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Guest[_2_]
February 12th 08, 09:11 PM
How come this is not the standard? ****, it is hard finding an old card with this. I finally found an ATI one.

Conor[_2_]
February 12th 08, 10:40 PM
In article >, Guest
says...
> How come this is not the standard? ****, it is hard finding an old card with this. I finally found an ATI one.
My Asus 7800GT has it complete with a dongle that takes composite, RGB
and S-Video inputs.

--
Conor

As a Brit I'd like to thank the Americans for their help in the war
against terror because if they'd not funded the IRA for 30 years, we
wouldn't know how to deal with terrorists.

deimos[_2_]
February 13th 08, 12:52 AM
Guest wrote:
> How come this is not the standard? ****, it is hard finding an old card
> with this. I finally found an ATI one.

Use a discreet video capture card and you won't have to worry about it.
The same encoder chips are used for analog capture as the ones you'll
find on any GF7 with WDM capture (Philips SAA71xx, Conexant CX series,
etc). Plus with most current video capture devices (even USB2 versions)
you can get 2 tuners, an NTSC/PAL and ATSC/QAM/8VSB (or DVB).

Guest[_2_]
February 13th 08, 06:06 AM
"deimos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
> Guest wrote:
>> How come this is not the standard? ****, it is hard finding an old card
>> with this. I finally found an ATI one.
>
> Use a discreet video capture card and you won't have to worry about it.
> The same encoder chips are used for analog capture as the ones you'll find
> on any GF7 with WDM capture (Philips SAA71xx, Conexant CX series, etc).
> Plus with most current video capture devices (even USB2 versions) you can
> get 2 tuners, an NTSC/PAL and ATSC/QAM/8VSB (or DVB).


I tried, but none of those TV tuners seems to encode as well as the Nvidia
chips. Besides, why should I have to buy something else when it could be on
the video card? Hell. it's the good thing that there is another company out
there.

Gorby
February 13th 08, 02:01 PM
Ryan Hatfield wrote:
> Guest wrote:
>> "deimos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Guest wrote:
>>>> How come this is not the standard? ****, it is hard finding an old
>>>> card with this. I finally found an ATI one.
>>>
>>> Use a discreet video capture card and you won't have to worry about
>>> it. The same encoder chips are used for analog capture as the ones
>>> you'll find on any GF7 with WDM capture (Philips SAA71xx, Conexant CX
>>> series, etc). Plus with most current video capture devices (even USB2
>>> versions) you can get 2 tuners, an NTSC/PAL and ATSC/QAM/8VSB (or DVB).
>>
>>
>> I tried, but none of those TV tuners seems to encode as well as the
>> Nvidia chips. Besides, why should I have to buy something else when
>> it could be on the video card? Hell. it's the good thing that there
>> is another company out there.
>
> Yeah, I still don't understand why all those people spend so much money
> buying a video card when they could just buy motherboard that does the
> same thing.
Yes!
(what is the ironic smiley?)

First of One[_2_]
February 14th 08, 02:14 AM
The reason is probably quite rational. i.e. nVidia did market research and
concluded many people (I, for example) don't use video-in, so the company
left off this feature in the reference design, to avoid undue cost burden on
the board mfrs.

To give you an idea, back in the day, the 6800GT/Ultra GPU was a native AGP
part. The PCIe variants had an HSI bridge chip. As PCIe cards became
popular, some board mfrs were bitching about paying $5 extra for this bridge
chip, pressuring nVidia to spin separate GPU designs for the AGP and PCIe
cards.

The ATi cards have a separate Rage Theater chip on the board for video-in.
My X1900XT has such a chip. I disabled it in Device Manager (now it has a
big red "X"), to avoid the hassle of installing WDM drivers for it.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

"Guest" > wrote in message
. ..
How come this is not the standard? ****, it is hard finding an old card
with this. I finally found an ATI one.

deimos[_2_]
February 14th 08, 02:51 AM
Gorby wrote:
> Ryan Hatfield wrote:
>> Guest wrote:
>>> "deimos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Guest wrote:
>>>>> How come this is not the standard? ****, it is hard finding an old
>>>>> card with this. I finally found an ATI one.
>>>>
>>>> Use a discreet video capture card and you won't have to worry about
>>>> it. The same encoder chips are used for analog capture as the ones
>>>> you'll find on any GF7 with WDM capture (Philips SAA71xx, Conexant
>>>> CX series, etc). Plus with most current video capture devices (even
>>>> USB2 versions) you can get 2 tuners, an NTSC/PAL and ATSC/QAM/8VSB
>>>> (or DVB).
>>>
>>>
>>> I tried, but none of those TV tuners seems to encode as well as the
>>> Nvidia chips. Besides, why should I have to buy something else when
>>> it could be on the video card? Hell. it's the good thing that there
>>> is another company out there.
>>
>> Yeah, I still don't understand why all those people spend so much
>> money buying a video card when they could just buy motherboard that
>> does the same thing.
> Yes!
> (what is the ironic smiley?)

At least somebody gets it :).

To the OP, the point is that you have combined two functions
unnecessarily into one device and if it fails or you have to upgrade,
you lose both. Plus when you consider that the encoding chips available
are precisely the same between both, there's no reason to have it one
the video card.

Sure it's nice, but for that extra cost to the OEM, they have to skimp
on other board component's quality to sell at the same margin, and it
becomes hard to replace your card (precisely what you're running into).

As for encoding quality, I can say that the SAA7135 chip in my KWorld
tuner is excellent beyond all doubt. It has temporal and chroma noise
filtering as well as motions filters, etc, all built in, which would
otherwise be done in software (it can even do deinterlacing).

Then take a look at the ATSC tuner built into the same card, it's the
NX2004, which is the same as featured in ATI's Theater 650 card (a tuner
lauded for it's excellent image quality).

So having a generic "NVIDIA Integrated Encoder" built into a mid-range
or budget graphics card is not as nice as having a good quality tuner
and your choice of high performance graphics card.

GMAN[_4_]
February 14th 08, 04:14 AM
In article >, "First of One" > wrote:
>The reason is probably quite rational. i.e. nVidia did market research and
>concluded many people (I, for example) don't use video-in, so the company
>left off this feature in the reference design, to avoid undue cost burden on
>the board mfrs.
>
>To give you an idea, back in the day, the 6800GT/Ultra GPU was a native AGP
>part. The PCIe variants had an HSI bridge chip. As PCIe cards became
>popular, some board mfrs were bitching about paying $5 extra for this bridge
>chip, pressuring nVidia to spin separate GPU designs for the AGP and PCIe
>cards.
>
>The ATi cards have a separate Rage Theater chip on the board for video-in.
>My X1900XT has such a chip. I disabled it in Device Manager (now it has a
>big red "X"), to avoid the hassle of installing WDM drivers for it.
>
Um that Theatre chip also handles video transcoding, not just capture. You
might want to reenable it.

First of One[_2_]
February 15th 08, 03:39 AM
Transcoding, you mean like format conversion (e.g. MPEG2 to XviD)? Which
converter app actually uses the Theater 200 chip? ATi's own? Is it actually
any faster than CPU-based converters on modern dual-core systems?

The AVIVO converter is all CPU-based (albeit very efficient software), if
that's what you mean.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"GMAN" > wrote in message
...
>>The ATi cards have a separate Rage Theater chip on the board for video-in.
>>My X1900XT has such a chip. I disabled it in Device Manager (now it has a
>>big red "X"), to avoid the hassle of installing WDM drivers for it.
>>
> Um that Theatre chip also handles video transcoding, not just capture. You
> might want to reenable it.

GMAN[_4_]
February 15th 08, 04:32 PM
In article >, "First of One" > wrote:
>Transcoding, you mean like format conversion (e.g. MPEG2 to XviD)? Which
>converter app actually uses the Theater 200 chip? ATi's own? Is it actually
>any faster than CPU-based converters on modern dual-core systems?
>
>The AVIVO converter is all CPU-based (albeit very efficient software), if
>that's what you mean.
>
The AVIVO software for the newest ATI cards does use some of the GPU for
speeding up transcoding tasks. Otherwise, if it was just cpu based only, it
would work with any computer and card , not just the X1000 or newer series
cards

First of One[_2_]
February 16th 08, 12:09 AM
The AVIVO video converter works on *any* card with a crack, including nVidia
cards. The X1K+ restriction was done purely for marketing reasons.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33838774

And yes, it's purely CPU based, and ATi cuts corners with the encoding
algorithms to give the perception of fast encode speed, at the expense of
quality, so it isn't a program for serious users. (Which may explain why it
is only accessible through CCC set in novice mode.) Try it yourself. The
download is still available here:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/12/20/ati_avivo_transcoder_for_all/

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"GMAN" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "First of One"
> > wrote:
>>Transcoding, you mean like format conversion (e.g. MPEG2 to XviD)? Which
>>converter app actually uses the Theater 200 chip? ATi's own? Is it
>>actually
>>any faster than CPU-based converters on modern dual-core systems?
>>
>>The AVIVO converter is all CPU-based (albeit very efficient software), if
>>that's what you mean.
>>
> The AVIVO software for the newest ATI cards does use some of the GPU for
> speeding up transcoding tasks. Otherwise, if it was just cpu based only,
> it
> would work with any computer and card , not just the X1000 or newer series
> cards

GMAN[_4_]
February 16th 08, 09:38 PM
In article >, "First of One" > wrote:
>The AVIVO video converter works on *any* card with a crack, including nVidia
>cards. The X1K+ restriction was done purely for marketing reasons.
>http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33838774
>
>And yes, it's purely CPU based, and ATi cuts corners with the encoding
>algorithms to give the perception of fast encode speed, at the expense of
>quality, so it isn't a program for serious users. (Which may explain why it
>is only accessible through CCC set in novice mode.) Try it yourself. The
>download is still available here:
>http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/12/20/ati_avivo_transcoder_for_all/
>
Cool, thanks for the links.