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July 16th 06, 07:45 PM
Two of us are in slight contention over possible damage to a computer.
We are hoping that the collective brains of this group might resolve
the issue. Both of us have agreed this text. One of us is A. and lives
in the same building as B, the owner of the computer. At issue is:

What is the probability that by his actions A caused the damage
described to B's computer.

WHAT A. DID. A number of wires passed through a conservatory roof
where A lives. These were mainly phone cables but also two TV aerial
cables. Most of the phone wires went into a junction box then out of
the junction box and back out through the roof. One of the points
where the wires passed through the roof allowed rainwater to leak into
the building. Knowing some of the wires to be redundant and believing
them all to be so A. cut through them all and pulled them all back
outside the roof. The two holes were then sealed.

WHAT B. DID. On the same morning that A. did the above, B. tried to
make a phone call but was unable and reported a fault to the phone
engineer. On further investigatation B. discovered his phone wires
were cut. "Gosh!" thought B. B. met A. and enquired after the state of
A's phone, whereupon A. explained what he had done. "Oh dear!" they
both said.

WHAT A. AND B. THEN DID. They agreed that, between the two of them,
they might manage to re-establish B's connection by trial and error.
From among the tangle of chopped wires they believed they might be
able to reverse the vasectomy. At first attempt they got a dialling
tone, albeit with some background noise. At this point they believed
they had basically solved the problem, even though B was still unable
to make or receive a calls.

WHAT B. THEN DID. B. decided to test his internet connection. B.
connected his modem to his pc and booted up in the usual manner.
Boot-up went as normal, and everything appeared OK. However, when B.
tried to go online [AOL broadband] it appeared that there was no
connection. B. thought no more of the matter and pottered about for
about an hour. On returning to his pc the screen was all white with
grey vertical bands and some red stripes.

Next day an engineer put the matter right. What A and B had in fact
done was reconnect to the wrong line. However, even with the now
properly restored phone connection B's pc still had the weird grey
with red stripes display. Seeking advice among friends the view seemed
to be a knackered video card. One person suggested that if the
incorrect connection had been to an ISDN line, "which carries twice
the voltage of a normal phone line" that could somehow have fried the
video card's brain. A different monitor was tried with the same
result, thus eliminating the monitor as the problem.

THEREFORE: I refer the right honourable members to my initial
question; what is the probability that A damaged B's computer or B's
video card either by a] initially chopping through the wires or b] by
inadvertently connecting them to the wrong ones?

B's pc is a Pentium iv, slot one running on XP. The video card is an
Nvidia GForce 4.

Many thanks for any help and/or advice!

A. and B.

Phil Weldon
July 16th 06, 08:58 PM
'A. and B.' wrote, in part:
| What is the probability that by his actions A caused the damage
| described to B's computer.

Try posing your question again.
Eliminate the irrelevant information.
Don't make the post a committee effort.
Ask a straightforward question.

Phil Weldon

> wrote in message
...
| Two of us are in slight contention over possible damage to a computer.
| We are hoping that the collective brains of this group might resolve
| the issue. Both of us have agreed this text. One of us is A. and lives
| in the same building as B, the owner of the computer. At issue is:
|
|
| WHAT A. DID. A number of wires passed through a conservatory roof
| where A lives. These were mainly phone cables but also two TV aerial
| cables. Most of the phone wires went into a junction box then out of
| the junction box and back out through the roof. One of the points
| where the wires passed through the roof allowed rainwater to leak into
| the building. Knowing some of the wires to be redundant and believing
| them all to be so A. cut through them all and pulled them all back
| outside the roof. The two holes were then sealed.
|
| WHAT B. DID. On the same morning that A. did the above, B. tried to
| make a phone call but was unable and reported a fault to the phone
| engineer. On further investigatation B. discovered his phone wires
| were cut. "Gosh!" thought B. B. met A. and enquired after the state of
| A's phone, whereupon A. explained what he had done. "Oh dear!" they
| both said.
|
| WHAT A. AND B. THEN DID. They agreed that, between the two of them,
| they might manage to re-establish B's connection by trial and error.
| From among the tangle of chopped wires they believed they might be
| able to reverse the vasectomy. At first attempt they got a dialling
| tone, albeit with some background noise. At this point they believed
| they had basically solved the problem, even though B was still unable
| to make or receive a calls.
|
| WHAT B. THEN DID. B. decided to test his internet connection. B.
| connected his modem to his pc and booted up in the usual manner.
| Boot-up went as normal, and everything appeared OK. However, when B.
| tried to go online [AOL broadband] it appeared that there was no
| connection. B. thought no more of the matter and pottered about for
| about an hour. On returning to his pc the screen was all white with
| grey vertical bands and some red stripes.
|
| Next day an engineer put the matter right. What A and B had in fact
| done was reconnect to the wrong line. However, even with the now
| properly restored phone connection B's pc still had the weird grey
| with red stripes display. Seeking advice among friends the view seemed
| to be a knackered video card. One person suggested that if the
| incorrect connection had been to an ISDN line, "which carries twice
| the voltage of a normal phone line" that could somehow have fried the
| video card's brain. A different monitor was tried with the same
| result, thus eliminating the monitor as the problem.
|
| THEREFORE: I refer the right honourable members to my initial
| question; what is the probability that A damaged B's computer or B's
| video card either by a] initially chopping through the wires or b] by
| inadvertently connecting them to the wrong ones?
|
| B's pc is a Pentium iv, slot one running on XP. The video card is an
| Nvidia GForce 4.
|
| Many thanks for any help and/or advice!
|
| A. and B.
|
|
|

pjp
July 16th 06, 11:55 PM
I would have thought at worst a fried modem but who knows???

> wrote in message
...
> Two of us are in slight contention over possible damage to a computer.
> We are hoping that the collective brains of this group might resolve
> the issue. Both of us have agreed this text. One of us is A. and lives
> in the same building as B, the owner of the computer. At issue is:
>
> What is the probability that by his actions A caused the damage
> described to B's computer.
>
> WHAT A. DID. A number of wires passed through a conservatory roof
> where A lives. These were mainly phone cables but also two TV aerial
> cables. Most of the phone wires went into a junction box then out of
> the junction box and back out through the roof. One of the points
> where the wires passed through the roof allowed rainwater to leak into
> the building. Knowing some of the wires to be redundant and believing
> them all to be so A. cut through them all and pulled them all back
> outside the roof. The two holes were then sealed.
>
> WHAT B. DID. On the same morning that A. did the above, B. tried to
> make a phone call but was unable and reported a fault to the phone
> engineer. On further investigatation B. discovered his phone wires
> were cut. "Gosh!" thought B. B. met A. and enquired after the state of
> A's phone, whereupon A. explained what he had done. "Oh dear!" they
> both said.
>
> WHAT A. AND B. THEN DID. They agreed that, between the two of them,
> they might manage to re-establish B's connection by trial and error.
> From among the tangle of chopped wires they believed they might be
> able to reverse the vasectomy. At first attempt they got a dialling
> tone, albeit with some background noise. At this point they believed
> they had basically solved the problem, even though B was still unable
> to make or receive a calls.
>
> WHAT B. THEN DID. B. decided to test his internet connection. B.
> connected his modem to his pc and booted up in the usual manner.
> Boot-up went as normal, and everything appeared OK. However, when B.
> tried to go online [AOL broadband] it appeared that there was no
> connection. B. thought no more of the matter and pottered about for
> about an hour. On returning to his pc the screen was all white with
> grey vertical bands and some red stripes.
>
> Next day an engineer put the matter right. What A and B had in fact
> done was reconnect to the wrong line. However, even with the now
> properly restored phone connection B's pc still had the weird grey
> with red stripes display. Seeking advice among friends the view seemed
> to be a knackered video card. One person suggested that if the
> incorrect connection had been to an ISDN line, "which carries twice
> the voltage of a normal phone line" that could somehow have fried the
> video card's brain. A different monitor was tried with the same
> result, thus eliminating the monitor as the problem.
>
> THEREFORE: I refer the right honourable members to my initial
> question; what is the probability that A damaged B's computer or B's
> video card either by a] initially chopping through the wires or b] by
> inadvertently connecting them to the wrong ones?
>
> B's pc is a Pentium iv, slot one running on XP. The video card is an
> Nvidia GForce 4.
>
> Many thanks for any help and/or advice!
>
> A. and B.
>
>
>

J. Clarke
July 17th 06, 01:54 AM
wrote:

> Two of us are in slight contention over possible damage to a computer.
> We are hoping that the collective brains of this group might resolve
> the issue. Both of us have agreed this text. One of us is A. and lives
> in the same building as B, the owner of the computer. At issue is:
>
> What is the probability that by his actions A caused the damage
> described to B's computer.
>
> WHAT A. DID. A number of wires passed through a conservatory roof
> where A lives. These were mainly phone cables but also two TV aerial
> cables. Most of the phone wires went into a junction box then out of
> the junction box and back out through the roof. One of the points
> where the wires passed through the roof allowed rainwater to leak into
> the building. Knowing some of the wires to be redundant and believing
> them all to be so A. cut through them all and pulled them all back
> outside the roof. The two holes were then sealed.
>
> WHAT B. DID. On the same morning that A. did the above, B. tried to
> make a phone call but was unable and reported a fault to the phone
> engineer. On further investigatation B. discovered his phone wires
> were cut. "Gosh!" thought B. B. met A. and enquired after the state of
> A's phone, whereupon A. explained what he had done. "Oh dear!" they
> both said.
>
> WHAT A. AND B. THEN DID. They agreed that, between the two of them,
> they might manage to re-establish B's connection by trial and error.
> From among the tangle of chopped wires they believed they might be
> able to reverse the vasectomy. At first attempt they got a dialling
> tone, albeit with some background noise. At this point they believed
> they had basically solved the problem, even though B was still unable
> to make or receive a calls.
>
> WHAT B. THEN DID. B. decided to test his internet connection. B.
> connected his modem to his pc and booted up in the usual manner.
> Boot-up went as normal, and everything appeared OK. However, when B.
> tried to go online [AOL broadband] it appeared that there was no
> connection. B. thought no more of the matter and pottered about for
> about an hour. On returning to his pc the screen was all white with
> grey vertical bands and some red stripes.
>
> Next day an engineer put the matter right. What A and B had in fact
> done was reconnect to the wrong line. However, even with the now
> properly restored phone connection B's pc still had the weird grey
> with red stripes display. Seeking advice among friends the view seemed
> to be a knackered video card. One person suggested that if the
> incorrect connection had been to an ISDN line, "which carries twice
> the voltage of a normal phone line" that could somehow have fried the
> video card's brain. A different monitor was tried with the same
> result, thus eliminating the monitor as the problem.
>
> THEREFORE: I refer the right honourable members to my initial
> question; what is the probability that A damaged B's computer or B's
> video card either by a] initially chopping through the wires or b] by
> inadvertently connecting them to the wrong ones?
>
> B's pc is a Pentium iv, slot one running on XP. The video card is an
> Nvidia GForce 4.
>
> Many thanks for any help and/or advice!

The probability of damaging the video board under the circumstances you
describe without damaging a lot of other stuff including the modem is
vanishingly small unless there's something very unusual about the way the
video board is connected. I don't want to quite say it's impossible but I
would be hard-pressed to come up with a mechanism by which it could happen.

Dumb question--did you shut the machine down, unplug it from the mains, let
it sit for a couple of minutes and then power it back up? If not, try
that. Make sure you unplug it and wait at least a full minute by the
clock.


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Conor
July 17th 06, 02:20 AM
In article >, says...

> One person suggested that if the
> incorrect connection had been to an ISDN line, "which carries twice
> the voltage of a normal phone line" that could somehow have fried the
> video card's brain.

Well that's pure bull**** for a start.

--
Conor

"I have as much authority as the pope, I just
don't have as many people who believe it" - George Carlin

Carl
July 17th 06, 04:25 AM
is the modem a usb one? it wouldn't have been connected to a monitor through
usb ports on the monitor??

July 17th 06, 07:56 AM
Thanks for the post pip

Duncan

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:55:35 GMT, "pjp"
> wrote:

>I would have thought at worst a fried modem but who knows???
>
> wrote in message
...
>> Two of us are in slight contention over possible damage to a computer.
>> We are hoping that the collective brains of this group might resolve
>> the issue. Both of us have agreed this text. One of us is A. and lives
>> in the same building as B, the owner of the computer. At issue is:
>>
>> What is the probability that by his actions A caused the damage
>> described to B's computer.
>>
>> WHAT A. DID. A number of wires passed through a conservatory roof
>> where A lives. These were mainly phone cables but also two TV aerial
>> cables. Most of the phone wires went into a junction box then out of
>> the junction box and back out through the roof. One of the points
>> where the wires passed through the roof allowed rainwater to leak into
>> the building. Knowing some of the wires to be redundant and believing
>> them all to be so A. cut through them all and pulled them all back
>> outside the roof. The two holes were then sealed.
>>
>> WHAT B. DID. On the same morning that A. did the above, B. tried to
>> make a phone call but was unable and reported a fault to the phone
>> engineer. On further investigatation B. discovered his phone wires
>> were cut. "Gosh!" thought B. B. met A. and enquired after the state of
>> A's phone, whereupon A. explained what he had done. "Oh dear!" they
>> both said.
>>
>> WHAT A. AND B. THEN DID. They agreed that, between the two of them,
>> they might manage to re-establish B's connection by trial and error.
>> From among the tangle of chopped wires they believed they might be
>> able to reverse the vasectomy. At first attempt they got a dialling
>> tone, albeit with some background noise. At this point they believed
>> they had basically solved the problem, even though B was still unable
>> to make or receive a calls.
>>
>> WHAT B. THEN DID. B. decided to test his internet connection. B.
>> connected his modem to his pc and booted up in the usual manner.
>> Boot-up went as normal, and everything appeared OK. However, when B.
>> tried to go online [AOL broadband] it appeared that there was no
>> connection. B. thought no more of the matter and pottered about for
>> about an hour. On returning to his pc the screen was all white with
>> grey vertical bands and some red stripes.
>>
>> Next day an engineer put the matter right. What A and B had in fact
>> done was reconnect to the wrong line. However, even with the now
>> properly restored phone connection B's pc still had the weird grey
>> with red stripes display. Seeking advice among friends the view seemed
>> to be a knackered video card. One person suggested that if the
>> incorrect connection had been to an ISDN line, "which carries twice
>> the voltage of a normal phone line" that could somehow have fried the
>> video card's brain. A different monitor was tried with the same
>> result, thus eliminating the monitor as the problem.
>>
>> THEREFORE: I refer the right honourable members to my initial
>> question; what is the probability that A damaged B's computer or B's
>> video card either by a] initially chopping through the wires or b] by
>> inadvertently connecting them to the wrong ones?
>>
>> B's pc is a Pentium iv, slot one running on XP. The video card is an
>> Nvidia GForce 4.
>>
>> Many thanks for any help and/or advice!
>>
>> A. and B.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

July 17th 06, 07:59 AM
Thanks for the post John


>The probability of damaging the video board under the circumstances you
>describe without damaging a lot of other stuff including the modem is
>vanishingly small unless there's something very unusual about the way the
>video board is connected. I don't want to quite say it's impossible but I
>would be hard-pressed to come up with a mechanism by which it could happen.

>Dumb question--did you shut the machine down, unplug it from the mains, let
>it sit for a couple of minutes and then power it back up? If not, try
>that. Make sure you unplug it and wait at least a full minute by the
>clock.

Doesn't strike me as a dumb question! - not half as dumb as chopping
through a bunch of live phone wires! and I should know as I was the
chopper! But I will pass on your suggestion about unplugging etc.
We're going to put in a different video card to try and eliminate
another variable.

Thanks again

Duncan

July 17th 06, 08:01 AM
Thanks for the post Carl. I'm not sure about the answer, but I assume
it was connected via usb to the pc. But I'll ask. Meanwhile we are
going to put in a different video card and see if that does the trick.
Thanks again

Duncan

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:25:50 +0100, "Carl" >
wrote:

>is the modem a usb one? it wouldn't have been connected to a monitor through
>usb ports on the monitor??
>
>

Rocky
July 17th 06, 12:07 PM
> wrote in message
...
> Two of us are in slight contention over possible damage to a computer.
> We are hoping that the collective brains of this group might resolve
> the issue. Both of us have agreed this text. One of us is A. and lives
> in the same building as B, the owner of the computer. At issue is:
>
> What is the probability that by his actions A caused the damage
> described to B's computer.

This is quite simple. The entire episode is due to the initial (rather
silly) actions of A, therefore the probability is high the A (whether
directly or indirectly) is responsible for the damage to said computer,
based on .....


>
> WHAT A. DID.Knowing some of the wires to be redundant and believing
> them all to be so A. cut through them all

..... in best simpson-esque .... DOH!!!

Al.

First of One
July 18th 06, 03:25 AM
The solution is indeed quite trivial. B shall sleep with A's wife for said
number of days commensurate with the number of wires A inadvertently cut, as
compensation for B's loss of productivity.

In counterpoint, however, B is attempting to use AOL...

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

> wrote in message
...
> Two of us are in slight contention over possible damage to a computer.
> We are hoping that the collective brains of this group might resolve
> the issue. Both of us have agreed this text. One of us is A. and lives
> in the same building as B, the owner of the computer. At issue is:
>
> What is the probability that by his actions A caused the damage
> described to B's computer.
>
> WHAT A. DID. A number of wires passed through a conservatory roof
> where A lives. These were mainly phone cables but also two TV aerial
> cables. Most of the phone wires went into a junction box then out of
> the junction box and back out through the roof. One of the points
> where the wires passed through the roof allowed rainwater to leak into
> the building. Knowing some of the wires to be redundant and believing
> them all to be so A. cut through them all and pulled them all back
> outside the roof. The two holes were then sealed.
>
> WHAT B. DID. On the same morning that A. did the above, B. tried to
> make a phone call but was unable and reported a fault to the phone
> engineer. On further investigatation B. discovered his phone wires
> were cut. "Gosh!" thought B. B. met A. and enquired after the state of
> A's phone, whereupon A. explained what he had done. "Oh dear!" they
> both said.
>
> WHAT A. AND B. THEN DID. They agreed that, between the two of them,
> they might manage to re-establish B's connection by trial and error.
> From among the tangle of chopped wires they believed they might be
> able to reverse the vasectomy. At first attempt they got a dialling
> tone, albeit with some background noise. At this point they believed
> they had basically solved the problem, even though B was still unable
> to make or receive a calls.
>
> WHAT B. THEN DID. B. decided to test his internet connection. B.
> connected his modem to his pc and booted up in the usual manner.
> Boot-up went as normal, and everything appeared OK. However, when B.
> tried to go online [AOL broadband] it appeared that there was no
> connection. B. thought no more of the matter and pottered about for
> about an hour. On returning to his pc the screen was all white with
> grey vertical bands and some red stripes.
>
> Next day an engineer put the matter right. What A and B had in fact
> done was reconnect to the wrong line. However, even with the now
> properly restored phone connection B's pc still had the weird grey
> with red stripes display. Seeking advice among friends the view seemed
> to be a knackered video card. One person suggested that if the
> incorrect connection had been to an ISDN line, "which carries twice
> the voltage of a normal phone line" that could somehow have fried the
> video card's brain. A different monitor was tried with the same
> result, thus eliminating the monitor as the problem.
>
> THEREFORE: I refer the right honourable members to my initial
> question; what is the probability that A damaged B's computer or B's
> video card either by a] initially chopping through the wires or b] by
> inadvertently connecting them to the wrong ones?
>
> B's pc is a Pentium iv, slot one running on XP. The video card is an
> Nvidia GForce 4.
>
> Many thanks for any help and/or advice!
>
> A. and B.
>
>
>

Spack
July 19th 06, 01:54 PM
wrote on Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:45:35 GMT:

> WHAT B. THEN DID. B. decided to test his internet connection. B.
> connected his modem to his pc and booted up in the usual manner.
> Boot-up went as normal, and everything appeared OK. However, when B.
> tried to go online [AOL broadband] it appeared that there was no
> connection. B. thought no more of the matter and pottered about for
> about an hour. On returning to his pc the screen was all white with
> grey vertical bands and some red stripes.

If B did this within the past couple of weeks (with the weather being the
way it is here in the UK, and assuming A and B are in the UK given the OPs
posting location), I would suggest that B's computer had inadequate cooling
and overheating has fried the card. I would expect that plugging a USB modem
into a faulty line would only damage the graphics card if it also damanged
the modem and motherboard, and probably everything else inside the PC due to
some sort of electrical overload - to get to the graphics card the current
would have to go via the motherboard.

Dan

Dean Jarratt
July 20th 06, 04:51 PM
Snip A and B...oops A already did that ;)

Here's a theory.

Let's assume that the internal modem, to which some potentially over-volted
wire was attached is a PCI device.

Let's also assume that the display card in question is also a PCI device.

Given the two constants we know that the two devices use the same PCI bus
on the motherboard.

It is quite feasible that the PCI bus is now faulty, due to 'higher than
normal' voltage being passed through it. If this is the case, a replacement
PCI video card may also show signs of the same corruption.

My gut feeling is that the PCI bus and hence the motherboard is now faulty.
I would also assume that any other PCI devices would be working
inconsistently.

....and if it's an AGP card...damn it, I'm still gonna say the mobo is
faulty.

Give us an update...