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Lars-Erik ěsterud
January 14th 07, 09:38 PM
Anyoneout there have a clue about calculation power consumption?

Before I buy a new PSU I had a look at my old one.

It's a Enermax 350W and the label states these specs:

Enermax EG365P-VE

+3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W

105W 160W 312W 5W 12W 11W 185W 350W

The last line is my calculated Watts for the lines,
strange that the sum of the individual lines is much
higher than the total (it's not on new PSUs). Is this
something fishy, or what does that really tell you?

As you see it has only one 12V line, and this today powers:

- Asus P4PE mainboard (with Promise S-ATA raid ctrlr)
- Intel P4 2.54 Ghz (478 socket) with stock fan
- Creative SB Live 1024 PCI sound card
- Plextor PX-716A DVD-writer
- Samsung Spinpoint 120 250GB S-ATA harddisk
- Asus V8440 Nvidia Ti-4200 video card

Now, if I replace the video card with a 7600GS
will this work, or will my PSU give up on me.

How much Amps will the other stuff in my rig use?
It's the CPU that takes most juice here, right?

Is there any tables or any experiences that would
help me calculate this? Or do I need a new PSU?
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Phil Weldon
January 14th 07, 10:23 PM
'Lars-Erik ěsterud' wrote, in part:
| Before I buy a new PSU I had a look at my old one.
|
| It's a Enermax 350W and the label states these specs:
_____

The TOTAL power rating for you power supply is 350 Watts. The power rating
for each supply voltage is the MAXIMUM for that particular voltage, but the
TOTAL power used from ALL voltages must be 350 Watts or less.

Just estimating, but the TOTAL power consumption of your present system is
likely about 200 Watts. So it is likely that you can get by with your
present power supply, even after installing a nVidia 7600GS replacing the
Ti-4200. Your present system has very little hardware installed, the only
two power hungry devices are the CPU and the display adapter.

Try the new display adapter with your present power supply.

Phil Weldon

"Lars-Erik ěsterud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
| Anyoneout there have a clue about calculation power consumption?
|

| Enermax EG365P-VE
|
| +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
| 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W
|
| 105W 160W 312W 5W 12W 11W 185W 350W
|
| The last line is my calculated Watts for the lines,
| strange that the sum of the individual lines is much
| higher than the total (it's not on new PSUs). Is this
| something fishy, or what does that really tell you?
|
| As you see it has only one 12V line, and this today powers:
|
| - Asus P4PE mainboard (with Promise S-ATA raid ctrlr)
| - Intel P4 2.54 Ghz (478 socket) with stock fan
| - Creative SB Live 1024 PCI sound card
| - Plextor PX-716A DVD-writer
| - Samsung Spinpoint 120 250GB S-ATA harddisk
| - Asus V8440 Nvidia Ti-4200 video card
|
| Now, if I replace the video card with a 7600GS
| will this work, or will my PSU give up on me.
|
| How much Amps will the other stuff in my rig use?
| It's the CPU that takes most juice here, right?
|
| Is there any tables or any experiences that would
| help me calculate this? Or do I need a new PSU?
| --
| Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
| XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Amy L
January 14th 07, 11:09 PM
Here is a good resource for PS calculations.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

Amy

"Lars-Erik ěsterud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
> Anyoneout there have a clue about calculation power consumption?
>
> Before I buy a new PSU I had a look at my old one.
>
> It's a Enermax 350W and the label states these specs:
>
> Enermax EG365P-VE
>
> +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
> 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W
>
> 105W 160W 312W 5W 12W 11W 185W 350W
>
> The last line is my calculated Watts for the lines,
> strange that the sum of the individual lines is much
> higher than the total (it's not on new PSUs). Is this
> something fishy, or what does that really tell you?
>
> As you see it has only one 12V line, and this today powers:
>
> - Asus P4PE mainboard (with Promise S-ATA raid ctrlr)
> - Intel P4 2.54 Ghz (478 socket) with stock fan
> - Creative SB Live 1024 PCI sound card
> - Plextor PX-716A DVD-writer
> - Samsung Spinpoint 120 250GB S-ATA harddisk
> - Asus V8440 Nvidia Ti-4200 video card
>
> Now, if I replace the video card with a 7600GS
> will this work, or will my PSU give up on me.
>
> How much Amps will the other stuff in my rig use?
> It's the CPU that takes most juice here, right?
>
> Is there any tables or any experiences that would
> help me calculate this? Or do I need a new PSU?
> --
> Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
> XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Mr.E Solved!
January 14th 07, 11:43 PM
Amy L wrote:
> Here is a good resource for PS calculations.
> http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp


Yes, this link is useful, interesting, and geeky fun all in one. Works
fine in FF2.0.

Lars-Erik ěsterud
January 14th 07, 11:51 PM
Amy L wrote:

> Here is a good resource for PS calculations.
> http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

He he, even stranger:

With my Nvidia GeForce4 Ti-series i get 97W total
With a Nvidia 7600GS card instead I get 94W total
With a Nvidia 7600GT card instead I get 98W total

It's actually saying that my Ti-4200 card is using
MORE power than the 7600GS, and only 1W less than
the 7600GT. These numbers can't be right, or...
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Lars-Erik ěsterud
January 14th 07, 11:51 PM
Amy L wrote:

> Here is a good resource for PS calculations.
> http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

Must have some serious bugs :-)

First I got 97W, then I added a IDE RAID (for my S-ATA onboard raid to
be sure) and it raised to 220W. But if I added a "PCI NIC" or a single
"PCI IDE" card, then the total suddenly was 20W. Must be something :-)
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Lars-Erik ěsterud
January 15th 07, 12:33 AM
Phil Weldon wrote:

> Just estimating, but the TOTAL power consumption of your present system is
> likely about 200 Watts. So it is likely that you can get by with your
> present power supply, even after installing a nVidia 7600GS replacing the
> Ti-4200. Your present system has very little hardware installed, the only
> two power hungry devices are the CPU and the display adapter.

Do you have any idea on how much Amps the P4 (478 socket) 2.54GZ uses?
As it is that and a new video-card that must share the 26A on the 12V
(as I have been told the total wattage is less than my Ti-4200 card,
but the load is moved from the 3.3/5V rail to the 12V rail instead.

> | +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
> | 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W

So the question is. Is 26A enough for CPU + 7600GS + HDD + DVD-RW?
(ok, the mainboard with S-ATA controller and LAN also uses 12V or?)
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

peter
January 15th 07, 01:06 AM
did not work for me either..........
simple system needed 850W........................??????????/
peter
"Lars-Erik ěsterud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
> Amy L wrote:
>
>> Here is a good resource for PS calculations.
>> http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp
>
> Must have some serious bugs :-)
>
> First I got 97W, then I added a IDE RAID (for my S-ATA onboard raid to
> be sure) and it raised to 220W. But if I added a "PCI NIC" or a single
> "PCI IDE" card, then the total suddenly was 20W. Must be something :-)
> --
> Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
> XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Lars-Erik ěsterud
January 15th 07, 01:45 AM
Lars-Erik ěsterud wrote:

> Enermax EG365P-VE
>
> +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
> 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W

Found somthing interesting. Most versions of this PSU tested has a 16A
+12V line, but apparently I'm lucky and I have a newer model of it
(it's even possibly to buy new today, that's strange, 4 years after).

The strange totals (sum of wattage beeing higher that the total) by
this table I found at
http://www.enermax.com.tw/english/product_Display1.asp?PrID=29

It seems like the 3.3/5V and 12V share something inside the PSU.

EG365AX-VE(W) / EG365AX-VE(G) / EG365P-VE

+3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5Vsb Total
32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2.2A 350W
----185W---- 312W 5W 12W 11W
--------322W-------- --------28W--------- 350W

As you see from the table the 3.3/5 and 12 share 322W, but that should
mean that when moving the graphics card load from 3.3/5V (with the
Ti-4200) to 12V (with the 7600GS) the load is still in the same 322W

That is if I have understood how this "sharing" of power works :-)

--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Paul
January 15th 07, 02:12 AM
Lars-Erik ěsterud wrote:
> Anyoneout there have a clue about calculation power consumption?
>
> Before I buy a new PSU I had a look at my old one.
>
> It's a Enermax 350W and the label states these specs:
>
> Enermax EG365P-VE
>
> +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
> 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W
>
> 105W 160W 312W 5W 12W 11W 185W 350W
>
> The last line is my calculated Watts for the lines,
> strange that the sum of the individual lines is much
> higher than the total (it's not on new PSUs). Is this
> something fishy, or what does that really tell you?
>
> As you see it has only one 12V line, and this today powers:
>
> - Asus P4PE mainboard (with Promise S-ATA raid ctrlr)
> - Intel P4 2.54 Ghz (478 socket) with stock fan
> - Creative SB Live 1024 PCI sound card
> - Plextor PX-716A DVD-writer
> - Samsung Spinpoint 120 250GB S-ATA harddisk
> - Asus V8440 Nvidia Ti-4200 video card
>
> Now, if I replace the video card with a 7600GS
> will this work, or will my PSU give up on me.
>
> How much Amps will the other stuff in my rig use?
> It's the CPU that takes most juice here, right?
>
> Is there any tables or any experiences that would
> help me calculate this? Or do I need a new PSU?

Pentium 4 Processor 2.53 GHz 61.5W
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL6PD

From 12V rail, this is (61.5W/12V) * (1/0.90) = 5.7A at 90$ efficiency.

DVD-writer 12V @ 1.5A max

Hard drive 12V @ 0.6A idle

7600GS 27.4W, 27.4W / 12V = 2.28A
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/power-noise_6.html

Cooling fans - 0.5A estimated

Total 12V ==> (5.7A + 1.5A + 0.6A + 2.28A + 0.5A) = 10.58A

The 3.3V and 5V consumption cannot be calculated exactly, but
allocating 50W should be enough. Total power for system approx:
(10.58 * 12) + 50W = 177W, and that power may arise when gaming
with a "key disk" inserted in the optical drive.

Neither the 12V consumption, nor the total power limit, are
being exceeded.

Power supplies are constrained by two limits (at least as
seen on their labels). The entire power supply has a thermal
limit, such that, if all outputs go to the max, the inside of
the chassis would get too hot. The primary circuit driving the
transformer, presumably has some limits. Those help define the
total power limit.

Any individual output, stressed to the maximum by itself, has
a higher limit, than when all are being stressed collectively.
If the neighbouring circuits are cool, one individual output can
give more output, as thermally conditions allow it.

Some outputs can share a transformer. You may see coupling between
output limits in that case (like if 3.3V and 5V shared resources).

Since outputs may share a transformer, the output voltages are
established by the turns ratio of the transformer, for each output.
The outputs are rectified after the transformer. When one output is
loaded, in a case where outputs share a common primary, it is not
possible to accurately regulate all outputs at the same time.
And that is why the outputs will use the full range of variation
allowed by the ATX spec. Only a few power supplies have completely
independent circuits and regulation, as it costs more to make.

Xbitlabs plots cross regulation for power supplies.

On this one, the 3.3V shows colored bands, meaning when the supply
is at full load, the 3.3V cannot keep up:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/atx-psu5_11.html

On this one, the 3.3V is tightly regulated, while the other two
outputs "flap in the breeze".

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/atx-psu_6.html

This supply design was set so that the 5V always had a high output.
Which is why the 5V plot is mostly red. The Xbitlabs cross
regulation plots show plus/minus variation, and either a
+5% error, or a -5% error, would give a red color in the
plot. So these plots don't show whether the 5.0V was 5.25V or
4.75V. Merely that the output has hit the 5% tolerance mark.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/atx-psu_13.html

The Xbitlabs plots consist of three images. One image shows the
3.3V output. The second is 5V. The third is 12V. The legend in
the upper right hand corner, labels which rail is being viewed.
The X and Y axis, show the level of power being extracted from
the rails. The "combined 3.3V and 5V" on the Y axis, is an
assumption by their reviewer, that the supply actually shares
resources for 3.3V and 5V, which is not always true. So
there are limits to the amount of intelligence contained in
their compact representation of regulation performance. Still,
having these plots is an excellent way to display how the
supply functions. It beats the hell out of web site reviews,
where all they do is compliment the manufacturer, on the color
of LEDs used inside the power supply :-)

Paul

Lars-Erik ěsterud
January 15th 07, 02:21 AM
> Total 12V ==> (5.7A + 1.5A + 0.6A + 2.28A + 0.5A) = 10.58A

As you could see from my last post I found out that the 3.3/5 and 12
lines shared a maximum wattage too, and by replacing a Ti-4200 with a
7600GS I just moved that from 3.3/5 to 12 (within same "share"). And
according to feedback the 7600GS actually use less W than the 4200 :-)

> Some outputs can share a transformer. You may see coupling between
> output limits in that case (like if 3.3V and 5V shared resources).

And then again the 3.3/5 and the 12 share something again here :-)

BTW: I reported that voltage on 12V only showed 11.4V in MBM.
Turned out just to be a setup fault. It showed 12.1 in the
BIOS and in Asub probe (and now in MBM too after a fix :-)
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Phil Weldon
January 15th 07, 03:06 AM
'Lars-Erik ěsterud' wrote:
| Do you have any idea on how much Amps the P4 (478 socket) 2.54GZ uses?
| As it is that and a new video-card that must share the 26A on the 12V
| (as I have been told the total wattage is less than my Ti-4200 card,
| but the load is moved from the 3.3/5V rail to the 12V rail instead.
_____

Documents available at the Intel website give the power requirements for all
Intel CPUs.
At
<http://processorfinder.intel.com/list.aspx?ProcFam=483>
you will find a list of all versions of the Pentium 4. There are ten
versions of the Pentium 4 2.53 GHz 533 FSB 13 micron CPU. Each is a bit
different, but the power requirements will be almost identical. Choosing
the SL6Q9, for example, brings you to
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL6Q9# .

The maximum thermal power dissipation for normal operation is 61.5 Watts
(all the electrical power supplied to the CPU becomes heat.)
Your motherboard is probably the ASUS P4-800E; it has a 12 VDC four pin
connector for the CPU and a DC-DC downconverter/regulator to supply the
approximately 1.54 VDC required by the CPU. Dividing 61.5 Watts by 12 V
gives 5.125 Amperes. Assuming 75% conversion efficiency for the DC-DC
downconvertor/regulator, the required total wattage would a maximum of 61.5
Watts / .75 giving 82 Watts, or 82 Watts/ 12 VDC = 6.8 Amperes from the 12
VDC supply.

As I replied earlier, your ATX power supply has load sharing, so that a wide
range of 3.3 VDC, 5 VDC, and 12 VDC in combination is available, as long as
the TOTAL power does not exceed 350 Watts.

So there you are.
The decision is yours to make, but your present power supply should be
sufficient, and no harm will be done by trying the new display adapter. You
can always buy a larger capacity power supply later.

Phil Weldon

"| Do you have any idea on how much Amps the P4 (478 socket) 2.54GZ uses?
| As it is that and a new video-card that must share the 26A on the 12V
| (as I have been told the total wattage is less than my Ti-4200 card,
| but the load is moved from the 3.3/5V rail to the 12V rail instead.
<[email protected]> wrote in message ...
| Phil Weldon wrote:
|
| > Just estimating, but the TOTAL power consumption of your present system
is
| > likely about 200 Watts. So it is likely that you can get by with your
| > present power supply, even after installing a nVidia 7600GS replacing
the
| > Ti-4200. Your present system has very little hardware installed, the
only
| > two power hungry devices are the CPU and the display adapter.
|
| Do you have any idea on how much Amps the P4 (478 socket) 2.54GZ uses?
| As it is that and a new video-card that must share the 26A on the 12V
| (as I have been told the total wattage is less than my Ti-4200 card,
| but the load is moved from the 3.3/5V rail to the 12V rail instead.
|
| > | +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
| > | 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W
|
| So the question is. Is 26A enough for CPU + 7600GS + HDD + DVD-RW?
| (ok, the mainboard with S-ATA controller and LAN also uses 12V or?)
| --
| Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
| XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Lars-Erik ěsterud
January 15th 07, 03:01 PM
> +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5Vsb Total
> 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2.2A 350W
> ----185W---- 312W 5W 12W 11W
> --------322W-------- --------28W--------- 350W

Just for the fun of it I hooked up a power meter between the wall
outlet and the extension cord to the PC (with cable-modem, router and
sub-woofer on same extension cord, so I'll have to subract for those)

Idle: 120-123W
Peak: 194W

With an effenciy factor of 80% (very optimistic for an old PSU)
that would give a max power consumption for my system of 155W.

And that's far from what the PSI is supposed to have as max
(it's not more that it could be drawn single for any line).

So if the 7600GS draws even the same (but from another line)
it would still be under HALF the max power output of the PSU

I'm more worried about the heat now. My new HDD and the CPU
generates a lot of heat when stressing the system. Today I have
a NV-silencer on my Ti-4200 card so that air is blown straight
out (and it is HOT). With a new card w/o external exhaust that
heat would have to pass the CPU and part of it the PSU on the
way out. Well, well. The Ti-4200 DID work with standard fan.
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Phil Weldon
January 15th 07, 08:44 PM
'Lars-Erik ěsterud' wrote, in part:
| Just for the fun of it I hooked up a power meter between the wall
| outlet and the extension cord to the PC (with cable-modem, router and
| sub-woofer on same extension cord, so I'll have to subract for those)
|
| Idle: 120-123W
| Peak: 194W
_____

Congratulations on going to direct experiment.

Essentially ALL the electrical power drawn by your computer system is
dissipated within the system case (all except the very very very small
amount of electrical power conducted by the video and audio out signals.)

Changing from one display adapter to another that uses the same amount of
electrical power will make no difference in the heat load.

Phil Weldon

"Lars-Erik ěsterud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
|> +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5Vsb Total
| > 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2.2A 350W
| > ----185W---- 312W 5W 12W 11W
| > --------322W-------- --------28W--------- 350W
|
| Just for the fun of it I hooked up a power meter between the wall
| outlet and the extension cord to the PC (with cable-modem, router and
| sub-woofer on same extension cord, so I'll have to subract for those)
|
| Idle: 120-123W
| Peak: 194W
|
| With an effenciy factor of 80% (very optimistic for an old PSU)
| that would give a max power consumption for my system of 155W.
|
| And that's far from what the PSI is supposed to have as max
| (it's not more that it could be drawn single for any line).
|
| So if the 7600GS draws even the same (but from another line)
| it would still be under HALF the max power output of the PSU
|
| I'm more worried about the heat now. My new HDD and the CPU
| generates a lot of heat when stressing the system. Today I have
| a NV-silencer on my Ti-4200 card so that air is blown straight
| out (and it is HOT). With a new card w/o external exhaust that
| heat would have to pass the CPU and part of it the PSU on the
| way out. Well, well. The Ti-4200 DID work with standard fan.
| --
| Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
| XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Lars-Erik ěsterud
January 15th 07, 09:08 PM
Phil Weldon wrote:

> Changing from one display adapter to another that uses the same amount of
> electrical power will make no difference in the heat load.

Not all true. On my Ti-4200 card I replaced the orginal fan (noisy as
h**l) with a NV-silencer with external exhaust (blows the warn air out
of the case). A new 6700GS does not have that (and I haven't seen it
for that card either). The ATI 1600 and 1650 do have external exhaust

So the 45W of heat (or so) from the 6700GS will flow passed the CPU
and out partly through the case fan and partly throgh the PSU fan.
And that is what worries me. How much will that raise the case temp?
And a raise in the case temp will also lower the CPU/PSU cooling...
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

First of One
January 16th 07, 02:22 AM
There's sufficient air volume inside your case that 45 W of heat will cause
a negligible rise in temperatures. You worry too much. The way this is going
you should look at EMI effects as well, since the 7600GS runs at a
considerably higher clock speed... :-)

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"Lars-Erik ěsterud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
.. .
> Phil Weldon wrote:
>
>> Changing from one display adapter to another that uses the same amount of
>> electrical power will make no difference in the heat load.
>
> Not all true. On my Ti-4200 card I replaced the orginal fan (noisy as
> h**l) with a NV-silencer with external exhaust (blows the warn air out
> of the case). A new 6700GS does not have that (and I haven't seen it
> for that card either). The ATI 1600 and 1650 do have external exhaust
>
> So the 45W of heat (or so) from the 6700GS will flow passed the CPU
> and out partly through the case fan and partly throgh the PSU fan.
> And that is what worries me. How much will that raise the case temp?
> And a raise in the case temp will also lower the CPU/PSU cooling...
> --
> Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
> XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Lars-Erik ěsterud
January 16th 07, 02:36 AM
First of One wrote:

> You worry too much

I know :-( It's genetic I think :-)

Can spend days deciding anything, even if it's only a small cost :-)
Don't really know why, as an IT-pro in Norway, that's not a problem

But now I have ordered an MSI 7600GS 256MB AGP, so we'll see :-)

Why worry, if it doesn't work I have my Ti-4200 and in Norway you have
14-days in which you can return anything bough on internet/mail/phone
without having to give any reason (even if you have tested it).

And if it doesn't work it's a product fault as well as my system DO
match the specs (my PSU does have a 26A 12V line), so it's not really
my problem anyway (thanks God for strong buyers right over here :-)
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Phil Weldon
January 16th 07, 04:15 AM
'Lars-Erik ěsterud' wrote, in part
| Not all true. On my Ti-4200 card I replaced the orginal fan (noisy as
| h**l) with a NV-silencer with external exhaust (blows the warn air out
| of the case). A new 6700GS does not have that (and I haven't seen it
| for that card either). The ATI 1600 and 1650 do have external exhaust
_____

Yes, it is completely true. The heat load is equal to the power dissapated.
In both setups the same amount of heat is generated inside the system case.
The same amount of heat must be moved from within the system case to outside
the system case.

If you are still concerned, add another case fan. Or, as you are in Norway,
cooling should be no problem, just vent outside air into the system case B^
Were you living in Miami the you would have enjoyed a high today of 32 C
with a low predicted at 24 C. Imagine how much more cooling capacity is
necessary there. Even just using your normal room ambient temperature is
likely to be much lower than the normal room ambient temperature in a South
Florida home.

Phil Weldon

"Lars-Erik ěsterud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
.. .
| Phil Weldon wrote:
|
| > Changing from one display adapter to another that uses the same amount
of
| > electrical power will make no difference in the heat load.
|
| Not all true. On my Ti-4200 card I replaced the orginal fan (noisy as
| h**l) with a NV-silencer with external exhaust (blows the warn air out
| of the case). A new 6700GS does not have that (and I haven't seen it
| for that card either). The ATI 1600 and 1650 do have external exhaust
|
| So the 45W of heat (or so) from the 6700GS will flow passed the CPU
| and out partly through the case fan and partly throgh the PSU fan.
| And that is what worries me. How much will that raise the case temp?
| And a raise in the case temp will also lower the CPU/PSU cooling...
| --
| Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
| XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

DaveW
January 17th 07, 12:52 AM
Those listed electrical values are the values of the PSU at room
temperature. As the load on the PSU goes up during useage, the available
power drops as the temp of the PSU rises. So it is NOT as simple as just
using a chart.

--
DaveW

----------------
"Lars-Erik ěsterud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
> Anyoneout there have a clue about calculation power consumption?
>
> Before I buy a new PSU I had a look at my old one.
>
> It's a Enermax 350W and the label states these specs:
>
> Enermax EG365P-VE
>
> +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
> 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W
>
> 105W 160W 312W 5W 12W 11W 185W 350W
>
> The last line is my calculated Watts for the lines,
> strange that the sum of the individual lines is much
> higher than the total (it's not on new PSUs). Is this
> something fishy, or what does that really tell you?
>
> As you see it has only one 12V line, and this today powers:
>
> - Asus P4PE mainboard (with Promise S-ATA raid ctrlr)
> - Intel P4 2.54 Ghz (478 socket) with stock fan
> - Creative SB Live 1024 PCI sound card
> - Plextor PX-716A DVD-writer
> - Samsung Spinpoint 120 250GB S-ATA harddisk
> - Asus V8440 Nvidia Ti-4200 video card
>
> Now, if I replace the video card with a 7600GS
> will this work, or will my PSU give up on me.
>
> How much Amps will the other stuff in my rig use?
> It's the CPU that takes most juice here, right?
>
> Is there any tables or any experiences that would
> help me calculate this? Or do I need a new PSU?
> --
> Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
> XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

Lars-Erik ěsterud
January 17th 07, 01:15 AM
DaveW wrote:

> Those listed electrical values are the values of the PSU at room
> temperature. As the load on the PSU goes up during useage, the available
> power drops as the temp of the PSU rises. So it is NOT as simple as just

That's true. But that is true for all PSUs right?
So with a 26A 12V line that is a reference.
Others have 2x 18A 12V lines.
So then I have 26A - CPU need = amps for the rest
(and if that rest is >18A then is as good as the others)
So how much does a P4 2.54GHz use a max?

I measured the effect in to the PSU today as max 190 watts
With an effenency of 80% that indicates a use of 150 watts internal
And if the PSU is rated at 350W (with 322W combined 3.3/5/12) that
should indicate it is only delivering half of what it could.

And the 7600GS is not using more power than my current Ti-4200, but
the load is moved from 3.3/5V to 12V, but since they share a max usage
of 322W on my PSU (with max 185W on 3.3/5 and max 312V on 12V)
shouldn't that indicate that the load on the PSU should be the same?

The 7600GS uses max 45W so the there is max ca 250W left for my CPU,
mainboard, harddisk and DVD-writer. Shouldn't that be enough?

What will happend if the PSU can't deliver for some reason?
Will I see that on the voltages (will I see a drop before hazard?)
Will anything get damaged (video-card, mailboard, CPU) or....
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live

First of One
January 17th 07, 03:32 AM
"Lars-Erik ěsterud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
. ..
> DaveW wrote:
>
>> Those listed electrical values are the values of the PSU at room
>> temperature. As the load on the PSU goes up during useage, the available
>> power drops as the temp of the PSU rises. So it is NOT as simple as just

I thought you have learned by now that DaveW is full of ****.

> What will happend if the PSU can't deliver for some reason?
> Will I see that on the voltages (will I see a drop before hazard?)
> Will anything get damaged (video-card, mailboard, CPU) or....

Yes, the PSU will start emitting low-frequency EM waves which can no longer
be contained in the PSU casing and will render you sterile... Jokes aside,
modern PSUs have overload protection and will simply shut down if the
current draw is too high. This mechanism is needed to protect against
short-circuits, after all.

If the PSU "can't deliver for some reason", your system will just crash or
lock up in the middle of a game. No big deal.

Remember, those PC component designers aren't stupid. I once pried off two
resistors on my 9800 Pro with a screwdriver by accident. The card continued
to work, overclocked too.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

Phil Weldon
January 17th 07, 05:06 AM
'First of One' wrote, in part:
| Remember, those PC component designers aren't stupid. I once pried off two
| resistors on my 9800 Pro with a screwdriver by accident. The card
continued
| to work, overclocked too.
_____

And I've dropped a 'greenie' screwdriver into an operating motherboard more
times than I should. NOT recommended practice, but just a supporting
example for your statements.

Phil Weldon

"First of One" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
| "Lars-Erik ěsterud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| . ..
| > DaveW wrote:
| >
| >> Those listed electrical values are the values of the PSU at room
| >> temperature. As the load on the PSU goes up during useage, the
available
| >> power drops as the temp of the PSU rises. So it is NOT as simple as
just
|
| I thought you have learned by now that DaveW is full of ****.
|
| > What will happend if the PSU can't deliver for some reason?
| > Will I see that on the voltages (will I see a drop before hazard?)
| > Will anything get damaged (video-card, mailboard, CPU) or....
|
| Yes, the PSU will start emitting low-frequency EM waves which can no
longer
| be contained in the PSU casing and will render you sterile... Jokes aside,
| modern PSUs have overload protection and will simply shut down if the
| current draw is too high. This mechanism is needed to protect against
| short-circuits, after all.
|
| If the PSU "can't deliver for some reason", your system will just crash or
| lock up in the middle of a game. No big deal.
|
| Remember, those PC component designers aren't stupid. I once pried off two
| resistors on my 9800 Pro with a screwdriver by accident. The card
continued
| to work, overclocked too.
|
| --
| "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
| It can therefore be said that politics is war without
| bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
|
|