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Wax[_2_]
September 30th 07, 02:56 AM
And they still support the GeForce FX series, which is nice to see.

Any comments on this new driver set? Any problems with games, new or old?

Mr.E Solved!
September 30th 07, 04:02 AM
Wax wrote:
> And they still support the GeForce FX series, which is nice to see.
>
> Any comments on this new driver set? Any problems with games, new or old?
>
>

These 163.71's are just as problematic as most of the 16x.xx's. I have
been using these for a week, and they frequently blue screen with
nv4_mini.sys, usbport.sys (!) and frequent hangs, even with no OC. Both
the DX7/8/9 path and OpenGL2.0/2.1 paths are effected.

Not to mention, there was a nasty parsing error in nvapps.xml in one of
the 163.71 beta's, which may or may not be fixed in this build, I'll check.

I have no idea how the DX10 pathway is and I couldn't care less, someone
here must be a Vista fan and will report.

Mr.E Solved!
September 30th 07, 04:22 AM
Wax wrote:
> And they still support the GeForce FX series, which is nice to see.
>
> Any comments on this new driver set? Any problems with games, new or old?
>
>
One more thing: DEP (Data Execution Prevention) likes to kick in when
the nvidia panel DLL is run as an app. in 163.71WHQL Good job there
guys. Yes, I know how to workaround it, tyia.

gamefixer
September 30th 07, 06:09 AM
On Sep 29, 9:02 pm, "Mr.E Solved!" > wrote:
> Wax wrote:
> > And they still support the GeForce FX series, which is nice to see.
>
> > Any comments on this new driver set? Any problems with games, new or old?
>
> These 163.71's are just as problematic as most of the 16x.xx's. I have
> been using these for a week, and they frequently blue screen with
> nv4_mini.sys, usbport.sys (!) and frequent hangs, even with no OC. Both
> the DX7/8/9 path and OpenGL2.0/2.1 paths are effected.
>
> Not to mention, there was a nasty parsing error in nvapps.xml in one of
> the 163.71 beta's, which may or may not be fixed in this build, I'll check.
>
> I have no idea how the DX10 pathway is and I couldn't care less, someone
> here must be a Vista fan and will report.

I've run into no problems in Vista with the 163.69 drivers on an 8800.
So far all the games I've tried work fine. A few DX10 games -
BioShock, Lost Planet and several DX9 games run without issues.

Matt

Man-wai Chang ToDie
September 30th 07, 12:23 PM
> These 163.71's are just as problematic as most of the 16x.xx's. I have
> been using these for a week, and they frequently blue screen with
> nv4_mini.sys, usbport.sys (!) and frequent hangs, even with no OC. Both
> the DX7/8/9 path and OpenGL2.0/2.1 paths are effected.

What were your WinXP doing?

--
@[email protected] Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.04) Linux 2.6.22.8
^ ^ 19:23:01 up 4 days 22:13 1 user load average: 0.00 0.03 0.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk

Mr.E Solved!
September 30th 07, 06:24 PM
Man-wai Chang ToDie wrote:
>> These 163.71's are just as problematic as most of the 16x.xx's. I have
>> been using these for a week, and they frequently blue screen with
>> nv4_mini.sys, usbport.sys (!) and frequent hangs, even with no OC.
>> Both the DX7/8/9 path and OpenGL2.0/2.1 paths are effected.
>
> What were your WinXP doing?
>

The XP were behaving normally. So far I have seen hangs with looping
audio in Civ4 (with either EAX on or off), or the nv4_mini.sys error
during normal operation.

Jedi and other Q-engine games would CTD with an DLL error, but not
OpenGL32.DLL. Generally these events happen when screen clutter is
preceded by a new audio event.

Too frequently, a 3d game after idling, but not in s1 or s3 power saving
mode will BS with usbport.sys, which has never happened before and I
have disconnected any and all un-necessary usb items.

Company of Heroes also freezes with looping audio when even slightly
oc'ed. So far the only program to not be effected is Medieval 2 Total
War and maybe Galactic Civilization. However, I do not use
multi-sampling or super-sampling with Galactic Civ, so I have not
checked to see if that driver FSAA option is the root of the problem. It
is possible that there is only one faulty component to the suite and I
frequently use that component, hence.

Since reverting to the 94.24's (the last WHQL ver. with the old control
panel as the default) I have not had these problems, I am also able to
OC the PCIe bus and video card back to the levels I have been accustomed
to using. (well within safe operational limits)

I suspect changes made to the forceware suite have upset the harmonious
relationship my pc subsystems have had with each other.

DX9 games + 9x Forceware + DX9 hardware + XP = rock solid gaming

DX9/10 games + 16x.xx Forceware + DX9 hardware + XP = frequent hangs

gamefixer
September 30th 07, 07:21 PM
On Sep 30, 11:24 am, "Mr.E Solved!" > wrote:
> Man-wai Chang ToDie wrote:
> >> These 163.71's are just as problematic as most of the 16x.xx's. I have
> >> been using these for a week, and they frequently blue screen with
> >> nv4_mini.sys, usbport.sys (!) and frequent hangs, even with no OC.
> >> Both the DX7/8/9 path and OpenGL2.0/2.1 paths are effected.
>
> > What were your WinXP doing?
>
> The XP were behaving normally. So far I have seen hangs with looping
> audio in Civ4 (with either EAX on or off), or the nv4_mini.sys error
> during normal operation.
>
> Jedi and other Q-engine games would CTD with an DLL error, but not
> OpenGL32.DLL. Generally these events happen when screen clutter is
> preceded by a new audio event.
>
> Too frequently, a 3d game after idling, but not in s1 or s3 power saving
> mode will BS with usbport.sys, which has never happened before and I
> have disconnected any and all un-necessary usb items.
>
> Company of Heroes also freezes with looping audio when even slightly
> oc'ed. So far the only program to not be effected is Medieval 2 Total
> War and maybe Galactic Civilization. However, I do not use
> multi-sampling or super-sampling with Galactic Civ, so I have not
> checked to see if that driver FSAA option is the root of the problem. It
> is possible that there is only one faulty component to the suite and I
> frequently use that component, hence.
>
> Since reverting to the 94.24's (the last WHQL ver. with the old control
> panel as the default) I have not had these problems, I am also able to
> OC the PCIe bus and video card back to the levels I have been accustomed
> to using. (well within safe operational limits)
>
> I suspect changes made to the forceware suite have upset the harmonious
> relationship my pc subsystems have had with each other.
>
> DX9 games + 9x Forceware + DX9 hardware + XP = rock solid gaming
>
> DX9/10 games + 16x.xx Forceware + DX9 hardware + XP = frequent hangs

Man those problems would drive me nuts! FWIW, the gaming Vista machine
I have also boots to XP because I've got some software that doesnt run
in Vista. I'm using Forceware version 163.71 and have not had any
problems. Granted I'm playing newer games so perhaps thats got
something to do with it.

eVGA 8800GTX, eVGA 680i mobo w/latest BIOS, SB X-Fi, Intel E6600 Oc'ed
to 3ghz. Vista Home 32bit and XP Pro 32bit.

Matt

Mr.E Solved!
September 30th 07, 08:03 PM
gamefixer wrote:

> Man those problems would drive me nuts! FWIW, the gaming Vista machine
> I have also boots to XP because I've got some software that doesnt run
> in Vista. I'm using Forceware version 163.71 and have not had any
> problems. Granted I'm playing newer games so perhaps thats got
> something to do with it.
>
> eVGA 8800GTX, eVGA 680i mobo w/latest BIOS, SB X-Fi, Intel E6600 Oc'ed
> to 3ghz. Vista Home 32bit and XP Pro 32bit.
>
> Matt
>

Ya, system stability is critical for online gaming and I felt confident
in the 16x.xx's, the confidence was not borne out by testing.

When I replied earlier and as I type now, I have a USB hub with 4
devices plugged into it, and 4 more plugged into the PC.

I also have an mp3 playing, with X-fi entertainment mode on, which I
will switch back to game mode when I alt-tab back to Civ4 which is
waiting patiently in the background. (1920x1400 x32b x16aniso x4xFSAA
xSupersampling xgamma).

While all that is going on, I shall pause to play a quick game of Jedi.
(OpenGL, full image quality enahncements at 1600x1200 + EAX) Ran like a
charm, and now I shall alt-tab back out to Civ4, and do a turn. No problems.

The point I'm making is that the 16x.xx's are no where near as stable as
the 9x.xx's in XP with DX9 hardware. Also, all aspects of the PC are
overclocked and still 100% stable.

Rene
September 30th 07, 09:04 PM
"Mr.E Solved!" > schreef in bericht
...
> Man-wai Chang ToDie wrote:
>>> These 163.71's are just as problematic as most of the 16x.xx's. I have
>>> been using these for a week, and they frequently blue screen with
>>> nv4_mini.sys, usbport.sys (!) and frequent hangs, even with no OC. Both
>>> the DX7/8/9 path and OpenGL2.0/2.1 paths are effected.
>
> Since reverting to the 94.24's (the last WHQL ver. with the old control
> panel as the default) I have not had these problems, I am also able to OC
> the PCIe bus and video card back to the levels I have been accustomed to
> using. (well within safe operational limits)

Hi,

Would this driver support a 7950 chip? Where would one get it? I have been
looking on Nvidia's site but I can only download the latest version or maybe
I am looking in the wrong place. Choosing that I want to look at legacy
drivers only takes me to the same download page.

Thank You in advance!
Yours sincerely,
Rene

Skybuck Flying
September 30th 07, 09:51 PM
Ohoh I just updated to these new drivers.

I hope I don't get any issue's..

Good to know this I ll keep an eye out for problems.

Bye,
Skybuck.

Mr.E Solved!
October 1st 07, 05:00 AM
Rene wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Would this driver support a 7950 chip? Where would one get it? I have been
> looking on Nvidia's site but I can only download the latest version or maybe
> I am looking in the wrong place. Choosing that I want to look at legacy
> drivers only takes me to the same download page.
>
> Thank You in advance!
> Yours sincerely,
> Rene

Yes, the Forceware 9x series supports GeForce 7950GT's, my experience so
far has been that they are the most stable for DX9 games.

Here is a link to the driver archive, I'm not sure why you can not
access it: pay close attention and make sure you DL the right version
for the right OS for the right card.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-2k_archive.html

Rene
October 1st 07, 10:01 AM
"Mr.E Solved!" > schreef in bericht
...
> Rene wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Would this driver support a 7950 chip? Where would one get it? I have
>> been looking on Nvidia's site but I can only download the latest version
>> or maybe I am looking in the wrong place. Choosing that I want to look at
>> legacy drivers only takes me to the same download page.
>>
>> Thank You in advance!
>> Yours sincerely,
>> Rene
>
> Yes, the Forceware 9x series supports GeForce 7950GT's, my experience so
> far has been that they are the most stable for DX9 games.

Thanks Mr. E. Solved! Having the old control panel is not bad either, I hate
the look and feel of this bright new&modern "my first Sony" thing. Why don't
they build in a choice like "simple view vs. advanced view" or something
like that?

> Here is a link to the driver archive, I'm not sure why you can not access
> it: pay close attention and make sure you DL the right version for the
> right OS for the right card.
>
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-2k_archive.html

With Your link I managed to retrieve them. With my method I still can't.
First I go to www.nvidia.com, then I press "Download drivers". Then at the
bottom I choose "Legacy Driver Download System" which brings me to these
three colums in which I select "Graphics Driver", "Geforce 7 series" and
"Windows XP/2000". This brings me to download screen for ForceWare Release
162, the one I was not looking for. Are You doing something different to
reach the list with older drivers?

By the way, that list is not working perfectly either (not meant to
criticise You but the site itself). I thought "let's get all the 9x-xp
drivers, might be handy to have them here". I prefer the international
version as my mother tongue is Dutch (yes, I am one of those, can't help it
;-)) and when I try to dl the 97.78 I only get blank pages. But that is not
that important, I now have the version You proposed. I am just about to
reinstall everything on my PC so this is just the right moment.

Thanks again!
Yours sincerely,
Rene

RF
October 1st 07, 12:14 PM
"Rene" > wrote in message
...
> With Your link I managed to retrieve them. With my method I still can't.
> First I go to www.nvidia.com, then I press "Download drivers". Then at the
> bottom I choose "Legacy Driver Download System" which brings me to these
> three colums in which I select "Graphics Driver", "Geforce 7 series" and
> "Windows XP/2000". This brings me to download screen for ForceWare Release
> 162, the one I was not looking for. Are You doing something different to
> reach the list with older drivers?
>
> Thanks again!
> Yours sincerely,
> Rene

Looks like they haven't updated the legacy download system to point to the
latest driver.

Why are you using the legacy download system anyway? The new one pointed me
towards the correct version without issue. It also sent me to the Dutch
version. :D

RF.

Rene
October 1st 07, 04:15 PM
"RF" > schreef in bericht
...
>
> "Rene" > wrote in message
> ...
>> With Your link I managed to retrieve them. With my method I still can't.
>> First I go to www.nvidia.com, then I press "Download drivers". Then at
>> the bottom I choose "Legacy Driver Download System" which brings me to
>> these three colums in which I select "Graphics Driver", "Geforce 7
>> series" and "Windows XP/2000". This brings me to download screen for
>> ForceWare Release 162, the one I was not looking for. Are You doing
>> something different to reach the list with older drivers?
>>
>> Thanks again!
>> Yours sincerely,
>> Rene
>
> Looks like they haven't updated the legacy download system to point to the
> latest driver.

That was not my problem, I was not looking for the latest driver.

> Why are you using the legacy download system anyway? The new one pointed
> me towards the correct version without issue. It also sent me to the
> Dutch version. :D

I see, another Kaaskop in this group ;-). The reason I wanted a legacy
driver is described higher in this thread, the 94.24 seems to be the most
stable when it comes to DirectX9. Also it still has a "real" control panel
which I highly prefer above the thing that one has to use now.

Thanks for Your input as well!

Now, just to feed some prejudices around the world: Have You watered Your
tulips today yet? I am not going to because it is raining and that saves
money. Instead I stay in, wearing my wooden shoes (and warm clothing so I do
not have to use the heating)(which costs money), eating some cheese and not
spending money ;-).

Greetings,
Rene

Rene
October 1st 07, 04:16 PM
"David Vair" > schreef in bericht
...
>
>>Rene wrote:
>>
>> With Your link I managed to retrieve them. With my method I still can't.
>> First I go to www.nvidia.com, then I press "Download drivers". Then at
>> the bottom I choose "Legacy Driver Download System" which brings me to
>> these three colums in which I select "Graphics Driver", "Geforce 7
>> series" and "Windows XP/2000". This brings me to download screen for
>> ForceWare Release 162, the one I was not looking for. Are You doing
>> something different to reach the list with older drivers?
>>
>> By the way, that list is not working perfectly either (not meant to
>> criticise You but the site itself). I thought "let's get all the 9x-xp
>> drivers, might be handy to have them here". I prefer the international
>> version as my mother tongue is Dutch (yes, I am one of those, can't help
>> it ;-)) and when I try to dl the 97.78 I only get blank pages. But that
>> is not that important, I now have the version You proposed. I am just
>> about to reinstall everything on my PC so this is just the right moment.
>>
>> Thanks again!
>> Yours sincerely,
>> Rene
>>
> Go through the normal driver selecttion routine. When you get to the
> actual download page, on the left hand side in the Additional Info box
> there is a link to the Archive of drivers. Go here to get older drivers.

Thank You very much David, that is indeed where they are to be found. I just
didn't see that link before.

Greetings,
Rene

Mr.E Solved!
October 1st 07, 04:32 PM
Rene wrote:

>
> Thank You very much David, that is indeed where they are to be found. I just
> didn't see that link before.
>
> Greetings,
> Rene


I am glad you finally got them! For the future, in case you have to use
a version of Forceware that includes the "new" control panel, here is a
registry file that activates the old panel, which is still there thanks
to a guardian angel at nVidia:


Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\NvCplApi\Policies]
"DevPolicies"=dword:00000000
"ModePolicies"=dword:00000000
"ModePersist_GPU:0_Mode:0"=hex:00,00,00,00,40,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00, 00,\
05,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,05,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00 ,00,00,00
"LutPersistDesktop_GPU:0_Head:0"=hex:00,00,00,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,\

00,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,00 ,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,00,\
00
"LutPersistFSVM_GPU:0"=hex:00,00,00,00,64,00,00,00,47,00,00,00,47,00,00, 00,5a,\
00,00,00,45,00,00,00,45,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00 ,00,00,00,00,00,00
"ContextUIPolicy"=dword:00000001
"CplGroupUIPolicy"=dword:00000001
"TaskbarUIPolicy"=dword:00000001



Cut and paste from "Windows --> to the last 1" Then save that file as
OLDPANEL.REG. Then run, or merge, that file into the registry by double
clicking on it.

You will now be able to use the old panel with new forcewares, not that
either is a compelling upgrade to-day!

Rene
October 1st 07, 07:33 PM
"Mr.E Solved!" > schreef in bericht
. ..
> Rene wrote:
>
>>
>> Thank You very much David, that is indeed where they are to be found. I
>> just didn't see that link before.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Rene
>
>
> I am glad you finally got them! For the future, in case you have to use a
> version of Forceware that includes the "new" control panel, here is a
> registry file that activates the old panel, which is still there thanks to
> a guardian angel at nVidia:
>
>
> Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
>
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\NvCplApi\Policies]
> "DevPolicies"=dword:00000000
> "ModePolicies"=dword:00000000
> "ModePersist_GPU:0_Mode:0"=hex:00,00,00,00,40,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00, 00,\
> 05,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,05,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00 ,00,00,00
> "LutPersistDesktop_GPU:0_Head:0"=hex:00,00,00,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,\
>
> 00,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,00 ,00,64,00,00,00,64,00,00,\
> 00
> "LutPersistFSVM_GPU:0"=hex:00,00,00,00,64,00,00,00,47,00,00,00,47,00,00, 00,5a,\
> 00,00,00,45,00,00,00,45,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00 ,00,00,00,00,00,00
> "ContextUIPolicy"=dword:00000001
> "CplGroupUIPolicy"=dword:00000001
> "TaskbarUIPolicy"=dword:00000001
>
>
>
> Cut and paste from "Windows --> to the last 1" Then save that file as
> OLDPANEL.REG. Then run, or merge, that file into the registry by double
> clicking on it.
>
> You will now be able to use the old panel with new forcewares, not that
> either is a compelling upgrade to-day!

However, being able to restore the real control panel by means of Your very
good tip is a big upgrade! Thank You very much, had not heard of this (it
works; at the moment I still have the latest fw installed which sometimes
give spontaneous reboots allthought that improved very much after installing
the latest Hyperion drivers from Via, but tomorrow I am about to reinstall
everything on my computer on a brand new hd so that's the best moment to
install the other fw).
BTW, I don't know what it is with decisions like this. I think that people
who will try to get the most out of their cards are the people that will
stroll around in the control panel most often and know what they are doing
and like to be able to do that as much "under the hoot" as possible, which
is a nuisance when You get some sort of "control panel for dummies". People
who need to have that kind of panel are usually not the kind of people who
will feel confident to change anything at all. But well, I guess some very
educated and wise people have thought about that and judged the new control
panel to be the best thing for the people. I am so happy that so many wise
people decide for me what is best for me. Now I need some more soma!

Yours sincerely,
Rene

P.S. You may have noticed that I was getting a bit annoyed in the end of my
message. That was off course not pointed at You but more in general.

Mr.E Solved!
October 2nd 07, 01:07 AM
Rene wrote:
> I guess some very
> educated and wise people have thought about that and judged the new control
> panel to be the best thing for the people. I am so happy that so many wise
> people decide for me what is best for me. Now I need some more soma!
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Rene
>
> P.S. You may have noticed that I was getting a bit annoyed in the end of my
> message. That was off course not pointed at You but more in general.
>


I understand where your vexations are directed, and I will echo them:

Consolidating nTune-like elements and other benchmarking and testing
capabilities in the suite, adding inscrutable inefficiencies in the new
control panel by burying options too deeply, all the while removing
critical features such as refresh rate overrides and ignoring other
critical areas, such as revamping the Application Profile section.

That this may have been done to bring common control panel operational
denominators to Vista and XP forceware installations saving nVidia
programming assets would be wonderful, but it doesn't work very well and
reception has been poor (for reasons real and imagined).

The old control panel lacks some specific new features, but it retains
all of the required old ones, puts them where you can get at them easily
and doesn't require nTune for hardware adjustments. Plus you can monitor
the GPU temp with the old panel, the new panel requires you to run
nvMonitor to get that data.

Granted, LCD users don't need refresh rates, but there are hundreds of
millions of CRT displays and televisions which still do, also gamers
want game profiles so they can tailor the image and performance to the
game and they want them to work reliably, no guessing, no redo until it
'sticks'.

Vivo, dual-view, multi-monitor, decoding, rendering, hardware
adjustments, all of these things need to incorporated in a much more
user friendly way than is currently offered in the new control panel.

I truly can't believe I'm saying this, but look to Creative's X-Fi nifty
and easy to use interface for ideas nVidia. The drivers can (must) be
set to different modes based on usage, with icons and stylistic dialogs
that pop-up help and an integrated preview to test your settings as soon
as you set them, plus one tray icon that accesses all of the Creative
audio applets.

Yes, nVidia offers the user the same degree of control over their video
subsystem, but as I stated above, it's unsatisfactory in consistency and
ready for a complete redesign. Anything would be better.

Rene
October 2nd 07, 09:16 AM
"Mr.E Solved!" > schreef in bericht
. ..
> Rene wrote:
>> I guess some very
>> educated and wise people have thought about that and judged the new
>> control panel to be the best thing for the people. I am so happy that so
>> many wise people decide for me what is best for me. Now I need some more
>> soma!
>>
>> Yours sincerely,
>> Rene
>>
>> P.S. You may have noticed that I was getting a bit annoyed in the end of
>> my message. That was off course not pointed at You but more in general.
>
>
> I understand where your vexations are directed, and I will echo them:
>
> Consolidating nTune-like elements and other benchmarking and testing
> capabilities in the suite, adding inscrutable inefficiencies in the new
> control panel by burying options too deeply, all the while removing
> critical features such as refresh rate overrides and ignoring other
> critical areas, such as revamping the Application Profile section.
>
> That this may have been done to bring common control panel operational
> denominators to Vista and XP forceware installations saving nVidia
> programming assets would be wonderful, but it doesn't work very well and
> reception has been poor (for reasons real and imagined).
>
> The old control panel lacks some specific new features, but it retains all
> of the required old ones, puts them where you can get at them easily and
> doesn't require nTune for hardware adjustments. Plus you can monitor the
> GPU temp with the old panel, the new panel requires you to run nvMonitor
> to get that data.
>
> Granted, LCD users don't need refresh rates, but there are hundreds of
> millions of CRT displays and televisions which still do,

I am a still a big fan of CRT, I even bought a new one a couple of months
ago (22"), well, it was second hand but, except for the price, as good as
new. So I do want to be able to adjust refresh rates.

> also gamers want game profiles so they can tailor the image and
> performance to the game and they want them to work reliably, no guessing,
> no redo until it 'sticks'.
>
> Vivo, dual-view, multi-monitor, decoding, rendering, hardware adjustments,
> all of these things need to incorporated in a much more user friendly way
> than is currently offered in the new control panel.
>
> I truly can't believe I'm saying this, but look to Creative's X-Fi nifty
> and easy to use interface for ideas nVidia. The drivers can (must) be set
> to different modes based on usage, with icons and stylistic dialogs that
> pop-up help and an integrated preview to test your settings as soon as you
> set them, plus one tray icon that accesses all of the Creative audio
> applets.
>
> Yes, nVidia offers the user the same degree of control over their video
> subsystem, but as I stated above, it's unsatisfactory in consistency and
> ready for a complete redesign. Anything would be better.

I couldn't have summed up the things better. I agree completely.

Greetings,
Rene

DRS
October 2nd 07, 11:40 AM
"Rene" > wrote in message


[...]

> Now, just to feed some prejudices around the world: Have You watered
> Your tulips today yet? I am not going to because it is raining and
> that saves money. Instead I stay in, wearing my wooden shoes (and
> warm clothing so I do not have to use the heating)(which costs
> money), eating some cheese and not spending money ;-).

You forgot the raw herrings and Jenever. :-)

Rene
October 2nd 07, 01:37 PM
"DRS" > schreef in bericht
...
> "Rene" > wrote in message
>
>
> [...]
>
>> Now, just to feed some prejudices around the world: Have You watered
>> Your tulips today yet? I am not going to because it is raining and
>> that saves money. Instead I stay in, wearing my wooden shoes (and
>> warm clothing so I do not have to use the heating)(which costs
>> money), eating some cheese and not spending money ;-).
>
> You forgot the raw herrings and Jenever. :-)

I only take those in the morning after having smoked a big joint and after
not having gone into the red light district because that costs a lot of
money so I leave that to the tourists ;-). Please do not disturb me again
because I have to take care that the tea-bags that are hanging outside to
dry (so I can present them to my visitors afterwards) do not get wet in the
rain because that takes flavour from them which would be a waste. I hope
they get dry very soon because this afternoon an anniversary is celebrated
in the cafe a bit further on in the street. Not that I know the people who
it is about but it is always a good opportunity to get some free drinks and
food. And an equally good opportunity not to give tips to the personnel.
That reminds me of the fact that I still have to repair my bicycle.
Afterwards I will look at the church ceremony on telly, off course I turn it
off right before the come to collect money.

Rene