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View Full Version : Where to find a heatsink fan for NVidia FX 5200?


James[_6_]
October 7th 08, 08:53 PM
I have an NVidia GeForce FX 5200 card and the fan is having issues,
making intermittent noise. I took it out and put a 1/2 drop of 10W-40
motor oil on the end of the shaft that was exposed when I removed the
decal on the bottom which has gotten rid of the noise for now, but I
assume this is only going to be a temporary fix. Where can I find just
the fan for an older card like this?

So far haven't found anything by searching online. Striking out on
ebay.

Thanks.

Robert Miles
October 7th 08, 09:09 PM
"James" > wrote in message
...
>I have an NVidia GeForce FX 5200 card and the fan is having issues,
> making intermittent noise. I took it out and put a 1/2 drop of 10W-40
> motor oil on the end of the shaft that was exposed when I removed the
> decal on the bottom which has gotten rid of the noise for now, but I
> assume this is only going to be a temporary fix. Where can I find just
> the fan for an older card like this?
>
> So far haven't found anything by searching online. Striking out on
> ebay.
>
> Thanks.
..
Here are a few sites I found relevant to cooling issues. I haven't
checked if either of them are relevant to that card.

http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=91

http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Andy
October 7th 08, 11:37 PM
This should work; check the mounting dimensions.
RED Mini UFO Universal VGA Video Card Cooler LED Fan
<http://cgi.ebay.com/RED-Mini-UFO-Universal-VGA-Video-Card-Cooler-LED-Fan_W0QQitemZ380055806967QQihZ025QQcategoryZ80151Q QtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem>
<http://www.evercool.com.tw/products/vc_ri.htm>

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:53:39 -0700 (PDT), James >
wrote:

>I have an NVidia GeForce FX 5200 card and the fan is having issues,
>making intermittent noise. I took it out and put a 1/2 drop of 10W-40
>motor oil on the end of the shaft that was exposed when I removed the
>decal on the bottom which has gotten rid of the noise for now, but I
>assume this is only going to be a temporary fix. Where can I find just
>the fan for an older card like this?
>
>So far haven't found anything by searching online. Striking out on
>ebay.
>
>Thanks.

kony
October 8th 08, 03:59 AM
On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:53:39 -0700 (PDT), James
> wrote:

>I have an NVidia GeForce FX 5200 card and the fan is having issues,
>making intermittent noise. I took it out and put a 1/2 drop of 10W-40
>motor oil on the end of the shaft that was exposed when I removed the
>decal on the bottom which has gotten rid of the noise for now, but I
>assume this is only going to be a temporary fix. Where can I find just
>the fan for an older card like this?
>
>So far haven't found anything by searching online. Striking out on
>ebay.
>
>Thanks.

Depending on how worn the fan bearing was, how long it ran
like that, odds are fair that it may run for a long time
after relubed, though ideally you would want to use a higher
viscosity oil than 10W-30 as the thicker it is the thicker
the film strength, reducing eliptical shaft wobble and
increasing the volume of oil that stays in the bearingway.

Sometimes you can replace only the fan, depending on the
original 'sink design and whether it is necessary for a
replacement fan to sit down inside the 'sink cavity. If the
adjacent slot-space is empty it won't matter much whether
the fan sits down inside the 'sink body or sits above
(though above would require longer screws).

I'm not sure how you struck out on ebay. Search there for
"FX5200 heatsink", and checkmark the "include Title and
Description" box.
http://desc.shop.ebay.com/items/__FX5200-heatsink_W0QQLHQ5fTitleDescZ1QQ_nkwZFX5200Q20heats inkQQQ5ftrkparmsZ72Q253A1156Q257C39Q253A1Q257C66Q2 53A2Q257C65Q253A12QQ_dmptZPCCQ5fVideoQ5fTVQ5fCards QQ_fromfsbZQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQ_sopZ15QQ_s cZ1

James[_6_]
October 8th 08, 04:33 AM
On Oct 7, 10:59*pm, kony > wrote:

> I'm not sure how you struck out on ebay. *Search there for
> "FX5200 heatsink", and checkmark the "include Title and
> Description" box.http://desc.shop.ebay.com/items/__FX5200-heatsink_W0QQLHQ5fTitleDescZ...


I struck out looking for just a fan. Nothing wrong with the heatsink.
I imagine the solid chunk of aluminum will last until the sun burns
out.

Benjamin Gawert
October 8th 08, 06:41 AM
* James:
> I have an NVidia GeForce FX 5200 card and the fan is having issues,
> making intermittent noise. I took it out and put a 1/2 drop of 10W-40
> motor oil on the end of the shaft that was exposed when I removed the
> decal on the bottom which has gotten rid of the noise for now, but I
> assume this is only going to be a temporary fix. Where can I find just
> the fan for an older card like this?

Difficult, and if you find a fan it probably costs more than this 5+
year old low end card is worth.

Besides that, the Geforce FX5200 can be passive cooled easily (and
that's what has been done on most cards) as it doesn't produce that much
heat. Some manufacturers gave their FX5200 cards a fan not because of
the heat but because it looks more expensive or powerful. Usually, if
the fan dies, just remove it, the average heat sink used on these cards
should provide enough cooling for the GPU.

Benjamin

kony
October 8th 08, 06:53 AM
On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:41:22 +0100, Benjamin Gawert
> wrote:

>* James:
>> I have an NVidia GeForce FX 5200 card and the fan is having issues,
>> making intermittent noise. I took it out and put a 1/2 drop of 10W-40
>> motor oil on the end of the shaft that was exposed when I removed the
>> decal on the bottom which has gotten rid of the noise for now, but I
>> assume this is only going to be a temporary fix. Where can I find just
>> the fan for an older card like this?
>
>Difficult, and if you find a fan it probably costs more than this 5+
>year old low end card is worth.
>
>Besides that, the Geforce FX5200 can be passive cooled easily (and
>that's what has been done on most cards) as it doesn't produce that much
>heat. Some manufacturers gave their FX5200 cards a fan not because of
>the heat but because it looks more expensive or powerful. Usually, if
>the fan dies, just remove it, the average heat sink used on these cards
>should provide enough cooling for the GPU.
>
>Benjamin


That is not good advice. When such a low powered card as
these uses a fanned heatsink, to cut costs they use the bare
minimum fanned heatsink they can to cut costs.

Because of this, IF they had used an alternative, larger
passive heatsink it would work ok, or if they use a much
smaller fanned sink, also ok, but using the much smaller
formerly fanned 'sink without that fan is a big risk.

kony
October 8th 08, 07:10 AM
On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:33:14 -0700 (PDT), James
> wrote:

>On Oct 7, 10:59*pm, kony > wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure how you struck out on ebay. *Search there for
>> "FX5200 heatsink", and checkmark the "include Title and
>> Description" box.http://desc.shop.ebay.com/items/__FX5200-heatsink_W0QQLHQ5fTitleDescZ...
>
>
>I struck out looking for just a fan. Nothing wrong with the heatsink.
>I imagine the solid chunk of aluminum will last until the sun burns
>out.


The problem with that is that these are often proprietary
parts, so given random internet pricing, it can be more
expensive to try and source an exact replacement fan than
buying an entire heatsink with fan included.

There are other alternatives of course. Someone with enough
appropriate supplies could DIY. For example if the space
allows, you could take some other heatsink at least large
enough and find a way to mount it. If the heatsink weight
isn't excessive you could mount it with thermally conductive
epoxy, or if it is of too high a weight for that and you had
a certain level of electrical tools you could modify
something to work.

For example, when I wanted to replace the heatsink on a
7600GT video card, I took an old Tualatin Celeron heatsink,
used a hacksaw to reduce the height enough to fit in the
amount of space available, used a drill press to drill holes
in the appropriate areas when holding it up against the
video card so the existing heatsink holes could be used to
mark the spacing, then improvised a fan that would fit it.
If I'd had no fan that would fit I could always epoxy a nut
or stud in, or tap threads for a standard bolt thread.
Often this solution will require changing the fan connector,
or changing the video card mating socket, or grafting and/or
soldering wires. The best solution depends a lot on what
means you have available. If you have no means to fabricate
or no wish to do it now that the video card is of low value,
the most obvious alternative is to choose a generic full
framed fan with the same screw hole diameter of the original
and just use larger screws, then you don't have to search
for an FX5200 specific fan, only a fan of the same
dimensions and thickness within the allowable space
remaining.

http://69.36.166.207/usr_1034/video/7600gt.jpg

Benjamin Gawert
October 8th 08, 05:30 PM
* kony:

> That is not good advice. When such a low powered card as
> these uses a fanned heatsink, to cut costs they use the bare
> minimum fanned heatsink they can to cut costs.
>
> Because of this, IF they had used an alternative, larger
> passive heatsink it would work ok, or if they use a much
> smaller fanned sink, also ok, but using the much smaller
> formerly fanned 'sink without that fan is a big risk.

No, it's not. I have several Geforce FX5200 cards here which are stock
passively cooled with very small heatsinks. This GPU has very simple
cooling requirements and should work flawlessly without fan if there is
at least some minimal airflow in the computer.

So in reality the "big risk" you are talking about means a very little
chance to overheat a 5+ year old low end card which has no real value
any more, for which the price of the fan very likely will be higher than
what a similar or better card can be bought for on the used market, and
which can be replaced with something better and faster for a few bucks
today.

Benjamin

rms[_2_]
October 8th 08, 05:52 PM
> Depending on how worn the fan bearing was, how long it ran
> like that, odds are fair that it may run for a long time
> after relubed

This part is certainly true. I've relubed noisy fans with Inox spray
lube, and they are going strong and silent two years later.

> though ideally you would want to use a higher
> viscosity oil than 10W-30 as the thicker it is the thicker
> the film strength

This is so wrong. Get Inox spray lube, hardware stores will have it, or
order online. It's the best computer fan lube, bar none.

rms

Phil Weldon[_2_]
October 8th 08, 06:55 PM
'Benjamin Gawert' wrote, in part:
> This GPU has very simple cooling requirements and should work flawlessly
> without fan if there is at least some minimal airflow in the computer.
_____

Yes.

And the cost of any 'special' lubricant purchased would also be higher than
the cost of an equivalent used card. This is especially true if you figure
the cost : benefit ratio; two more months of fan life with 'special'
lubricant : indefinite life without a fan.

Phil Weldon

"Benjamin Gawert" > wrote in message
...
>* kony:
>
>> That is not good advice. When such a low powered card as
>> these uses a fanned heatsink, to cut costs they use the bare
>> minimum fanned heatsink they can to cut costs.
>>
>> Because of this, IF they had used an alternative, larger
>> passive heatsink it would work ok, or if they use a much
>> smaller fanned sink, also ok, but using the much smaller
>> formerly fanned 'sink without that fan is a big risk.
>
> No, it's not. I have several Geforce FX5200 cards here which are stock
> passively cooled with very small heatsinks. This GPU has very simple
> cooling requirements and should work flawlessly without fan if there is at
> least some minimal airflow in the computer.
>
> So in reality the "big risk" you are talking about means a very little
> chance to overheat a 5+ year old low end card which has no real value any
> more, for which the price of the fan very likely will be higher than what
> a similar or better card can be bought for on the used market, and which
> can be replaced with something better and faster for a few bucks today.
>
> Benjamin

Augustus[_3_]
October 8th 08, 11:55 PM
>
> That is not good advice. When such a low powered card as
> these uses a fanned heatsink, to cut costs they use the bare
> minimum fanned heatsink they can to cut costs.
>
> Because of this, IF they had used an alternative, larger
> passive heatsink it would work ok, or if they use a much
> smaller fanned sink, also ok, but using the much smaller
> formerly fanned 'sink without that fan is a big risk.

It's very good advice....I've seen cards like the FX5200 usually perform
just fine with the fan removed and leaving the existing h/s assembly on.
Case ventilation is usually adequate for this. If it's an FX5200 Ultra it
might be an issue but these are very rare.

Paul
October 9th 08, 12:23 AM
Augustus wrote:
>> That is not good advice. When such a low powered card as
>> these uses a fanned heatsink, to cut costs they use the bare
>> minimum fanned heatsink they can to cut costs.
>>
>> Because of this, IF they had used an alternative, larger
>> passive heatsink it would work ok, or if they use a much
>> smaller fanned sink, also ok, but using the much smaller
>> formerly fanned 'sink without that fan is a big risk.
>
> It's very good advice....I've seen cards like the FX5200 usually perform
> just fine with the fan removed and leaving the existing h/s assembly on.
> Case ventilation is usually adequate for this. If it's an FX5200 Ultra it
> might be an issue but these are very rare.
>

My batting average is 50:50.

I purchased two FX5200 AGP cards. Each had a passive heatsink with
no provision for a fan. They were different brands, but the heatsink
is roughly the same size (heatsink is larger than the one used with
an integrated fan).

1) One card, you could game with it all day long without a problem.
It didn't need anything more than the normal low level of air
movement through the case.

2) The second card couldn't game for very long at all. Give it 5 minutes or so.
I added an 80mm case fan next to the card, and now that card is fine.
As a consequence of that, both computers now have a fan next to the
card. You can use a wooden stick or a piece of metal, and hold it in
place with a couple PCI slot cover screws - the fan is held to that with
nylon ties.

For me, it would be a case of "your mileage may vary". Both of those
cards are the cheesy 64-bit memory subsystem version.

Paul

kony
October 9th 08, 03:48 AM
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:52:14 -0600, "rms"
> wrote:

>> Depending on how worn the fan bearing was, how long it ran
>> like that, odds are fair that it may run for a long time
>> after relubed
>
> This part is certainly true. I've relubed noisy fans with Inox spray
>lube, and they are going strong and silent two years later.
>
>> though ideally you would want to use a higher
>> viscosity oil than 10W-30 as the thicker it is the thicker
>> the film strength
>
> This is so wrong. Get Inox spray lube, hardware stores will have it, or
>order online. It's the best computer fan lube, bar none.
>
>rms
>

False and I've already mentioned why. Just about any lube
will allow a fan to start working well again for awhile,
even salt-free butter would, but the key is to have the
right viscosity. Spray can or not, special additives or not
(which BTW are unnecessary), the key factor in lube
longevity in a partially worn fan is that the vicosity is
not so high as to not freely flow but not so low as to allow
gravity to cause it to run out of the bearing (video card
fans usually being horizontally situated).

If you don't have the right viscosity you end up relubing
more often, which is fine if one is willing to do it because
the lube they had on hand was (handy), but plain old motor
oil of the right viscosity beats any special spray.

Further, if a fan has one ball and one sleeve bearing it is
important not to use spray lubes because the carrier in the
spray lube results in the oil being deposited in the bearing
upsetting the grease viscosity it depended on for bearing
tolerance and low noise.

kony
October 9th 08, 03:53 AM
On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:30:12 +0100, Benjamin Gawert
> wrote:

>* kony:
>
>> That is not good advice. When such a low powered card as
>> these uses a fanned heatsink, to cut costs they use the bare
>> minimum fanned heatsink they can to cut costs.
>>
>> Because of this, IF they had used an alternative, larger
>> passive heatsink it would work ok, or if they use a much
>> smaller fanned sink, also ok, but using the much smaller
>> formerly fanned 'sink without that fan is a big risk.
>
>No, it's not. I have several Geforce FX5200 cards here which are stock
>passively cooled with very small heatsinks. This GPU has very simple
>cooling requirements and should work flawlessly without fan if there is
>at least some minimal airflow in the computer.
>
>So in reality the "big risk" you are talking about means a very little
>chance to overheat a 5+ year old low end card which has no real value
>any more, for which the price of the fan very likely will be higher than
>what a similar or better card can be bought for on the used market, and
>which can be replaced with something better and faster for a few bucks
>today.
>
>Benjamin

Plenty of people have their low end, low powered card die
when they kept running the system without realizing the fan
seized up.

Some small heatsinks are better than others, some cases and
room environments are warmer than others. It is not
reasonable to use only a stock cooler selected for a
specific card that uses a fan, without that fan installed.

IF the card isn't used for anything 3D it may run at lower
clockspeed and voltage, if that is the case it would be
easier to cool, but still a big risk as even some
screensavers cause 3D mode.

Big risk isn't just about loss of a low value card, it's
about replacement cost and system downtime, big risk is a
relative term since we are talking about a video card not an
atom bomb. The risk to that video card is a big one without
the fan it was meant to have on the original 'sink and
that's why they didn't just save 20 cents by doing without
the fan or why they spend more for a larger heatsink when
it's a passive heatsink.

kony
October 9th 08, 03:57 AM
On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:55:43 GMT, "Augustus"
> wrote:

>
>>
>> That is not good advice. When such a low powered card as
>> these uses a fanned heatsink, to cut costs they use the bare
>> minimum fanned heatsink they can to cut costs.
>>
>> Because of this, IF they had used an alternative, larger
>> passive heatsink it would work ok, or if they use a much
>> smaller fanned sink, also ok, but using the much smaller
>> formerly fanned 'sink without that fan is a big risk.
>
>It's very good advice....I've seen cards like the FX5200 usually perform
>just fine with the fan removed and leaving the existing h/s assembly on.
>Case ventilation is usually adequate for this. If it's an FX5200 Ultra it
>might be an issue but these are very rare.
>

Yes, if all your ducks are in a row it is possible,
especially it would require "adequate" (which is an
arbitrary term since the airflow level which is adequate for
this is higher than the normal adequate airflow level would
otherwise be). It is also possible the card overheats,
locks up the system, fails completely... not just after
having ran it for a few days, the heat buildup stresses it
longer term. It's more likely if someone plays games than
not, but still a risk either way.

I get dead computer gear all the time because of fan
failures. It's sound advice to have a fan on a card which
the manufacturer fitted with a fan, when using the original
heatsink still.

If the card has temperature monitoring that is one way the
OP might check on what the resulting temp is.

kony
October 9th 08, 04:30 AM
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:52:14 -0600, "rms"
> wrote:

>> Depending on how worn the fan bearing was, how long it ran
>> like that, odds are fair that it may run for a long time
>> after relubed
>
> This part is certainly true. I've relubed noisy fans with Inox spray
>lube, and they are going strong and silent two years later.
>


Ok, and using the right lube I've had some run over 10
years, others thrown away with retired parts years later so
I'd have no idea when they might've failed in the future.
Tiny, small diameter and small thickness horizontally
mounted sleeve bearing video card and chipset fans are among
the hardest to keep working longer term, that is why the
choice of lube becomes more important than with other fans
in a PC. Fortunately the chipset fans are seldom horizontal
unless the case is a desktop instead of tower type, but
unless the case is a desktop instead of tower the video card
fan is almost always horizontal which is a potential
problem.

ASTM D445 weight for Inox is 10/2.5 (40C/100C)
ASTM D445 weight for 10W30 motor oil ~ 73/11.
ASTM D445 weight for 20W50 motor oil ~158/19


Plain old 20W50 motor oil is still too thin for the best
result but many times better than Inox. Recognize that
viscosity is the most important factor in a fan. The
tolerances in a worn fan (to the point of needing relubed)
are greater than in an automobile and even an automobile
needs more viscous oil than 10/2.5. The oil is most
effective when it is displacing part of the empty area in
the bearing and when the higher film strength keeps the fan
shaft from an eliptical pattern (which is the shape a
bearing wears towards). If the shaft is not kept from an
elliptical pattern this forces more lube out the more
elliptical it becomes.

Ed Medlin[_4_]
October 9th 08, 02:19 PM
"Augustus" > wrote in message
news:PTaHk.480$%%[email protected]
>
>>
>> That is not good advice. When such a low powered card as
>> these uses a fanned heatsink, to cut costs they use the bare
>> minimum fanned heatsink they can to cut costs.
>>
>> Because of this, IF they had used an alternative, larger
>> passive heatsink it would work ok, or if they use a much
>> smaller fanned sink, also ok, but using the much smaller
>> formerly fanned 'sink without that fan is a big risk.
>
> It's very good advice....I've seen cards like the FX5200 usually perform
> just fine with the fan removed and leaving the existing h/s assembly on.
> Case ventilation is usually adequate for this. If it's an FX5200 Ultra it
> might be an issue but these are very rare.
>
Mounting a quiet fan blowing over the HS of the card would eliminate the
problem. I have mounted fans in trouble areas many times and tie wraps work
great for mounting a fan about anywhere you might need a bit more airflow.


Ed

Benjamin Gawert
October 9th 08, 06:51 PM
* kony:

> It is also possible the card overheats,
> locks up the system, fails completely... not just after
> having ran it for a few days, the heat buildup stresses it
> longer term.

Even when the chances are low, of course it can be possible. So what?
Having wasted a card that has no remaining value and where better
replacement can be had probably for less than what a new fan would have
cost?

> It's more likely if someone plays games than
> not, but still a risk either way.

Well, if someone plays games that really cause a raise of GPU
temperature then overheating will definitely be the least problem he has.

> I get dead computer gear all the time because of fan
> failures. It's sound advice to have a fan on a card which
> the manufacturer fitted with a fan, when using the original
> heatsink still.

Yeah, generally. But we are not talking generally, it's about a very
specific situation. It's amazing how this is overlooked again and again
in this thread.

Benjamin

Benjamin Gawert
October 9th 08, 06:58 PM
* kony:

> IF the card isn't used for anything 3D it may run at lower
> clockspeed and voltage,

No, it doesn't.

> if that is the case it would be
> easier to cool, but still a big risk as even some
> screensavers cause 3D mode.

Right. But this doesn't change a thing.

> Big risk isn't just about loss of a low value card, it's
> about replacement cost and system downtime

Nonsense. If downtime would be an issue the OP probably had already
bought a replacement.

> , big risk is a
> relative term since we are talking about a video card not an
> atom bomb. The risk to that video card is a big one without
> the fan it was meant to have on the original 'sink and
> that's why they didn't just save 20 cents by doing without
> the fan or why they spend more for a larger heatsink when
> it's a passive heatsink.

Well, maybe you should look at the specific situation, which is what you
obviously haven't done because most things you said are just not valid
for the actual problem. You might want to get informed about what a
Geforce FX5200 really is, how it performs, how much power it draws and
what amount of heat it dissipates.

Talking about things that might be valid for most cases when some fan
failed but which are not applicable to this situation is a waste of time.

Benjamin

Phil Weldon[_2_]
October 9th 08, 08:07 PM
'Benjamin Gawert' wrote, in part:
> Yeah, generally. But we are not talking generally, it's about a very
> specific situation. It's amazing how this is overlooked again and again
....
_____

Very much like, well, the US presidential campaign debates?

Phil Weldon

"Benjamin Gawert" > wrote in message
...
>* kony:
>
>> It is also possible the card overheats,
>> locks up the system, fails completely... not just after
>> having ran it for a few days, the heat buildup stresses it
>> longer term.
>
> Even when the chances are low, of course it can be possible. So what?
> Having wasted a card that has no remaining value and where better
> replacement can be had probably for less than what a new fan would have
> cost?
>
>> It's more likely if someone plays games than
>> not, but still a risk either way.
>
> Well, if someone plays games that really cause a raise of GPU temperature
> then overheating will definitely be the least problem he has.
>
>> I get dead computer gear all the time because of fan
>> failures. It's sound advice to have a fan on a card which
>> the manufacturer fitted with a fan, when using the original
>> heatsink still.
>
> Yeah, generally. But we are not talking generally, it's about a very
> specific situation. It's amazing how this is overlooked again and again in
> this thread.
>
> Benjamin

kony
October 9th 08, 10:05 PM
On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:58:25 +0100, Benjamin Gawert
> wrote:

>* kony:
>
>> IF the card isn't used for anything 3D it may run at lower
>> clockspeed and voltage,
>
>No, it doesn't.
>
>> if that is the case it would be
>> easier to cool, but still a big risk as even some
>> screensavers cause 3D mode.
>
>Right. But this doesn't change a thing.
>
>> Big risk isn't just about loss of a low value card, it's
>> about replacement cost and system downtime
>
>Nonsense. If downtime would be an issue the OP probably had already
>bought a replacement.
>

If you hadn't noticed, the OP is right now looking for a
replacement - of the part that is failing which makes sense.
Otherwise, as the OP had already described an immediate
action had been taken which has had the desired result. The
problem with a fan is progressive and can be monitored. The
problem with damaging the GPU or PCB it's soldered to can be
a sudden failure without warning.

>> , big risk is a
>> relative term since we are talking about a video card not an
>> atom bomb. The risk to that video card is a big one without
>> the fan it was meant to have on the original 'sink and
>> that's why they didn't just save 20 cents by doing without
>> the fan or why they spend more for a larger heatsink when
>> it's a passive heatsink.
>
>Well, maybe you should look at the specific situation, which is what you
>obviously haven't done because most things you said are just not valid
>for the actual problem.

I don't do that because I've seen too many lower power cards
fail when the fan did. The card manufacturer does not
choose a larger heatsink for passive operation without
reason. When I write "larger" it doesn't even necessarily
have to have much greater two dimensional surface area, but
by simply putting fins where the fan would have been it has
already came near doubling the surface area and heatsinking
ability over a fanned version without the fan on it.


>You might want to get informed about what a
>Geforce FX5200 really is, how it performs, how much power it draws and
>what amount of heat it dissipates.
>

You might want to show an example of any other video card,
CPU, northbridge, etc, that uses the same power as FX5200
GPU and uses the same small size and surface area of the
original heatsink - doing so with no fan and no expectation
of a fan forced airflow in the immediate vicinity (worth
mentioning because sometimes northbridge 'sinks are meant to
be cooled by the CPU 'sink fan exhaust which is only an inch
or so away).


>Talking about things that might be valid for most cases when some fan
>failed but which are not applicable to this situation is a waste of time.
>
>Benjamin

It has everything to do with the specific heatsink on it.

I agree that FX5200 uses very little power, very low heat
compared to most modern video cards. The problem is that
because of this, when card manufacturers used fanned
heatsinks it allowed them to use extremely minimalistic
ones, some being little more than a stamped piece of
aluminum folded up on the edges to make a fan frame. Such a
'sink is good for about 2W parts without a fan, and even
then only if it has a good thermal interface instead of the
typical random blob of grease or pad thrown on during
manufacturing.

On the other hand some FX5200 sinks were much better than
that, it depends quite a lot what the 'sink is like. The
following is one of the most minimal passive 'sinks used on
FX5200,

http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/XFX-FX-5200.jpg
it has at least twice the surface area of the aforementioned
minimal fanned version. Here are examples of minimally
fanned versions that cannot run safely with the fan removed:

http://www.jpmccom.net/store/images/vga_fx5200.jpg
http://images.tigerdirect.com/skuimages/large/E145-5201-main2.jpg
http://www.arkua.com.tw/images/FX%205200.jpg

The following is an example of a fanned sink that is massive
enough, with enough surface area that the fan could be
removed and it would still cool sufficiently:
http://www.pittjug.org/catalog/pics/Geforce_FX5200_128MB_AGP_DDR_Video_Card.jpg

Ultimately there is an easier solution, to check the
temperature with the nVidia control panel or if there is no
semblance of a valid reading then one might use a
thermometer or at least touch-test the sink during a basic
stress test, something like running 3DMark2000 looping for
15 minutes or more. It should not feel so hot that you
can't leave your hand on it for more than a moment.

kony
October 9th 08, 10:12 PM
On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:51:34 +0100, Benjamin Gawert
> wrote:

>* kony:
>
>> It is also possible the card overheats,
>> locks up the system, fails completely... not just after
>> having ran it for a few days, the heat buildup stresses it
>> longer term.
>
>Even when the chances are low, of course it can be possible. So what?
>Having wasted a card that has no remaining value and where better
>replacement can be had probably for less than what a new fan would have
>cost?

I agree, if a replacement card can easily be found that is
one option. That won't necessarily take less time than just
putting an alternate heatsink on this one nor will it
"probably" cost less. You can get a heatsink/fan delivered
for about $10, so to be much cheaper it would have to be a
local used card purpose to do without shipping cost but if
it costs a gallon of gas and a half hour round trip to drive
there then the economy is gone already.



>
>> It's more likely if someone plays games than
>> not, but still a risk either way.
>
>Well, if someone plays games that really cause a raise of GPU
>temperature then overheating will definitely be the least problem he has.

That statement makes no sense whatsoever. Anyone who plays
games with any video card will find that it causes a rise in
GPU temp. When a minimal heatsink such as one meant to have
a fan does not have that fan on it, it is obvious enough
that the rise in temp can go high enough to cause problems.
It is not the least of any problem, it is the situation with
every video card and properly set up system.



>
>> I get dead computer gear all the time because of fan
>> failures. It's sound advice to have a fan on a card which
>> the manufacturer fitted with a fan, when using the original
>> heatsink still.
>
>Yeah, generally. But we are not talking generally, it's about a very
>specific situation. It's amazing how this is overlooked again and again
>in this thread.
>
>Benjamin


Yes, in a specific situation where a card has a fan on it,
it is specifically bad to remove the fan assuming it will be
ok without - that is specifically why it had a fan on it in
the first place. As I wrote and linked examples of in a
prior post, it has everything to do with the specific
heatsink that's installed.

Derek[_2_]
October 13th 08, 06:39 PM
"kony" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:52:14 -0600, "rms"
> > wrote:
>
>>> Depending on how worn the fan bearing was, how long it ran
>>> like that, odds are fair that it may run for a long time
>>> after relubed
>>
>> This part is certainly true. I've relubed noisy fans with Inox spray
>>lube, and they are going strong and silent two years later.
>>
>
>
> Ok, and using the right lube I've had some run over 10
> years, others thrown away with retired parts years later so
> I'd have no idea when they might've failed in the future.
> Tiny, small diameter and small thickness horizontally
> mounted sleeve bearing video card and chipset fans are among
> the hardest to keep working longer term, that is why the
> choice of lube becomes more important than with other fans
> in a PC. Fortunately the chipset fans are seldom horizontal
> unless the case is a desktop instead of tower type, but
> unless the case is a desktop instead of tower the video card
> fan is almost always horizontal which is a potential
> problem.
>
> ASTM D445 weight for Inox is 10/2.5 (40C/100C)
> ASTM D445 weight for 10W30 motor oil ~ 73/11.
> ASTM D445 weight for 20W50 motor oil ~158/19
>
>
> Plain old 20W50 motor oil is still too thin for the best
> result but many times better than Inox. Recognize that
> viscosity is the most important factor in a fan. The
> tolerances in a worn fan (to the point of needing relubed)
> are greater than in an automobile and even an automobile
> needs more viscous oil than 10/2.5. The oil is most
> effective when it is displacing part of the empty area in
> the bearing and when the higher film strength keeps the fan
> shaft from an eliptical pattern (which is the shape a
> bearing wears towards). If the shaft is not kept from an
> elliptical pattern this forces more lube out the more
> elliptical it becomes.
would a more suitable alternative be an EP oil as they are much
more viscous then normal engine oils say EP90 ( Landrover nut here of
course)
Derek

Andrew Smallshaw
October 13th 08, 09:35 PM
On 2008-10-13, Derek > wrote:
>
> "kony" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Plain old 20W50 motor oil is still too thin for the best
>> result but many times better than Inox. Recognize that
>> viscosity is the most important factor in a fan...

> would a more suitable alternative be an EP oil as they are much
> more viscous then normal engine oils say EP90 ( Landrover nut here of
> course)
> Derek

Yes.

--
Andrew Smallshaw

kony
October 13th 08, 11:48 PM
On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:39:10 +0100, "Derek"
> wrote:


>> ASTM D445 weight for Inox is 10/2.5 (40C/100C)
>> ASTM D445 weight for 10W30 motor oil ~ 73/11.
>> ASTM D445 weight for 20W50 motor oil ~158/19
>>
>>
>> Plain old 20W50 motor oil is still too thin for the best
>> result but many times better than Inox. Recognize that
>> viscosity is the most important factor in a fan. The
>> tolerances in a worn fan (to the point of needing relubed)
>> are greater than in an automobile and even an automobile
>> needs more viscous oil than 10/2.5. The oil is most
>> effective when it is displacing part of the empty area in
>> the bearing and when the higher film strength keeps the fan
>> shaft from an eliptical pattern (which is the shape a
>> bearing wears towards). If the shaft is not kept from an
>> elliptical pattern this forces more lube out the more
>> elliptical it becomes.

>would a more suitable alternative be an EP oil as they are much
>more viscous then normal engine oils say EP90 ( Landrover nut here of
>course)
>Derek
>

Yes it's possible some EP oils will be better due to higher
viscosity, though I hesitate to say all EP oil is
universally a higher viscosity. Generally, anything meant
for use in an automobile crankcase is too low a viscosity to
be ideal - but for practical purposes it may not be as
necessary to have an ideal as it is to just avoid something
low enough in viscosity that enough of it won't stay in the
bearing during the needed service period.