,
> because it displays "no video signal", then goes into standby mode (the
> blue power illumination turns to amber).
>
> Maybe technical support thinks I'm one of those people who thinks the
> monitor is the computer. I know someone who "turns off the computer" by
> pushing the power switch on the monitor, which, of course, still leaves
> the actual computer running.
>
> I'm saying the tower shuts down and the monitor remains on long enough to
> tell me there's no video signal, then the monitor goes into standby mode.
>
> Damaeus
>

That would normally be happening on a CPU overheat (computer switches
off, fans stop). I don't think the GPU driver has any say about
protecting the video card. At least, I run into enough reports
of "melted fans", to think that video cards lack effective
protection.

Some modern video cards, do have the ability to gate the clocks
or reduce power dissipation to such an extent, that they could
ease an overtemperature situation. But a lot of the older
silicon, has a high enough power dissipation, that just
leaving the main core power running on the video card,
is enough to cook it if the fan fails or the heatsink is loose.
I would not personally, be relying on clock gating, to
save my video card. While it might prevent a disaster,
I might just as likely find a melted fan some day, as
evidence my card is dead.

When the power connector burned on my ATI video card,
the first warning I got was when the ATI "you didn't
plug in my power cable" warning appeared on the screen.
On opening the case, I could see the burned connector,
as proof it wasn't getting power any more.

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 12th 12, 04:47 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:02:35 -0500 the following:

> Damaeus wrote:
>
> > I'm saying the tower shuts down and the monitor remains on long enough to
> > tell me there's no video signal, then the monitor goes into standby mode.
>
> That would normally be happening on a CPU overheat (computer switches
> off, fans stop). I don't think the GPU driver has any say about
> protecting the video card. At least, I run into enough reports
> of "melted fans", to think that video cards lack effective
> protection.

Yes, but another thing is that I was actually watching HWMonitor when the
tower switched off and when that happened, the CPU core was reading about
46+ALo-C, which is not hot enough to cause it to shut down. That's why I'm so
baffled. I do understand and have understood for a long time that
computers shut down to protect the CPU from overheating, but I just don't
see any overheating going on unless the temperature suddenly skyrockets
before HWMonitor can detect it.

I'm still waiting for the electricity to go out here to see what kind of
load there is on my battery backup (APC 1500XS). It was able to keep my
tower and 22" CRT up and running for about 20 minutes when the electricity
went out before. We just haven't had a power failure in the last week.

I'm going to start downloading the WindowsXP SP-3 updates in about three
hours.

Damaeus

Paul
November 12th 12, 06:19 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul <nospam+AEA-needed.com>
> posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:02:35 -0500 the following:
>
>> Damaeus wrote:
>>
>>> I'm saying the tower shuts down and the monitor remains on long enough to
>>> tell me there's no video signal, then the monitor goes into standby mode.
>> That would normally be happening on a CPU overheat (computer switches
>> off, fans stop). I don't think the GPU driver has any say about
>> protecting the video card. At least, I run into enough reports
>> of "melted fans", to think that video cards lack effective
>> protection.
>
> Yes, but another thing is that I was actually watching HWMonitor when the
> tower switched off and when that happened, the CPU core was reading about
> 46+ALo-C, which is not hot enough to cause it to shut down. That's why I'm so
> baffled. I do understand and have understood for a long time that
> computers shut down to protect the CPU from overheating, but I just don't
> see any overheating going on unless the temperature suddenly skyrockets
> before HWMonitor can detect it.
>
> I'm still waiting for the electricity to go out here to see what kind of
> load there is on my battery backup (APC 1500XS). It was able to keep my
> tower and 22" CRT up and running for about 20 minutes when the electricity
> went out before. We just haven't had a power failure in the last week.
>
> I'm going to start downloading the WindowsXP SP-3 updates in about three
> hours.
>
> Damaeus

OK, now we can move onto the next topic.

Your power supply.

1) A power supply can shut off if an internal fault is detected.
Move the supply to another computer, and see if the problem
follows the power supply.

2) The +ACs-5VSB rail has a relatively low current rating. The motherboard
uses perhaps +ACs-5VSB +AEA- 1 amps for things like Wake On LAN or other
things needing standby current. The USB ports on modern motherboards,
are also permanently wired to +ACs-5VSB. (A one time, jumper blocks gave
you a choice of power source, but now all the ports are hard-wired
to +ACs-5VSB. If you have 2.5" USB hard drives connected to the computer,
the current demands from those can add up.)

If the +ACs-5VSB rail is overloaded, the regulator might disconnect
the load. Loss of +ACs-5VSB can cause PS-ON+ACM- to deassert, and rather than
just one electrical output being affected, the power supply now
shuts off. The motherboard design is such, that the slightest
glitch in +ACs-5VSB, causes the computer to shut off, and requires
pressing the button again.

So +ACs-5VSB is a weak source of power, that when overloaded,
causes the supply to go off. And part of the path for that,
goes through the motherboard logic for PS-ON+ACM-.

I would take a look at your +ACs-5VSB loading.

Depending on the age of the power supply, and the remaining warranty,
you can also visually inspect the inside of the power supply. There
are four screws that hold the top on. One screw will be covered with
a "warranty void" sticker, preventing the screw from being removed.
If there is no warranty time remaining, then removing all the screws and
taking off the top plate, won't matter with respect to warranty.

Disconnect the power cord from the wall. Do +ACo-not+ACo- touch anything
inside. You're only supposed to look inside.

What you're looking for in there, is leaking capacitors, which can
cause the supply to be weak or shut off spontaneously. In this photo,
you can see rust colored deposits on four caps, and a fifth cap is
bulging on top. Sometimes, a faint "sizzling" sound comes
from the rusty caps, just at turn-on of the power supply.
When my Antec failed like this, there was a tiny puff of
smoke (special effects :-) ) to announce imminent failure.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/PSU+AF8-Caps.jpg

If your supply is in that shape, replace it.

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 12th 12, 06:24 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:47:27
-0600 the following:

> I'm still waiting for the electricity to go out here to see what kind of
> load there is on my battery backup (APC 1500XS). It was able to keep my
> tower and 22" CRT up and running for about 20 minutes when the electricity
> went out before. We just haven't had a power failure in the last week.

Ah! A storm just knocked the power out for about three seconds. I see
that the load on my battery backup is less than it was running the 15"
LCD. The power went out and the battery meter showed that I still had 33
minutes of uptime left. With the 15" LCD, it was only showing about 20-22
minutes of remaining uptime.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 12th 12, 06:38 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 00:19:16 -0500 the following:

> OK, now we can move onto the next topic.
>
> Your power supply.
[...]
> Depending on the age of the power supply, and the remaining warranty,
> you can also visually inspect the inside of the power supply. There
> are four screws that hold the top on. One screw will be covered with
> a "warranty void" sticker, preventing the screw from being removed.
> If there is no warranty time remaining, then removing all the screws and
> taking off the top plate, won't matter with respect to warranty.

Well, the power supply will still be well within its warranty. I just
bought it in July of 2012 to replace one that did go bad. I got an
850-watt Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB. I wanted a good one.

Now here's a question. The lead from the power supply has two plugs on it
for those who have two video cards. I only have one video card (while I
lust for two). I have the FIRST connector connected to the card, while
the one on the end is not connected to anything. Does this sound right?

Damaeus

Paul
November 12th 12, 05:50 PM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
> posted on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 00:19:16 -0500 the following:
>
>> OK, now we can move onto the next topic.
>>
>> Your power supply.
> [...]
>> Depending on the age of the power supply, and the remaining warranty,
>> you can also visually inspect the inside of the power supply. There
>> are four screws that hold the top on. One screw will be covered with
>> a "warranty void" sticker, preventing the screw from being removed.
>> If there is no warranty time remaining, then removing all the screws and
>> taking off the top plate, won't matter with respect to warranty.
>
> Well, the power supply will still be well within its warranty. I just
> bought it in July of 2012 to replace one that did go bad. I got an
> 850-watt Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB. I wanted a good one.
>
> Now here's a question. The lead from the power supply has two plugs on it
> for those who have two video cards. I only have one video card (while I
> lust for two). I have the FIRST connector connected to the card, while
> the one on the end is not connected to anything. Does this sound right?
>
> Damaeus

I can't tell from the cables, exactly how that unit works. I get
the impression the PCI Express cables are 1:1. I don't see
a modular cable connector on one end and two PCI Express
on the other end of the same cable.

http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model_gallery.aspx?id=C_00001830

With some of the cabling, you have to be careful not to mix up
ATX12V 2x4 connector, with a PCI Express. I haven't compared the
shapes of the plastic shells on the connectors, to see if the
keying is different. Molex shrouds have weird shapes, to encourage
only the correct cables can mate.

In any case, if the power cables were wired in parallel

Modular --------+---------+
End | |
PCI-E PCI-E
#1 #2

it should not matter which one or both are connected. As long
as pin amperages have not been violated, wire is proper gauge,
the cable can take anything.

I've seen some adapter cables, that go from a couple 1x4 connectors,
to a PCI-E 2x3, that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Sometimes,
you can tell just from the picture, that there isn't due attention
to details.

PCI Express come in 2x3 and 2x4, on the video card end. On the
power supply end, they make 2x4 connectors, where a 2x1 section
detaches, to make a 2x3 connector. That would be one way to verify
you're working with a PCI Express cable.

The ATX12V comes in a couple formats. Some supplies have separate
2x2 and 2x4 connectors. Some, use a 2x4 that a 2x2 section detaches
to make a 2x2 to fit to the motherboard, and a left-over 2x2
you don't use for anything.

Sample pictures are available here, if you need things to point at
in a posting.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

For example, this is a PCI-Express 2x4 with detachable 2x1.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/pcie6plus2index.jpg

Paul

Paul
November 12th 12, 06:48 PM
Paul wrote:

>
> PCI Express come in 2x3 and 2x4, on the video card end. On the
> video card end, they make 2x4 connectors, where a 2x1 section
> detaches, to make a 2x3 connector. That would be one way to verify
> you're working with a PCI Express cable.
>
Correction:

s/power supply end/video card end/

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 13th 12, 05:13 PM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:50:00 -0500 the following:

> Sample pictures are available here, if you need things to point at
> in a posting.
>
> http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html
>
> For example, this is a PCI-Express 2x4 with detachable 2x1.
>
> http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/pcie6plus2index.jpg

Mine looks like this, and it even has a factory label on it that says
PCI-E: The one labeled "PCI-E" is the one plugged into the video card.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/pcie6plus2index.jpg

My video card only has a 2x3 connection so the 2x1 is left hanging off to
the side.

Acer support has been no help at all. It's like they don't even read the
complete message. I told them in the first message I sent all the things
I had already done. One of those was updating to the latest driver from
nVidia. After first suggesting I send the monitor in to be repaired (a
suggestion I thought was too hasty since the monitor, itself, works
flawlessly), they then suggested upgrading to the latest driver for the
video card, and they suggested trying a different monitor to see if the
problem persists. I replied to tell them I already upgraded the graphics
driver before contacting them, and that I had been using a different
monitor right before connecting this one. Their reply to that was to
upgrade to the latest VGA driver. They are hopeless. I cannot wait to
fill out their survey. I remember seeing one somewhere on their website.
I hope they include some essay questions.

Now I've downloaded CPU Burn-in to "torture" the CPU. Apparently my CPU
is a masochist, or I didn't run the test long enough. Instructions about
how long of a test I should run I have not been able to find yet. I tried
for 30 minutes. The computer did not turn itself off in that time and
HWMonitor shows that the temperature for Core #0 peaked at 42+ALo-C and Core
#1 peaked at 47+ALo-C.

Prime95 users have been running tests for 24 hours.

What do you suggest for CPU Burn-in? Or maybe I should just run Prime95
for 24 hours and see what happens? I have to admit that I was expecting
something like a stress test that raises the temperature more quickly, but
I suppose I need to be patient.

And I think I mentioned in previous posts that I was looking directly at
HWMonitor and the temperature was fine when the PC switched off.

Also, after installing all the Windows updates (it took me two nights to
do it between 1am and 6am) the PC still turned off, and this time, it did
it when Farmville 2 was not in full-screen mode. It was just running
within a full-screen browser, but not when the only thing you could see
through the whole screen was the game. Before, that was the only time the
computer ever switched off in that particular game.

Damaeus

Paul
November 13th 12, 08:32 PM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul <nospam+AEA-needed.com>
> posted on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:50:00 -0500 the following:
>
>> Sample pictures are available here, if you need things to point at
>> in a posting.
>>
>> http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html
>>
>> For example, this is a PCI-Express 2x4 with detachable 2x1.
>>
>> http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/pcie6plus2index.jpg
>
> Mine looks like this, and it even has a factory label on it that says
> PCI-E: The one labeled "PCI-E" is the one plugged into the video card.
>
> http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/pcie6plus2index.jpg
>
> My video card only has a 2x3 connection so the 2x1 is left hanging off to
> the side.
>
> Acer support has been no help at all. It's like they don't even read the
> complete message. I told them in the first message I sent all the things
> I had already done. One of those was updating to the latest driver from
> nVidia. After first suggesting I send the monitor in to be repaired (a
> suggestion I thought was too hasty since the monitor, itself, works
> flawlessly), they then suggested upgrading to the latest driver for the
> video card, and they suggested trying a different monitor to see if the
> problem persists. I replied to tell them I already upgraded the graphics
> driver before contacting them, and that I had been using a different
> monitor right before connecting this one. Their reply to that was to
> upgrade to the latest VGA driver. They are hopeless. I cannot wait to
> fill out their survey. I remember seeing one somewhere on their website.
> I hope they include some essay questions.
>
> Now I've downloaded CPU Burn-in to "torture" the CPU. Apparently my CPU
> is a masochist, or I didn't run the test long enough. Instructions about
> how long of a test I should run I have not been able to find yet. I tried
> for 30 minutes. The computer did not turn itself off in that time and
> HWMonitor shows that the temperature for Core +ACM-0 peaked at 42+ALo-C and Core
> +ACM-1 peaked at 47+ALo-C.
>
> Prime95 users have been running tests for 24 hours.
>
> What do you suggest for CPU Burn-in? Or maybe I should just run Prime95
> for 24 hours and see what happens? I have to admit that I was expecting
> something like a stress test that raises the temperature more quickly, but
> I suppose I need to be patient.
>
> And I think I mentioned in previous posts that I was looking directly at
> HWMonitor and the temperature was fine when the PC switched off.
>
> Also, after installing all the Windows updates (it took me two nights to
> do it between 1am and 6am) the PC still turned off, and this time, it did
> it when Farmville 2 was not in full-screen mode. It was just running
> within a full-screen browser, but not when the only thing you could see
> through the whole screen was the game. Before, that was the only time the
> computer ever switched off in that particular game.
>
> Damaeus

You would run the CPU load test, for about as long as it would normally
have taken for the computer to shut itself off. The test would have
tested two things, CPU cooling properties, and to some extent,
power supply ability to deliver +ACs-12V to the processor.

The 7950 GTOC doesn't draw enough power to shut off your power
supply. It shouldn't even be close. The card draws 61.1W in this test.
Depending on your processor, it might draw a bit more than that during
Prime95.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/geforce7950gt+AF8-3.html+ACM-sect0

The only mechanisms I know of are:

1) THERMTRIP on CPU overheat (turns off PS+AF8-ON+ACM- signal)
2) overloading of +ACs-5VSB, such as too many USB devices, charging
several iPads, leaving multiple 2.5" USB hard drives connected, or
so on. With +ACs-5VSB overloaded, the PS+AF8-ON+ACM- signal gets deasserted and
the supply goes off.
3) VCore overcurrent detection (CPU onboard regulator) can turn off
VCore to the processor. But that doesn't cause the computer fans to
stop. And recovery requires toggling the power switch on the back of
the PC. Typically, pressing reset doesn't help.
4) Power supply internal problem, causes supply to go off.
With proper design, again, the rear switch should need to be
toggled for it to recover. If pressing the power button on the
front, gets it to start again, it probably wasn't a power supply
internal fault detector.

If the power supply just has a problem with the PS+AF8-ON+ACM- signal
(unreliably reading the level of the signal), then just about
anything could happen. But then, you might not get a nice clean
shutoff.

So far, I'm not seeing any symptoms I can match to known design
features.

I'm unaware of any software path, that shuts off the computer
on a video card overheat.

If your CPU crashes and runs code at random from memory,
I suppose it could run into a call to the BIOS to shut off
the computer. But what are the odds of that happening. And
your clean Prime95 results, don't suggest any kind of
instability.

Would a virus or malware trigger a shutoff ? It could, if
an essential software subsystem is killed (security subsystem).
But then, there should be a dialog box on the screen, with
a threat to "turn off in 60 seconds". So again, no symptom
match there. Your machine just switches off.

You might want to go back and review the symptoms before
you replaced the power supply. Is there anything of
interest symptom-wise, there ?

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 14th 12, 01:56 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:32:49 -0500 the following:

> You would run the CPU load test, for about as long as it would normally
> have taken for the computer to shut itself off. The test would have
> tested two things, CPU cooling properties, and to some extent,
> power supply ability to deliver +-12V to the processor.

Okay, I ran a Prime95 test for 2 hours and 34 minutes while I took a nap.
It reported no errors and my PC was still running the test when I woke up.
The highest temperatures reported by HDMonitor were: 48+ALo-C and 49+ALo-C for
each core:

> [Nov 13 14:54] Worker starting
> [Nov 13 14:54] Setting affinity to run worker on logical CPU #1
> [Nov 13 14:54] Beginning a continuous self-test to check your computer.
> [Nov 13 14:54] Please read stress.txt. Choose Test/Stop to end this test.
> [Nov 13 14:54] Test 1, 9000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M8716289 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 448K, Pass1=448, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 14:58] Test 2, 9000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M8716287 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 448K, Pass1=448, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:01] Test 3, 9000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M8516289 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 448K, Pass1=448, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:04] Test 4, 9000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M8316287 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 448K, Pass1=448, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:07] Test 5, 9000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M8257537 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 448K, Pass1=448, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:11] Self-test 448K passed!
> [Nov 13 15:11] Test 1, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M172031 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 8K, Pass1=32, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:15] Test 2, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M163839 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 8K, Pass1=32, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:18] Test 3, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M159745 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 8K, Pass1=32, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:22] Test 4, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M157695 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 8K, Pass1=32, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:25] Test 5, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M155649 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 8K, Pass1=32, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:29] Self-test 8K passed!
> [Nov 13 15:29] Test 1, 7800 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M9961473 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 512K, Pass1=512, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:32] Test 2, 7800 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M9961471 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 512K, Pass1=512, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:35] Test 3, 7800 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M9837183 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 512K, Pass1=512, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:38] Test 4, 7800 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M9737185 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 512K, Pass1=512, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:41] Test 5, 7800 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M9537183 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 512K, Pass1=512, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:45] Self-test 512K passed!
> [Nov 13 15:45] Test 1, 460000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M250519 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 12K, Pass1=48, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:48] Test 2, 460000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M245759 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 12K, Pass1=48, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:52] Test 3, 460000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M245281 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 12K, Pass1=48, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:55] Test 4, 460000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M243713 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 12K, Pass1=48, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:58] Test 5, 460000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M235519 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 12K, Pass1=48, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:02] Self-test 12K passed!
> [Nov 13 16:02] Test 1, 6500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M12451841 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 640K, Pass1=320, Pass2=2K.
> [Nov 13 16:06] Test 2, 6500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M12451839 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 640K, Pass1=640, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 16:09] Test 3, 6500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M12196481 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 640K, Pass1=320, Pass2=2K.
> [Nov 13 16:13] Test 4, 6500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M11796481 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 640K, Pass1=640, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 16:16] Test 5, 6500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M11796479 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 640K, Pass1=320, Pass2=2K.
> [Nov 13 16:20] Self-test 640K passed!
> [Nov 13 16:20] Test 1, 340000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M339487 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 16K, Pass1=64, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:23] Test 2, 340000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M335393 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 16K, Pass1=64, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:26] Test 3, 340000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M331681 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 16K, Pass1=64, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:29] Test 4, 340000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M329727 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 16K, Pass1=64, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:32] Test 5, 340000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M327681 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 16K, Pass1=64, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:36] Self-test 16K passed!
> [Nov 13 16:36] Test 1, 5300 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M14942209 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 768K, Pass1=256, Pass2=3K.
> [Nov 13 16:39] Test 2, 5300 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M14942207 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 768K, Pass1=256, Pass2=3K.
> [Nov 13 16:42] Test 3, 5300 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M14155777 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 768K, Pass1=256, Pass2=3K.
> [Nov 13 16:46] Test 4, 5300 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M14155775 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 768K, Pass1=256, Pass2=3K.
> [Nov 13 16:49] Test 5, 5300 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M13969343 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 768K, Pass1=256, Pass2=3K.
> [Nov 13 16:53] Self-test 768K passed!
> [Nov 13 16:53] Test 1, 210000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M501041 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 24K, Pass1=96, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:56] Test 2, 210000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M496943 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 24K, Pass1=96, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:59] Test 3, 210000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M487423 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 24K, Pass1=96, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 17:03] Test 4, 210000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M471041 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 24K, Pass1=96, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 17:06] Test 5, 210000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M466943 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 24K, Pass1=96, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 17:09] Self-test 24K passed!
> [Nov 13 17:09] Test 1, 4500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M16815071 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 864K, Pass1=384, Pass2=2304.
> [Nov 13 17:13] Test 2, 4500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M16515073 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 864K, Pass1=384, Pass2=2304.
> [Nov 13 17:16] Test 3, 4500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M16515071 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 864K, Pass1=384, Pass2=2304.
> [Nov 13 17:20] Test 4, 4500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M16297569 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 864K, Pass1=384, Pass2=2304.
> [Nov 13 17:23] Test 5, 4500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M15997567 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 864K, Pass1=384, Pass2=2304.
> [Nov 13 17:26] Self-test 864K passed!
> [Nov 13 17:26] Test 1, 160000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M662593 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 32K, Pass1=128, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 17:28] Torture Test completed 45 tests in 2 hours, 34 minutes - 0 errors, 0 warnings.
> [Nov 13 17:28] Worker stopped.



> [Nov 13 14:54] Worker starting
> [Nov 13 14:54] Setting affinity to run worker on logical CPU #2
> [Nov 13 14:54] Beginning a continuous self-test to check your computer.
> [Nov 13 14:54] Please read stress.txt. Choose Test/Stop to end this test.
> [Nov 13 14:54] Test 1, 9000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M8716289 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 448K, Pass1=448, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 14:57] Test 2, 9000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M8716287 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 448K, Pass1=448, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:00] Test 3, 9000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M8516289 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 448K, Pass1=448, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:04] Test 4, 9000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M8316287 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 448K, Pass1=448, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:07] Test 5, 9000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M8257537 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 448K, Pass1=448, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:11] Self-test 448K passed!
> [Nov 13 15:11] Test 1, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M172031 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 8K, Pass1=32, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:14] Test 2, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M163839 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 8K, Pass1=32, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:17] Test 3, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M159745 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 8K, Pass1=32, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:21] Test 4, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M157695 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 8K, Pass1=32, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:24] Test 5, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M155649 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 8K, Pass1=32, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:28] Self-test 8K passed!
> [Nov 13 15:28] Test 1, 7800 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M9961473 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 512K, Pass1=512, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:31] Test 2, 7800 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M9961471 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 512K, Pass1=512, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:34] Test 3, 7800 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M9837183 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 512K, Pass1=512, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:38] Test 4, 7800 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M9737185 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 512K, Pass1=512, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:40] Test 5, 7800 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M9537183 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 512K, Pass1=512, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 15:44] Self-test 512K passed!
> [Nov 13 15:44] Test 1, 460000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M250519 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 12K, Pass1=48, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:47] Test 2, 460000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M245759 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 12K, Pass1=48, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:50] Test 3, 460000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M245281 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 12K, Pass1=48, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:54] Test 4, 460000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M243713 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 12K, Pass1=48, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 15:57] Test 5, 460000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M235519 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 12K, Pass1=48, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:01] Self-test 12K passed!
> [Nov 13 16:01] Test 1, 6500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M12451841 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 640K, Pass1=320, Pass2=2K.
> [Nov 13 16:04] Test 2, 6500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M12451839 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 640K, Pass1=640, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 16:07] Test 3, 6500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M12196481 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 640K, Pass1=320, Pass2=2K.
> [Nov 13 16:11] Test 4, 6500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M11796481 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 640K, Pass1=640, Pass2=1K.
> [Nov 13 16:14] Test 5, 6500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M11796479 using AMD K8 type-0 FFT length 640K, Pass1=320, Pass2=2K.
> [Nov 13 16:18] Self-test 640K passed!
> [Nov 13 16:18] Test 1, 340000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M339487 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 16K, Pass1=64, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:21] Test 2, 340000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M335393 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 16K, Pass1=64, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:24] Test 3, 340000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M331681 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 16K, Pass1=64, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:28] Test 4, 340000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M329727 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 16K, Pass1=64, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:30] Test 5, 340000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M327681 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 16K, Pass1=64, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:34] Self-test 16K passed!
> [Nov 13 16:34] Test 1, 5300 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M14942209 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 768K, Pass1=256, Pass2=3K.
> [Nov 13 16:37] Test 2, 5300 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M14942207 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 768K, Pass1=256, Pass2=3K.
> [Nov 13 16:40] Test 3, 5300 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M14155777 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 768K, Pass1=256, Pass2=3K.
> [Nov 13 16:44] Test 4, 5300 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M14155775 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 768K, Pass1=256, Pass2=3K.
> [Nov 13 16:47] Test 5, 5300 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M13969343 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 768K, Pass1=256, Pass2=3K.
> [Nov 13 16:51] Self-test 768K passed!
> [Nov 13 16:51] Test 1, 210000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M501041 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 24K, Pass1=96, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:54] Test 2, 210000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M496943 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 24K, Pass1=96, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 16:57] Test 3, 210000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M487423 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 24K, Pass1=96, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 17:00] Test 4, 210000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M471041 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 24K, Pass1=96, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 17:03] Test 5, 210000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M466943 using AMD K8 type-1 FFT length 24K, Pass1=96, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 17:06] Self-test 24K passed!
> [Nov 13 17:06] Test 1, 4500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M16815071 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 864K, Pass1=384, Pass2=2304.
> [Nov 13 17:10] Test 2, 4500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M16515073 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 864K, Pass1=384, Pass2=2304.
> [Nov 13 17:13] Test 3, 4500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M16515071 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 864K, Pass1=384, Pass2=2304.
> [Nov 13 17:16] Test 4, 4500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M16297569 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 864K, Pass1=384, Pass2=2304.
> [Nov 13 17:20] Test 5, 4500 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M15997567 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 864K, Pass1=384, Pass2=2304.
> [Nov 13 17:23] Self-test 864K passed!
> [Nov 13 17:23] Test 1, 160000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M662593 using AMD K8 type-2 FFT length 32K, Pass1=128, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 17:27] Test 2, 160000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M659457 using AMD K8 type-3 FFT length 32K, Pass1=128, Pass2=256.
> [Nov 13 17:28] Torture Test completed 46 tests in 2 hours, 34 minutes - 0 errors, 0 warnings.
> [Nov 13 17:28] Worker stopped.


With Final Fantasy, once I played for about 30 minutes with no problems.
The next time, as soon as I started the game, the PC turned off. With
Farmville 2, it happened within 10 minutes or instantly when going
full-screen, but earlier today, it happened even without going
full-screen, and after about five minutes of playing with Facebook junk
surrounding the play area. Age of Empires shut me down within about a
minute or two, including the time it takes to get past the menus to get a
skirmish started.

I'm thinking it might be a 3D issue. I've read that video cards have a 2D
mode and a 3D mode. So far, I've only gotten a shut-down when playing 3D
games. Farmville 2 is a Flash game, but it's also full 3D and runs pretty
smoothly except for short bursts of sluggishness, maybe lasting slightly
less than one second at a time, but happening about every five or six
seconds. I haven't tried any other 3D games so far aside from the three I
mentioned above.

Chefville, for example, is a 2D Flash game, and Farmville 2 is a 3D Flash
game. In the past, I've checked CPU usage for Chefville and it runs about
50% on average. Farmville 2 only runs the CPU at about 30%, but I have so
far not gotten a shut-down in Chefville. Chefville does not run as
smoothly as Farmville 2. I have also played CityVille 2 a few times in
full-screen without a problem, but I have not tried to play it again since
encountering this power-off issue in other games.

In Chrome, I'm currently running a 2.5D game called Total Domination:
Nuclear Strategy, and it's running my CPU fluctuating between 30% and 59%,
mostly staying above 50% and my CPU temperature is only 39+ALo-C and 43+ALo- on
the two cores. No shut-downs, no stability problems, no errors, no
crashes. Occasionally Flash does crash on its own, but typically only
after I've been running a game for a very long time, like more than three
hours or so. I have not considered CPU problems as the culprit, but some
kind of flaw in the programming of the game itself. Those games get a lot
of updates, so bugs are more likely to creep in.

Also, I think I mentioned in an earlier post that something about this
system has been "off" since the day I built it. Trouble with animation
pages displaying out of order was the first problem I had, and it was
within the first day or two of using this build back in November of 2006.
But since it only happened in games I could live without, I didn't try
having the card put through any kind of warranty process. I guess I
should have. I highly doubt nVidia would help me at this point, but I'm
desperate enough to call them and just tell them about the history of this
card to see if I could at least get a swap for some refurbished 7950GT in
exchange for my 7950GTOC and maybe $50 or something. This will leave me
without a computer until I can get the swap, but I've been religious about
my choice to use nVidia cards. I've had GeForce 2 Ultra, GeForce 5600XT,
GeForce 6800GT, and now this 7950GTOC. This is the first one that I've
had problems with. It's definitely a lemon. But when I get a new
graphics card, I always try to get something near the top end of the
current generation so I won't be unhappy with it or find something it just
won't do.

I'm going to try 1024 x 768 mode in a problem-game because I never had a
crash in that resolution with the 15" LCD. However, I was running Final
Fantasy XI in 1280 x 1024 on a 22" CRT with no problems, and occasionally
1600 x 1200 on the same CRT. I read on the web where others have had a
problem with their computer powering off after changing the video card. If
the video card has some kind of problem, maybe it's trying to draw more
power than it should. I'll try that next, watching GPU voltages instead
of temperature, but I really would rather not push it with this thing. I
don't like for the computer to just go off all by itself like that unless
it's caused by ThermTrip.

[...]
> The only mechanisms I know of are:
>
> 1) THERMTRIP on CPU overheat (turns off PS_ON# signal)
> 2) overloading of +-5VSB, such as too many USB devices, charging
> several iPads, leaving multiple 2.5" USB hard drives connected, or
> so on. With +-5VSB overloaded, the PS_ON# signal gets deasserted and
> the supply goes off.

The only things drawing power through USB are the keyboard and mouse. The
image scanner and printer both have their own power cords. I do have
other USB cables plugged in for my camera, cell phone and an iRiver MP3
player, but I don't keep those devices connected all the time. I almost
never use the iRiver player or the digital camera, but the cell phone is
connected sometimes to get a charge or offload any pictures I might have
taken.

> 3) VCore overcurrent detection (CPU onboard regulator) can turn off
> VCore to the processor. But that doesn't cause the computer fans to
> stop. And recovery requires toggling the power switch on the back of
> the PC. Typically, pressing reset doesn't help.

Yes, I don't have to cycle the power switch on the power supply. I just
push the tower's power button, though I did cycle the PSU switch once when
pressing the button on the tower wouldn't turn it back on, but then I
noticed that I might not have been pushing the button hard enough. I just
"kind of" pressed it once and it didn't come on, but pressing it harder a
second time did the trick. I don't have to actually put a lot of effort
in it, but it takes slightly more than a gentle tap. It's kind of an old
tower, but it's big and charcoal grey and I like that.

[...]
> So far, I'm not seeing any symptoms I can match to known design
> features.
>
> I'm unaware of any software path, that shuts off the computer
> on a video card overheat.
>
> If your CPU crashes and runs code at random from memory,
> I suppose it could run into a call to the BIOS to shut off
> the computer. But what are the odds of that happening. And
> your clean Prime95 results, don't suggest any kind of
> instability.
>
> Would a virus or malware trigger a shutoff ? It could, if
> an essential software subsystem is killed (security subsystem).
> But then, there should be a dialog box on the screen, with
> a threat to "turn off in 60 seconds". So again, no symptom
> match there. Your machine just switches off.

Yes, and a virus scan of the system files and program files reveal no
viruses. I never run executable attachments and nobody I know ever sends
me any. I use Forte Agent 6.0 to read email and usenet messages, and you
might know about their inherent protection from viruses and other forms of
malware. You actually have to make a choice to run something to hose your
own system. Nothing happens automatically and Agent doesn't even process
ActiveX inclusions.

> You might want to go back and review the symptoms before
> you replaced the power supply. Is there anything of
> interest symptom-wise, there ?

Well, I never had any random shut-downs with my old power supply, but like
you mentioned above, if the electricity ever went off, I had to cycle the
switch on the power supply to get the computer to come back on. If that's
a symptom of a power supply going out, then it was having that problem for
quite a while before I replaced it. Sometimes even cycling the switch on
the back wouldn't get me back up and running. I'm glad to be rid of it.

In its last few days of operation, when viewing dark backgrounds with
light text, for example, the display would become darker and darker and
I'd get gently flickering fluctuations in brightness. Switching to
something with a light background would display everything normally. That
had me thinking at first that the video card was going out. I leave my PC
and monitor running when I go to bed or leave the house or anything. It
just stays on 24/7, no matter what. So one morning I woke up, the CRT was
dark, the computer was going beep...beep...beep...beep...and I could not
turn it on anymore. Definite diagnosis at that point was the power
supply. I replaced it and got the PC back on, but the CRT no longer
worked. I figured the fluctuation in the video delivery from the graphics
card ruined the CRT monitor. In a way, I'm glad it did because it led me
to get this beautiful 27"er. I just love it, except for the fact that it
has no tilt adjustment on the base. I have to prop a book under the back
of the base since my chair is kind of low.

Thanks a whole bunch for all the time you're spending with me on this. I'm
glad to have the experience because I do the same with others in other
newsgroups or forums when I know how to help a person fix a problem. :)

Damaeus

Paul
November 14th 12, 03:37 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul <nospam+AEA-needed.com>
> posted on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:32:49 -0500 the following:
>
>> You would run the CPU load test, for about as long as it would normally
>> have taken for the computer to shut itself off. The test would have
>> tested two things, CPU cooling properties, and to some extent,
>> power supply ability to deliver +ACs-12V to the processor.
>
> Okay, I ran a Prime95 test for 2 hours and 34 minutes while I took a nap.
> It reported no errors and my PC was still running the test when I woke up.
> The highest temperatures reported by HDMonitor were: 48+ALo-C and 49+ALo-C for
> each core:
>
>> [Nov 13 14:54] Worker starting
<<snipped Prime95 results, which all passed...>>
>> [Nov 13 17:28] Worker stopped.
>
>
> With Final Fantasy, once I played for about 30 minutes with no problems.
> The next time, as soon as I started the game, the PC turned off. With
> Farmville 2, it happened within 10 minutes or instantly when going
> full-screen, but earlier today, it happened even without going
> full-screen, and after about five minutes of playing with Facebook junk
> surrounding the play area. Age of Empires shut me down within about a
> minute or two, including the time it takes to get past the menus to get a
> skirmish started.
>
> I'm thinking it might be a 3D issue. I've read that video cards have a 2D
> mode and a 3D mode. So far, I've only gotten a shut-down when playing 3D
> games. Farmville 2 is a Flash game, but it's also full 3D and runs pretty
> smoothly except for short bursts of sluggishness, maybe lasting slightly
> less than one second at a time, but happening about every five or six
> seconds. I haven't tried any other 3D games so far aside from the three I
> mentioned above.
>
> Chefville, for example, is a 2D Flash game, and Farmville 2 is a 3D Flash
> game. In the past, I've checked CPU usage for Chefville and it runs about
> 50+ACU- on average. Farmville 2 only runs the CPU at about 30+ACU-, but I have so
> far not gotten a shut-down in Chefville. Chefville does not run as
> smoothly as Farmville 2. I have also played CityVille 2 a few times in
> full-screen without a problem, but I have not tried to play it again since
> encountering this power-off issue in other games.
>
> In Chrome, I'm currently running a 2.5D game called Total Domination:
> Nuclear Strategy, and it's running my CPU fluctuating between 30+ACU- and 59+ACU-,
> mostly staying above 50+ACU- and my CPU temperature is only 39+ALo-C and 43+ALo- on
> the two cores. No shut-downs, no stability problems, no errors, no
> crashes. Occasionally Flash does crash on its own, but typically only
> after I've been running a game for a very long time, like more than three
> hours or so. I have not considered CPU problems as the culprit, but some
> kind of flaw in the programming of the game itself. Those games get a lot
> of updates, so bugs are more likely to creep in.
>
> Also, I think I mentioned in an earlier post that something about this
> system has been "off" since the day I built it. Trouble with animation
> pages displaying out of order was the first problem I had, and it was
> within the first day or two of using this build back in November of 2006.
> But since it only happened in games I could live without, I didn't try
> having the card put through any kind of warranty process. I guess I
> should have. I highly doubt nVidia would help me at this point, but I'm
> desperate enough to call them and just tell them about the history of this
> card to see if I could at least get a swap for some refurbished 7950GT in
> exchange for my 7950GTOC and maybe +ACQ-50 or something. This will leave me
> without a computer until I can get the swap, but I've been religious about
> my choice to use nVidia cards. I've had GeForce 2 Ultra, GeForce 5600XT,
> GeForce 6800GT, and now this 7950GTOC. This is the first one that I've
> had problems with. It's definitely a lemon. But when I get a new
> graphics card, I always try to get something near the top end of the
> current generation so I won't be unhappy with it or find something it just
> won't do.
>
> I'm going to try 1024 x 768 mode in a problem-game because I never had a
> crash in that resolution with the 15" LCD. However, I was running Final
> Fantasy XI in 1280 x 1024 on a 22" CRT with no problems, and occasionally
> 1600 x 1200 on the same CRT. I read on the web where others have had a
> problem with their computer powering off after changing the video card. If
> the video card has some kind of problem, maybe it's trying to draw more
> power than it should. I'll try that next, watching GPU voltages instead
> of temperature, but I really would rather not push it with this thing. I
> don't like for the computer to just go off all by itself like that unless
> it's caused by ThermTrip.
>
> [...]
>> The only mechanisms I know of are:
>>
>> 1) THERMTRIP on CPU overheat (turns off PS+AF8-ON+ACM- signal)
>> 2) overloading of +ACs-5VSB, such as too many USB devices, charging
>> several iPads, leaving multiple 2.5" USB hard drives connected, or
>> so on. With +ACs-5VSB overloaded, the PS+AF8-ON+ACM- signal gets deasserted and
>> the supply goes off.
>
> The only things drawing power through USB are the keyboard and mouse. The
> image scanner and printer both have their own power cords. I do have
> other USB cables plugged in for my camera, cell phone and an iRiver MP3
> player, but I don't keep those devices connected all the time. I almost
> never use the iRiver player or the digital camera, but the cell phone is
> connected sometimes to get a charge or offload any pictures I might have
> taken.
>
>> 3) VCore overcurrent detection (CPU onboard regulator) can turn off
>> VCore to the processor. But that doesn't cause the computer fans to
>> stop. And recovery requires toggling the power switch on the back of
>> the PC. Typically, pressing reset doesn't help.
>
> Yes, I don't have to cycle the power switch on the power supply. I just
> push the tower's power button, though I did cycle the PSU switch once when
> pressing the button on the tower wouldn't turn it back on, but then I
> noticed that I might not have been pushing the button hard enough. I just
> "kind of" pressed it once and it didn't come on, but pressing it harder a
> second time did the trick. I don't have to actually put a lot of effort
> in it, but it takes slightly more than a gentle tap. It's kind of an old
> tower, but it's big and charcoal grey and I like that.
>
> [...]
>> So far, I'm not seeing any symptoms I can match to known design
>> features.
>>
>> I'm unaware of any software path, that shuts off the computer
>> on a video card overheat.
>>
>> If your CPU crashes and runs code at random from memory,
>> I suppose it could run into a call to the BIOS to shut off
>> the computer. But what are the odds of that happening. And
>> your clean Prime95 results, don't suggest any kind of
>> instability.
>>
>> Would a virus or malware trigger a shutoff ? It could, if
>> an essential software subsystem is killed (security subsystem).
>> But then, there should be a dialog box on the screen, with
>> a threat to "turn off in 60 seconds". So again, no symptom
>> match there. Your machine just switches off.
>
> Yes, and a virus scan of the system files and program files reveal no
> viruses. I never run executable attachments and nobody I know ever sends
> me any. I use Forte Agent 6.0 to read email and usenet messages, and you
> might know about their inherent protection from viruses and other forms of
> malware. You actually have to make a choice to run something to hose your
> own system. Nothing happens automatically and Agent doesn't even process
> ActiveX inclusions.
>
>> You might want to go back and review the symptoms before
>> you replaced the power supply. Is there anything of
>> interest symptom-wise, there ?
>
> Well, I never had any random shut-downs with my old power supply, but like
> you mentioned above, if the electricity ever went off, I had to cycle the
> switch on the power supply to get the computer to come back on. If that's
> a symptom of a power supply going out, then it was having that problem for
> quite a while before I replaced it. Sometimes even cycling the switch on
> the back wouldn't get me back up and running. I'm glad to be rid of it.
>
> In its last few days of operation, when viewing dark backgrounds with
> light text, for example, the display would become darker and darker and
> I'd get gently flickering fluctuations in brightness. Switching to
> something with a light background would display everything normally. That
> had me thinking at first that the video card was going out. I leave my PC
> and monitor running when I go to bed or leave the house or anything. It
> just stays on 24/7, no matter what. So one morning I woke up, the CRT was
> dark, the computer was going beep...beep...beep...beep...and I could not
> turn it on anymore. Definite diagnosis at that point was the power
> supply. I replaced it and got the PC back on, but the CRT no longer
> worked. I figured the fluctuation in the video delivery from the graphics
> card ruined the CRT monitor. In a way, I'm glad it did because it led me
> to get this beautiful 27"er. I just love it, except for the fact that it
> has no tilt adjustment on the base. I have to prop a book under the back
> of the base since my chair is kind of low.
>
> Thanks a whole bunch for all the time you're spending with me on this. I'm
> glad to have the experience because I do the same with others in other
> newsgroups or forums when I know how to help a person fix a problem. :)
>
> Damaeus

I think BFG is out of business.

I bought a 7900GT made by them, and the thing was, it appeared for
sale well after production had stopped. So I knew at the time, that
BFG would be going out of business (because, they were selling
their warranty replacement cards). I don't know how much support
from them you'll get now. Some companies leave a warranty handling
section in operation, for a few years. I don't know what BFG
offers right now.

If your motherboard had built-in video, you could try pulling the
video card, and just use the motherboard graphics for some testing.

One tool I have here, is a clamp-on DC ammeter. I can use that
to monitor current flow on any power supply rails. If something
was overloading, that's how I would detect it. That meter is
better than my other multimeter, because you don't cut any wires
to make a current measurement. The jaws of the meter just clamp
around a wire, to measure current flow. (The meter uses a Hall probe,
and is actually detecting the magnetic field around the wire, and that
is how it knows the current.)

This is my ammeter (only mine is older and all-gray in color).
I can measure heavy currents with this safely. For example, when
I wanted to know how much current the starter motor in my car
draws, this meter could tell me. It measured a peak current
of 150 amps from the battery. The starter needed to be replaced.
It's also useful for the main power cable on the motherboard,
and checking 3.3V, 5V, and 12V amps.

http://imageserver.grainger.com/is/image/Grainger/4FB73+AF8-AS01?+ACQ-productdetail+ACQ-

Maybe there is some means, where a video driver can ask to have
a computer shut down. It's just I've never heard of it. There have
been enough burned up video cards, if there was such a protection,
it isn't working very well :-)

Paul

Buffalo[_2_]
November 14th 12, 04:22 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
> > posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:02:20 -0700 the
> following:
>
>> Damaeus wrote:
>>
>>> First of all, I recently (within the last week) got a new 27" Acer
>>> S271HL monitor that'll run 1920 x 1080. I love that. For the first
>>> couple or three days, all I did was desktop stuff and Facebook games
>>> like Chefville, Farmville 2, Total Domination: Nuclear Strategy, and
>>> Cityville 2. At first everything was fine. But now there's a
>>> problem that has surfaced. My PC will sometimes shut down with no
>>> warning, and here are the three instances (and only three) in which
>>> it has happened so far:
> [...]
>>
>> Try upgrading to SP 3 and also uninstall and reinstall the vid card
>> drivers.
>
> I'll do that tonight after 1am Central so it won't impact the "Fair
> Access Policy" of the satellite internet service we (try) to use.
>
>> Perhaps even use Driver Cleaner to get all the old remnants of the
>> vid drivers out before reinstalling the new ones.
>> Ck cpu temp as Paul suggested.
>
> Yeah, CPU temperatures run 29șC to 40șC. GPU temperature idles at
> 60șC and has been as high as 69șC in Farmville 2. I was going to
> check the GPU temperature in Final Fantasy XI, but when I last tried
> to run that game, the computer turned itself off again.
>
>> Check vid card and cpu fan and cooling fins.
>
> Yes, those had little dust in them, but I blew them out anyway before
> posting. It didn't make a difference in temperature.
>
>> Is the computer actually shutting down, or just a lack of video
>> signal?
>
> The computer completely goes off in one instant-no shutdown process
> even tries to happen. It's just OFF totally.
>
>> PS: Does your monitor require any drivers?
>
> I don't know that they're required, but I do have them installed. It
> was one of the first things I did after hooking up the new monitor. I
> downloaded them from the Acer website, so they're the most recent
> version.
>
> Damaeus
Things you may want to try.
Try jiggling your monitor connector at the PC.
Try tapping your PC OR shaking it some while it is running.
Try disconnecting your UPS
Try , with the power off, disconnecting and reconnecting all your connectors
inside yoru PC (perhaps you will notice some heat damage, arcing, corrosion,
etc).
Remove and reseat all your cards and memory
Try to flex your MB while it is running (do it safely and mildly) to see if
it may have a possible broken trace that intermiittently works.
Check for bulging and/or leaking capacitors.
Try a different monitor
Try a different keyboard ???
Try uninstalling your vid card drivers and remove all traces of the old one
before installing the new ones after a reboot
Try a different vid card.
Try a different PSU.
Clean install of your OS. That would invole some time.
Have a beer, or two or threee or !!!
Buffalo

Paul
November 14th 12, 05:47 AM
Damaeus wrote:
>
>

Just a quick note.

I found another mechanism to shut off a computer.

http://www.bugtrack.almico.com/view.php?id=438

In that example, Speedfan, if given an opportunity to
scan the SMBUS, can shut off the computer. So something
on that particular motherboard design, is "exposed", and
visiting all the addresses on the bus (a bus scan),
triggers something it shouldn't.

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 14th 12, 09:57 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:47:44 -0500 the following:

> Damaeus wrote:
>
> Just a quick note.
>
> I found another mechanism to shut off a computer.
>
> http://www.bugtrack.almico.com/view.php?id=438
>
> In that example, Speedfan, if given an opportunity to
> scan the SMBUS, can shut off the computer. So something
> on that particular motherboard design, is "exposed", and
> visiting all the addresses on the bus (a bus scan),
> triggers something it shouldn't.

Yes, I'm reading that thread. That is all getting a bit too complicated
for me. I can build computers easily with parts that work, but when it
gets to something like this, I start shopping for new parts...assuming I
have the money.

By the way, I tried running in 1024 x 768 mode since that's what the 15"
LCD was running. I had another shut-down about three or four seconds
after I went full-screen in Farmville 2 about ten minutes ago.

If I was going to have a problem like this, I would rather have seen it
manifest with the old monitor first. Having problems in this order just
messes with my sense of cause and effect.

I'm to the point now where I'd just rather spend my time trying to make
enough money to simply buy a new graphics card and see if that does the
trick. I already know something has been messed up with the graphics
since I built this thing, so before I start poking around inside with
various tools, pressing on this, jiggling that, measuring this, and taking
a chance of scratching a board, I might just avoid the programs that are
giving me problems until I get some new hardware.

I might reconnect the 15" LCD if I can tolerate it. Even when running
this big monitor at 1024 x 768, it was agonizing. Everything was huge,
overlapping windows, scrolling left and right and up and down just to see
all of some web pages. It's just so annoying. lol

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 14th 12, 10:06 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:37:27 -0500 the following:

> If your motherboard had built-in video, you could try pulling the
> video card, and just use the motherboard graphics for some testing.

There is one other point I forgot to include in all these messages: when I
was using the 15" LCD, it only had a VGA cable so I had to use a DVI-VGA
adapter. This new monitor has DVI natively so I don't need that adapter.
Maybe the DVI has more demands for the video card than it has ever
experienced before. So the new monitor exposes flaws that were not
exposed using a VGA adapter.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 14th 12, 02:06 PM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 02:57:20
-0600 the following:

> I might reconnect the 15" LCD if I can tolerate it. Even when running
> this big monitor at 1024 x 768, it was agonizing. Everything was huge,
> overlapping windows, scrolling left and right and up and down just to see
> all of some web pages. It's just so annoying. lol

Well, the power-down problem has gotten worse so I reconnected the 15"
LCD. First it started doing it under conditions it hadn't at first. It
shut down twice playing Total Domination, and that is only a pseudo 3-D
game with very little animation. Then I rebooted and the PC powered off
before it was even finished booting yet.

This is the first time I've had the 15" LCD reconnected, so now I guess
we'll find out for sure. I'm about to try all the games that were causing
a shut-down before.

I'll post again later, assuming it doesn't shut down permanently.

Damaeus

Paul
November 14th 12, 07:31 PM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> > posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 02:57:20
> -0600 the following:
>
>> I might reconnect the 15" LCD if I can tolerate it. Even when running
>> this big monitor at 1024 x 768, it was agonizing. Everything was huge,
>> overlapping windows, scrolling left and right and up and down just to see
>> all of some web pages. It's just so annoying. lol
>
> Well, the power-down problem has gotten worse so I reconnected the 15"
> LCD. First it started doing it under conditions it hadn't at first. It
> shut down twice playing Total Domination, and that is only a pseudo 3-D
> game with very little animation. Then I rebooted and the PC powered off
> before it was even finished booting yet.
>
> This is the first time I've had the 15" LCD reconnected, so now I guess
> we'll find out for sure. I'm about to try all the games that were causing
> a shut-down before.
>
> I'll post again later, assuming it doesn't shut down permanently.
>
> Damaeus

Even if there was a problem with Safety Ground connection on the AC
side of your wiring, I don't think these symptoms would result. The
shell of the monitor cable has a ground connection, so the monitor and
computer will operate at a common ground potential.

It could be that the motherboard has a weak PS_ON# signal, making
a poor logic 0. (This is something you check with a multimeter.
0.4V to 0.8V or so would be a reasonable logic signal, in the
active state. It should float up to close to 5.0V when the
computer is soft-off.)

The critical detail, is the correlation of events. If it *only*
shuts down during 3D games, then PS_ON# would not care whether
you were gaming or not. Games don't draw on +5VSB. So there is
nothing there to de-stabilize the system. The video card power
drain goes up. The CPU power drain goes up. But I don't know
of any other mechanism (barring that SMBUS scan type of fault),
that can shut down the computer. I can't see the video driver
doing it.

If we were debugging in the lab, we'd start at PS_ON# and
work backwards. A schematic is generally recommended,
as the logic tree has more than a few terms in it (SB and
SuperI/O signals). I've debugged electronics without
a schematic, but it isn't that much fun.

Paul

Buffalo[_2_]
November 14th 12, 11:22 PM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> > posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012
> 02:57:20 -0600 the following:
>
>> I might reconnect the 15" LCD if I can tolerate it. Even when
>> running this big monitor at 1024 x 768, it was agonizing.
>> Everything was huge, overlapping windows, scrolling left and right
>> and up and down just to see all of some web pages. It's just so
>> annoying. lol
>
> Well, the power-down problem has gotten worse so I reconnected the 15"
> LCD. First it started doing it under conditions it hadn't at first.
> It shut down twice playing Total Domination, and that is only a
> pseudo 3-D game with very little animation. Then I rebooted and the
> PC powered off before it was even finished booting yet.
>
> This is the first time I've had the 15" LCD reconnected, so now I
> guess we'll find out for sure. I'm about to try all the games that
> were causing a shut-down before.
>
> I'll post again later, assuming it doesn't shut down permanently.
>
> Damaeus
If you have another PSU, switch it out.
Buffalo
I

Damaeus[_3_]
November 15th 12, 02:32 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
> posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:22:03 -0700 the
following:

> If you have another PSU, switch it out.

I don't have enough money to have multiple computer parts lying around. I
do have OLD parts, like a couple of old motherboards. I only have one
power supply and I bought it new back in July 2012.

PSU: Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB 850w

I got a Thermaltake because I sort of thought it was a good brand.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 15th 12, 02:39 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:31:53 -0500 the following:

> > This is the first time I've had the 15" LCD reconnected, so now I guess
> > we'll find out for sure. I'm about to try all the games that were causing
> > a shut-down before.
>
> Even if there was a problem with Safety Ground connection on the AC
> side of your wiring, I don't think these symptoms would result. The
> shell of the monitor cable has a ground connection, so the monitor and
> computer will operate at a common ground potential.
>
> It could be that the motherboard has a weak PS_ON# signal, making
> a poor logic 0. (This is something you check with a multimeter.
> 0.4V to 0.8V or so would be a reasonable logic signal, in the
> active state. It should float up to close to 5.0V when the
> computer is soft-off.)
>
> The critical detail, is the correlation of events. If it *only*
> shuts down during 3D games, then PS_ON# would not care whether
> you were gaming or not. Games don't draw on +5VSB. So there is
> nothing there to de-stabilize the system. The video card power
> drain goes up. The CPU power drain goes up. But I don't know
> of any other mechanism (barring that SMBUS scan type of fault),
> that can shut down the computer. I can't see the video driver
> doing it.

Well, it WAS only shutting down in 3D games, but now it's shutting down in
a game that shouldn't be 3D. I mean, there's very little animation that
goes on, you can't spin the view to see it from different angles, when you
scroll around the game, there is no depth interpretation to make closer
objects move around more quickly than distant objects, etc.... It's like
scrolling around an old SimCity game.

Also, with the 27" LCD, I had a power-off event happen while the system
was booting up, just a few seconds after the desktop appeared.

So I reconnected the 15" LCD and had another power-off event after
Farmville 2 launched in a background tab in Chrome, so it wasn't even
full-screen when it happened. I'm pretty confident now in saying it's not
the monitor causing the problem, but in a horrible timing of events,
something went kapooey in the computer just a couple of days after hooking
up the new monitor.

> If we were debugging in the lab, we'd start at PS_ON# and
> work backwards. A schematic is generally recommended,
> as the logic tree has more than a few terms in it (SB and
> SuperI/O signals). I've debugged electronics without
> a schematic, but it isn't that much fun.

Yes, that gets too complicated for me. I'd have to learn as I go and I
wouldn't want to do that unless I'm horribly desperate. This is the time
when I usually start shopping for computer parts, but I am invariably
broke. I've got a couple of things I could sell on eBay, like one very
rare comic book -- and the creator of it has died since I bought it. I
can't remember what I paid for it, myself... it was somewhere between $65
and $145. And I've got one of only 1,000 copies of another book that I
paid $150 or so for. The two together might cover a motherboard. lol

At this point, I fear I'd probably lose power right when I'm about to list
them for sale.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 15th 12, 02:41 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:31:53 -0500 the following:

> Even if there was a problem with Safety Ground connection on the AC
> side of your wiring, I don't think these symptoms would result. The
> shell of the monitor cable has a ground connection, so the monitor and
> computer will operate at a common ground potential.

Oh, I'm not sure if having a desktop background image up and running
stresses anything more than having no background at all, so set the
background to plain black, just to see. It probably won't make any
difference, but maybe it does.

Chkdsk found a couple of entries in a couple of files, so it deleted those
entries. Those were the only two errors it found after all these
power-offs.

Damaeus

David W. Hodgins
November 15th 12, 03:23 AM
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:32:09 -0500, Damaeus > wrote:

> I don't have enough money to have multiple computer parts lying around. I
> do have OLD parts, like a couple of old motherboards. I only have one
> power supply and I bought it new back in July 2012.
>
> PSU: Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB 850w

There should be a sticker on the side, that indicates the
maximum amperage on each rail. What does it show for the +12 V Rail?

I had a problem described in
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups=#!topic/alt.comp.hardware/X6IE-tJpqXc

Turned out, when the video card drew too much from the +12V rail, the
system would spontaneously shutdown.

Easiest way to test, is to remove everything you can, that draws from
the +12V rail. Dvd, extra hard drives, any usb devices, etc., and see
if the system is stable with less draw.

Another way to test would be to add more usb devices, and confirm that it
won't even boot with more usb devices connected.

If this is the problem, it doesn't mean any of the parts are bad, just that
they are not suitable for the current configuration. Either the power supply
would have to be replaced with one that has a high enough rating on the +12V
rail, or the video card replaced with one that draws less power, or just keep
unneeded usb devices, etc., disconnected.

In the case I ran into, replacing the ps with one rated for 52 amps on the
+12V rail fixed the problem.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

Paul
November 15th 12, 03:27 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
> > posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:22:03 -0700 the
> following:
>
>> If you have another PSU, switch it out.
>
> I don't have enough money to have multiple computer parts lying around. I
> do have OLD parts, like a couple of old motherboards. I only have one
> power supply and I bought it new back in July 2012.
>
> PSU: Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB 850w
>
> I got a Thermaltake because I sort of thought it was a good brand.
>
> Damaeus

Quite a few companies, use OEM supplies. For example, your Thermaltake
power supply was probably actually made by ChannelWell (CWT).
If someday you're inside the PSU, with the cover off,
you may see transformers with CWT printed on them.

Several retail companies, might be using the same core
design as your supply. But when ChannelWell assembles them,
they can use a different parts list, depending on the
retailer's preference. That would affect the contract
price, but also perhaps, the "tier" the product
is marketed into. There can even be performance
differences (ones people with oscilloscopes check for),
even though the basic PCB for the power supply design is
the same. Like two identical base designs, one having
more output ripple at high load, than the other.

The only thing you have to watch for on ChannelWell, is
leaking caps. The two dead Antec supplies I have here,
were made by ChannelWell, and that's what killed them.
Antec has some of their supplies, made by Delta now.

It's one reason to read reviews if you can find them,
find out who makes the supply, whether all caps
are good. There are a couple sites that consider
technical issues, while a lot of the smaller
sites just admire "the color of the paint used"
on the outside of the PSU. Web sites with a proper
Chroma tester, are less common.

http://www.pcpower.com/accessories/individual-test-report.html

There are various ways to do that. Buy a Chroma is one.
Buy a cheaper brand, a more portable tester, made by
some other company. Or in some cases, web sites build their
own test equipment. At least one or two sites, they actually
do rather nice designs. Whereas in other cases, they do
designs like I might do them in my basement (like this) :-)
It all depends on what your budget is.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article269-page3.html

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 15th 12, 04:42 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:31:53 -0500 the following:

> If we were debugging in the lab, we'd start at PS_ON# and
> work backwards. A schematic is generally recommended,
> as the logic tree has more than a few terms in it (SB and
> SuperI/O signals). I've debugged electronics without
> a schematic, but it isn't that much fun.

I wonder if an old CMOS battery that won't hold a charge for more than
three minutes could cause it to shut down. I wouldn't think so. The
battery has been dead for a long time. I've had to reset the date and
time and other BIOS settings after a power failure for probably two years.
It's only been powering off for about a week and a half now.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 15th 12, 05:30 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:27:33 -0500 the following:

> Damaeus wrote:
>
> > I got a Thermaltake because I sort of thought it was a good brand.
>
> Quite a few companies, use OEM supplies. For example, your Thermaltake
> power supply was probably actually made by ChannelWell (CWT). If
> someday you're inside the PSU, with the cover off, you may see
> transformers with CWT printed on them.
>
> Several retail companies, might be using the same core design as your
> supply. But when ChannelWell assembles them, they can use a different
> parts list, depending on the retailer's preference. That would affect
> the contract price, but also perhaps, the "tier" the product is marketed
> into.

That, in my view, is an unacceptable business practice. If a company
designs a power supply to be build with specific parts for the reasons of
reliability, some company that builds it should not just change that parts
list just because some retailer has a preference. They probably just
prefer lower-cost parts so they can make more money. That just makes me
want to puke. I actually bought this one at BestBuy, and I have to admit,
because it was $20 cheaper there than it was at the local computer store.
I figured they were the same power supply inside and out.

If I was a millionaire, I don't suppose I would really care. I'd just
keep buying parts until the problem is fixed. I know nobody here can do
anything about my poverty, but I can't help expressing the frustration. I
simply can't afford to run around and buy a bunch of testing equipment,
new parts, etc... until I just happen to run across what finally fixes the
problem. And while I do have an old video card, it's an AGP card and this
motherboard does not have an AGP slot.

> There can even be performance differences (ones people with
> oscilloscopes check for), even though the basic PCB for the power supply
> design is the same. Like two identical base designs, one having more
> output ripple at high load, than the other.
>
> The only thing you have to watch for on ChannelWell, is leaking caps.
> The two dead Antec supplies I have here, were made by ChannelWell, and
> that's what killed them. Antec has some of their supplies, made by
> Delta now.

And I would have considered Antec a good power supply.

My last power supply actually had red and blue LEDs inside behind the fan
and it worked fine until July 2012 when I replaced it with what I thought
would be an even better brand. I don't even remember the brand of my old
power supply, but it was 500 or 550 watts and was red color with what
looked like one of those anodized finishes on it.

I don't like this feeling that I could just be sitting here typing a
message like this and suddenly it can all be lost when the power shuts
off.

> It's one reason to read reviews if you can find them, find out who makes
> the supply, whether all caps are good. There are a couple sites that
> consider technical issues, while a lot of the smaller sites just admire
> "the color of the paint used" on the outside of the PSU. Web sites with
> a proper Chroma tester, are less common.
>
> http://www.pcpower.com/accessories/individual-test-report.html
>
> There are various ways to do that. Buy a Chroma is one.

If I had $100,000 to spare, I'd buy a Chroma, even if I only got to use it
once every five years.

> Buy a cheaper brand, a more portable tester, made by some other company.
> Or in some cases, web sites build their own test equipment. At least
> one or two sites, they actually do rather nice designs. Whereas in
> other cases, they do designs like I might do them in my basement (like
> this) :-) It all depends on what your budget is.

I have 11 cents. If anybody asks me what I want for Christmas this year
(and I hate Christmas since I can't afford to get anybody anything, but I
usually end up receiving a few things) I'll definitely be saying I need a
means to buy computer parts.

It may be impossible to help me since I don't have the most basic thing
needed to fix a computer: money.

But remember! Studies show that having more money won't make you any
happier. Such bull****. :(

Damaeus

Buffalo[_2_]
November 15th 12, 07:11 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
> posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:27:33 -0500 the following:
>
>> Damaeus wrote:
>>
>>> I got a Thermaltake because I sort of thought it was a good brand.
>>
>> Quite a few companies, use OEM supplies. For example, your
>> Thermaltake power supply was probably actually made by ChannelWell
>> (CWT). If someday you're inside the PSU, with the cover off, you
>> may see transformers with CWT printed on them.
>>
>> Several retail companies, might be using the same core design as your
>> supply. But when ChannelWell assembles them, they can use a
>> different parts list, depending on the retailer's preference. That
>> would affect the contract price, but also perhaps, the "tier" the
>> product is marketed into.
>
> That, in my view, is an unacceptable business practice. If a company
> designs a power supply to be build with specific parts for the
> reasons of reliability, some company that builds it should not just
> change that parts list just because some retailer has a preference.
> They probably just prefer lower-cost parts so they can make more
> money. That just makes me want to puke. I actually bought this one
> at BestBuy, and I have to admit, because it was $20 cheaper there
> than it was at the local computer store. I figured they were the same
> power supply inside and out.
>
> If I was a millionaire, I don't suppose I would really care. I'd just
> keep buying parts until the problem is fixed. I know nobody here can
> do anything about my poverty, but I can't help expressing the
> frustration. I simply can't afford to run around and buy a bunch of
> testing equipment, new parts, etc... until I just happen to run
> across what finally fixes the problem. And while I do have an old
> video card, it's an AGP card and this motherboard does not have an
> AGP slot.
>
>> There can even be performance differences (ones people with
>> oscilloscopes check for), even though the basic PCB for the power
>> supply design is the same. Like two identical base designs, one
>> having more output ripple at high load, than the other.
>>
>> The only thing you have to watch for on ChannelWell, is leaking caps.
>> The two dead Antec supplies I have here, were made by ChannelWell,
>> and that's what killed them. Antec has some of their supplies, made
>> by Delta now.
>
> And I would have considered Antec a good power supply.
>
> My last power supply actually had red and blue LEDs inside behind the
> fan and it worked fine until July 2012 when I replaced it with what I
> thought would be an even better brand. I don't even remember the
> brand of my old power supply, but it was 500 or 550 watts and was red
> color with what looked like one of those anodized finishes on it.
>
> I don't like this feeling that I could just be sitting here typing a
> message like this and suddenly it can all be lost when the power shuts
> off.
>
>> It's one reason to read reviews if you can find them, find out who
>> makes the supply, whether all caps are good. There are a couple
>> sites that consider technical issues, while a lot of the smaller
>> sites just admire "the color of the paint used" on the outside of
>> the PSU. Web sites with a proper Chroma tester, are less common.
>>
>> http://www.pcpower.com/accessories/individual-test-report.html
>>
>> There are various ways to do that. Buy a Chroma is one.
>
> If I had $100,000 to spare, I'd buy a Chroma, even if I only got to
> use it once every five years.
>
>> Buy a cheaper brand, a more portable tester, made by some other
>> company. Or in some cases, web sites build their own test equipment.
>> At least one or two sites, they actually do rather nice designs.
>> Whereas in other cases, they do designs like I might do them in my
>> basement (like this) :-) It all depends on what your budget is.
>
> I have 11 cents. If anybody asks me what I want for Christmas this
> year (and I hate Christmas since I can't afford to get anybody
> anything, but I usually end up receiving a few things) I'll
> definitely be saying I need a means to buy computer parts.
>
> It may be impossible to help me since I don't have the most basic
> thing needed to fix a computer: money.
>
> But remember! Studies show that having more money won't make you any
> happier. Such bull****. :(
>
> Damaeus

Go into your PC and disconnect and reconnect all your electrical connectors
and also remove and reinsert all your cards. It is possible that one of the
connectors is burnt, faulty or making a poor connection. Perhaps even one of
your add on cards (vid, sound, etc) is not making good contact. This doesn't
even cost 11c, unless you damage something.
In Device Manager, are there any apparent problems marded by a yellow
exclamation symbol? On the back of the power supply, check that the switch
is all the way over to the proper voltage spot , perhaps even move it back
an forth a couple of times (power off of course) to make sure it is in the
proper spot.
May be a total waste of time, but it doesn't take long.
Buffalo

Damaeus[_3_]
November 15th 12, 10:03 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
> posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:11:32 -0700 the
following:

> Go into your PC and disconnect and reconnect all your electrical connectors
> and also remove and reinsert all your cards. It is possible that one of the
> connectors is burnt, faulty or making a poor connection. Perhaps even one of
> your add on cards (vid, sound, etc) is not making good contact. This doesn't
> even cost 11c, unless you damage something.

I think I might have just found the problem. I didn't even notice these
fans before, but there are two fans there and one of them is out. If this
is overheating, perhaps that's what's shutting the computer down. Here's
an image of it. I'm not sure what the chip under that heatsink does, but
the size of it indicates that it's important to keep it cool.

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg

I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
and just replace them both.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 15th 12, 10:06 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 03:03:56
-0600 the following:

> http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg
>
> I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
> can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
> I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
> this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
> fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
> and just replace them both.

Woops, I mean it might have just died recently. Even though I built this
thing, I don't remember seeing it there before, but maybe I'm kind of
absent-minded.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 15th 12, 10:23 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 03:03:56
-0600 the following:

> I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
> can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
> I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
> this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
> fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
> and just replace them both.

I'm not fully sure I can even replace those. The fans are part of the
motherboard, mounted by Abit. I see a screw holding the fan on, but the
second screw would be impossible to get to without removing that heatsink,
and I'm not even sure it can be removed.

Here's another image from the web. The two fans are pictured on the
bottom left corner of the motherboard, and you can see the location of the
heatsink over the Fatal1ty chip:

http://www.theinquirer.net/img/8083/an9a.jpg?1241332110

The two fans are mounted on the motherboard from the factory and I see
what looks like a spring-loaded gizmo in each corner of the heatsink. I'd
have to remove that to get to the fans, and I'd probably have to take the
whole motherboard out of the computer to have enough room to get in
there...and I'd probably have to take the heatsink off the CPU, too.

Now I like building computers...when they work the first time I put them
together, and so far, all of them have. But I don't like poking around
inside unless absolutely necessary because I don't have the money to
replace anything if I mess it up.

But at least I'll get the chance to do a deep cleaning on the innards.

What do you think? Am I on the right track? lol

Damaeus

Paul
November 15th 12, 11:17 AM
Damaeus wrote:

>
> That, in my view, is an unacceptable business practice. If a company
> designs a power supply to be build with specific parts for the reasons of
> reliability, some company that builds it should not just change that parts
> list just because some retailer has a preference. They probably just
> prefer lower-cost parts so they can make more money. That just makes me
> want to puke. I actually bought this one at BestBuy, and I have to admit,
> because it was $20 cheaper there than it was at the local computer store.
> I figured they were the same power supply inside and out.
>
> If I was a millionaire, I don't suppose I would really care. I'd just
> keep buying parts until the problem is fixed. I know nobody here can do
> anything about my poverty, but I can't help expressing the frustration. I
> simply can't afford to run around and buy a bunch of testing equipment,
> new parts, etc... until I just happen to run across what finally fixes the
> problem. And while I do have an old video card, it's an AGP card and this
> motherboard does not have an AGP slot.
>

I probably haven't done a very good job of explaining it.

The parts list for each power supply is consistent, and would stay
the same for the term of the contract.

It's the contract manufacturing step though, which tends to hide the
true source of what you're buying. If ThermalTake hired two contractors,
it might mean one of the products is higher quality than the other.
And then, for the customer, it's up to them to figure out which product
line is the "winner". (And you no longer think in terms of
"ThermalTake quality", because it depends on which contract manufacturer
made a particular product line.)

If I was to shop for Antec now, I'd pick the Delta manufactured
supply, rather than the ChannelWell one. (The Delta has a D in
the part number.)

There are companies that make their own supplies, and to some
extent, the faults seen, are common across a number of models.
With Fortron, it might be that the cables are too short for
your build. With Seasonic, they initially had problems with
slightly weak low voltage rails (like only being able to
draw half the rated 3.3V power). AFAIK that's been fixed. Not
only does Seasonic make their own supplies, they also contract
manufacture them.

PCPowerAndCooling also buys contract manufactured power supplies.
But they seemed to provide more input into the design process,
such that what they sold, wasn't compromised by who was
sourcing it. Since PCPower was bought out, they're not really
the same company any more, but some of the staff probably
stayed with the new owners.

Paul

Paul
November 15th 12, 11:47 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
> > posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:11:32 -0700 the
> following:
>
>> Go into your PC and disconnect and reconnect all your electrical connectors
>> and also remove and reinsert all your cards. It is possible that one of the
>> connectors is burnt, faulty or making a poor connection. Perhaps even one of
>> your add on cards (vid, sound, etc) is not making good contact. This doesn't
>> even cost 11c, unless you damage something.
>
> I think I might have just found the problem. I didn't even notice these
> fans before, but there are two fans there and one of them is out. If this
> is overheating, perhaps that's what's shutting the computer down. Here's
> an image of it. I'm not sure what the chip under that heatsink does, but
> the size of it indicates that it's important to keep it cool.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg
>
> I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
> can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
> I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
> this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
> fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
> and just replace them both.
>
> Damaeus

It could be a portion of the VCore regulator is hiding under there.

And using the heatpipe, the fans are also cooling the chipset (indirectly).

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 15th 12, 01:48 PM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 05:47:14 -0500 the following:

> Damaeus wrote:
>
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg
> >
> > I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
> > can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
> > I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
> > this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
> > fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
> > and just replace them both.
>
> It could be a portion of the VCore regulator is hiding under there.
>
> And using the heatpipe, the fans are also cooling the chipset (indirectly).

I had been reading online that ThermTrip doesn't work through the chipset,
but only the CPU. Yet the CPU is just not getting all that hot compared
to the temperature it must reach to start causing problems. I wonder if
some motherboards actually do switch off if the chipset gets too hot. It
does seem like it's important to keep that thing cool with a heatsink like
that.

The fans would be the least expensive thing to replace. I've read that
they can be replaced, but it looks like I'm going to have to actually
remove the motherboard from the case to do it.

I know I should replace that fan since it's out, but do you think that bad
fan could be causing the problem here?

For now, I have lowered the temperature in this room until I'm shivering,
hoping to keep the computer up at least for longer periods of time. I
used it for several hours doing light-duty things, then my friend came on
and kept sending me link after link to view on the web. After about an
hour of that, I had a switch-off.

All the regular case fans have been out in my case for a few years and for
that time, I've just kept the side of the case off and I have a big fan
next to it blowing on medium speed. That gives it far more airflow than
they'd get from the case fans, anyway, and it's worked fine like this for
all this time until the last week and a half. So I really don't think,
myself, that this could be a problem. Even when the electricity has gone
out and I run on the battery backup (the big fan is not connected to the
battery), I've not have power-off issues.

Brrrzzzzrrzrzrz... It's COLD in here! LOL It's in the 30s outside and I
have my window unit running on 65 degrees and the central air on 70
degrees. I didn't know it, but my roommate left the central heat on 74
degrees earlier and it got a bit warmer than usual, then the PC did start
switching itself off. I'm hoping this cooler air will help until I can
get a fan. Meanwhile, I'll just try to avoid doing anything that might be
too intense.

Earlier it shut down after I'd been using Google Street View for a while,
but generally, it remains on and running all night long with no programs
running aside from system tray things like the virus scanner, firewall,
monitor display management, Windows Update. I may turn off the indexing
for this Windows Search 4.0 I just recently got when getting all those
updates, and I'll re-enable it when I get the new fans, assuming I don't
mess something up trying to put them on the motherboard. I'm not looking
forward to this because I could cause more damage than I'm trying to fix.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 15th 12, 04:38 PM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "David W. Hodgins"
> posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:23:37 -0500
the following:

> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:32:09 -0500, Damaeus > wrote:
>
> > I don't have enough money to have multiple computer parts lying around. I
> > do have OLD parts, like a couple of old motherboards. I only have one
> > power supply and I bought it new back in July 2012.
> >
> > PSU: Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB 850w
>
> There should be a sticker on the side, that indicates the
> maximum amperage on each rail. What does it show for the +12 V Rail?

Here's a scan of the specification chart that came with the power supply.
I don't know why it says SP-850M. The "pretty painting" on the side of it
says "Smart M850W" and before I installed it, I wrote down what was on the
white label, which was "SP-850AH3CCB 850w". lol

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/sp-850m.jpg

It looks like the 12v rail is rated for 70 amps.

Damaeus

Paul
November 15th 12, 07:00 PM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
> posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 05:47:14 -0500 the following:
>
>> Damaeus wrote:
>>
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg
>>>
>>> I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
>>> can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
>>> I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
>>> this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
>>> fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
>>> and just replace them both.
>> It could be a portion of the VCore regulator is hiding under there.
>>
>> And using the heatpipe, the fans are also cooling the chipset (indirectly).
>
> I had been reading online that ThermTrip doesn't work through the chipset,
> but only the CPU. Yet the CPU is just not getting all that hot compared
> to the temperature it must reach to start causing problems. I wonder if
> some motherboards actually do switch off if the chipset gets too hot. It
> does seem like it's important to keep that thing cool with a heatsink like
> that.
>
> The fans would be the least expensive thing to replace. I've read that
> they can be replaced, but it looks like I'm going to have to actually
> remove the motherboard from the case to do it.
>
> I know I should replace that fan since it's out, but do you think that bad
> fan could be causing the problem here?
>
> For now, I have lowered the temperature in this room until I'm shivering,
> hoping to keep the computer up at least for longer periods of time. I
> used it for several hours doing light-duty things, then my friend came on
> and kept sending me link after link to view on the web. After about an
> hour of that, I had a switch-off.
>
> All the regular case fans have been out in my case for a few years and for
> that time, I've just kept the side of the case off and I have a big fan
> next to it blowing on medium speed. That gives it far more airflow than
> they'd get from the case fans, anyway, and it's worked fine like this for
> all this time until the last week and a half. So I really don't think,
> myself, that this could be a problem. Even when the electricity has gone
> out and I run on the battery backup (the big fan is not connected to the
> battery), I've not have power-off issues.
>
> Brrrzzzzrrzrzrz... It's COLD in here! LOL It's in the 30s outside and I
> have my window unit running on 65 degrees and the central air on 70
> degrees. I didn't know it, but my roommate left the central heat on 74
> degrees earlier and it got a bit warmer than usual, then the PC did start
> switching itself off. I'm hoping this cooler air will help until I can
> get a fan. Meanwhile, I'll just try to avoid doing anything that might be
> too intense.
>
> Earlier it shut down after I'd been using Google Street View for a while,
> but generally, it remains on and running all night long with no programs
> running aside from system tray things like the virus scanner, firewall,
> monitor display management, Windows Update. I may turn off the indexing
> for this Windows Search 4.0 I just recently got when getting all those
> updates, and I'll re-enable it when I get the new fans, assuming I don't
> mess something up trying to put them on the motherboard. I'm not looking
> forward to this because I could cause more damage than I'm trying to fix.
>
> Damaeus

A motherboard designer is free to include thermal protection
for anything they want. I report the "common" implementation,
which is THERMTRIP, and it's virtually free in terms of
hardware cost. Adding protection for other things, may involve
adding some logic. It can even be implemented with transistors
(Asus has done that when they needed to add logic functions).

The disadvantage of adding too many protection features, is
exactly what's happening to you. You can make a PC "too twitchy"
by putting thermal monitoring on everything. For uncommon implementations,
it helps if a LED is present, so you know what's going on.

Again, using an Asus idea from a while back, they put in AGP
slot protection, to protect 1.5V computers from 3.3V
AGP video cards. They included a red LED next to the slot.
If your computer would not start, you'd take the side off and
notice the red LED was illuminated. That's an intelligent way
to design an uncommon feature, so that users know what happened.
Just silently turning off the computer, isn't nearly as
friendly.

*******

Fans come in standard sizes, at least the square ones in brushless
DC form. I have a local electronics store, where I could expect
to find 40mm fans. You can see here, a couple thicknesses for
40mm fans. A thicker fan moves more CFM (cubic feet per minute).
The 10mm thick ones, are the kind you find in disk drive enclosures.
Thicker ones, are in things like your motherboard, or in rackmount
server computers. The small fans spin so fast, they tend to whine
and be annoying, which is why computer cases tend to use larger ones.

http://www.circuittest.com/cooling-fans-accessories/fans-dc/12vdc

The fans on video cards are more irregular, and you're less likely
to find an exact replacement when you need one. Replacing the
whole cooler assembly is the answer there.

Measure your fan, before you go shopping for a new one. The thickness
is a variable, whereas the outer (square) dimension tends to be
one of many standards. You also want to determine whether screw holes
are needed or not, for mounting. And whether the fan is to have a two
pin or three pin connector on the end.

The fans these guys sell, just have loose wires on the end. The info
here, says these fans use "locked rotor" for the third signal. If
using this in a computer, you use two of three wires (red and black for
+12V and GND), and tape up and don't use the yellow wire. The third
wire can be "2PP" or two pulse per rotation, an RPM signal which is
useful if the motherboard header has a pin for it. The "locked
rotor" option is preferred on instrumentation, as a fan fail indicator,
but a motherboard usually isn't prepared to deal with that. If you have
a three pin fan header for that 40mm fan, you might at least connect
up +12V and GND. And that's assuming they used a 12V fan. If they were
mean, they could have used a 5V fan. Just hope enough details are
printed on the fan hub, to guide you to a successful replacement.

http://www.circuittest.com/Media/Data/CTCAT-26.pdf

OK, this looks more like a computer-related one. This would be 2pp RPM
on the yellow wire. It's only 5.5CFM. It has the standard computer
connector on the end, so you don't need to add your own connector
like I do with the Circuittest ones.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835706027

This one is 15.8CFM and 9500 RPM. A screamer. You use fans like
this in rackmount servers, where users don't sit next to the
computer(s) for very long.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835706031

So there is some variation in cooling capability. And you have
to observe the existing fan, to know whether it's a wimpy (5.5)
or a screamer (16) CFM fan. The screamer has an audio rating of
41.9 dBA, and anything over 30 dBA you can hear. And because
of the piercing "tone" those small fans make, even 30dBA is
quite evident.

Paul

Buffalo[_2_]
November 17th 12, 09:43 PM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
> posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 05:47:14 -0500 the following:
>
>> Damaeus wrote:
>>
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg
>>>
>>> I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to
>>> see if I can switch those fans around so the working one is on the
>>> bottom. Then I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a
>>> replacement. So far, this is the least expensive move to make.
>>> And I don't even know when this fan died. It might have died a
>>> long time ago. I'm going to get two fans and just replace them
>>> both.
>>
>> It could be a portion of the VCore regulator is hiding under there.
>>
>> And using the heatpipe, the fans are also cooling the chipset
>> (indirectly).
>
> I had been reading online that ThermTrip doesn't work through the
> chipset, but only the CPU. Yet the CPU is just not getting all that
> hot compared to the temperature it must reach to start causing
> problems. I wonder if some motherboards actually do switch off if
> the chipset gets too hot. It does seem like it's important to keep
> that thing cool with a heatsink like that.
>
> The fans would be the least expensive thing to replace. I've read
> that they can be replaced, but it looks like I'm going to have to
> actually remove the motherboard from the case to do it.
>
> I know I should replace that fan since it's out, but do you think
> that bad fan could be causing the problem here?
>
> For now, I have lowered the temperature in this room until I'm
> shivering, hoping to keep the computer up at least for longer periods
> of time. I used it for several hours doing light-duty things, then
> my friend came on and kept sending me link after link to view on the
> web. After about an hour of that, I had a switch-off.
>
> All the regular case fans have been out in my case for a few years
> and for that time, I've just kept the side of the case off and I have
> a big fan next to it blowing on medium speed. That gives it far more
> airflow than they'd get from the case fans, anyway, and it's worked
> fine like this for all this time until the last week and a half. So
> I really don't think, myself, that this could be a problem. Even
> when the electricity has gone out and I run on the battery backup
> (the big fan is not connected to the battery), I've not have
> power-off issues.
>
> Brrrzzzzrrzrzrz... It's COLD in here! LOL It's in the 30s outside
> and I have my window unit running on 65 degrees and the central air
> on 70 degrees. I didn't know it, but my roommate left the central
> heat on 74 degrees earlier and it got a bit warmer than usual, then
> the PC did start switching itself off. I'm hoping this cooler air
> will help until I can get a fan. Meanwhile, I'll just try to avoid
> doing anything that might be too intense.
>
> Earlier it shut down after I'd been using Google Street View for a
> while, but generally, it remains on and running all night long with
> no programs running aside from system tray things like the virus
> scanner, firewall, monitor display management, Windows Update. I may
> turn off the indexing for this Windows Search 4.0 I just recently got
> when getting all those updates, and I'll re-enable it when I get the
> new fans, assuming I don't mess something up trying to put them on
> the motherboard. I'm not looking forward to this because I could
> cause more damage than I'm trying to fix.
>
> Damaeus

Have you tried directing a strong air flow over that failed chipset heatsink
with the failed fan.?
Hopefully you get the new fans installed and things work out. Some of those
chipset heatsinks (if that's what it is, are glued on with a material that
doesn't always conduct heat too well) need to be pried off , cleaned up and
reglued on with good stuff like Artic Silver stuff. There are methods to do
that pretty safely on the Internet.
Best of luck.
Buffalo

Damaeus[_3_]
November 18th 12, 07:07 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
> posted on Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:43:25 -0700 the
following:

> Have you tried directing a strong air flow over that failed chipset heatsink
> with the failed fan.?
> Hopefully you get the new fans installed and things work out. Some of those
> chipset heatsinks (if that's what it is, are glued on with a material that
> doesn't always conduct heat too well) need to be pried off , cleaned up and
> reglued on with good stuff like Artic Silver stuff. There are methods to do
> that pretty safely on the Internet.

For a long time, I've had the side off the case with a fan blowing inside
onto the hardware. At first I just used a small desktop fan with no
problem, but that fan died so I put a bigger room-cooling fan next to it.
It moves more air and I had no problems with that, either. I still think
it's this fan next to the chipset heatsink.

I put my window A/C unit on 65 degrees and set the central air on 66
degrees. I was able to keep the PC up and running for over 24 hours.
Daytime set in, and you know it's harder to keep the house cool in the
daytime. My PC shut down sometime late Sunday morning when I ran off and
left a browser game running.

Yes, I definitely think this is a heat issue.

I'm wondering about what speed I should use on the big fan blowing into
the case. I'm running on medium right now, while I had been running it on
low until running into this. I wonder if I should run the fan on high
until I get the little fan replaced. One of the fans sounds like it has
its bearings going out. The fan doesn't make noise all the time, but I
guess when the fan speed is increased or decreased, that's when I hear it,
so it comes and goes. I wondered about any kind of static electricity
from the big fan outside the case. The fan is as big as the case. I have
it blowing in at an angle, but that probably blows against the airflow of
the actual chipset fan that's working -- not that it matters too much. The
top fan only blows air through the top couple of fins on the chipset's
heatsink.

Damaeus

Paul
November 18th 12, 07:53 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
> > posted on Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:43:25 -0700 the
> following:
>
>> Have you tried directing a strong air flow over that failed chipset heatsink
>> with the failed fan.?
>> Hopefully you get the new fans installed and things work out. Some of those
>> chipset heatsinks (if that's what it is, are glued on with a material that
>> doesn't always conduct heat too well) need to be pried off , cleaned up and
>> reglued on with good stuff like Artic Silver stuff. There are methods to do
>> that pretty safely on the Internet.
>
> For a long time, I've had the side off the case with a fan blowing inside
> onto the hardware. At first I just used a small desktop fan with no
> problem, but that fan died so I put a bigger room-cooling fan next to it.
> It moves more air and I had no problems with that, either. I still think
> it's this fan next to the chipset heatsink.
>
> I put my window A/C unit on 65 degrees and set the central air on 66
> degrees. I was able to keep the PC up and running for over 24 hours.
> Daytime set in, and you know it's harder to keep the house cool in the
> daytime. My PC shut down sometime late Sunday morning when I ran off and
> left a browser game running.
>
> Yes, I definitely think this is a heat issue.
>
> I'm wondering about what speed I should use on the big fan blowing into
> the case. I'm running on medium right now, while I had been running it on
> low until running into this. I wonder if I should run the fan on high
> until I get the little fan replaced. One of the fans sounds like it has
> its bearings going out. The fan doesn't make noise all the time, but I
> guess when the fan speed is increased or decreased, that's when I hear it,
> so it comes and goes. I wondered about any kind of static electricity
> from the big fan outside the case. The fan is as big as the case. I have
> it blowing in at an angle, but that probably blows against the airflow of
> the actual chipset fan that's working -- not that it matters too much. The
> top fan only blows air through the top couple of fins on the chipset's
> heatsink.
>
> Damaeus

Have you ordered your replacement fans yet ?

When you remove the fans, also visually inspect that the heatsink
those fans blow on, is making good contact with the source of
the heat. They could use a sil-pad between the heatsink and components,
plus a couple plastic push-pins to hold down the heatsink. You want
to verify the heatsink is still secure, and making good thermal
contact. I would only really be concerned, if it fell off
in your hand.

At least on some motherboards, users discovered the joint between
a chipset-style heatsink and the thing underneath, was "dry". And
there was no thermal compound or sil-pad used. In which case,
the user can make an "improvement" to it, as long as no active
electrical components will end up with thermal compound on them.
So if correcting a manufacturing mistake like that, make sure
you won't accidentally be affecting something, that shouldn't
have paste on it.

(Example of a paste that can fill a small gap. If a large
gap is evident, this wouldn't do the job. It could ooze out.
Large gaps require other kinds of solutions, such as a
silicon rubber that cures in place.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100018

It's just as likely the heatsink isn't fitting properly, as it
is that the loss of one fan is causing it to overheat.

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 18th 12, 06:24 PM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Sun, 18 Nov 2012 01:53:58 -0500 the following:

> Damaeus wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering about what speed I should use on the big fan blowing into
> > the case. I'm running on medium right now, while I had been running it on
> > low until running into this. I wonder if I should run the fan on high
> > until I get the little fan replaced. One of the fans sounds like it has
> > its bearings going out. The fan doesn't make noise all the time, but I
> > guess when the fan speed is increased or decreased, that's when I hear it,
> > so it comes and goes. I wondered about any kind of static electricity
> > from the big fan outside the case. The fan is as big as the case. I have
> > it blowing in at an angle, but that probably blows against the airflow of
> > the actual chipset fan that's working -- not that it matters too much. The
> > top fan only blows air through the top couple of fins on the chipset's
> > heatsink.
>
> Have you ordered your replacement fans yet ?

No, I'm going to go buy them at a local computer store if they have them,
after I procure funding. I'm doing some work for someone and I should be
getting something to work with soon.

> When you remove the fans, also visually inspect that the heatsink
> those fans blow on, is making good contact with the source of
> the heat. They could use a sil-pad between the heatsink and components,
> plus a couple plastic push-pins to hold down the heatsink. You want
> to verify the heatsink is still secure, and making good thermal
> contact. I would only really be concerned, if it fell off
> in your hand.

There are four pushpins+IBQ-two on the top, and two on the bottom on each side
of the "heat pipe".

http://home.earthlink.net/+AH4-damaeus/img/chipset-heatsink.jpg
(270 KB)

I have never removed that heatsink, nor have I even touched it, and I hope
I don't have to take it off to get the fan off. The head of the screw,
unfortunately, is between the heatsink and the fan housing. But there's a
snap-on panel on the back+IBQ-the one sent by Abit to match the holes to all
the plugs and whatnot on the motherboard so they can be used. I'm hoping
that pulling that panel off will reveal an easy way to change the fans
without having to actually take the motherboard out of the case. If I
have to turn the screws so close the heatsink, I can't see how I can get
around taking that heatsink off. And then, if something is between the
chip and the heatsink, there's the problem of cleaning the heatsink, and
trying to clean the chip underneath without messing it up.

http://home.earthlink.net/+AH4-damaeus/img/fan-screw.jpg
(201 KB)

As it is now, the heatsink should be secure.

By the way, those pictures amaze me because I snapped them while the PC
was running. There is no blur on the CPU fan, but it was spinning when I
took the picture.

> At least on some motherboards, users discovered the joint between
> a chipset-style heatsink and the thing underneath, was "dry". And
> there was no thermal compound or sil-pad used. In which case,
> the user can make an "improvement" to it, as long as no active
> electrical components will end up with thermal compound on them.
> So if correcting a manufacturing mistake like that, make sure
> you won't accidentally be affecting something, that shouldn't
> have paste on it.
>
> (Example of a paste that can fill a small gap. If a large
> gap is evident, this wouldn't do the job. It could ooze out.
> Large gaps require other kinds of solutions, such as a
> silicon rubber that cures in place.)
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100018
>
> It's just as likely the heatsink isn't fitting properly, as it
> is that the loss of one fan is causing it to overheat.

Well, the one fan that's out is the fan that blows through the biggest
part of the heatsink. If it was the top fan, I'd be more concerned. Plus,
this computer has never behaved like this before. It's always been really
stable.

Here's what the fan and PC look like as a pair. lol

http://home.earthlink.net/+AH4-damaeus/img/big-fan.jpg
(96 KB)

That setup with the big fan running on high and a temperature in the room
of about 67 degrees, I've seen lower temperature readings across the board
in HWiNFO32, and it has not shut down on me with these lower temperatures.

It took some time, but I'm glad to finally be getting to the root of it.

I actually had HWiNFO32 logging the readings when my PC did shut down
yesterday. The last log in the entry was the last thing my computer
remembered. It's a CSV file in a ZIP. The ZIP is 22k, if you're
interested in seeing. I think that was when I ran off and left a browser
game running, specifically Total Domination: Nuclear Strategy. There was
a lot of CPU activity going on when it powered down.

http://home.earthlink.net/+AH4-damaeus/dl/hw-statlog.zip

Oh oh oh! I just noticed something in that log. The last entry for the
core clock shows a sudden jump from a normal 2210.2 to 2349.3! What on
Earth would cause my core clock to suddenly jump? That's when it stopped
logging because the PC shut down!

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 18th 12, 06:37 PM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> posted on Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:24:52
-0600 the following:

> Oh oh oh! I just noticed something in that log. The last entry for the
> core clock shows a sudden jump from a normal 2210.2 to 2349.3! What on
> Earth would cause my core clock to suddenly jump? That's when it stopped
> logging because the PC shut down!

I must have gotten excited for nothing. HWiNFO32 shows that my core clock
has been as high as 3142.1 MHz on Core #0, and 3548.5 MHz on Core #1.

Damaeus

PS - It's so cold in here I can hardly type, but the PC loves it.

Paul
November 18th 12, 08:30 PM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
> posted on Sun, 18 Nov 2012 01:53:58 -0500 the following:
>
>> Damaeus wrote:
>>
>>> I'm wondering about what speed I should use on the big fan blowing into
>>> the case. I'm running on medium right now, while I had been running it on
>>> low until running into this. I wonder if I should run the fan on high
>>> until I get the little fan replaced. One of the fans sounds like it has
>>> its bearings going out. The fan doesn't make noise all the time, but I
>>> guess when the fan speed is increased or decreased, that's when I hear it,
>>> so it comes and goes. I wondered about any kind of static electricity
>>> from the big fan outside the case. The fan is as big as the case. I have
>>> it blowing in at an angle, but that probably blows against the airflow of
>>> the actual chipset fan that's working -- not that it matters too much. The
>>> top fan only blows air through the top couple of fins on the chipset's
>>> heatsink.
>> Have you ordered your replacement fans yet ?
>
> No, I'm going to go buy them at a local computer store if they have them,
> after I procure funding. I'm doing some work for someone and I should be
> getting something to work with soon.
>
>> When you remove the fans, also visually inspect that the heatsink
>> those fans blow on, is making good contact with the source of
>> the heat. They could use a sil-pad between the heatsink and components,
>> plus a couple plastic push-pins to hold down the heatsink. You want
>> to verify the heatsink is still secure, and making good thermal
>> contact. I would only really be concerned, if it fell off
>> in your hand.
>
> There are four pushpins—two on the top, and two on the bottom on each side
> of the "heat pipe".
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/chipset-heatsink.jpg
> (270 KB)
>
> I have never removed that heatsink, nor have I even touched it, and I hope
> I don't have to take it off to get the fan off. The head of the screw,
> unfortunately, is between the heatsink and the fan housing. But there's a
> snap-on panel on the back—the one sent by Abit to match the holes to all
> the plugs and whatnot on the motherboard so they can be used. I'm hoping
> that pulling that panel off will reveal an easy way to change the fans
> without having to actually take the motherboard out of the case. If I
> have to turn the screws so close the heatsink, I can't see how I can get
> around taking that heatsink off. And then, if something is between the
> chip and the heatsink, there's the problem of cleaning the heatsink, and
> trying to clean the chip underneath without messing it up.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-screw.jpg
> (201 KB)
>
> As it is now, the heatsink should be secure.
>
> By the way, those pictures amaze me because I snapped them while the PC
> was running. There is no blur on the CPU fan, but it was spinning when I
> took the picture.
>
>> At least on some motherboards, users discovered the joint between
>> a chipset-style heatsink and the thing underneath, was "dry". And
>> there was no thermal compound or sil-pad used. In which case,
>> the user can make an "improvement" to it, as long as no active
>> electrical components will end up with thermal compound on them.
>> So if correcting a manufacturing mistake like that, make sure
>> you won't accidentally be affecting something, that shouldn't
>> have paste on it.
>>
>> (Example of a paste that can fill a small gap. If a large
>> gap is evident, this wouldn't do the job. It could ooze out.
>> Large gaps require other kinds of solutions, such as a
>> silicon rubber that cures in place.)
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100018
>>
>> It's just as likely the heatsink isn't fitting properly, as it
>> is that the loss of one fan is causing it to overheat.
>
> Well, the one fan that's out is the fan that blows through the biggest
> part of the heatsink. If it was the top fan, I'd be more concerned. Plus,
> this computer has never behaved like this before. It's always been really
> stable.
>
> Here's what the fan and PC look like as a pair. lol
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/big-fan.jpg
> (96 KB)
>
> That setup with the big fan running on high and a temperature in the room
> of about 67 degrees, I've seen lower temperature readings across the board
> in HWiNFO32, and it has not shut down on me with these lower temperatures.
>
> It took some time, but I'm glad to finally be getting to the root of it.
>
> I actually had HWiNFO32 logging the readings when my PC did shut down
> yesterday. The last log in the entry was the last thing my computer
> remembered. It's a CSV file in a ZIP. The ZIP is 22k, if you're
> interested in seeing. I think that was when I ran off and left a browser
> game running, specifically Total Domination: Nuclear Strategy. There was
> a lot of CPU activity going on when it powered down.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/dl/hw-statlog.zip
>
> Oh oh oh! I just noticed something in that log. The last entry for the
> core clock shows a sudden jump from a normal 2210.2 to 2349.3! What on
> Earth would cause my core clock to suddenly jump? That's when it stopped
> logging because the PC shut down!
>
> Damaeus

In the Newegg photo, I can't see any screws in those fans.
I do see a white material underneath the fans, like they
were held in place with double-sided tape.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-127-237-03.jpg

( from http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127237 )

You're going to be pulling that board, to do the repair.

If that is double-sided tape they've used, you'll need a
bit of that as well. So the repair will actually be an
ugly job, not a nice neat one.

You don't want to use any material you can't get off again,
such as two component epoxy. That would be a mistake (unless
your plan is to replace the motherboard/CPU/RAM when the next
failure occurs).

And no matter how you do it, the clearances there are rather tight.
You have to make sure the fans don't jam on the backplate, or
on the heatsink on the other side of the fan.

You would have thought they'd have made the aluminum heatsink,
as a retainer for the fans. That would have been a logical
way to do it. And making heatsinks is easy when
they're extruded. And the companies that make heatsinks, they
can make any shape you want in cross-section. But things
you'd want to avoid, would be post-machining, such as tapping
the holes and putting nice threads in them. That's why, when
fans are fitted in other places, they use self-tapping
screws. But screws on an assembly line are a no-no,
as most of the other steps in manufacturing are automated.
Only the two minute final test, is manual. And that's
a pretty expensive operation, if you make four million
motherboards a month. Using tape, as it appears they've
done, avoids metal filings from self-tapping screws, and
it's a bit cleaner. It is still time consuming, and I don't
think any automatic pick-n-place machine can "do tape".

Um, Good Luck,

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 19th 12, 07:02 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:30:00 -0500 the following:

> You're going to be pulling that board, to do the repair.
>
> If that is double-sided tape they've used, you'll need a
> bit of that as well. So the repair will actually be an
> ugly job, not a nice neat one.

Maybe I'll just take the motherboard out and take it to the computer store
to let them install new fans. But at the computer store I use, I once
asked the guy if he'd put the processor on the motherboard with some
arctic silver for me. He pulled out a screwdriver to scrape the thermal
pad off the heatsink and that's when I told him I'd just do it myself. I
didn't see how he could use a screwdriver on a heatsink without scarring
the surface. That was the Abit KT7A-RAID I built back around 2000 or so.

[...]
> And no matter how you do it, the clearances there are rather tight.
> You have to make sure the fans don't jam on the backplate, or
> on the heatsink on the other side of the fan.
[...]
> Um, Good Luck,

Haha... Thanks. It'd be a shame to say this motherboard is "dead" just
because of a little $5.00 fan.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 23rd 12, 01:33 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> posted on Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:02:10
-0600 the following:

> Haha... Thanks. It'd be a shame to say this motherboard is "dead" just
> because of a little $5.00 fan.

Well, I took out the motherboard and did manage to remove the two
heatsinks and the "heat bar" to get to the fan, which I did remove. But
before I even got that far, I noticed one capacitor by the PCIe slot that
was bulging a little and leaking some black stuff. Just to make sure, I
took the board to a computer repair shop and he verified that the
capacitor was bad. I asked if he could solder on a new one; he said it
could be done, but there would be no guarantee that the result would work.
So I re-installed an older Abit NF7 motherboard that I was using before.

I'm now starting a new thread with a different kind of problem: The
GeForce FX 5600 XT graphics card I'm using shows on the web that it will
pump out a 1920 x 1080 display, but the options panel doesn't have a
setting higher than 1600 x 1024.

Damaeus

Paul
November 23rd 12, 02:08 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
> > posted on Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:02:10
> -0600 the following:
>
>> Haha... Thanks. It'd be a shame to say this motherboard is "dead" just
>> because of a little $5.00 fan.
>
> Well, I took out the motherboard and did manage to remove the two
> heatsinks and the "heat bar" to get to the fan, which I did remove. But
> before I even got that far, I noticed one capacitor by the PCIe slot that
> was bulging a little and leaking some black stuff. Just to make sure, I
> took the board to a computer repair shop and he verified that the
> capacitor was bad. I asked if he could solder on a new one; he said it
> could be done, but there would be no guarantee that the result would work.
> So I re-installed an older Abit NF7 motherboard that I was using before.
>
> I'm now starting a new thread with a different kind of problem: The
> GeForce FX 5600 XT graphics card I'm using shows on the web that it will
> pump out a 1920 x 1080 display, but the options panel doesn't have a
> setting higher than 1600 x 1024.
>
> Damaeus

On digital outputs such as DVI or HDMI, some early cards
didn't fully meet spec on clock speed. The clock can go
up to 165MHz on a compliant first-generation port. Some
of the "defective" designs, only meet eye opening at
135MHz.

In this picture, the DVI is only compliant at 141MHz.
And by the way, 141MHz is just the clock signal - there
are ten data bits serially, per clock bit, so the data
stream is 1410 Mbit/sec in that case. It's actually
pretty fast. (It's non-compliant,when the "colored" part
touches the deep blue "fixed template", on a normalized
waveform.)

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/the-tft-connection,review-1128-18.html

In order to hide their shame, the driver writers put in
resolution restrictions, so you won't see the side-effects
of non-compliant DVI or HDMI ports. In one case, the driver
writer even did the math wrong, and blocked something like
1440x900 as well. By preventing users from selecting high
resolutions on digital output ports, it prevents the
users from seeing "colored snow" mixed with their image info.

Now, a VGA port, the driver writer shouldn't have coded
a restriction in there. And 1920 or higher could well be
possible in that case. Of course, not all monitors have VGA
as an option, so there's no workaround if you don't have
VGA. You could perhaps, buy a VGA to DVI converter, but for
the price, you could also buy a new video card. Preferably,
a card at least one generation later than the "defective" ones.

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 24th 12, 12:23 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:08:54 -0500 the following:

> Now, a VGA port, the driver writer shouldn't have coded
> a restriction in there. And 1920 or higher could well be
> possible in that case. Of course, not all monitors have VGA
> as an option, so there's no workaround if you don't have
> VGA. You could perhaps, buy a VGA to DVI converter, but for
> the price, you could also buy a new video card. Preferably,
> a card at least one generation later than the "defective" ones.

This monitor has an input that LOOKS like a VGA input, but it's labeled
"D-SUB". And really, man, this PC is S-L-O-W. It amazes me now that I
could ever have enjoyed using it before. The graphics card only has 128
megabytes of video memory. I can't wait to get some new hardware, but
having this is better than having nothing at all...sort of. It won't even
play Farmville 2 worth a diddily damn.

The fan on the graphics card made a horrible, wavering whining noise. I
checked and it was spinning, but not very fast. I could actually make out
the fan blades spinning, but then it speeded up and isn't making noise
anymore. If I try to run at 1920 x 1080 through the VGA port, I might
just finish this card off. I only have a couple of other video cards. One
is a GeForce FX 5200, and the other is a GeForce 2 Ultra. Unfortunately I
gave my old GeForce 6800GT to a friend, thinking I'd never need it again.
How wrong I was! I'd LOVE to have that card back right now because it
would run fine in this system. It was what I was using before I built the
one that died. :(

Web research shows this monitor does have a VGA input, so I guess that's
what the "D-SUB" actually is. I don't know why it's labeled that way. I'm
tired enough of this non-preferred resolution and weird appearance of
fonts that I'm willing to try VGA to see if I can get there without frying
the video card. It's supposed to do up to 2550 x something at 100 Hz,
which is pretty amazing, but I only need 60 Hz for this monitor. Maybe
that'll help keep the burners down.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 24th 12, 12:52 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:08:54 -0500 the following:

> Now, a VGA port, the driver writer shouldn't have coded
> a restriction in there. And 1920 or higher could well be
> possible in that case. Of course, not all monitors have VGA
> as an option, so there's no workaround if you don't have
> VGA. You could perhaps, buy a VGA to DVI converter, but for
> the price, you could also buy a new video card. Preferably,
> a card at least one generation later than the "defective" ones.

Okay! I'm now running with the VGA cable and 1920 x 1080! It looks a lot
better like this than it did running subresolution with the DVI cable. I'm
happy with this until my video card fries or I get a new rig.

Thanks for all the help. You've been very patient. :)

I doubt this thing will run Final Fantasy XI at 1920 x 1080 at a decent
frame rate, but the game itself is limited to 30FPS, so maybe it'll be
okay. In areas of high density traffic from other players, even with my
GeForce 7950 GTOC, the frame rate would sometimes drop to 5FPS, but it's
still fun.

Damaeus

Damaeus[_3_]
November 24th 12, 01:29 AM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:08:54 -0500 the following:

> Now, a VGA port, the driver writer shouldn't have coded
> a restriction in there. And 1920 or higher could well be
> possible in that case. Of course, not all monitors have VGA
> as an option, so there's no workaround if you don't have
> VGA. You could perhaps, buy a VGA to DVI converter, but for
> the price, you could also buy a new video card. Preferably,
> a card at least one generation later than the "defective" ones.

Good lord! I was using Google Chrome for about five minutes and it
suddenly crashed with a message:

"Woah! Google Chrome as crashed. Relaunched now?"

And when I relaunch, I immediately get the same message. :\

Every time I try something new with this system, something goes wrong.
/sigh Cause and effect?

Damaeus

Paul
November 24th 12, 02:25 AM
Damaeus wrote:
> In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
> posted on Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:08:54 -0500 the following:
>
>> Now, a VGA port, the driver writer shouldn't have coded
>> a restriction in there. And 1920 or higher could well be
>> possible in that case. Of course, not all monitors have VGA
>> as an option, so there's no workaround if you don't have
>> VGA. You could perhaps, buy a VGA to DVI converter, but for
>> the price, you could also buy a new video card. Preferably,
>> a card at least one generation later than the "defective" ones.
>
> Good lord! I was using Google Chrome for about five minutes and it
> suddenly crashed with a message:
>
> "Woah! Google Chrome as crashed. Relaunched now?"
>
> And when I relaunch, I immediately get the same message. :\
>
> Every time I try something new with this system, something goes wrong.
> /sigh Cause and effect?
>
> Damaeus

There are some suggestions here. I take it one of the suggestions, moves
some registry stuff out of the way.

http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=142063

But what I'd be searching for is "Hardware Acceleration" settings.

Adobe Flash has a hardware acceleration setting. There is a dialog
that opens in the middle of a Flash movie window, that includes a
tick box for hardware acceleration.

Browsers have also taken to hardware acceleration.

But with your hardware (and mine), our cards don't have a lot to
offer. Our programmable shaders standard is probably too old for
that sort of thing. Video cards have had 2D acceleration (bitblt)
for a long time. I don't know if they bother with that or not,
as it's hardly worth it. Video cards have had IDCT for some
forms of movie decoding, but that isn't a "general purpose" form
of acceleration. I can't imagine what construct would be dying
with the hardware acceleration.

When the browser session starts, you want to tell it to *not* load
the last windows. Where you were surfing, the source code
tipped over your browser. So you'd want to start a fresh session,
and see if the browser will stay up with just a blank page
in view. If your home page is "Youtube", then that might immediately
fire up Adobe Flash, and test Flash hardware acceleration.

Maybe the browser has a "Safe Mode" or load without plugins ?
At least for one session, before you turn it all back on again
and re-test.

Anyway, that's where I'd head. At least, until you indicate that
something unrelated to video seems to be crashing. If Wordpad
was crashing, you'd be looking at CPU or RAM perhaps, as much as
anything else. But with browsers, there are a few forms of
hardware acceleration. Either in plugins, or in the main
body of the browser code. Older browser code, doesn't use hardware
acceleration, and in a way, you can blame the work Adobe Flash did,
for attracting others to take that route. The thing is, the code
they write for that, doesn't seem to be quite the same quality
as code for 3D games. It's almost like they don't have a big
enough testing group, to make sure it all works.

Paul

Damaeus[_3_]
November 24th 12, 11:14 PM
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul >
posted on Fri, 23 Nov 2012 20:25:51 -0500 the following:

> There are some suggestions here. I take it one of the suggestions, moves
> some registry stuff out of the way.
>
> http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=142063
>
> But what I'd be searching for is "Hardware Acceleration" settings.
>
> Adobe Flash has a hardware acceleration setting. There is a dialog
> that opens in the middle of a Flash movie window, that includes a
> tick box for hardware acceleration.
>
> Browsers have also taken to hardware acceleration.

After I let Chrome rest for a while, I was magically able to relaunch it
normally. So far it hasn't happened again, but since that was the first
time I ever saw that message (and the first time I had ever used this
monitor with a VGA cable), of course, all my flags flew out.

Thanks again!

Damaeus