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Jason A.
December 13th 07, 05:31 AM
I am contemplating pulling the trigger after X-Mas, and going SLI. I've
got the motherboard, and I've currently got a PNY 8800GTS 640MB.

Problem is, PNY no longer makes this card, they've gone to the 512MB
GTS. Could I SLI with dis-similar brands, as long as I stay with the
same model, and ideally, the same core chip (G80 vs G92?) and clock speed?

Looks like, at a rough guesstimate, based on near ideal conditions, I
could likely expect about a 50-75% speed boost, all other hardware
remaining the same. I'd also likely need either a beefier power supply
(only a 550w now), or a second power supply, and split the load.

Thanks
Jason A.

First of One[_2_]
December 13th 07, 05:48 AM
You can SLI different brands and different clock speeds.

You cannot SLI different GPUs. This means GTS 640 MB won't work with GTS 512
MB. I believe it also means GTS 640 MB (96 shaders) won't work with GTS
"SSC" 640 MB (112 shaders).

nVidia really screwed up the naming scheme this time. It will be even more
fun when nVidia unveils the Geforce 9800, not to be confused with the Radeon
9800...

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"Jason A." > wrote in message
...
>I am contemplating pulling the trigger after X-Mas, and going SLI. I've
>got the motherboard, and I've currently got a PNY 8800GTS 640MB.
>
> Problem is, PNY no longer makes this card, they've gone to the 512MB GTS.
> Could I SLI with dis-similar brands, as long as I stay with the same
> model, and ideally, the same core chip (G80 vs G92?) and clock speed?
>
> Looks like, at a rough guesstimate, based on near ideal conditions, I
> could likely expect about a 50-75% speed boost, all other hardware
> remaining the same. I'd also likely need either a beefier power supply
> (only a 550w now), or a second power supply, and split the load.
>
> Thanks
> Jason A.

Ed Medlin
December 13th 07, 01:08 PM
"Jason A." > wrote in message
...
>I am contemplating pulling the trigger after X-Mas, and going SLI. I've
>got the motherboard, and I've currently got a PNY 8800GTS 640MB.
>
> Problem is, PNY no longer makes this card, they've gone to the 512MB GTS.
> Could I SLI with dis-similar brands, as long as I stay with the same
> model, and ideally, the same core chip (G80 vs G92?) and clock speed?
>
> Looks like, at a rough guesstimate, based on near ideal conditions, I
> could likely expect about a 50-75% speed boost, all other hardware
> remaining the same. I'd also likely need either a beefier power supply
> (only a 550w now), or a second power supply, and split the load.
>
> Thanks
> Jason A.

You can use any other 8800GTS just fine, even if the memory amount is
different. I think you are expecting a bit more than you will get with SLI.
I get an increase of about 30-35% in overall performance with two 8800 GTXs
over a single GTX, slightly more in some apps and slightly less in others.
50-75% performance increase just aint gonna happen. For example, in 3D Mark
06 and one GTX I get in the 14000 overall range. In SLI, about 17500-17700.
A good jump, but not 50%.


Ed

DaveW[_5_]
December 13th 07, 11:54 PM
Different manufacturers clock the GPU and the video RAM differently. You
really need to use two IDENTICAL video cards for SLI.

--
--DaveW
"Jason A." > wrote in message
...
>I am contemplating pulling the trigger after X-Mas, and going SLI. I've
>got the motherboard, and I've currently got a PNY 8800GTS 640MB.
>
> Problem is, PNY no longer makes this card, they've gone to the 512MB GTS.
> Could I SLI with dis-similar brands, as long as I stay with the same
> model, and ideally, the same core chip (G80 vs G92?) and clock speed?
>
> Looks like, at a rough guesstimate, based on near ideal conditions, I
> could likely expect about a 50-75% speed boost, all other hardware
> remaining the same. I'd also likely need either a beefier power supply
> (only a 550w now), or a second power supply, and split the load.
>
> Thanks
> Jason A.

Igor Hitrec
December 14th 07, 12:00 AM
"DaveW" > wrote in message
...
> Different manufacturers clock the GPU and the video RAM differently. You
> really need to use two IDENTICAL video cards for SLI.

That's not completely true. It is partially true if you use factory
overclocked cards.
If you're talking about stock cards on stock, reference clocks, you can use
any card
you want. Most of the reviews are for single card, but there are a couple of
reviews
covering SLI as well, like these one:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/13772
http://it-review.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2432&Itemid=91

As you can see, both of these teams used cards by "different manufacturers".

Also, those are not different manufacturers - all of the cards are the same
and manufactured by NVIDIA.
Partners are just stick&stamping their stuff and selling them.

DRS
December 14th 07, 12:04 AM
"DaveW" > wrote in message

> Different manufacturers clock the GPU and the video RAM differently. You
> really need to use two IDENTICAL video cards for SLI.

Do you ever stop talking through your arse? Nvidia relaxed the SLI matching
requirements two years ago. Today the GPUs must be the same, not the cards.
If the cards run at different speeds the faster one will underclock to match
the slower one.

DRS
December 14th 07, 12:07 AM
"Igor Hitrec" > wrote in message


[...]

> Also, those are not different manufacturers - all of the cards are
> the same and manufactured by NVIDIA.
> Partners are just stick&stamping their stuff and selling them.

Nvidia does not make retail cards, full stop. Their partners do indeed
manufacture the cards, sometimes copying Nvidia's reference design,
sometimes not.

Igor Hitrec
December 14th 07, 12:29 AM
"DRS" > wrote in message
...
> "Igor Hitrec" > wrote in message
>

> Nvidia does not make retail cards, full stop. Their partners do indeed
> manufacture the cards, sometimes copying Nvidia's reference design,
> sometimes not.

You are wrong, full stop. But feel free to think whatever you want - no
problem in that...

Most of the designs are reference, and by "most", I'm talking about VAST
majority -
especially when NVIDIA is launching new products. All of the reference
designs are
manufactured/assembled by NVIDIA, and NVIDIA sells them to partners.
Partners then
use their stickers, boxes, manuals, CD's and other stuff and that's all the
difference
you'll see within "reference" cards.

Non-reference designs are done by partners, sometimes by copying reference
designs, sometimes
by changing tiny bits, sometimes coolers, somethimes other things. OC'ed
designs are very often
plain old reference designs cherrypicked and OCed by partner AFTER they're
bought by partner
from NVIDIA. Perfect examples - EVGA KO/Superclocked/Black Pearl/whatnot.
Some of them
feature changed coolers (water with BP), but they're nonetheless reference
cards, bought by EVGA
from NVIDIA and then branded as EVGA. Same thing goes for motherboards.

Mr.E Solved!
December 14th 07, 03:54 AM
Igor Hitrec wrote:

> All of the reference designs are manufactured/assembled by NVIDIA, and NVIDIA sells them to partners.

That above statement shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

I would describe in detail the differences between fabless manufacturers
such as nvidia and ATI and actual manufacturers such as Foxconn, PC
Partner and TMSC, and how it all goes together...

But you seem to know something we all don't, Igor. So please, enlighten
us as to the specifics of the process. We could all benefit from your
unique understanding.

Jason A.
December 14th 07, 05:11 AM
So, short answer seems to be that yes, I can mix brands, as long as I
stay with the same chipset, and RAM on the card.

Even better if I keep the shaders etc the same, as well.

The faster card will underclock itself to match the slower card, also.

Cool.

Jason A. wrote:
> I am contemplating pulling the trigger after X-Mas, and going SLI. I've
> got the motherboard, and I've currently got a PNY 8800GTS 640MB.
>
> Problem is, PNY no longer makes this card, they've gone to the 512MB
> GTS. Could I SLI with dis-similar brands, as long as I stay with the
> same model, and ideally, the same core chip (G80 vs G92?) and clock speed?
>
> Looks like, at a rough guesstimate, based on near ideal conditions, I
> could likely expect about a 50-75% speed boost, all other hardware
> remaining the same. I'd also likely need either a beefier power supply
> (only a 550w now), or a second power supply, and split the load.
>
> Thanks
> Jason A.

Ed Medlin
December 14th 07, 03:08 PM
"DaveW" > wrote in message
...
> Different manufacturers clock the GPU and the video RAM differently. You
> really need to use two IDENTICAL video cards for SLI.
>
> --
> --DaveW
You don't have a clue Dave...........As long as it is the same GPU, it will
do fine. Put the faster clocked GPU/Memory in the top slot.........that is
all you need.


Ed

Ed Medlin
December 14th 07, 03:14 PM
"Jason A." > wrote in message
news:[email protected] .com...
> So, short answer seems to be that yes, I can mix brands, as long as I stay
> with the same chipset, and RAM on the card.
>
Yes....... No matter what DaveW might say...........:-)

> Even better if I keep the shaders etc the same, as well.
>
> The faster card will underclock itself to match the slower card, also.
>
Place the faster clocked card in the top X16 slot. I am not exactly sure how
it all works, but in forums I have read that slightly better performance is
seen in that configuration. I don't know for sure myself, but that is what I
would do. The main thing is that you have the same GPU in both cards.

> Cool.

First of One[_2_]
December 14th 07, 11:56 PM
"GPU is the same" isn't as simple as it sounds. For example, a 7800GTX 256MB
won't work with a 7800GTX 512MB, because there were subtle improvements made
to the 512's GPU and PCB layout.

nVidia did a pretty nasty job with the 8800GTS nomenclature: there is the
original G80 (96 SP), the newer G80 "SSC" with more unlocked shader units
(112 SP) and the newest G92 (128 SP). These cards are not intermixable in
SLI.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"John Edmister" > wrote in message
...
> Holy hell talk about making it complicated......
> The simple answer is, without all the bs, as long as the GPU is the same,
> yes you can, manufacturer doesn't matter, memory doesn't matter, clock
> speed doesn't matter, alls that matters is the GPU. You WILL however have
> to realize that if you have a 256 card and you buy a 512, the system will
> only use 256, and, it will only run as fast as the slowest card.
> I have an XFX 7800GTX, and a BFG 7800GTX and my SLI works good, although I
> will add that I saw marginal improvements, well worth the $150 I paid for
> the 2nd card, but, DEFANITLY not worth a retail $200-$400 for a brand new
> card <I bought it on ebay> Do, dont expect miricles bud, cause you wont
> see THAT big of an improvement!!!! It will run just a little bit smoother,
> and, 10-50 FPS faster..... So if you get a good deal go for it, if its
> more than $150...... save it, and buy the latest and the greatest!!!!!
>
> --
> =s5a=Jackyl
> Asus A8N32-SLI del
> AMD FX-57
> 2gb Geil performance 3200
> 350gb SATA seagate barracuda 3.0
> XFX 7800GTX in SLI
> LG L1732TQ in DVI 1280x1024
> Envision EFT920 in VGA 1280x1024
>
> "Jason A." > wrote in message
> ...
>>I am contemplating pulling the trigger after X-Mas, and going SLI. I've
>>got the motherboard, and I've currently got a PNY 8800GTS 640MB.
>>
>> Problem is, PNY no longer makes this card, they've gone to the 512MB GTS.
>> Could I SLI with dis-similar brands, as long as I stay with the same
>> model, and ideally, the same core chip (G80 vs G92?) and clock speed?
>>
>> Looks like, at a rough guesstimate, based on near ideal conditions, I
>> could likely expect about a 50-75% speed boost, all other hardware
>> remaining the same. I'd also likely need either a beefier power supply
>> (only a 550w now), or a second power supply, and split the load.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jason A.
>
>

DRS
December 15th 07, 03:00 AM
"Mr.E Solved!" > wrote in message

> Igor Hitrec wrote:
>
>> All of the reference designs are manufactured/assembled by NVIDIA,
>> and NVIDIA sells them to partners.
>
> That above statement shows you have no idea what you are talking
> about.
> I would describe in detail the differences between fabless
> manufacturers such as nvidia and ATI and actual manufacturers such as
> Foxconn, PC Partner and TMSC, and how it all goes together...
>
> But you seem to know something we all don't, Igor. So please,
> enlighten us as to the specifics of the process. We could all benefit
> from your unique understanding.

I exercised my Google-fu and found there is some truth to what Igor said.
Nvidia are indeed supplying complete 8000 cards to vendors (I'll no longer
call them manufacturers) who then slap a sticker on the cooler cover and put
it in a box. Unless the card is obviously not a reference design it's now
very hard to determine who manufactured it, nor do I have a list of which
"manufacturers" are now just marketting for Nvidia.

See http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/g80-12.html

December 15th 07, 03:31 PM
> I exercised my Google-fu and found there is some truth to what Igor said.
> Nvidia are indeed supplying complete 8000 cards to vendors (I'll no longer
> call them manufacturers) who then slap a sticker on the cooler cover and put
> it in a box. Unless the card is obviously not a reference design it's now
> very hard to determine who manufactured it, nor do I have a list of which
> "manufacturers" are now just marketting for Nvidia.

Yeah, that article pretty much says just what I was trying to say.
Everything
nicely summed up.

However, there's one other thing that needs clarification - even some
"overclocked"
boards (no matter if we're talking about MBO or VGA) are the same,
reference
design like NVIDIA's and bought by a partner from NVIDIA and then re-
tested,
re-binned, re-branded as something "overclocked". For example, check
this
out:

http://www.evga.com/products/prodlist.asp?family=GeForce+8+Series+Family

Do you really think that ANY of these cards are in ANY way different,
apart
from the fact that they've been handpicked by EVGA and BIOS-modded so
their
"reference" clock is somewhat different then the "original" reference
design?
Of course, I'm talking about the same "series" so - all of the Ultras
are the
same, all of the GTX's are the same. Skip the Black Pearl, that's the
same
thing with a different cooler, but also a perfect example of the very
same
thing I'm talking about.

If we're talking about non-reference designs, that's completely
different. It's
just that they're very rare. Here are a couple of examples:

http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=proddesc&prod_no=1168&maincat_no=1
http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2526

Also, if you check out any of the articles related to 680i/8800 series
launch,
like these:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/chipsets/display/nforce-680i-sli.html
http://it-review.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=654&Itemid=105
http://it-review.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=696&Itemid=91
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2869

It's very nicely repeated on more then one occasion how everything's
done.
But - of course - everyone can think whatever they want to think :-)

Mr.E Solved!
December 15th 07, 03:55 PM
DRS wrote:

> I exercised my Google-fu and found there is some truth to what Igor said.
> Nvidia are indeed supplying complete 8000 cards to vendors (I'll no longer
> call them manufacturers) who then slap a sticker on the cooler cover and put
> it in a box. Unless the card is obviously not a reference design it's now
> very hard to determine who manufactured it, nor do I have a list of which
> "manufacturers" are now just marketting for Nvidia.
>
> See http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/g80-12.html
>
>

Still no! Nvidia is not manufacturing or "assembling" them, they are
being outsourced to the above mentioned companies which assemble them.

Nvidia has supplied complete units to the vendors for some time, across
many models, there is no "Nvidia" factory.

The confusion lies here: The boards should properly be called PINE or
FOXCONN or PC PARTNER boards designed by nvidia. Not Leadtek or XFX or
eVGA made by nvidia. See the difference?

Mr.E Solved!
December 15th 07, 04:03 PM
wrote:

>
> Yeah, that article pretty much says just what I was trying to say.
> Everything
> nicely summed up.

Except for the fact it's incorrect. Nvidia does not have a factory where
they make boards, nor assemble them. All of that is handled in the asian
foundries.

Nvidia designs the circuits, the foundries make the boards and assemble
them under contract and ship them wherever they go, back to nvidia for
some models, to VAR's for others.

December 15th 07, 04:07 PM
On Dec 15, 4:03 pm, "Mr.E Solved!" > wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > Yeah, that article pretty much says just what I was trying to say.
> > Everything
> > nicely summed up.
>
> Except for the fact it's incorrect. Nvidia does not have a factory where
> they make boards, nor assemble them. All of that is handled in the asian
> foundries.
>
> Nvidia designs the circuits, the foundries make the boards and assemble
> them under contract and ship them wherever they go, back to nvidia for
> some models, to VAR's for others.

Excuse me for not being completely correct - and it's too late now to
say
that's what I ment. But what still stands is the fact that I said that
NVIDIA
SELLS them to partners, and you said that's not true. So, we're tied :)

Mr.E Solved!
December 15th 07, 07:51 PM
wrote:

> Excuse me for not being completely correct - and it's too late now to
> say
> that's what I ment. But what still stands is the fact that I said that
> NVIDIA
> SELLS them to partners, and you said that's not true. So, we're tied :)

As long as you realize that Nvidia doesn't actually 'make' anything,
unlike it's prior rival 3dfx which did. (That difference also was a big
reason why 3dfx failed and Nvidia is still going strong.)

If you want credit for alerting buyers that there is precious little
difference between brands, take as much credit as you want, just be sure
to also point out that the card's BIOSes are routinely adjusted (and
subsequently broken) by the various VARs to attempt to distinguish them
in the retail market. So some brands are 'better' than others in that
respect.

The same principle is in effect with many electronic devices LCDs, MP3
players, DVD/CD drives... there are only a handful of actual places
where the stuff is created, regardless of brand or outer shell
appearance the components inside are the exact same.