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View Full Version : Vista and latest NDVIDIA driver failure!!!


Gorby
October 24th 07, 04:53 PM
Guts, Horror, Hair, Vomit, Death!!!! I don't know how to express my FURY!

Background:
Motherboard : P5N-e SLI
CPU : Intel core2 duo E6600
Video card : Nvidia GeForce 8800GTS 640 MB Gddr3
RAM : 3 Gig 2x1 Gig Corsair
2x512K Corsair
2x SATA 2 320 Gig Western digital HDs
iCute Case with heaps of fans all over the place.

I am NOT OVERCLOCKING!

Whenever I boot the machine in SAFE mode, or have deleted the NVIDIA
drivers using the Device Manager, the PC boots.
When I install the NVIDIA drivers (163.69 or 162.22) I get problems.
What happens is:
The screen shows the BIOS screen, then flashes into Windows. I see the
green upright bars parading left to right. The screen then blanks, the
bling noise sounds (for the startup of Vista) but the screen is blank
(not even receiving a signal).

Why am I so furious!
This behavior originally happened ages ago. It appeared to be early
NVIDIA drivers. I was able to get NVIDIA 163.69 working happily. This is
great. New PC, should run like a bought one!!!

The latest issue, after 2 major other issues with the video card, or
software, is that the screen will not display anything.

The screen displays the BIOS boot screen and the Windows moving green
bars appear, but as soon as it actually boots into Windows (Vista Home
Premium) the screen looses signal.

What have I tried to do?

PC will boot OK into Windows if the NVIDIA driver for the GeForce
8800GTS is uninstalled. i.e. VGA driver.

I had this problem a week ago, so I sent the PC back to the vendor. They
were able to get the vidio driver working.

Everything was working, my wife shut down the machine one night. I came
in, in the morning, noticed that the blue lights inside the PC were
still on, so I pressed the power button for 4 seconds to turn off the
PC. When restated the screen would shut off on load of Windows Vista
(Home Premium). Arrgh!

I have tried reinstalling the correct video driver (163.69) without
success. Finally I tried to recover from a prior (working) recover
point. It appeared to be successful, however the screen remained black,
with no signa

What could be the problem?

Bill
October 24th 07, 10:32 PM
In article >,
says...
> Guts, Horror, Hair, Vomit, Death!!!! I don't know how to express my FURY!
>
> Background:
> Motherboard : P5N-e SLI
> CPU : Intel core2 duo E6600
> Video card : Nvidia GeForce 8800GTS 640 MB Gddr3
> RAM : 3 Gig 2x1 Gig Corsair
> 2x512K Corsair
> 2x SATA 2 320 Gig Western digital HDs
> iCute Case with heaps of fans all over the place.
>
> I am NOT OVERCLOCKING!
>
> Whenever I boot the machine in SAFE mode, or have deleted the NVIDIA
> drivers using the Device Manager, the PC boots.
> When I install the NVIDIA drivers (163.69 or 162.22) I get problems.
> What happens is:
> The screen shows the BIOS screen, then flashes into Windows. I see the
> green upright bars parading left to right. The screen then blanks, the
> bling noise sounds (for the startup of Vista) but the screen is blank
> (not even receiving a signal).
>
> Why am I so furious!
> This behavior originally happened ages ago. It appeared to be early
> NVIDIA drivers. I was able to get NVIDIA 163.69 working happily. This is
> great. New PC, should run like a bought one!!!
>
> The latest issue, after 2 major other issues with the video card, or
> software, is that the screen will not display anything.
>
> The screen displays the BIOS boot screen and the Windows moving green
> bars appear, but as soon as it actually boots into Windows (Vista Home
> Premium) the screen looses signal.
>
> What have I tried to do?
>
> PC will boot OK into Windows if the NVIDIA driver for the GeForce
> 8800GTS is uninstalled. i.e. VGA driver.
>
> I had this problem a week ago, so I sent the PC back to the vendor. They
> were able to get the vidio driver working.
>
> Everything was working, my wife shut down the machine one night. I came
> in, in the morning, noticed that the blue lights inside the PC were
> still on, so I pressed the power button for 4 seconds to turn off the
> PC. When restated the screen would shut off on load of Windows Vista
> (Home Premium). Arrgh!
>
> I have tried reinstalling the correct video driver (163.69) without
> success. Finally I tried to recover from a prior (working) recover
> point. It appeared to be successful, however the screen remained black,
> with no signa
>
> What could be the problem?
>

A 'Live' cd/dvd is a cd/dvd that will boot a live/usable operating
system on a pc without using a hard drive. What I would do is get a
'Live' cd/dvd and boot the pc. If your problem is still there it's a
hardware problem. If it isn't it's a software problem.

http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php

Report back when you've figured out whether it's a hardware problem
or a software problem. Consider upgrading to Windows XP Pro.

Bill

Gorby
October 25th 07, 03:54 AM
Bill wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>> Guts, Horror, Hair, Vomit, Death!!!! I don't know how to express my FURY!
>>
>> Background:
>> Motherboard : P5N-e SLI
>> CPU : Intel core2 duo E6600
>> Video card : Nvidia GeForce 8800GTS 640 MB Gddr3
>> RAM : 3 Gig 2x1 Gig Corsair
>> 2x512K Corsair
>> 2x SATA 2 320 Gig Western digital HDs
>> iCute Case with heaps of fans all over the place.
>>
>> I am NOT OVERCLOCKING!
>>
>> Whenever I boot the machine in SAFE mode, or have deleted the NVIDIA
>> drivers using the Device Manager, the PC boots.
>> When I install the NVIDIA drivers (163.69 or 162.22) I get problems.
>> What happens is:
>> The screen shows the BIOS screen, then flashes into Windows. I see the
>> green upright bars parading left to right. The screen then blanks, the
>> bling noise sounds (for the startup of Vista) but the screen is blank
>> (not even receiving a signal).
>>
>> Why am I so furious!
>> This behavior originally happened ages ago. It appeared to be early
>> NVIDIA drivers. I was able to get NVIDIA 163.69 working happily. This is
>> great. New PC, should run like a bought one!!!
>>
>> The latest issue, after 2 major other issues with the video card, or
>> software, is that the screen will not display anything.
>>
>> The screen displays the BIOS boot screen and the Windows moving green
>> bars appear, but as soon as it actually boots into Windows (Vista Home
>> Premium) the screen looses signal.
>>
>> What have I tried to do?
>>
>> PC will boot OK into Windows if the NVIDIA driver for the GeForce
>> 8800GTS is uninstalled. i.e. VGA driver.
>>
>> I had this problem a week ago, so I sent the PC back to the vendor. They
>> were able to get the vidio driver working.
>>
>> Everything was working, my wife shut down the machine one night. I came
>> in, in the morning, noticed that the blue lights inside the PC were
>> still on, so I pressed the power button for 4 seconds to turn off the
>> PC. When restated the screen would shut off on load of Windows Vista
>> (Home Premium). Arrgh!
>>
>> I have tried reinstalling the correct video driver (163.69) without
>> success. Finally I tried to recover from a prior (working) recover
>> point. It appeared to be successful, however the screen remained black,
>> with no signa
>>
>> What could be the problem?
>>
>
> A 'Live' cd/dvd is a cd/dvd that will boot a live/usable operating
> system on a pc without using a hard drive. What I would do is get a
> 'Live' cd/dvd and boot the pc. If your problem is still there it's a
> hardware problem. If it isn't it's a software problem.
>
> http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
>
> Report back when you've figured out whether it's a hardware problem
> or a software problem. Consider upgrading to Windows XP Pro.
>
> Bill
>
Aha! Brilliant idea! Thanks very much!
Earlier in the week, when the PC was working OK, I had tried out the
Ubuntu 7.10 live CD. It worked OK.
Now this morning I tried again, and it would only come up in reduced
graphics mode!
It seems I must have been having an intermittent hardware error, that
now has become "hard". I'm taking this card back to the shop for
warranty replacement!

Thank you again! As you may have noticed from the earlier post, I was
about to tear my hair out.

Bill
October 25th 07, 06:00 AM
In article >,
says...
> Bill wrote:
> > In article >,
> > says...
> >> Guts, Horror, Hair, Vomit, Death!!!! I don't know how to express my FURY!
> >>
> >> Background:
> >> Motherboard : P5N-e SLI
> >> CPU : Intel core2 duo E6600
> >> Video card : Nvidia GeForce 8800GTS 640 MB Gddr3
> >> RAM : 3 Gig 2x1 Gig Corsair
> >> 2x512K Corsair
> >> 2x SATA 2 320 Gig Western digital HDs
> >> iCute Case with heaps of fans all over the place.
> >>
> >> I am NOT OVERCLOCKING!
> >>
> >> Whenever I boot the machine in SAFE mode, or have deleted the NVIDIA
> >> drivers using the Device Manager, the PC boots.
> >> When I install the NVIDIA drivers (163.69 or 162.22) I get problems.
> >> What happens is:
> >> The screen shows the BIOS screen, then flashes into Windows. I see the
> >> green upright bars parading left to right. The screen then blanks, the
> >> bling noise sounds (for the startup of Vista) but the screen is blank
> >> (not even receiving a signal).
> >>
> >> Why am I so furious!
> >> This behavior originally happened ages ago. It appeared to be early
> >> NVIDIA drivers. I was able to get NVIDIA 163.69 working happily. This is
> >> great. New PC, should run like a bought one!!!
> >>
> >> The latest issue, after 2 major other issues with the video card, or
> >> software, is that the screen will not display anything.
> >>
> >> The screen displays the BIOS boot screen and the Windows moving green
> >> bars appear, but as soon as it actually boots into Windows (Vista Home
> >> Premium) the screen looses signal.
> >>
> >> What have I tried to do?
> >>
> >> PC will boot OK into Windows if the NVIDIA driver for the GeForce
> >> 8800GTS is uninstalled. i.e. VGA driver.
> >>
> >> I had this problem a week ago, so I sent the PC back to the vendor. They
> >> were able to get the vidio driver working.
> >>
> >> Everything was working, my wife shut down the machine one night. I came
> >> in, in the morning, noticed that the blue lights inside the PC were
> >> still on, so I pressed the power button for 4 seconds to turn off the
> >> PC. When restated the screen would shut off on load of Windows Vista
> >> (Home Premium). Arrgh!
> >>
> >> I have tried reinstalling the correct video driver (163.69) without
> >> success. Finally I tried to recover from a prior (working) recover
> >> point. It appeared to be successful, however the screen remained black,
> >> with no signa
> >>
> >> What could be the problem?
> >>
> >
> > A 'Live' cd/dvd is a cd/dvd that will boot a live/usable operating
> > system on a pc without using a hard drive. What I would do is get a
> > 'Live' cd/dvd and boot the pc. If your problem is still there it's a
> > hardware problem. If it isn't it's a software problem.
> >
> > http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
> >
> > Report back when you've figured out whether it's a hardware problem
> > or a software problem. Consider upgrading to Windows XP Pro.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> Aha! Brilliant idea! Thanks very much!
> Earlier in the week, when the PC was working OK, I had tried out the
> Ubuntu 7.10 live CD. It worked OK.
> Now this morning I tried again, and it would only come up in reduced
> graphics mode!
> It seems I must have been having an intermittent hardware error, that
> now has become "hard". I'm taking this card back to the shop for
> warranty replacement!
>
> Thank you again! As you may have noticed from the earlier post, I was
> about to tear my hair out.
>

Tsk, Tsk. Nature will do that for you soon enough. I wouldn't rule
out a power supply problem just yet.

Bill

Gorby
October 26th 07, 09:31 AM
Bill wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>> Bill wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> says...
>>>> Guts, Horror, Hair, Vomit, Death!!!! I don't know how to express my FURY!
>>>>
>>>> Background:
>>>> Motherboard : P5N-e SLI
>>>> CPU : Intel core2 duo E6600
>>>> Video card : Nvidia GeForce 8800GTS 640 MB Gddr3
>>>> RAM : 3 Gig 2x1 Gig Corsair
>>>> 2x512K Corsair
>>>> 2x SATA 2 320 Gig Western digital HDs
>>>> iCute Case with heaps of fans all over the place.
>>>>
>>>> I am NOT OVERCLOCKING!
>>>>
>>>> Whenever I boot the machine in SAFE mode, or have deleted the NVIDIA
>>>> drivers using the Device Manager, the PC boots.
>>>> When I install the NVIDIA drivers (163.69 or 162.22) I get problems.
>>>> What happens is:
>>>> The screen shows the BIOS screen, then flashes into Windows. I see the
>>>> green upright bars parading left to right. The screen then blanks, the
>>>> bling noise sounds (for the startup of Vista) but the screen is blank
>>>> (not even receiving a signal).
>>>>
>>>> Why am I so furious!
>>>> This behavior originally happened ages ago. It appeared to be early
>>>> NVIDIA drivers. I was able to get NVIDIA 163.69 working happily. This is
>>>> great. New PC, should run like a bought one!!!
>>>>
>>>> The latest issue, after 2 major other issues with the video card, or
>>>> software, is that the screen will not display anything.
>>>>
>>>> The screen displays the BIOS boot screen and the Windows moving green
>>>> bars appear, but as soon as it actually boots into Windows (Vista Home
>>>> Premium) the screen looses signal.
>>>>
>>>> What have I tried to do?
>>>>
>>>> PC will boot OK into Windows if the NVIDIA driver for the GeForce
>>>> 8800GTS is uninstalled. i.e. VGA driver.
>>>>
>>>> I had this problem a week ago, so I sent the PC back to the vendor. They
>>>> were able to get the vidio driver working.
>>>>
>>>> Everything was working, my wife shut down the machine one night. I came
>>>> in, in the morning, noticed that the blue lights inside the PC were
>>>> still on, so I pressed the power button for 4 seconds to turn off the
>>>> PC. When restated the screen would shut off on load of Windows Vista
>>>> (Home Premium). Arrgh!
>>>>
>>>> I have tried reinstalling the correct video driver (163.69) without
>>>> success. Finally I tried to recover from a prior (working) recover
>>>> point. It appeared to be successful, however the screen remained black,
>>>> with no signa
>>>>
>>>> What could be the problem?
>>>>
>>> A 'Live' cd/dvd is a cd/dvd that will boot a live/usable operating
>>> system on a pc without using a hard drive. What I would do is get a
>>> 'Live' cd/dvd and boot the pc. If your problem is still there it's a
>>> hardware problem. If it isn't it's a software problem.
>>>
>>> http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
>>>
>>> Report back when you've figured out whether it's a hardware problem
>>> or a software problem. Consider upgrading to Windows XP Pro.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>> Aha! Brilliant idea! Thanks very much!
>> Earlier in the week, when the PC was working OK, I had tried out the
>> Ubuntu 7.10 live CD. It worked OK.
>> Now this morning I tried again, and it would only come up in reduced
>> graphics mode!
>> It seems I must have been having an intermittent hardware error, that
>> now has become "hard". I'm taking this card back to the shop for
>> warranty replacement!
>>
>> Thank you again! As you may have noticed from the earlier post, I was
>> about to tear my hair out.
>>
>
> Tsk, Tsk. Nature will do that for you soon enough. I wouldn't rule
> out a power supply problem just yet.
>
> Bill
The plot thickens! I took the PC back to the shop. They swapped the
video card for some generic card from ATi. I came home, cranked it up,
and... exactly the same! As soon as the PC wants to go to 1680x1050
resolution, it sends "no signal" to the monitor.
I have been a very good customer to the PC shop, so he changed the
motherboard to an upmarket Gigabyte board (charging me the difference
between the old board and the new - I'm OK with that)

I got it home about 30 minutes ago. Plugged it in, cranked it up...
still the same. Man! What is it, then!

OK! One of the other PC's in the house has Dell 1740FTP monitor. I
swapped that over, restarted the PC, and it boots OK. Hang on... it
doesn't use the Aero eye candy. I've got the screen running at its
native resolution (1280x1024 - non widescreen).
I then tried the widescreen monitor on the older XP machine... works fine!

So I'm at a loss again. You said in the previous post it might be a
power supply. The PC has a Themaltake TR2 - 550W power supply. What do
you think???

Bill
October 26th 07, 11:51 AM
In article >,
says...
<snip>

> >
> > Bill
> The plot thickens! I took the PC back to the shop. They swapped the
> video card for some generic card from ATi. I came home, cranked it up,
> and... exactly the same! As soon as the PC wants to go to 1680x1050
> resolution, it sends "no signal" to the monitor.
> I have been a very good customer to the PC shop, so he changed the
> motherboard to an upmarket Gigabyte board (charging me the difference
> between the old board and the new - I'm OK with that)
>
> I got it home about 30 minutes ago. Plugged it in, cranked it up...
> still the same. Man! What is it, then!
>
> OK! One of the other PC's in the house has Dell 1740FTP monitor. I
> swapped that over, restarted the PC, and it boots OK. Hang on... it
> doesn't use the Aero eye candy. I've got the screen running at its
> native resolution (1280x1024 - non widescreen).
> I then tried the widescreen monitor on the older XP machine... works fine!
>
> So I'm at a loss again. You said in the previous post it might be a
> power supply. The PC has a Themaltake TR2 - 550W power supply. What do
> you think???
>

While I think Thermaltake is one of the better power supplies on the
market, it could still be failing power supply. I see that that P/S
uses modular cabling. Make sure the cables on the P/S side are firmly
seated and that there aren't any poor connections due to pushed back
pins. If that doesn't help, see if you can borrow another P/S from
somewhere and try it.

Bill

Gorby
October 28th 07, 02:00 PM
Bill wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
> <snip>
>
>>> Bill
>> The plot thickens! I took the PC back to the shop. They swapped the
>> video card for some generic card from ATi. I came home, cranked it up,
>> and... exactly the same! As soon as the PC wants to go to 1680x1050
>> resolution, it sends "no signal" to the monitor.
>> I have been a very good customer to the PC shop, so he changed the
>> motherboard to an upmarket Gigabyte board (charging me the difference
>> between the old board and the new - I'm OK with that)
>>
>> I got it home about 30 minutes ago. Plugged it in, cranked it up...
>> still the same. Man! What is it, then!
>>
>> OK! One of the other PC's in the house has Dell 1740FTP monitor. I
>> swapped that over, restarted the PC, and it boots OK. Hang on... it
>> doesn't use the Aero eye candy. I've got the screen running at its
>> native resolution (1280x1024 - non widescreen).
>> I then tried the widescreen monitor on the older XP machine... works fine!
>>
>> So I'm at a loss again. You said in the previous post it might be a
>> power supply. The PC has a Themaltake TR2 - 550W power supply. What do
>> you think???
>>
>
> While I think Thermaltake is one of the better power supplies on the
> market, it could still be failing power supply. I see that that P/S
> uses modular cabling. Make sure the cables on the P/S side are firmly
> seated and that there aren't any poor connections due to pushed back
> pins. If that doesn't help, see if you can borrow another P/S from
> somewhere and try it.
>
> Bill
Hmmm! I spent today reloading everything onto the PC. Yes I did make
sure the power connectors were seated correctly onto the motherboard.
I reformatted the primary hard drive, reloaded Vista, motherboard
drivers and NVIDIA 163.69 drivers. Everything seems to be working correctly.
Thanks for your help, but it seems I will have to wait for the problem
to re-occur (if ever).
cheers
Gordon

Bill
October 28th 07, 07:05 PM
In article >,
says...
> Bill wrote:
> > In article >,
> > says...
> > <snip>
> >
> >>> Bill
> >> The plot thickens! I took the PC back to the shop. They swapped the
> >> video card for some generic card from ATi. I came home, cranked it up,
> >> and... exactly the same! As soon as the PC wants to go to 1680x1050
> >> resolution, it sends "no signal" to the monitor.
> >> I have been a very good customer to the PC shop, so he changed the
> >> motherboard to an upmarket Gigabyte board (charging me the difference
> >> between the old board and the new - I'm OK with that)
> >>
> >> I got it home about 30 minutes ago. Plugged it in, cranked it up...
> >> still the same. Man! What is it, then!
> >>
> >> OK! One of the other PC's in the house has Dell 1740FTP monitor. I
> >> swapped that over, restarted the PC, and it boots OK. Hang on... it
> >> doesn't use the Aero eye candy. I've got the screen running at its
> >> native resolution (1280x1024 - non widescreen).
> >> I then tried the widescreen monitor on the older XP machine... works fine!
> >>
> >> So I'm at a loss again. You said in the previous post it might be a
> >> power supply. The PC has a Themaltake TR2 - 550W power supply. What do
> >> you think???
> >>
> >
> > While I think Thermaltake is one of the better power supplies on the
> > market, it could still be failing power supply. I see that that P/S
> > uses modular cabling. Make sure the cables on the P/S side are firmly
> > seated and that there aren't any poor connections due to pushed back
> > pins. If that doesn't help, see if you can borrow another P/S from
> > somewhere and try it.
> >
> > Bill
> Hmmm! I spent today reloading everything onto the PC. Yes I did make
> sure the power connectors were seated correctly onto the motherboard.

Not just the motherboard side. There are connectors on the power
supply side of the cables too. Don't forget to look for pushed back
pins.

> I reformatted the primary hard drive, reloaded Vista, motherboard
> drivers and NVIDIA 163.69 drivers. Everything seems to be working correctly.
> Thanks for your help, but it seems I will have to wait for the problem
> to re-occur (if ever).
> cheers
> Gordon
>

Bill

Phil Weldon
October 28th 07, 08:38 PM
'Bill' wrote:
| Not just the motherboard side. There are connectors on the power
| supply side of the cables too. Don't forget to look for pushed back
| pins
_____

Pushed-back-pins - that's a good check to suggest - I've never had a power
supply fail, but pushed back connector terminals will sneak up and bite you,
especially if you jumped to the conclusion that the problem is power supply
failure B^)

Though I do think that the connectors supplied with modular power supplies
are much better than the older Molex items.

Phil Weldon

"Bill" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| In article >,
| says...
..
..
| > Hmmm! I spent today reloading everything onto the PC. Yes I did make
| > sure the power connectors were seated correctly onto the motherboard.
|
| Not just the motherboard side. There are connectors on the power
| supply side of the cables too. Don't forget to look for pushed back
| pins.
|
| > I reformatted the primary hard drive, reloaded Vista, motherboard
| > drivers and NVIDIA 163.69 drivers. Everything seems to be working
correctly.
| > Thanks for your help, but it seems I will have to wait for the problem
| > to re-occur (if ever).
| > cheers
| > Gordon
| >
|
| Bill

Bill
October 28th 07, 10:49 PM
In article >,
says...
> 'Bill' wrote:
> | Not just the motherboard side. There are connectors on the power
> | supply side of the cables too. Don't forget to look for pushed back
> | pins
> _____
>
> Pushed-back-pins - that's a good check to suggest - I've never had a power
> supply fail, but pushed back connector terminals will sneak up and bite you,
> especially if you jumped to the conclusion that the problem is power supply
> failure B^)
>
> Though I do think that the connectors supplied with modular power supplies
> are much better than the older Molex items.
>
> Phil Weldon
>

When you get bit on the butt, it doesn't matter how old the teeth
are.

Bill

Gorby
October 29th 07, 01:42 PM
Bill wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>> 'Bill' wrote:
>> | Not just the motherboard side. There are connectors on the power
>> | supply side of the cables too. Don't forget to look for pushed back
>> | pins
>> _____
>>
>> Pushed-back-pins - that's a good check to suggest - I've never had a power
>> supply fail, but pushed back connector terminals will sneak up and bite you,
>> especially if you jumped to the conclusion that the problem is power supply
>> failure B^)
>>
>> Though I do think that the connectors supplied with modular power supplies
>> are much better than the older Molex items.
>>
>> Phil Weldon
>>
>
> When you get bit on the butt, it doesn't matter how old the teeth
> are.
>
> Bill
Actually, good point! I'm assuming you mean that the connectors inside
the white plastic, push together, power er, er 'connectors' are what you
are talking about.

Yes! I am one of those people who were computer operators of
"mainframes" in the 70's. I even remember opening the side of one box,
and walking along flicking my thumb along the boards inside to make sure
they were seated correctly. The console was a teletype, with paper
rolls. More amazingly (well I think anyway) was that it had a speaker in
the console unit that was connected to the CPU. The experienced
operators could tell how far a job was going, simply by the sounds
coming from the speaker. One of the Sysprogs wrote a program that would
play "Merry Christmas".

Back to the future...
Things on this PC seem to be going OK. There is one case of many
connections. That being the connections to the large case fan on the
side. It looks very pretty, with a half dozen blue LED lights playing
onto the clear plastic fans.

Yours, in dotage,
Gordon