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View Full Version : Re: "Xbox 2011" - predicting the NEXT generation Xbox


JBDragon
November 17th 07, 06:51 AM
> wrote in message
...
> On Nov 15, 4:03 pm, AirRaid > wrote:
>> * CPU/GPU - Integrated chip with 16 x 5GHz processor cores, 32 x 2GHz
>> graphics cores
>> * Memory - 8GB GDDR8
>> * Media - Dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive for backwards compatibility
>> and movies
>> * Storage - 4TB hard disk for online game (and movie) delivery
>> * Built-in camera - for gesture-based control
>> * Built-in microphone - for voice-recognised control
>
> Oh, come on! These numbers are WAY over what the next Xbox will have.
> Look at the jump from th Xbox1 to the 360. It was nowhere nearly this
> great. The Xbox1 went from an 8GB hard drive to a 20GB harddrive (even
> on the Premium edition) in five years (a 2.5x increase). And these
> guys think it will jump from 20GB to a massive *4 TB* over the next
> five (a 200x increase)!?!?!? The Xbox went from 64MB of memory on the
> Xbox1 to 512 on the 360 (an 8x increase). But they expect a 16x
> increase over the next five years?!?!?
>
> And I expect a HD-DVD drive upgrade on the 360 *long* before 2011.
> Developers are already pushing the limits of what a DVD can hold. If
> they're still using a DVD drive in 2011, Sony will be mopping the
> floor with them.

MS already stated that the HD DVD drive was for movies only, not games!!!
MS is not going to split the Gaming community to those with HD DVD drives,
and those without. Doing that kind of thing on past consoles has never
worked. Many games on the Xbox didn't even use half of a DVD disc. Also a
lot of times the Sequel of a game with better graphics and just better all
around was smaller in size then the original game! Some reason you think a
game needs all this space when it doesn't. HD Games don't really take much
more disc space then a Regular game. A bit larger Textures sure, but with
new and better compression, that takes less space and loads up faster. Put
it this way, PC games that can be using Higher Resolutions then a HDTV
aren't on a Blu-Ray or HD DVD Disc! Your falling for Sony Propaganda. HD
video on the other hand requires a lot more space then SD video. I guess if
you want to fill up disc space with lots of HD Video Cut scenes in a game,
you would need space. I say who cares. The Japanese may like that garbage
but generally US gamers don't. I always skip right past it if at all
possible.

No Company is going to fill most of 25 gig Blu-Ray disc with game Code!
It's not cost effective. Games are expensive enough to produce, especially
the more Popular games. The AAA games. Millions to make a game. You
MIGHT see a couple exclusive games on the PS3 that actually make use of the
space. Maybe Final Fantasy XIII. Again, a Japanese game. The PS1 had
games on more then 1 CD! What was wrong with that? I have no problem if a
game later down the road needs 2 DVD's! That's about 18 Gigs of space right
there.

The Reason the PS3 has a Blu-Ray drive is to get Blu-Ray drives out there
for HD movies. That's where the real money is to be made. Far more then
from gamers! Sony said in the past that people would buy the PS3 even if
there wasn't any games to play on it. Well currently there still isn't
anything worth playing on the PS3 for me.

mark johnson
November 17th 07, 10:14 AM
JBDragon wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Nov 15, 4:03 pm, AirRaid > wrote:
>>> * CPU/GPU - Integrated chip with 16 x 5GHz processor cores, 32 x 2GHz
>>> graphics cores
>>> * Memory - 8GB GDDR8
>>> * Media - Dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive for backwards compatibility
>>> and movies
>>> * Storage - 4TB hard disk for online game (and movie) delivery
>>> * Built-in camera - for gesture-based control
>>> * Built-in microphone - for voice-recognised control
>>
>> Oh, come on! These numbers are WAY over what the next Xbox will have.
>> Look at the jump from th Xbox1 to the 360. It was nowhere nearly this
>> great. The Xbox1 went from an 8GB hard drive to a 20GB harddrive (even
>> on the Premium edition) in five years (a 2.5x increase). And these
>> guys think it will jump from 20GB to a massive *4 TB* over the next
>> five (a 200x increase)!?!?!? The Xbox went from 64MB of memory on the
>> Xbox1 to 512 on the 360 (an 8x increase). But they expect a 16x
>> increase over the next five years?!?!?
>>
>> And I expect a HD-DVD drive upgrade on the 360 *long* before 2011.
>> Developers are already pushing the limits of what a DVD can hold. If
>> they're still using a DVD drive in 2011, Sony will be mopping the
>> floor with them.
>
> MS already stated that the HD DVD drive was for movies only, not
> games!!! MS is not going to split the Gaming community to those with HD
> DVD drives, and those without. Doing that kind of thing on past
> consoles has never worked. Many games on the Xbox didn't even use half
> of a DVD disc. Also a lot of times the Sequel of a game with better
> graphics and just better all around was smaller in size then the
> original game! Some reason you think a game needs all this space when
> it doesn't. HD Games don't really take much more disc space then a
> Regular game. A bit larger Textures sure, but with new and better
> compression, that takes less space and loads up faster. Put it this
> way, PC games that can be using Higher Resolutions then a HDTV aren't on
> a Blu-Ray or HD DVD Disc! Your falling for Sony Propaganda. HD video
> on the other hand requires a lot more space then SD video. I guess if
> you want to fill up disc space with lots of HD Video Cut scenes in a
> game, you would need space. I say who cares. The Japanese may like
> that garbage but generally US gamers don't. I always skip right past it
> if at all possible.
>
> No Company is going to fill most of 25 gig Blu-Ray disc with game Code!
> It's not cost effective. Games are expensive enough to produce,
> especially the more Popular games. The AAA games. Millions to make a
> game. You MIGHT see a couple exclusive games on the PS3 that actually
> make use of the space. Maybe Final Fantasy XIII. Again, a Japanese
> game. The PS1 had games on more then 1 CD! What was wrong with that?
> I have no problem if a game later down the road needs 2 DVD's! That's
> about 18 Gigs of space right there.
>

The guys who did Uncharted said they used around 91% of the Blu-ray disc

> The Reason the PS3 has a Blu-Ray drive is to get Blu-Ray drives out
> there for HD movies. That's where the real money is to be made. Far
> more then from gamers! Sony said in the past that people would buy the
> PS3 even if there wasn't any games to play on it. Well currently there
> still isn't anything worth playing on the PS3 for me.

Tom
November 17th 07, 03:44 PM
"Mark Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> JBDragon wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Nov 15, 4:03 pm, AirRaid > wrote:
>>>> * CPU/GPU - Integrated chip with 16 x 5GHz processor cores, 32 x 2GHz
>>>> graphics cores
>>>> * Memory - 8GB GDDR8
>>>> * Media - Dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive for backwards compatibility
>>>> and movies
>>>> * Storage - 4TB hard disk for online game (and movie) delivery
>>>> * Built-in camera - for gesture-based control
>>>> * Built-in microphone - for voice-recognised control
>>>
>>> Oh, come on! These numbers are WAY over what the next Xbox will have.
>>> Look at the jump from th Xbox1 to the 360. It was nowhere nearly this
>>> great. The Xbox1 went from an 8GB hard drive to a 20GB harddrive (even
>>> on the Premium edition) in five years (a 2.5x increase). And these
>>> guys think it will jump from 20GB to a massive *4 TB* over the next
>>> five (a 200x increase)!?!?!? The Xbox went from 64MB of memory on the
>>> Xbox1 to 512 on the 360 (an 8x increase). But they expect a 16x
>>> increase over the next five years?!?!?
>>>
>>> And I expect a HD-DVD drive upgrade on the 360 *long* before 2011.
>>> Developers are already pushing the limits of what a DVD can hold. If
>>> they're still using a DVD drive in 2011, Sony will be mopping the
>>> floor with them.
>>
>> MS already stated that the HD DVD drive was for movies only, not games!!!
>> MS is not going to split the Gaming community to those with HD DVD
>> drives, and those without. Doing that kind of thing on past consoles has
>> never worked. Many games on the Xbox didn't even use half of a DVD disc.
>> Also a lot of times the Sequel of a game with better graphics and just
>> better all around was smaller in size then the original game! Some
>> reason you think a game needs all this space when it doesn't. HD Games
>> don't really take much more disc space then a Regular game. A bit larger
>> Textures sure, but with new and better compression, that takes less space
>> and loads up faster. Put it this way, PC games that can be using Higher
>> Resolutions then a HDTV aren't on a Blu-Ray or HD DVD Disc! Your falling
>> for Sony Propaganda. HD video on the other hand requires a lot more
>> space then SD video. I guess if you want to fill up disc space with lots
>> of HD Video Cut scenes in a game, you would need space. I say who cares.
>> The Japanese may like that garbage but generally US gamers don't. I
>> always skip right past it if at all possible.
>>
>> No Company is going to fill most of 25 gig Blu-Ray disc with game Code!
>> It's not cost effective. Games are expensive enough to produce,
>> especially the more Popular games. The AAA games. Millions to make a
>> game. You MIGHT see a couple exclusive games on the PS3 that actually
>> make use of the space. Maybe Final Fantasy XIII. Again, a Japanese
>> game. The PS1 had games on more then 1 CD! What was wrong with that?
>> I have no problem if a game later down the road needs 2 DVD's! That's
>> about 18 Gigs of space right there.
>>
>
> The guys who did Uncharted said they used around 91% of the Blu-ray disc

Link please? that would be nearly 30gigs and I don't think that is correct,
or they have one hell of an amount of HD cutscenes in that game, something
that would make me NOT want to own that game. I am happy though that it got
good reviews, the gameplay looks cool and at least there is a lot to do in
that game.

>
>> The Reason the PS3 has a Blu-Ray drive is to get Blu-Ray drives out there
>> for HD movies. That's where the real money is to be made. Far more then
>> from gamers! Sony said in the past that people would buy the PS3 even if
>> there wasn't any games to play on it. Well currently there still isn't
>> anything worth playing on the PS3 for me.

Chris F
November 17th 07, 04:03 PM
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 09:14:49 +0000, Mark Johnson
> wrote:


>
>The guys who did Uncharted said they used around 91% of the Blu-ray disc
>
but was that all unique content, or did they use the same method as
Resistance and have duplicate data to speed loading times?
--

gamertag: Chrisflynnuk
http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk
Current eBay auctions: http://tinyurl.com/hutcb
360, DS, PS2 and Saturn Games For Auction.

mark johnson
November 17th 07, 04:10 PM
Tom wrote:
>
> "Mark Johnson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> JBDragon wrote:
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Nov 15, 4:03 pm, AirRaid > wrote:
>>>>> * CPU/GPU - Integrated chip with 16 x 5GHz processor cores, 32 x 2GHz
>>>>> graphics cores
>>>>> * Memory - 8GB GDDR8
>>>>> * Media - Dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive for backwards compatibility
>>>>> and movies
>>>>> * Storage - 4TB hard disk for online game (and movie) delivery
>>>>> * Built-in camera - for gesture-based control
>>>>> * Built-in microphone - for voice-recognised control
>>>>
>>>> Oh, come on! These numbers are WAY over what the next Xbox will have.
>>>> Look at the jump from th Xbox1 to the 360. It was nowhere nearly this
>>>> great. The Xbox1 went from an 8GB hard drive to a 20GB harddrive (even
>>>> on the Premium edition) in five years (a 2.5x increase). And these
>>>> guys think it will jump from 20GB to a massive *4 TB* over the next
>>>> five (a 200x increase)!?!?!? The Xbox went from 64MB of memory on the
>>>> Xbox1 to 512 on the 360 (an 8x increase). But they expect a 16x
>>>> increase over the next five years?!?!?
>>>>
>>>> And I expect a HD-DVD drive upgrade on the 360 *long* before 2011.
>>>> Developers are already pushing the limits of what a DVD can hold. If
>>>> they're still using a DVD drive in 2011, Sony will be mopping the
>>>> floor with them.
>>>
>>> MS already stated that the HD DVD drive was for movies only, not
>>> games!!! MS is not going to split the Gaming community to those with
>>> HD DVD drives, and those without. Doing that kind of thing on past
>>> consoles has never worked. Many games on the Xbox didn't even use
>>> half of a DVD disc. Also a lot of times the Sequel of a game with
>>> better graphics and just better all around was smaller in size then
>>> the original game! Some reason you think a game needs all this space
>>> when it doesn't. HD Games don't really take much more disc space
>>> then a Regular game. A bit larger Textures sure, but with new and
>>> better compression, that takes less space and loads up faster. Put
>>> it this way, PC games that can be using Higher Resolutions then a
>>> HDTV aren't on a Blu-Ray or HD DVD Disc! Your falling for Sony
>>> Propaganda. HD video on the other hand requires a lot more space
>>> then SD video. I guess if you want to fill up disc space with lots
>>> of HD Video Cut scenes in a game, you would need space. I say who
>>> cares. The Japanese may like that garbage but generally US gamers
>>> don't. I always skip right past it if at all possible.
>>>
>>> No Company is going to fill most of 25 gig Blu-Ray disc with game
>>> Code! It's not cost effective. Games are expensive enough to
>>> produce, especially the more Popular games. The AAA games. Millions
>>> to make a game. You MIGHT see a couple exclusive games on the PS3
>>> that actually make use of the space. Maybe Final Fantasy XIII.
>>> Again, a Japanese game. The PS1 had games on more then 1 CD! What
>>> was wrong with that? I have no problem if a game later down the road
>>> needs 2 DVD's! That's about 18 Gigs of space right there.
>>>
>>
>> The guys who did Uncharted said they used around 91% of the Blu-ray disc
>
> Link please? that would be nearly 30gigs and I don't think that is
> correct, or they have one hell of an amount of HD cutscenes in that
> game, something that would make me NOT want to own that game. I am happy
> though that it got good reviews, the gameplay looks cool and at least
> there is a lot to do in that game.
>

Here you go Tom :)

"In terms of Blu-Ray, we just couldn’t have made Uncharted without it;
with Uncharted we have almost filled it (91 percent). We're also using
the hard drive to pre-cache data from the Blu-Ray disc. That allows us
to stream up to 12 streams for sound, load level data super fast and
more importantly to stream textures constantly to guarantee high-res
quality on the screen."


http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/10/30/getting-technical-with-naughty-dog-co-president-christophe-balestra


>>
>>> The Reason the PS3 has a Blu-Ray drive is to get Blu-Ray drives out
>>> there for HD movies. That's where the real money is to be made. Far
>>> more then from gamers! Sony said in the past that people would buy
>>> the PS3 even if there wasn't any games to play on it. Well currently
>>> there still isn't anything worth playing on the PS3 for me.
>

Tom
November 17th 07, 04:26 PM
"Mark Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> Tom wrote:
>>
>> "Mark Johnson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> JBDragon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Nov 15, 4:03 pm, AirRaid > wrote:
>>>>>> * CPU/GPU - Integrated chip with 16 x 5GHz processor cores, 32 x 2GHz
>>>>>> graphics cores
>>>>>> * Memory - 8GB GDDR8
>>>>>> * Media - Dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive for backwards
>>>>>> compatibility
>>>>>> and movies
>>>>>> * Storage - 4TB hard disk for online game (and movie) delivery
>>>>>> * Built-in camera - for gesture-based control
>>>>>> * Built-in microphone - for voice-recognised control
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, come on! These numbers are WAY over what the next Xbox will have.
>>>>> Look at the jump from th Xbox1 to the 360. It was nowhere nearly this
>>>>> great. The Xbox1 went from an 8GB hard drive to a 20GB harddrive (even
>>>>> on the Premium edition) in five years (a 2.5x increase). And these
>>>>> guys think it will jump from 20GB to a massive *4 TB* over the next
>>>>> five (a 200x increase)!?!?!? The Xbox went from 64MB of memory on the
>>>>> Xbox1 to 512 on the 360 (an 8x increase). But they expect a 16x
>>>>> increase over the next five years?!?!?
>>>>>
>>>>> And I expect a HD-DVD drive upgrade on the 360 *long* before 2011.
>>>>> Developers are already pushing the limits of what a DVD can hold. If
>>>>> they're still using a DVD drive in 2011, Sony will be mopping the
>>>>> floor with them.
>>>>
>>>> MS already stated that the HD DVD drive was for movies only, not
>>>> games!!! MS is not going to split the Gaming community to those with HD
>>>> DVD drives, and those without. Doing that kind of thing on past
>>>> consoles has never worked. Many games on the Xbox didn't even use half
>>>> of a DVD disc. Also a lot of times the Sequel of a game with better
>>>> graphics and just better all around was smaller in size then the
>>>> original game! Some reason you think a game needs all this space when
>>>> it doesn't. HD Games don't really take much more disc space then a
>>>> Regular game. A bit larger Textures sure, but with new and better
>>>> compression, that takes less space and loads up faster. Put it this
>>>> way, PC games that can be using Higher Resolutions then a HDTV aren't
>>>> on a Blu-Ray or HD DVD Disc! Your falling for Sony Propaganda. HD
>>>> video on the other hand requires a lot more space then SD video. I
>>>> guess if you want to fill up disc space with lots of HD Video Cut
>>>> scenes in a game, you would need space. I say who cares. The Japanese
>>>> may like that garbage but generally US gamers don't. I always skip
>>>> right past it if at all possible.
>>>>
>>>> No Company is going to fill most of 25 gig Blu-Ray disc with game Code!
>>>> It's not cost effective. Games are expensive enough to produce,
>>>> especially the more Popular games. The AAA games. Millions to make a
>>>> game. You MIGHT see a couple exclusive games on the PS3 that actually
>>>> make use of the space. Maybe Final Fantasy XIII. Again, a Japanese
>>>> game. The PS1 had games on more then 1 CD! What was wrong with that?
>>>> I have no problem if a game later down the road needs 2 DVD's! That's
>>>> about 18 Gigs of space right there.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The guys who did Uncharted said they used around 91% of the Blu-ray disc
>>
>> Link please? that would be nearly 30gigs and I don't think that is
>> correct, or they have one hell of an amount of HD cutscenes in that game,
>> something that would make me NOT want to own that game. I am happy though
>> that it got good reviews, the gameplay looks cool and at least there is a
>> lot to do in that game.
>>
>
> Here you go Tom :)
>
> "In terms of Blu-Ray, we just couldn’t have made Uncharted without it;
> with Uncharted we have almost filled it (91 percent). We're also using the
> hard drive to pre-cache data from the Blu-Ray disc. That allows us to
> stream up to 12 streams for sound, load level data super fast and more
> importantly to stream textures constantly to guarantee high-res quality on
> the screen."
>
>
> http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/10/30/getting-technical-with-naughty-dog-co-president-christophe-balestra

Sounds like replicated data to me, and to help with load times, they have it
write much of the data to the HDD, obviously due to the slow read speed of
the Blu-ray drive. Note, it did not say that all of the data what all
different. So by this article, Blu-ray does nothing to improve HD content,
it simply holds more but needs to cache more as well as replicate more data
to allow for faster gameplay.

Oblivion did this on the PS3 version, or it would have been ungodly slow for
loading times.

RKRM
November 17th 07, 07:00 PM
"Tom" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mark Johnson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> JBDragon wrote:
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Nov 15, 4:03 pm, AirRaid > wrote:
>>>>> * CPU/GPU - Integrated chip with 16 x 5GHz processor cores, 32 x 2GHz
>>>>> graphics cores
>>>>> * Memory - 8GB GDDR8
>>>>> * Media - Dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive for backwards compatibility
>>>>> and movies
>>>>> * Storage - 4TB hard disk for online game (and movie) delivery
>>>>> * Built-in camera - for gesture-based control
>>>>> * Built-in microphone - for voice-recognised control
>>>>
>>>> Oh, come on! These numbers are WAY over what the next Xbox will have.
>>>> Look at the jump from th Xbox1 to the 360. It was nowhere nearly this
>>>> great. The Xbox1 went from an 8GB hard drive to a 20GB harddrive (even
>>>> on the Premium edition) in five years (a 2.5x increase). And these
>>>> guys think it will jump from 20GB to a massive *4 TB* over the next
>>>> five (a 200x increase)!?!?!? The Xbox went from 64MB of memory on the
>>>> Xbox1 to 512 on the 360 (an 8x increase). But they expect a 16x
>>>> increase over the next five years?!?!?
>>>>
>>>> And I expect a HD-DVD drive upgrade on the 360 *long* before 2011.
>>>> Developers are already pushing the limits of what a DVD can hold. If
>>>> they're still using a DVD drive in 2011, Sony will be mopping the
>>>> floor with them.
>>>
>>> MS already stated that the HD DVD drive was for movies only, not
>>> games!!! MS is not going to split the Gaming community to those with HD
>>> DVD drives, and those without. Doing that kind of thing on past
>>> consoles has never worked. Many games on the Xbox didn't even use half
>>> of a DVD disc. Also a lot of times the Sequel of a game with better
>>> graphics and just better all around was smaller in size then the
>>> original game! Some reason you think a game needs all this space when
>>> it doesn't. HD Games don't really take much more disc space then a
>>> Regular game. A bit larger Textures sure, but with new and better
>>> compression, that takes less space and loads up faster. Put it this
>>> way, PC games that can be using Higher Resolutions then a HDTV aren't on
>>> a Blu-Ray or HD DVD Disc! Your falling for Sony Propaganda. HD video
>>> on the other hand requires a lot more space then SD video. I guess if
>>> you want to fill up disc space with lots of HD Video Cut scenes in a
>>> game, you would need space. I say who cares. The Japanese may like that
>>> garbage but generally US gamers don't. I always skip right past it if
>>> at all possible.
>>>
>>> No Company is going to fill most of 25 gig Blu-Ray disc with game Code!
>>> It's not cost effective. Games are expensive enough to produce,
>>> especially the more Popular games. The AAA games. Millions to make a
>>> game. You MIGHT see a couple exclusive games on the PS3 that actually
>>> make use of the space. Maybe Final Fantasy XIII. Again, a Japanese
>>> game. The PS1 had games on more then 1 CD! What was wrong with that?
>>> I have no problem if a game later down the road needs 2 DVD's! That's
>>> about 18 Gigs of space right there.
>>>
>>
>> The guys who did Uncharted said they used around 91% of the Blu-ray disc
>
> Link please? that would be nearly 30gigs and I don't think that is
> correct, or they have one hell of an amount of HD cutscenes in that game,
> something that would make me NOT want to own that game. I am happy though
> that it got good reviews, the gameplay looks cool and at least there is a
> lot to do in that game.

I have it and it's great. Why so much space used? That's easy. It's got a
ton of unlockables in the form of "featurettes" that's gotta be a space hog
for sure. Plus I can pick from Dolby PLII, Stereo, DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital
5.1 and lossless 5.1 and 7.1. Geeze that takes some space.
>
>>
>>> The Reason the PS3 has a Blu-Ray drive is to get Blu-Ray drives out
>>> there for HD movies. That's where the real money is to be made. Far
>>> more then from gamers! Sony said in the past that people would buy the
>>> PS3 even if there wasn't any games to play on it. Well currently there
>>> still isn't anything worth playing on the PS3 for me.
>

RKRM
November 18th 07, 12:07 AM
"Ryan Hatfield" > wrote in message
...
> Tom wrote:
>>
>> "Mark Johnson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Tom wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Mark Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> JBDragon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On Nov 15, 4:03 pm, AirRaid > wrote:
>>>>>>>> * CPU/GPU - Integrated chip with 16 x 5GHz processor cores, 32 x
>>>>>>>> 2GHz
>>>>>>>> graphics cores
>>>>>>>> * Memory - 8GB GDDR8
>>>>>>>> * Media - Dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive for backwards
>>>>>>>> compatibility
>>>>>>>> and movies
>>>>>>>> * Storage - 4TB hard disk for online game (and movie) delivery
>>>>>>>> * Built-in camera - for gesture-based control
>>>>>>>> * Built-in microphone - for voice-recognised control
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, come on! These numbers are WAY over what the next Xbox will
>>>>>>> have.
>>>>>>> Look at the jump from th Xbox1 to the 360. It was nowhere nearly
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> great. The Xbox1 went from an 8GB hard drive to a 20GB harddrive
>>>>>>> (even
>>>>>>> on the Premium edition) in five years (a 2.5x increase). And these
>>>>>>> guys think it will jump from 20GB to a massive *4 TB* over the next
>>>>>>> five (a 200x increase)!?!?!? The Xbox went from 64MB of memory on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Xbox1 to 512 on the 360 (an 8x increase). But they expect a 16x
>>>>>>> increase over the next five years?!?!?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I expect a HD-DVD drive upgrade on the 360 *long* before 2011.
>>>>>>> Developers are already pushing the limits of what a DVD can hold. If
>>>>>>> they're still using a DVD drive in 2011, Sony will be mopping the
>>>>>>> floor with them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MS already stated that the HD DVD drive was for movies only, not
>>>>>> games!!! MS is not going to split the Gaming community to those with
>>>>>> HD DVD drives, and those without. Doing that kind of thing on past
>>>>>> consoles has never worked. Many games on the Xbox didn't even use
>>>>>> half of a DVD disc. Also a lot of times the Sequel of a game with
>>>>>> better graphics and just better all around was smaller in size then
>>>>>> the original game! Some reason you think a game needs all this space
>>>>>> when it doesn't. HD Games don't really take much more disc space
>>>>>> then a Regular game. A bit larger Textures sure, but with new and
>>>>>> better compression, that takes less space and loads up faster. Put
>>>>>> it this way, PC games that can be using Higher Resolutions then a
>>>>>> HDTV aren't on a Blu-Ray or HD DVD Disc! Your falling for Sony
>>>>>> Propaganda. HD video on the other hand requires a lot more space
>>>>>> then SD video. I guess if you want to fill up disc space with lots
>>>>>> of HD Video Cut scenes in a game, you would need space. I say who
>>>>>> cares. The Japanese may like that garbage but generally US gamers
>>>>>> don't. I always skip right past it if at all possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No Company is going to fill most of 25 gig Blu-Ray disc with game
>>>>>> Code! It's not cost effective. Games are expensive enough to
>>>>>> produce, especially the more Popular games. The AAA games. Millions
>>>>>> to make a game. You MIGHT see a couple exclusive games on the PS3
>>>>>> that actually make use of the space. Maybe Final Fantasy XIII.
>>>>>> Again, a Japanese game. The PS1 had games on more then 1 CD! What
>>>>>> was wrong with that? I have no problem if a game later down the road
>>>>>> needs 2 DVD's! That's about 18 Gigs of space right there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The guys who did Uncharted said they used around 91% of the Blu-ray
>>>>> disc
>>>>
>>>> Link please? that would be nearly 30gigs and I don't think that is
>>>> correct, or they have one hell of an amount of HD cutscenes in that
>>>> game, something that would make me NOT want to own that game. I am
>>>> happy though that it got good reviews, the gameplay looks cool and at
>>>> least there is a lot to do in that game.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Here you go Tom :)
>>>
>>> "In terms of Blu-Ray, we just couldn’t have made Uncharted without it;
>>> with Uncharted we have almost filled it (91 percent). We're also using
>>> the hard drive to pre-cache data from the Blu-Ray disc. That allows us
>>> to stream up to 12 streams for sound, load level data super fast and
>>> more importantly to stream textures constantly to guarantee high-res
>>> quality on the screen."
>>>
>>>
>>> http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/10/30/getting-technical-with-naughty-dog-co-president-christophe-balestra
>>
>> Sounds like replicated data to me, and to help with load times, they have
>> it write much of the data to the HDD, obviously due to the slow read
>> speed of the Blu-ray drive. Note, it did not say that all of the data
>> what all different. So by this article, Blu-ray does nothing to improve
>> HD content, it simply holds more but needs to cache more as well as
>> replicate more data to allow for faster gameplay.
>
> Do a google search for : duplicated data, blue-ray
> The top two links clearly state that it wasn't duplicated data. The bad
> part is that it has 102 minutes of HD video.

A bunch of that is behind the scenes documentaries
that are unlockable

Chris F
November 18th 07, 06:36 AM
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:07:50 -0800, "RKRM" >
wrote:

>> Do a google search for : duplicated data, blue-ray
>> The top two links clearly state that it wasn't duplicated data. The bad
>> part is that it has 102 minutes of HD video.
>
>A bunch of that is behind the scenes documentaries
>that are unlockable
>
yeah, but it makes the statement "we couldn't have made the game
without bluray" a bit of a lie.

they probably could have, they just wouldn't have been able to include
a ton of HD movie files too.

but hey, since when was PR spin ever truthful? :)
--

gamertag: Chrisflynnuk
http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk
Current eBay auctions: http://tinyurl.com/hutcb
360, DS, PS2 and Saturn Games For Auction.

JBDragon
November 18th 07, 09:19 AM
"Mark Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> JBDragon wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Nov 15, 4:03 pm, AirRaid > wrote:
>>>> * CPU/GPU - Integrated chip with 16 x 5GHz processor cores, 32 x 2GHz
>>>> graphics cores
>>>> * Memory - 8GB GDDR8
>>>> * Media - Dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive for backwards compatibility
>>>> and movies
>>>> * Storage - 4TB hard disk for online game (and movie) delivery
>>>> * Built-in camera - for gesture-based control
>>>> * Built-in microphone - for voice-recognised control
>>>
>>> Oh, come on! These numbers are WAY over what the next Xbox will have.
>>> Look at the jump from th Xbox1 to the 360. It was nowhere nearly this
>>> great. The Xbox1 went from an 8GB hard drive to a 20GB harddrive (even
>>> on the Premium edition) in five years (a 2.5x increase). And these
>>> guys think it will jump from 20GB to a massive *4 TB* over the next
>>> five (a 200x increase)!?!?!? The Xbox went from 64MB of memory on the
>>> Xbox1 to 512 on the 360 (an 8x increase). But they expect a 16x
>>> increase over the next five years?!?!?
>>>
>>> And I expect a HD-DVD drive upgrade on the 360 *long* before 2011.
>>> Developers are already pushing the limits of what a DVD can hold. If
>>> they're still using a DVD drive in 2011, Sony will be mopping the
>>> floor with them.
>>
>> MS already stated that the HD DVD drive was for movies only, not games!!!
>> MS is not going to split the Gaming community to those with HD DVD
>> drives, and those without. Doing that kind of thing on past consoles has
>> never worked. Many games on the Xbox didn't even use half of a DVD disc.
>> Also a lot of times the Sequel of a game with better graphics and just
>> better all around was smaller in size then the original game! Some
>> reason you think a game needs all this space when it doesn't. HD Games
>> don't really take much more disc space then a Regular game. A bit larger
>> Textures sure, but with new and better compression, that takes less space
>> and loads up faster. Put it this way, PC games that can be using Higher
>> Resolutions then a HDTV aren't on a Blu-Ray or HD DVD Disc! Your falling
>> for Sony Propaganda. HD video on the other hand requires a lot more
>> space then SD video. I guess if you want to fill up disc space with lots
>> of HD Video Cut scenes in a game, you would need space. I say who cares.
>> The Japanese may like that garbage but generally US gamers don't. I
>> always skip right past it if at all possible.
>>
>> No Company is going to fill most of 25 gig Blu-Ray disc with game Code!
>> It's not cost effective. Games are expensive enough to produce,
>> especially the more Popular games. The AAA games. Millions to make a
>> game. You MIGHT see a couple exclusive games on the PS3 that actually
>> make use of the space. Maybe Final Fantasy XIII. Again, a Japanese
>> game. The PS1 had games on more then 1 CD! What was wrong with that?
>> I have no problem if a game later down the road needs 2 DVD's! That's
>> about 18 Gigs of space right there.
>>
>
> The guys who did Uncharted said they used around 91% of the Blu-ray disc

Oh sure, you can fill up a Blu-Ray disc full of all kinds of Uncompressed
Textures. Lots of HD Video or Different versions for different Regions on
the same disc. When you have space to just waste, you end up wasting it.
Doesn't mean the game is going to be any better than a game taking 4 to 8
gigs of space. It's what you do with the space you have. Most PS3 games
would fit on a DVD. Sony of course doesn't allow this. It all has to be on
Blu-Ray to justify the Blu-Ray drive being there.

I see games running on the PC that can run in higher resolutions then a
HDTV, have extra features, and yet fits on 1 disc. Sorry to say, not a
single game for the PC is on a Blu-Ray or HD DVD disc. That's just Sony
Propaganda for Sony fanboys that for some unknown reason believe everything
Sony tells them. Even after all the lies Sony keeps getting its self caught.
What else does Sony have to do before you lose trust in them?



>> The Reason the PS3 has a Blu-Ray drive is to get Blu-Ray drives out there
>> for HD movies. That's where the real money is to be made. Far more then
>> from gamers! Sony said in the past that people would buy the PS3 even if
>> there wasn't any games to play on it. Well currently there still isn't
>> anything worth playing on the PS3 for me.

Tom
November 19th 07, 04:22 PM
"Ryan Hatfield" > wrote in message
...
> Tom wrote:
>>
>> "Mark Johnson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Tom wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Mark Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> JBDragon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On Nov 15, 4:03 pm, AirRaid > wrote:
>>>>>>>> * CPU/GPU - Integrated chip with 16 x 5GHz processor cores, 32 x
>>>>>>>> 2GHz
>>>>>>>> graphics cores
>>>>>>>> * Memory - 8GB GDDR8
>>>>>>>> * Media - Dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive for backwards
>>>>>>>> compatibility
>>>>>>>> and movies
>>>>>>>> * Storage - 4TB hard disk for online game (and movie) delivery
>>>>>>>> * Built-in camera - for gesture-based control
>>>>>>>> * Built-in microphone - for voice-recognised control
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, come on! These numbers are WAY over what the next Xbox will
>>>>>>> have.
>>>>>>> Look at the jump from th Xbox1 to the 360. It was nowhere nearly
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> great. The Xbox1 went from an 8GB hard drive to a 20GB harddrive
>>>>>>> (even
>>>>>>> on the Premium edition) in five years (a 2.5x increase). And these
>>>>>>> guys think it will jump from 20GB to a massive *4 TB* over the next
>>>>>>> five (a 200x increase)!?!?!? The Xbox went from 64MB of memory on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Xbox1 to 512 on the 360 (an 8x increase). But they expect a 16x
>>>>>>> increase over the next five years?!?!?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I expect a HD-DVD drive upgrade on the 360 *long* before 2011.
>>>>>>> Developers are already pushing the limits of what a DVD can hold. If
>>>>>>> they're still using a DVD drive in 2011, Sony will be mopping the
>>>>>>> floor with them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MS already stated that the HD DVD drive was for movies only, not
>>>>>> games!!! MS is not going to split the Gaming community to those with
>>>>>> HD DVD drives, and those without. Doing that kind of thing on past
>>>>>> consoles has never worked. Many games on the Xbox didn't even use
>>>>>> half of a DVD disc. Also a lot of times the Sequel of a game with
>>>>>> better graphics and just better all around was smaller in size then
>>>>>> the original game! Some reason you think a game needs all this space
>>>>>> when it doesn't. HD Games don't really take much more disc space
>>>>>> then a Regular game. A bit larger Textures sure, but with new and
>>>>>> better compression, that takes less space and loads up faster. Put
>>>>>> it this way, PC games that can be using Higher Resolutions then a
>>>>>> HDTV aren't on a Blu-Ray or HD DVD Disc! Your falling for Sony
>>>>>> Propaganda. HD video on the other hand requires a lot more space
>>>>>> then SD video. I guess if you want to fill up disc space with lots
>>>>>> of HD Video Cut scenes in a game, you would need space. I say who
>>>>>> cares. The Japanese may like that garbage but generally US gamers
>>>>>> don't. I always skip right past it if at all possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No Company is going to fill most of 25 gig Blu-Ray disc with game
>>>>>> Code! It's not cost effective. Games are expensive enough to
>>>>>> produce, especially the more Popular games. The AAA games. Millions
>>>>>> to make a game. You MIGHT see a couple exclusive games on the PS3
>>>>>> that actually make use of the space. Maybe Final Fantasy XIII.
>>>>>> Again, a Japanese game. The PS1 had games on more then 1 CD! What
>>>>>> was wrong with that? I have no problem if a game later down the road
>>>>>> needs 2 DVD's! That's about 18 Gigs of space right there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The guys who did Uncharted said they used around 91% of the Blu-ray
>>>>> disc
>>>>
>>>> Link please? that would be nearly 30gigs and I don't think that is
>>>> correct, or they have one hell of an amount of HD cutscenes in that
>>>> game, something that would make me NOT want to own that game. I am
>>>> happy though that it got good reviews, the gameplay looks cool and at
>>>> least there is a lot to do in that game.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Here you go Tom :)
>>>
>>> "In terms of Blu-Ray, we just couldn’t have made Uncharted without it;
>>> with Uncharted we have almost filled it (91 percent). We're also using
>>> the hard drive to pre-cache data from the Blu-Ray disc. That allows us
>>> to stream up to 12 streams for sound, load level data super fast and
>>> more importantly to stream textures constantly to guarantee high-res
>>> quality on the screen."
>>>
>>>
>>> http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/10/30/getting-technical-with-naughty-dog-co-president-christophe-balestra
>>
>> Sounds like replicated data to me, and to help with load times, they have
>> it write much of the data to the HDD, obviously due to the slow read
>> speed of the Blu-ray drive. Note, it did not say that all of the data
>> what all different. So by this article, Blu-ray does nothing to improve
>> HD content, it simply holds more but needs to cache more as well as
>> replicate more data to allow for faster gameplay.
>
> Do a google search for : duplicated data, blue-ray
> The top two links clearly state that it wasn't duplicated data. The bad
> part is that it has 102 minutes of HD video.

WTF, no wonder it uses so much space. What is it with PS3 games and the need
to add all of these cutscenes. I mean, I know you need some video to help
the story along, but that is out of hand, like Heavenly Sword was.

Chris F
November 19th 07, 04:37 PM
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:22:19 -0500, "Tom" > wrote:

>> Do a google search for : duplicated data, blue-ray
>> The top two links clearly state that it wasn't duplicated data. The bad
>> part is that it has 102 minutes of HD video.
>
>WTF, no wonder it uses so much space. What is it with PS3 games and the need
>to add all of these cutscenes. I mean, I know you need some video to help
>the story along, but that is out of hand, like Heavenly Sword was.

um, they aren't cutscenes, they're unlockable extras, as has been
stated elsewhere in the thread.

quite how their inclusion means the game couldn't have been done on
'normal' dvd media is beyond me though, talking heads in 1080p isn't
exactly what i'd call revolutionary content! ;)
--

gamertag: Chrisflynnuk
http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk
Current eBay auctions: http://tinyurl.com/hutcb
360, DS, PS2 and Saturn Games For Auction.

Doug Jacobs
November 19th 07, 09:47 PM
In alt.games.video.xbox RKRM > wrote:

> A bunch of that is behind the scenes documentaries
> that are unlockable

Oh geeze, talk about a waste of space. Does anyone watch the special
features on a game? I don't even bother with them most of the time for
movies - especially when the special features are LONGER than the original
feature!

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

Doug Jacobs
November 19th 07, 09:52 PM
In alt.games.video.xbox Tom > wrote:
> WTF, no wonder it uses so much space. What is it with PS3 games and the need
> to add all of these cutscenes. I mean, I know you need some video to help
> the story along, but that is out of hand, like Heavenly Sword was.

Sony gotta prove that Blu-Ray is NEEDED for games somehow, don't they?
Otherwise, everyone would quickly realize that Sony is full of.... Well,
that is to say this realization would have come a lot earlier.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

RKRM
November 20th 07, 02:35 AM
"Doug Jacobs" > wrote in message
...
> In alt.games.video.xbox RKRM > wrote:
>
>> A bunch of that is behind the scenes documentaries
>> that are unlockable
>
> Oh geeze, talk about a waste of space. Does anyone watch the special
> features on a game? I don't even bother with them most of the time for
> movies - especially when the special features are LONGER than the original
> feature!

Well I enjoy it at times. On Uncharted they actually have a 4 way split
screen showing the motion cap to game process. Besides I wasn't saying it
was great, though I think it is. I was merely pointing out what is using so
much space.
>
> --
> It's not broken. It's...advanced.

Chris F
November 20th 07, 09:22 AM
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:35:08 -0800, "RKRM" >
wrote:

>
>"Doug Jacobs" > wrote in message
...
>> In alt.games.video.xbox RKRM > wrote:
>>
>>> A bunch of that is behind the scenes documentaries
>>> that are unlockable
>>
>> Oh geeze, talk about a waste of space. Does anyone watch the special
>> features on a game? I don't even bother with them most of the time for
>> movies - especially when the special features are LONGER than the original
>> feature!
>
>Well I enjoy it at times. On Uncharted they actually have a 4 way split
>screen showing the motion cap to game process. Besides I wasn't saying it
>was great, though I think it is. I was merely pointing out what is using so
>much space.

yeah, but it makes their claims that they couldn't have made the game
without bluray pretty much a lie, as they obviously could have quite
easily, but they wanted to include a ton of video, which isn't part of
the game.
--

gamertag: Chrisflynnuk
http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk
Current eBay auctions: http://tinyurl.com/hutcb
360, DS, PS2 and Saturn Games For Auction.

mr deo
November 26th 07, 11:33 AM
"Chris F" > wrote in message
...


> >> The top two links clearly state that it wasn't duplicated data. The
bad
> >> part is that it has 102 minutes of HD video.
> >
> >A bunch of that is behind the scenes documentaries
> >that are unlockable
> >
> yeah, but it makes the statement "we couldn't have made the game
> without bluray" a bit of a lie.
>
> they probably could have, they just wouldn't have been able to include
> a ton of HD movie files too.
>
> but hey, since when was PR spin ever truthful? :)
> --
>

It's not a lie :/
They probably got paid for the PR spin.. sooo
Blu-Ray paid for (in part) the game development :)..
There's the truth Blu-Ray (because of them paying us to say good things, not
because of it's capacity) made it possible.