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AirRaid[_4_]
October 5th 07, 06:25 PM
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/03/nvidia-admits-defeat-g92-vs

Nvidia admits defeat in G92 vs. RV670 battle

3DMark wars

By Theo Valich: Friday, 05 October 2007, 9:39 AM

IN THE FAR EAST, 3DMark is everything. You can say whatever you want
about canned benchmarks, but nobody can dodge the influence of the
3DMark06 benchmark.

It's been the same story with previous iterations of graphics cards,
and the same will happen with the next, DX10-only workout. When that
is coming out, only Futuremark knows.

But something very significant happened in this round of the war, at
least according to our highly-ranked sources.

This time around, Nvidia did not tout its G92_200 series as the
fastest thing since Niki Lauda, but rather admitted defeat in this all-
popular synthetic benchmark at the hands of a yet-unnamed Radeon HD
part.

A reference board from Nvidia is capable of scoring 10,800 3DMarks,
while a reference board from ATI will score around 11,400 3DMarks, or
a clear 550-600 points advantage.

This is a massive leap over previous-gen parts. The current
generation's high-end performer from Nvidia, the 8800Ultra scores
12,500 points. Seeing a mainstream, $250 part scoring barely a
thousand less than a current $599 card only makes us wonder how those
owners that coughed up so much will feel.

When it comes to ATI's part, you know what to expect in this synthetic
benchmark - outscoring Radeon HD 2900XT is a default mode of operation
for RV670XT. At least in lower resolutions.

Partners are less than happy with Nvidia board politics as well, but
this is a subject of another story.

AirRaid[_4_]
October 5th 07, 06:29 PM
At last, some good news from AMD

Jeremy Laird
04 Oct 2007 12:48 GMT

It's all been a bit doom and gloom at AMD of late. Both its big
launches in 2007, the Radeon HD 2900 series graphics chips and its new
Barcelona quad-core CPU architecture, have flirted with outright flop.

But if recent rumours of a killer new midrange graphics chip from
graphics division ATI are true, there's hope yet for AMD.

As we reported earlier today, the new chip (codenamed RV670) promises
to be more or less as powerful as ATI's existing flagship, the Radeon
HD 2900 XT. Crucially, all 320 stream processors from the 2900 XT are
present and accounted for. But thanks to the use of a much finer 55nm
production process (the 2900 XT is an 80nm design), the new chip is
much smaller and therefore much, much cheaper.

The use of a simpler 256-bit memory controller is apparently to only
concession ATI has made. But this in turn makes for a less complex PCB
and in turn adds further to the video chipsets overall affordability.


In fact, that production process could allow ATI to actually clock the
chip higher than the 742MHz of 2900 XT. Figures north of 800MHz are
being mooted. If so, and if the final video boards come in under 200
as expected, well, RV670 will be the funkiest affordable graphics chip
by far.

New weapon of choice

Indeed, the card will almost definitely be the new weapon of choice
for value-conscious gamers. Existing affordable midrange DirectX 10
video boards like the NVIDIA GeForce 8600 or ATI's own Radeon HD 2600
simply aren't cutting it in the latest DirectX 10 games such as
BioShock. They only offer around one third the rendering oomph of a
high end video card.

What's more, unless I'm sorely mistaken, NVIDIA has nothing in its
upcoming roadmap to match RV670 for both price and power. OK, NVIDIA
does have a new midrange part of its own, probably to be sold under
the GeForce 8800 GT moniker.

But word is that board is somewhat cut down rather than a simple die
shrink of the full fat GeForce 8800 GPU offering around two thirds the
performance. In other words, AMD should have an outright winner on its
hands.

It's also worth noting that RV670 looks extremely suitable for use in
notebooks. Currently, neither ATI nor NVIDIA has managed to squeeze a
high performance DX10 chip into a laptop PC.

Actually, RV670 looks so good, you have to wonder what role will be
left for the bruiser that is the Radeon HD 2900 XT. It's a big old
beast on 80nm, pricey to make and extremely power hungry. If RV670
really is essentially a die shrink minus the 512-bit memory bus, then
the existing 2900 XT will only offer an advantage when paired with a
monitor running silly multi-megapixel resolutions.


http://www.tech.co.uk/performance-pc/general/blogs/2007/10/04/at-last-some-good-news-from-amd

John Lewis
October 5th 07, 09:27 PM
On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:25:32 -0700, AirRaid >
wrote:

>http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/03/nvidia-admits-defeat=
>-g92-vs
>
>Nvidia admits defeat in G92 vs. RV670 battle
>
>3DMark wars
>
>By Theo Valich: Friday, 05 October 2007, 9:39 AM
>
>IN THE FAR EAST, 3DMark is everything. You can say whatever you want
>about canned benchmarks, but nobody can dodge the influence of the
>3DMark06 benchmark.
>
>It's been the same story with previous iterations of graphics cards,
>and the same will happen with the next, DX10-only workout. When that
>is coming out, only Futuremark knows.
>
>But something very significant happened in this round of the war, at
>least according to our highly-ranked sources.
>
>This time around, Nvidia did not tout its G92_200 series as the
>fastest thing since Niki Lauda, but rather admitted defeat in this all-
>popular synthetic benchmark at the hands of a yet-unnamed Radeon HD
>part.
>

nVidia is phasing out the 8800GTS and filling the hole at a much
lower, but far higher-volume and with far greater total profits..
Phasing out the G80 has been a top priority for at least the last
year. Too large, low-yield, low profit-margin.

>A reference board from Nvidia is capable of scoring 10,800 3DMarks,
>while a reference board from ATI will score around 11,400 3DMarks, or
>a clear 550-600 points advantage.
>
>This is a massive leap over previous-gen parts. The current
>generation's high-end performer from Nvidia, the 8800Ultra scores
>12,500 points. Seeing a mainstream, $250 part scoring barely a
>thousand less than a current $599 card only makes us wonder how those
>owners that coughed up so much will feel.
>

Er, owners of 8800GTX cards purchased at $599, have had them for
almost a year.... I'm sure that they will not be too upsaet. Their
current cards will tide them over until nV's 2nd-generation Dx10
offerings in development for at least the past year finally appear.

>When it comes to ATI's part, you know what to expect in this synthetic
>benchmark - outscoring Radeon HD 2900XT is a default mode of operation
>for RV670XT. At least in lower resolutions.
>
>Partners are less than happy with Nvidia board politics as well, but
>this is a subject of another story. =B5
>

Our favorite ATi troll has again spoken.....

And the expected volume ship date is when ??
( And if 3-6 months behind nV's G92, the ATi offering will get
swamped by nV's 2nd-generation Dx10 parts. Always a step behind... now
increasing to two steps behind in high-performance GPU's, since AMD
has no money to invest in bleeding-edge graphics without jeopardizing
their core business in their life-blood struggle with Intel )

And the list price of the ATi offering is ??

John Lewis

Wax[_2_]
October 6th 07, 05:10 AM
"John Lewis" > wrote in message
...
>
> And the list price of the ATi offering is ??


I take it that you don't like ATI.

Tell me what would happen if they disappeared and Nvidia emerged as the only
major graphics card maker out there. Personally, I see higher prices, less
driver support, and longer periods of time between new products when a
company is not challenged by another company.

Just something to think about.

Benjamin Gawert
October 6th 07, 08:49 AM
* AirRaid:

> http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/03/nvidia-admits-defeat-g92-vs
>
> Nvidia admits defeat in G92 vs. RV670 battle

Yeah, right. Citing TheInquirer says much about your credibility. You
obviously blindly believe in any BS that's sold to you.

Benjamin

Shawk
October 6th 07, 11:03 AM
Wax wrote:
> "John Lewis" > wrote in message
> ...
>> And the list price of the ATi offering is ??
>
>
> I take it that you don't like ATI.
>
> Tell me what would happen if they disappeared and Nvidia emerged as the only
> major graphics card maker out there. Personally, I see higher prices, less
> driver support, and longer periods of time between new products when a
> company is not challenged by another company.
>
> Just something to think about.


John owns shares in NVidia. It hasn't led to him being a balanced
individual

Rob
October 6th 07, 12:08 PM
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:03:36 +0100, Shawk >
wrote:

>Wax wrote:
>> "John Lewis" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> And the list price of the ATi offering is ??
>>
>>
>> I take it that you don't like ATI.
>>
>> Tell me what would happen if they disappeared and Nvidia emerged as the only
>> major graphics card maker out there. Personally, I see higher prices, less
>> driver support, and longer periods of time between new products when a
>> company is not challenged by another company.
>>
>> Just something to think about.
>
>
>John owns shares in NVidia. It hasn't led to him being a balanced
>individual

I always have a good old "lol" or three when I see John accusing other
posters of being "fanbois".

I don't for one moment doubt his technical acumen. But it's blatantly
obvious that objectivity isn't one of his strong points.

--
Rob

gamefixer
October 6th 07, 04:03 PM
On Oct 5, 11:25 am, AirRaid > wrote:
> http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/03/nvidia-admits-...
>
> Nvidia admits defeat in G92 vs. RV670 battle
>
> 3DMark wars
>
> By Theo Valich: Friday, 05 October 2007, 9:39 AM
>
> IN THE FAR EAST, 3DMark is everything. You can say whatever you want
> about canned benchmarks, but nobody can dodge the influence of the
> 3DMark06 benchmark.
>
> It's been the same story with previous iterations of graphics cards,
> and the same will happen with the next, DX10-only workout. When that
> is coming out, only Futuremark knows.
>
> But something very significant happened in this round of the war, at
> least according to our highly-ranked sources.
>
> This time around, Nvidia did not tout its G92_200 series as the
> fastest thing since Niki Lauda, but rather admitted defeat in this all-
> popular synthetic benchmark at the hands of a yet-unnamed Radeon HD
> part.
>
> A reference board from Nvidia is capable of scoring 10,800 3DMarks,
> while a reference board from ATI will score around 11,400 3DMarks, or
> a clear 550-600 points advantage.
>
> This is a massive leap over previous-gen parts. The current
> generation's high-end performer from Nvidia, the 8800Ultra scores
> 12,500 points. Seeing a mainstream, $250 part scoring barely a
> thousand less than a current $599 card only makes us wonder how those
> owners that coughed up so much will feel.
>
> When it comes to ATI's part, you know what to expect in this synthetic
> benchmark - outscoring Radeon HD 2900XT is a default mode of operation
> for RV670XT. At least in lower resolutions.
>
> Partners are less than happy with Nvidia board politics as well, but
> this is a subject of another story.

Yawn.... Its the usual back and forth again... AMD has been out of the
running for about a year and finally came up with a part thats faster
then Nvidia... BORING....

Matt

John Lewis
October 6th 07, 07:08 PM
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:03:36 +0100, Shawk >
wrote:

>Wax wrote:
>> "John Lewis" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> And the list price of the ATi offering is ??
>>
>>
>> I take it that you don't like ATI.
>>
>> Tell me what would happen if they disappeared and Nvidia emerged as the only
>> major graphics card maker out there. Personally, I see higher prices, less
>> driver support, and longer periods of time between new products when a
>> company is not challenged by another company.
>>
>> Just something to think about.
>
>
>John owns shares in NVidia. It hasn't led to him being a balanced
>individual


Actually I don't at present. I have held shares in both ATi and nV in
the past. A great pity that I don't have shares in nV, looking at the
rise in their stock-price over the last couple of months.

John Lewis

Tim O
October 6th 07, 08:40 PM
On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:25:32 -0700, AirRaid >
wrote:

>This is a massive leap over previous-gen parts. The current
>generation's high-end performer from Nvidia, the 8800Ultra scores
>12,500 points. Seeing a mainstream, $250 part scoring barely a
>thousand less than a current $599 card only makes us wonder how those
>owners that coughed up so much will feel.

Probably the same way I did 10 years ago when my Rendition Verite was
smoked by the new 3DFX Voodoo...

In other words, this isn't news. Go ahead and buy this new ATI card,
and see how you feel in a year when its just over half the original
price and faster cards have already been out for months.

Anyone who buys on the leading edge is just looking to get screwed.

rms[_2_]
October 7th 07, 12:23 AM
>Yawn.... Its the usual back and forth again... AMD has >been out of the
>running for about a year and finally came up with a part >thats faster
>then Nvidia... BORING....

No it's not boring. It's what enables game makers to put more
graphics-intensive content into their games, which in turn puts pressure on
hardware makers. Capitalism does have some positives.

rms

gamefixer
October 7th 07, 02:44 AM
On Oct 6, 5:23 pm, "rms" > wrote:
> >Yawn.... Its the usual back and forth again... AMD has >been out of the
> >running for about a year and finally came up with a part >thats faster
> >then Nvidia... BORING....
>
> No it's not boring. It's what enables game makers to put more
> graphics-intensive content into their games, which in turn puts pressure on
> hardware makers. Capitalism does have some positives.
>
> rms

I'm not saying its boring in the sense of the business end of things,
I'm saying its boring here. Its like a PS2/3 fanboy that **** talks
Xbox/360's. Who cares???

Sorry, I should have been a bit more clear on that.

Matt

dacconverter
October 7th 07, 04:21 PM
On Oct 6, 3:40 pm, Tim O > wrote:

>
> Anyone who buys on the leading edge is just looking to get screwed.

Then what type of consumers should buy top-of-the-line models?

Tim O
October 7th 07, 07:27 PM
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 08:21:39 -0700, dacconverter
> wrote:

>On Oct 6, 3:40 pm, Tim O > wrote:
>
>>
>> Anyone who buys on the leading edge is just looking to get screwed.
>
>Then what type of consumers should buy top-of-the-line models?

Guys in their mid 20's who live with their parents, wear trench coats,
drive Mini Coopers and collect Dungeons and Dragons rule books.

Larry Roberts
October 8th 07, 02:12 AM
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 14:27:18 -0400, Tim O > wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 08:21:39 -0700, dacconverter
> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 6, 3:40 pm, Tim O > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Anyone who buys on the leading edge is just looking to get screwed.
>>
>>Then what type of consumers should buy top-of-the-line models?
>
>Guys in their mid 20's who live with their parents, wear trench coats,
>drive Mini Coopers and collect Dungeons and Dragons rule books.


And think that they have a fan club that worships them for
their computer toys. :)

Larry Roberts
October 8th 07, 02:13 AM
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:21:05 -0500, Ed > wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 08:21:39 -0700, dacconverter
> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 6, 3:40 pm, Tim O > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Anyone who buys on the leading edge is just looking to get screwed.
>>
>>Then what type of consumers should buy top-of-the-line models?
>
>Geeks with money to burn.


If they got it, let em' spend it.

chrisv
October 10th 07, 02:38 PM
AirRaid wrote:

>A reference board from Nvidia is capable of scoring 10,800 3DMarks,
>while a reference board from ATI will score around 11,400 3DMarks, or
>a clear 550-600 points advantage.

Wow! What a thrashing! Night and day! (rolling eyes)

For me, it matters not who is slightly faster. Until AMD/ATI gets
their **** together on their Linux support, it's Nvidia all the way.

Tony DiMarzio
October 10th 07, 05:02 PM
"chrisv" > wrote in message
...
> AirRaid wrote:
>
>>A reference board from Nvidia is capable of scoring 10,800 3DMarks,
>>while a reference board from ATI will score around 11,400 3DMarks, or
>>a clear 550-600 points advantage.
>
> Wow! What a thrashing! Night and day! (rolling eyes)
>
> For me, it matters not who is slightly faster. Until AMD/ATI gets
> their **** together on their Linux support, it's Nvidia all the way.
>

Lately (in the past year) ATi's Linux support has been much improved. Every
Linux GL app or game I throw at my X1900XTX works fine. Any driver issues
I've had were rectified > 6 months worth of driver revs ago.

What issues are you having currently? Or are you operating and posting from
previous experiences only?

Tony

chrisv
October 15th 07, 03:10 PM
Tony DiMarzio wrote:

>"chrisv" > wrote:
>>
>> For me, it matters not who is slightly faster. Until AMD/ATI gets
>> their **** together on their Linux support, it's Nvidia all the way.
>
>Lately (in the past year) ATi's Linux support has been much improved. Every
>Linux GL app or game I throw at my X1900XTX works fine. Any driver issues
>I've had were rectified > 6 months worth of driver revs ago.
>
>What issues are you having currently? Or are you operating and posting from
>previous experiences only?

I've never been able to get the 3D support working. My most recent
experience was with PCLinuxOS 2007 and a 9500 Pro. I gave up and
bought a 6200-based card.

Aussie[_2_]
October 20th 07, 09:39 PM
Our favorite NviDia troll has again spoken.....




"John Lewis" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:25:32 -0700, AirRaid >
> wrote:
>
>>http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/03/nvidia-admits-defeat=
>>-g92-vs
>>
>>Nvidia admits defeat in G92 vs. RV670 battle
>>
>>3DMark wars
>>
>>By Theo Valich: Friday, 05 October 2007, 9:39 AM
>>
>>IN THE FAR EAST, 3DMark is everything. You can say whatever you want
>>about canned benchmarks, but nobody can dodge the influence of the
>>3DMark06 benchmark.
>>
>>It's been the same story with previous iterations of graphics cards,
>>and the same will happen with the next, DX10-only workout. When that
>>is coming out, only Futuremark knows.
>>
>>But something very significant happened in this round of the war, at
>>least according to our highly-ranked sources.
>>
>>This time around, Nvidia did not tout its G92_200 series as the
>>fastest thing since Niki Lauda, but rather admitted defeat in this all-
>>popular synthetic benchmark at the hands of a yet-unnamed Radeon HD
>>part.
>>
>
> nVidia is phasing out the 8800GTS and filling the hole at a much
> lower, but far higher-volume and with far greater total profits..
> Phasing out the G80 has been a top priority for at least the last
> year. Too large, low-yield, low profit-margin.
>
>>A reference board from Nvidia is capable of scoring 10,800 3DMarks,
>>while a reference board from ATI will score around 11,400 3DMarks, or
>>a clear 550-600 points advantage.
>>
>>This is a massive leap over previous-gen parts. The current
>>generation's high-end performer from Nvidia, the 8800Ultra scores
>>12,500 points. Seeing a mainstream, $250 part scoring barely a
>>thousand less than a current $599 card only makes us wonder how those
>>owners that coughed up so much will feel.
>>
>
> Er, owners of 8800GTX cards purchased at $599, have had them for
> almost a year.... I'm sure that they will not be too upsaet. Their
> current cards will tide them over until nV's 2nd-generation Dx10
> offerings in development for at least the past year finally appear.
>
>>When it comes to ATI's part, you know what to expect in this synthetic
>>benchmark - outscoring Radeon HD 2900XT is a default mode of operation
>>for RV670XT. At least in lower resolutions.
>>
>>Partners are less than happy with Nvidia board politics as well, but
>>this is a subject of another story. =B5
>>
>
> Our favorite ATi troll has again spoken.....
>
> And the expected volume ship date is when ??
> ( And if 3-6 months behind nV's G92, the ATi offering will get
> swamped by nV's 2nd-generation Dx10 parts. Always a step behind... now
> increasing to two steps behind in high-performance GPU's, since AMD
> has no money to invest in bleeding-edge graphics without jeopardizing
> their core business in their life-blood struggle with Intel )
>
> And the list price of the ATi offering is ??
>
> John Lewis
>
>
>

Aussie[_2_]
October 20th 07, 09:43 PM
"Tim O" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 08:21:39 -0700, dacconverter
> > wrote:
>
>>On Oct 6, 3:40 pm, Tim O > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Anyone who buys on the leading edge is just looking to get screwed.
>>
>>Then what type of consumers should buy top-of-the-line models?
>
> Guys in their mid 20's who live with their parents, wear trench coats,
> drive Mini Coopers and collect Dungeons and Dragons rule books.
>

Hahahahaah...Takes one to know other ey.................