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Skybuck Flying[_7_]
June 12th 11, 12:41 PM
Hello,

I switched my monitor from GT 520 graphics card to integrated graphics
RADEON 3300 chip/monitor connector.

So there are two hdmi connectors.

I noticed how the computer appeared to refuse to boot when there was no
monitor connected ?!?

Is that normal ? Is this a new kind of motherboard feature ?

(Perhaps it's a conspiracy ;) :) People trying to boot "planks" with "beeps"
will think it's dead and buy a new one ! ;) :) =))

Bye,
Skybuck.

Skybuck Flying[_7_]
June 12th 11, 12:43 PM
Or maybe it's some kind of protection feature or even a bug in the
bios/motherboard.

Perhaps the second hdmi is not to be used if it's not the primary.

Perhaps it must first be configured in bios.

I think what I did was:

1. Set it up correctly.

2. Switch monitor connections.

3. The monitor or system didn't wanna boot or something.

4. After a reset it did boot ?!?

Something like that...

^ Me a bit confused about that.

Bye,
Skybuck.

TTman
June 12th 11, 04:41 PM
"Skybuck Flying" > wrote in message
b.home.nl...
> Hello,
>
> I switched my monitor from GT 520 graphics card to integrated graphics
> RADEON 3300 chip/monitor connector.
>
> So there are two hdmi connectors.
>
> I noticed how the computer appeared to refuse to boot when there was no
> monitor connected ?!?
>
> Is that normal ? Is this a new kind of motherboard feature ?
>
> (Perhaps it's a conspiracy ;) :) People trying to boot "planks" with
> "beeps" will think it's dead and buy a new one ! ;) :) =))
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck.

Did you try both connectors? Are they really HDMI ? I thought was was
exclusively for TVs.....

Dave Platt
June 12th 11, 06:39 PM
In article e.nl>,
Skybuck Flying > wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I switched my monitor from GT 520 graphics card to integrated graphics
>RADEON 3300 chip/monitor connector.
>
>So there are two hdmi connectors.
>
>I noticed how the computer appeared to refuse to boot when there was no
>monitor connected ?!?
>
>Is that normal ? Is this a new kind of motherboard feature ?

There has been a feature in many motherboard BIOSes, for the last
couple of decades, which will deliberately halt the boot process and
wait for operator intervention if certain classes of hardware problems
are detected on boot. Bad or missing floppy drive, bad or missing
keyboard, bad or missing or unusable video adapter... etc.

I would guess that if you don't have the HDMI monitor plugged into
the connector, the video-card driver in the BIOS is failing to
detect any primary monitor, can't configure the video-card output in
the appropriate way, and is reporting a "video output failure"
condition.

The "halt boot on hardware error" behavior can almost always be
configured to some extent, via the BIOS setup screens or a separate
BIOS configuration program. For systems which normally run
unattended, it is common to set this option to "Continue to boot
despite any errors detected by the BIOS".

>(Perhaps it's a conspiracy ;) :) People trying to boot "planks" with "beeps"
>will think it's dead and buy a new one ! ;) :) =))

It's an Ignorance Detector. It selectively identifies computer users
who are (1) ignorant of decades of history of PC history, and (2)
don't bother to read the manual which came with their motherboard.

--
Dave Platt > AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Paul
June 12th 11, 08:43 PM
Skybuck Flying wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I switched my monitor from GT 520 graphics card to integrated graphics
> RADEON 3300 chip/monitor connector.
>
> So there are two hdmi connectors.
>
> I noticed how the computer appeared to refuse to boot when there was no
> monitor connected ?!?
>
> Is that normal ? Is this a new kind of motherboard feature ?
>
> (Perhaps it's a conspiracy ;) :) People trying to boot "planks" with
> "beeps" will think it's dead and buy a new one ! ;) :) =))
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck.

See the user manual.

Check for "Primary Graphics Adapter". Values are
[PCI], [Onboard], [PCI Express].

The setting controls the search for video adapters, and
may make a difference to whether the BIOS will display
on the screen or not.

While the monitor is connected to the video card, change
it to [Onboard], save and exit, then move the monitor
to the motherboard video connector and see what happens.

It shouldn't make a difference to booting, so I don't know
whether this is going to help or not.

*******

Another setting you would have been able to try, would be

"Halt On" [No Errors]

but your Asrock BIOS doesn't have that option. Perhaps
you could bypass a video problem, with a setting like that,
but it isn't available according to the manual. Take a
look through your BIOS screens, to see if it actually exists.

Paul

Skybuck Flying[_7_]
June 12th 11, 10:36 PM
You probably right I mixed them up...

It's called dvi... stupid me

Sorry for confusion ! ;) :)

Bye,
Skybuck.

"TTman" wrote in message ...


"Skybuck Flying" > wrote in message
b.home.nl...
> Hello,
>
> I switched my monitor from GT 520 graphics card to integrated graphics
> RADEON 3300 chip/monitor connector.
>
> So there are two hdmi connectors.
>
> I noticed how the computer appeared to refuse to boot when there was no
> monitor connected ?!?
>
> Is that normal ? Is this a new kind of motherboard feature ?
>
> (Perhaps it's a conspiracy ;) :) People trying to boot "planks" with
> "beeps" will think it's dead and buy a new one ! ;) :) =))
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck.

Did you try both connectors? Are they really HDMI ? I thought was was
exclusively for TVs.....

Skybuck Flying[_7_]
June 12th 11, 10:39 PM
Assumption is the mother of all fok ups.

You assume my motherboard came with a bios manual.

As far as I know and can tell it did not.

Apperently this was a cost saving.

However perhaps online there will be a motherboard manual.

Why they simply don't put all that information in the bios itself is beyond
me.

Instead they waste precious space with nice looking boot pictures...

Bleh ! ;) =D

Boot failures are rare for me, so my mind don't record settings like that !
;)

I can vaguely remember seeing it... "halt on boot error" or so it's probably
called on old 80486.

So again another bad assumption of you ! ;)

I simply can't remember everything ! ;)

Bye,
Skybuck.

"Dave Platt" wrote in message ...

In article e.nl>,
Skybuck Flying > wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I switched my monitor from GT 520 graphics card to integrated graphics
>RADEON 3300 chip/monitor connector.
>
>So there are two hdmi connectors.
>
>I noticed how the computer appeared to refuse to boot when there was no
>monitor connected ?!?
>
>Is that normal ? Is this a new kind of motherboard feature ?

There has been a feature in many motherboard BIOSes, for the last
couple of decades, which will deliberately halt the boot process and
wait for operator intervention if certain classes of hardware problems
are detected on boot. Bad or missing floppy drive, bad or missing
keyboard, bad or missing or unusable video adapter... etc.

I would guess that if you don't have the HDMI monitor plugged into
the connector, the video-card driver in the BIOS is failing to
detect any primary monitor, can't configure the video-card output in
the appropriate way, and is reporting a "video output failure"
condition.

The "halt boot on hardware error" behavior can almost always be
configured to some extent, via the BIOS setup screens or a separate
BIOS configuration program. For systems which normally run
unattended, it is common to set this option to "Continue to boot
despite any errors detected by the BIOS".

>(Perhaps it's a conspiracy ;) :) People trying to boot "planks" with
>"beeps"
>will think it's dead and buy a new one ! ;) :) =))

It's an Ignorance Detector. It selectively identifies computer users
who are (1) ignorant of decades of history of PC history, and (2)
don't bother to read the manual which came with their motherboard.

--
Dave Platt > AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Skybuck Flying[_7_]
June 13th 11, 03:26 PM
"Paul" wrote in message ...

Skybuck Flying wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I switched my monitor from GT 520 graphics card to integrated graphics
> RADEON 3300 chip/monitor connector.
>
> So there are two hdmi connectors.
>
> I noticed how the computer appeared to refuse to boot when there was no
> monitor connected ?!?
>
> Is that normal ? Is this a new kind of motherboard feature ?
>
> (Perhaps it's a conspiracy ;) :) People trying to boot "planks" with
> "beeps" will think it's dead and buy a new one ! ;) :) =))
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck.

"
Another setting you would have been able to try, would be

"Halt On" [No Errors]

but your Asrock BIOS doesn't have that option. Perhaps
you could bypass a video problem, with a setting like that,
but it isn't available according to the manual. Take a
look through your BIOS screens, to see if it actually exists.
"

Good idea, I booted the pc into the bios, and there is an option called:

Boot Failure Guard [enabled]
Boot Failure Guard Count [3]

So this looks suspicious and might be the reason why it didn’t boot without
a monitor attached.

Bye,
Skybuck.

Paul
June 13th 11, 10:47 PM
Skybuck Flying wrote:

>
> Good idea, I booted the pc into the bios, and there is an option called:
>
> Boot Failure Guard [enabled]
> Boot Failure Guard Count [3]
>
> So this looks suspicious and might be the reason why it didn’t boot
> without a monitor attached.
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck.

Boot Failure Guard is there to help people who overclock.

My previous Asrock board had that option. If you press the
reset button, three times in a row, with a two second delay
between presses, it tells the computer that some setting
is preventing a normal boot. Such an option saves the user
from having to "Clear CMOS" to regain control of the computer.
It is a handy feature.

In your BIOS screen, they've made that feature adjustable.
On my older motherboard, the function was always turned on
and was set to "3". If the motherboard crashes three times
in a row, it resets the clock speeds to normal values. And
then you can go back into the BIOS, and re-adjust the
clock settings again.

Paul

Skybuck Flying[_7_]
June 14th 11, 03:05 AM
"Paul" wrote in message ...

Skybuck Flying wrote:

>
> Good idea, I booted the pc into the bios, and there is an option called:
>
> Boot Failure Guard [enabled]
> Boot Failure Guard Count [3]
>
> So this looks suspicious and might be the reason why it didn’t boot
> without a monitor attached.
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck.

"
Boot Failure Guard is there to help people who overclock.

My previous Asrock board had that option. If you press the
reset button, three times in a row, with a two second delay
between presses, it tells the computer that some setting
is preventing a normal boot. Such an option saves the user
from having to "Clear CMOS" to regain control of the computer.
It is a handy feature.
"

So does this only work for the "reset switch"...

Because I also did "control-alt-delete" a few times because the "press F2 or
del to enter bios" message either didn't work for F2 or it went to fast to
press del ;)

Bye,
Skybuck.

Paul
June 14th 11, 03:18 AM
Skybuck Flying wrote:
>
>
> "Paul" wrote in message ...
>
> Skybuck Flying wrote:
>
>>
>> Good idea, I booted the pc into the bios, and there is an option called:
>>
>> Boot Failure Guard [enabled]
>> Boot Failure Guard Count [3]
>>
>> So this looks suspicious and might be the reason why it didn’t boot
>> without a monitor attached.
>>
>> Bye,
>> Skybuck.
>
> "
> Boot Failure Guard is there to help people who overclock.
>
> My previous Asrock board had that option. If you press the
> reset button, three times in a row, with a two second delay
> between presses, it tells the computer that some setting
> is preventing a normal boot. Such an option saves the user
> from having to "Clear CMOS" to regain control of the computer.
> It is a handy feature.
> "
>
> So does this only work for the "reset switch"...
>
> Because I also did "control-alt-delete" a few times because the "press
> F2 or del to enter bios" message either didn't work for F2 or it went to
> fast to press del ;)
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck.

The reset signal works well, because it is an abrupt condition
the BIOS is not expecting. And it is easier to interpret as a
crash condition.

Crashes seem to be tracked, by a flag the BIOS sets. The flag
is cleared, if some kind of "normal" shutdown is done. By using
the reset button, you're simulating an abrupt termination, just
like a real crash would achieve.

I've never seen a technical description of the details of
crash detection (like, where the flag value is stored).

Asus uses a similar technique to Asrock,
the difference being that Asus triggers after just one
occurrence. And the Asus recovery procedure is triggered
even when users aren't overclocking. The Asrock technique
of waiting for three events in a row (implying extreme
instability), is better, because it avoids nuisance
BIOS changes.

On my P4C800-E Deluxe from Asus, I've had to reload the
BIOS settings a few times, doe to triggering that thing.
Some BIOS designs now, are a bit more clever, as all
they reset is the memory clock rate and the FSB clock rate.
And they leave the other settings alone, so there is not
as much BIOS settings to reload. Some motherboards have
"profile storage", and with those, you can reload the BIOS
settings from storage. But the motherboards I've got,
if they recover from a crash in that way, I have to
reload all the settings manually.

Paul

Skybuck Flying[_7_]
June 14th 11, 03:24 AM
Yeah ok,

But this doesn't really answer my question.

"control-alt-delete" is probably considered a warm-reboot or warm-reset.

Does that also count for the counter ?

I guess I could try it out... but I am not gonna do that now...

Also I'll probably be using this setup for a while which works nicely so
there is no rush...

I was just wondering what could explain the kinda weird behaviour I saw...

I guess it could be weird electrical related things, but if not then it
would be nice to rule that out because it was a feature and not something
weird.

I still need to call technician to replace power wall socket... perhaps I
will do that soon... we had many holidays over here and I was busy too with
lots of stuff ;)

Also currently one blue led is not shining which is kinda weird... but oh
well ;)

Bye,
Skybuck.

Paul
June 14th 11, 03:32 AM
Skybuck Flying wrote:
> Yeah ok,
>
> But this doesn't really answer my question.
>
> "control-alt-delete" is probably considered a warm-reboot or warm-reset.
>
> Does that also count for the counter ?
>
> I guess I could try it out... but I am not gonna do that now...
>
> Also I'll probably be using this setup for a while which works nicely so
> there is no rush...
>
> I was just wondering what could explain the kinda weird behaviour I saw...
>
> I guess it could be weird electrical related things, but if not then it
> would be nice to rule that out because it was a feature and not
> something weird.
>
> I still need to call technician to replace power wall socket... perhaps
> I will do that soon... we had many holidays over here and I was busy too
> with lots of stuff ;)
>
> Also currently one blue led is not shining which is kinda weird... but
> oh well ;)
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck.

When you press the reset button, the BIOS has no time to clear the flag,
so the next time the BIOS starts, it finds the crash flag is still set.
That's the difference between reset and control-alt-delete. The control-alt-delete
is detected by BIOS code, and the BIOS does a "controlled" restart, offering
an opportunity to clear the flag before the next POST sequence starts.

Paul