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Darren Garrison
December 3rd 08, 01:46 AM
I'm still running an ancient Athlon MP:

http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/currentcpu.jpg

I want to upgrade. I'm thinking about a Phenom 9100e, because I want the low
wattage (65 watt vs. 125 watt). But that processor runs at only 1.8 GHz core,
which is the same clock speed as my Athlon MP.

My question is this-- for applications that only make use only a single core,
would a Phenom core give much better performance than an Athlon Thunderbird core
at the same clock frequency? (I do use some applications, such as Maya, that
can benifit well from 4 cores, but I'm wondering about simpler, single-core
apps).

Richard P
December 3rd 08, 03:40 AM
Thye Phenom iwth a application that uses only one core will be as fast if
not faster than your old Athlon MP.
"Darren Garrison" > wrote in message
...
> I'm still running an ancient Athlon MP:
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/currentcpu.jpg
>
> I want to upgrade. I'm thinking about a Phenom 9100e, because I want the
> low
> wattage (65 watt vs. 125 watt). But that processor runs at only 1.8 GHz
> core,
> which is the same clock speed as my Athlon MP.
>
> My question is this-- for applications that only make use only a single
> core,
> would a Phenom core give much better performance than an Athlon
> Thunderbird core
> at the same clock frequency? (I do use some applications, such as Maya,
> that
> can benifit well from 4 cores, but I'm wondering about simpler,
> single-core
> apps).

Ed Light
December 3rd 08, 05:04 AM
About 30-40% faster.
--
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Wes Newell[_2_]
December 3rd 08, 09:33 AM
On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:46:47 -0500, Darren Garrison wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:46:47 -0500, Darren Garrison wrote:

> I'm still running an ancient Athlon MP:
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/currentcpu.jpg
>
> I want to upgrade. I'm thinking about a Phenom 9100e, because I want
> the low wattage (65 watt vs. 125 watt). But that processor runs at only
> 1.8 GHz core, which is the same clock speed as my Athlon MP.
>
According to your link, you've either changed the default multiplier to 11
and a FSB of 166, or you don't really have a 2200+ MP. Doesn't really
matter since you have a Tbred B core. Running it at only 1830MHz is a
waste of power. It should run at about 2200MHz easily. You can do this by
either increasing the multiplier to 13 (2166MHz)or 13.5 (2250MHz), or
raising the FSB to 200MHz if your board supports it. Either way would give
you about a 20% increase in cpu speed.

> My question is this-- for applications that only make use only a single
> core, would a Phenom core give much better performance than an Athlon
> Thunderbird core at the same clock frequency? (I do use some
> applications, such as Maya, that can benifit well from 4 cores, but I'm
> wondering about simpler, single-core apps).

I'm not sure if you'd get much benefit from a 1.8GHz single core phenom,
but you'd certainly see a great overall performance increase. You might
want to consider an X2 cpu. They are cheaper than dirt now and you can get
a higher speed X2 for next to nothing. Fry's just had a phenom capable
board with an X2 5600+ (65W, 2.9GHz) on sale for $65.99. They were out
when I sent my wife to get one, but she got a raincheck. It's just a spare
anyway. Now that would be a tremendous increase over your current cpu in
all aspects.

--
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Darren Garrison
December 3rd 08, 05:27 PM
On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 08:33:51 +0000 (UTC), Wes Newell >
wrote:

>According to your link, you've either changed the default multiplier to 11
>and a FSB of 166, or you don't really have a 2200+ MP. Doesn't really
>matter since you have a Tbred B core. Running it at only 1830MHz is a
>waste of power. It should run at about 2200MHz easily. You can do this by
>either increasing the multiplier to 13 (2166MHz)or 13.5 (2250MHz), or
>raising the FSB to 200MHz if your board supports it. Either way would give
>you about a 20% increase in cpu speed.

I've had some overclocking experience-- not extreme, but some. I had a Pentium
75 that I ran at 90 (I tried running at 100, but had sporadic crashes), and A
K6-2 350 that I ran at 400. So I tried adjusting the speed on this one when I
got it (on an Asus A7N8X Deluxe motherboard. I played with settings, off and
on, for days. But for some reason, the board would never let me use any
settings other than the automatic. Any overclocking attempt led me to not even
reaching the BIOS screen and having to reset the CMOS via a jumper on the
motherboard. This is what the processor actually runs at/as in the automatic
settings.

>
>I'm not sure if you'd get much benefit from a 1.8GHz single core phenom,
>but you'd certainly see a great overall performance increase. You might
>want to consider an X2 cpu. They are cheaper than dirt now and you can get
>a higher speed X2 for next to nothing. Fry's just had a phenom capable
>board with an X2 5600+ (65W, 2.9GHz) on sale for $65.99. They were out
>when I sent my wife to get one, but she got a raincheck. It's just a spare
>anyway. Now that would be a tremendous increase over your current cpu in
>all aspects.

I've been on too tight of a budget the past few years for my usually much more
agressive upgrade schedule, so what I've been looking at is the mobo/CPU/memory
combo deals available on pricewatch.com. The available deals are cheaper than
what I can get packaging all the components seperately. At first I was looking
at an Athlon X2 bundle for around $100 that comes with a mobo with an AGP slot
so I could continue using my current monitors (dual display, one CRT, one LCD).
But that mobo is an AM2, not an AM2+, so I'd be buing a dead upgrade path. My
next thought was to spend around $200 on a bundle with a Phenom bundle that
includes an AM2+ mobo with integrated ATI video that has both a VGA and DVI, run
the integrated video for now, and get a PCIe card later. But when I found a 65
watt Phenom 9100e quad-core for $80, that almost pushed me over the line, until
I discovered the catch with that low price-- that processor has the TLD bug.
Now, I'm trying to decide if the bug is obscure enough to live with for now, or
if I could expect to have problems with it.

Wes Newell[_2_]
December 3rd 08, 08:17 PM
On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:27:14 -0500, Darren Garrison wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:27:14 -0500, Darren Garrison wrote:

> I've had some overclocking experience-- not extreme, but some. I had a
> Pentium 75 that I ran at 90 (I tried running at 100, but had sporadic
> crashes), and A K6-2 350 that I ran at 400. So I tried adjusting the
> speed on this one when I got it (on an Asus A7N8X Deluxe motherboard. I
> played with settings, off and on, for days. But for some reason, the
> board would never let me use any settings other than the automatic. Any
> overclocking attempt led me to not even reaching the BIOS screen and
> having to reset the CMOS via a jumper on the motherboard. This is what
> the processor actually runs at/as in the automatic settings.
>
Somethings not right. All MP cpu's use a default 133MHz FSB. A 2200+ MP
would have a default FSB of 133 and a 13.5 multiplier. You need to verify
the cpu model you have by the part number on the cpu itself. The MB
reports the model by the speed for K7 cpu's. The actual model can be
something totally different. A 2100+ XP will report as a 2700+ if you
raise the default FSB to 166.

--
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Darren Garrison
December 3rd 08, 08:43 PM
On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 19:17:11 +0000 (UTC), Wes Newell >
wrote:

>Somethings not right. All MP cpu's use a default 133MHz FSB. A 2200+ MP
>would have a default FSB of 133 and a 13.5 multiplier. You need to verify
>the cpu model you have by the part number on the cpu itself. The MB
>reports the model by the speed for K7 cpu's. The actual model can be
>something totally different. A 2100+ XP will report as a 2700+ if you
>raise the default FSB to 166.

Okay, I DID have an Athlon XP 2600+ originally on the board. After about 2-3
years, it died. Not being able to get on-line to look for a deal, I had to look
around locally for a replacement CPU, but socket 462 was already obsolete then,
and the best I could find was a 1 GHz Sempron. Then, a few months after that, I
found a good deal at www.geeks.com. I didn't remember well which processor it
was, I was just going by what CPUZ showed it to be. But I've just checked my
Geeks account, and what I ordered was this:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=SDA2600DUT3D-N

Anyway, I decided my best bet performance-wise was to go with your advice and go
for a higher-GHz value X2 instead of 1.8 GHz Phenom. I ordered this mobo
(because it has an AGP slot):

http://3btech.net/msik9alsoam2.html

And a 45w X2 5050e to run on it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103298

Plus 2 gigs of 800 MHz DDR2 (I currently have 1 GB of PC2700) and some Arctic
Silver 5. Should give me a much better system speed.

Wes Newell[_2_]
December 4th 08, 07:17 AM
On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:43:19 -0500, Darren Garrison wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:43:19 -0500, Darren Garrison wrote:

> > wrote:
>
>>Somethings not right. All MP cpu's use a default 133MHz FSB. A 2200+ MP
>
> Okay, I DID have an Athlon XP 2600+ originally on the board. After
> about 2-3 years, it died. Not being able to get on-line to look for a
> deal, I had to look around locally for a replacement CPU, but socket 462
> was already obsolete then, and the best I could find was a 1 GHz
> Sempron. Then, a few months after that, I found a good deal at
> www.geeks.com. I didn't remember well which processor it was, I was
> just going by what CPUZ showed it to be. But I've just checked my Geeks
> account, and what I ordered was this:
>
> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=SDA2600DUT3D-N
>
Now that makes sense.

> Anyway, I decided my best bet performance-wise was to go with your
> advice and go for a higher-GHz value X2 instead of 1.8 GHz Phenom. I
> ordered this mobo (because it has an AGP slot):
>
> http://3btech.net/msik9alsoam2.html
>
Ouch. I don't like your choice of MB's, It's not AM2+, only AM2, and an
old VIA chipset. Sata I, etc,etc. You can get an AM2+ MB with onboard
graphics for not much more if any more depending on how good a shopper you
are. No more than $20 more. AM2+ would give you an upgrade path to Phenom
if you ever wanted it. I'd look for a MB with Nvidia 7050PV or 8200
chipset. And while it'll be PCIe, well the onboard video should be
adequate.

> And a 45w X2 5050e to run on it:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103298
>
> Plus 2 gigs of 800 MHz DDR2 (I currently have 1 GB of PC2700) and some
> Arctic Silver 5. Should give me a much better system speed.

Rest sounds good, although I use wheel bearing grease on all my cpu's.
It's over 30 years old and still performs as good as anything else.:-)

--
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Miles Bader[_2_]
December 4th 08, 07:25 AM
Wes Newell > writes:
>> Plus 2 gigs of 800 MHz DDR2 (I currently have 1 GB of PC2700) and some
>> Arctic Silver 5. Should give me a much better system speed.
>
> Rest sounds good, although I use wheel bearing grease on all my cpu's.
> It's over 30 years old and still performs as good as anything else.:-)

Just think how delicious your system would smell if you used bacon
grease!

-Miles

--
..Numeric stability is probably not all that important when you're guessing.

Darren Garrison
December 4th 08, 07:57 AM
On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 06:17:54 +0000 (UTC), Wes Newell >
wrote:

>Ouch. I don't like your choice of MB's, It's not AM2+, only AM2, and an
>old VIA chipset. Sata I, etc,etc. You can get an AM2+ MB with onboard
>graphics for not much more if any more depending on how good a shopper you
>are. No more than $20 more. AM2+ would give you an upgrade path to Phenom

I concidered that-- the other mobo I was considering was this:

http://3btech.net/bia7m2qucore.html

But I decided that I didn't want the shared video memory. Plus, by the time I
upgrade again, AM3 (or beyond) will be out, so the AM2+ mobo would still be last
generation at that time.

Wes Newell[_2_]
December 4th 08, 09:46 AM
On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:57:44 -0500, Darren Garrison wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 06:17:54 +0000 (UTC), Wes Newell
> > wrote:
>
>>Ouch. I don't like your choice of MB's, It's not AM2+, only AM2, and an
>>old VIA chipset. Sata I, etc,etc. You can get an AM2+ MB with onboard
>>graphics for not much more if any more depending on how good a shopper
>>you are. No more than $20 more. AM2+ would give you an upgrade path to
>>Phenom
>
> I concidered that-- the other mobo I was considering was this:
>
> http://3btech.net/bia7m2qucore.html
>
> But I decided that I didn't want the shared video memory. Plus, by the
> time I upgrade again, AM3 (or beyond) will be out, so the AM2+ mobo
> would still be last generation at that time.

That's almost identical to this combo I got a rain check on.

http://shopping.dallasnews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=2519&adid=7274900&subid=24496391



--
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Darren Garrison
December 9th 08, 03:24 AM
On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 06:17:54 +0000 (UTC), Wes Newell >
wrote:

>> http://3btech.net/msik9alsoam2.html
>>
>Ouch. I don't like your choice of MB's, It's not AM2+, only AM2, and an
>old VIA chipset. Sata I, etc,etc. You can get an AM2+ MB with onboard
>graphics for not much more if any more depending on how good a shopper you
>are. No more than $20 more. AM2+ would give you an upgrade path to Phenom
>if you ever wanted it. I'd look for a MB with Nvidia 7050PV or 8200
>chipset. And while it'll be PCIe, well the onboard video should be
>adequate.
>
>> And a 45w X2 5050e to run on it:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103298
>>



Okay, my mobo/CPU/memory arrive today. I put the CPU, heatsink and fan on the
new board and put in the DIMM. I take the old mobo out of the case, put in the
new one, spend a long time making sure that I have all the connectors were
plugged in correctly. Put in the AGP card. Make sure all the basics are set
up. Boot. Drives spin up. Fans spin up. Nothing else happens-- no signal to
the monitors. Then I think that maybe the on-board video is on by default, so I
plug the monitor into the mobo's on-board video. Still no monitor, no post.
Speaker connection is set up, but no error beeps of any kind. Next idea-- maybe
the 2 GB DIMM is too big for the old mobo to recognize-- I switch the system
off, pull the DIMM, hoping to hear an error beep and get the BIOS to come up
with a memory error. Nothing. I reset the CMOS with the jumper. Still
nothing. So the next step was to pull the CPU, and try booting-- the old Asus
board at least gave a "CPU not present" message when no CPU is installed
(talking BIOS, not a beeping one). But still nothing, no error beeps, no POST,
no signal to the monitor. I had to pull the motherboard and reinstall my old
one.

So, I'm thinking that the motheboard is bad, or incapable of recognizing the
5050e (a retail boxed one, not OEM) and not the CPU itself bad. I'm ready to
order a new, better mobo and send back, but first, I was hoping for second (or
third) opinions on my "bad/old" mobo diagnosis and not "bad CPU".

Ed Light
December 9th 08, 05:16 AM
You can look up the board on its web site and see if that cpu is
included in the supported cpu list. Since it's a very recent one and the
chipset is so ancient, it probably isn't.
--
Ed Light

Better World News TV Channel:
http://realnews.com

Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org
http://antiwar.com

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http://ivaw.org
http://couragetoresist.org

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

Wes Newell[_2_]
December 9th 08, 09:01 AM
n Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:24:36 -0500, Darren Garrison wrote:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:24:36 -0500, Darren Garrison wrote:

> So, I'm thinking that the motheboard is bad, or incapable of recognizing
> the 5050e (a retail boxed one, not OEM) and not the CPU itself bad. I'm
> ready to order a new, better mobo and send back, but first, I was hoping
> for second (or third) opinions on my "bad/old" mobo diagnosis and not
> "bad CPU".

According to MSI, the K9MM-v Does not support the cpu you got. And I don't
see a bios upgrade for it. Either time for another MB, or a supported cpu
for that one. They don't even list that cpu for this board. Might contact
them and see if they are going to release a bios for it, but you would
still have to get it and find some way to flash it. Maybe borrow an older
A64 from someone.


http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=prodcpusupport&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=1104#menu

BTW, there's no reason other than bios, that it won't support it.

--
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Rodney Pont[_3_]
December 9th 08, 10:48 AM
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:01:03 +0000 (UTC), Wes Newell wrote:

>According to MSI, the K9MM-v Does not support the cpu you got. And I don't
>see a bios upgrade for it. Either time for another MB, or a supported cpu
>for that one. They don't even list that cpu for this board. Might contact
>them and see if they are going to release a bios for it, but you would
>still have to get it and find some way to flash it. Maybe borrow an older
>A64 from someone.
>
>
>http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=prodcpusupport&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=1104#menu
>
>BTW, there's no reason other than bios, that it won't support it.

I can't see that any of the 125W CPUs are supported so maybe the
motherboard just can't supply the current needed.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

Darren Garrison
December 9th 08, 01:32 PM
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:13:42 -0800, Bill > wrote:

>
> Just curious, is there a particular reason why your looking at these
>trailing technology boards?

Yeah, went from working to be a stay-at-home caregiver for an older relative.
Budget is now very restricted. If I was working now, I'd already have the best
4-core system available. Now, I have to think 3 times before I drop $150 bucks
on what I'm getting now.

Darren Garrison
December 9th 08, 01:46 PM
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 09:48:47 +0000 (GMT), "Rodney Pont"
> wrote:

>
>I can't see that any of the 125W CPUs are supported so maybe the
>motherboard just can't supply the current needed.

The 5050e that I have is a 45 watt model, a low-power version of the 5000, which
is supposed to be supported. I assumed (mistakenly) that the CPU would tell the
mobo what it was and what it needed.

Darren Garrison
December 9th 08, 01:50 PM
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:01:03 +0000 (UTC), Wes Newell >
wrote:

>
>BTW, there's no reason other than bios, that it won't support it.

That's what I was thinking, I just wanted a second opinion. Anyway, I've
already requested an RMA for that board and ordered this one
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/mb/cpu_support.php?S_ID=370 which does list
the 5050.

Rodney Pont[_3_]
December 9th 08, 02:13 PM
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 07:46:02 -0500, Darren Garrison wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 09:48:47 +0000 (GMT), "Rodney Pont"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>I can't see that any of the 125W CPUs are supported so maybe the
>>motherboard just can't supply the current needed.
>
>The 5050e that I have is a 45 watt model, a low-power version of the 5000, which
>is supposed to be supported. I assumed (mistakenly) that the CPU would tell the
>mobo what it was and what it needed.

Fishcakes!! I'm getting threads mixed up, maybe even groups. I thought
this was about the 6400+, sorry I'll try and keep up in future :-)

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

Darren Garrison
December 11th 08, 11:46 PM
Well, for anyone curious who helped me with (or at least looked at) the thread
on my upgrade questions and problems, it is done. I had devised a few
benchmarks to compare the two setups using some of my typical applications.

Benchmarks--

ConvertXtoDVD 3.3 converting 5 minute Divx to DVD:

old system AthlonXP 1.8 GHz-- 2 min, 56 sec, or 1.68x realtime
new system AthlonX2 2.6 GHz-- 0 min, 58 sec, or 5.11x realtime

Virtualdub convert soft subs to hard subs on 5 minute Divx, 1-pass quality
based, q4:

old system AthlonXP 1.8 GHz-- 2 min, 35 sec
new system AthlonX2 2.6 GHz-- 1 min, 01 sec

So around a 300% increase for the DVD test and around 250% for the Divx test.