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Pete9
July 5th 06, 12:12 PM
Hello. I'm currently using an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and I'd like to upgrade.
Does anyone know what the most powerful AGP graphics card on the market it
and whether it would be cause a significant improvement in performance over
my existing card? I'm not particularly bothered about the manufacturer.
Also the processor is a Pentium4 2.6Ghz so bare in mind this may be a
bottleneck.
Thanks.

July 5th 06, 03:13 PM
Pete9 wrote:
> Hello. I'm currently using an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and I'd like to upgrade.
> Does anyone know what the most powerful AGP graphics card on the market it
> and whether it would be cause a significant improvement in performance over
> my existing card? I'm not particularly bothered about the manufacturer.
> Also the processor is a Pentium4 2.6Ghz so bare in mind this may be a
> bottleneck.
> Thanks.


Given your current processor, I think a good match would be a 6800 (GS,
GT, or Ultra) if you want to go Nvidia. On the ATI side, I'm thinking
an X800 GTO or a X1600. Anything more might be bottlenecked by the
rest of your system. Out of all here, I'd probably look for a 6800 GS
if you can find one, as they generally cost about $170-$180 and can
often be unlocked and overclocked to GT or greater specs.

Of course, you could also save up a few more $ and replace your AGP
board with a PCIe board and new processor. This way, you'd have a
faster and more current all-around system, and your choices of graphics
cards would be better. But that would cost more $ and I do understand
that is not always an option!

Post here if you narrow down your video card choices and want more
specific advice.

July 6th 06, 04:25 PM
Alexander Freudenberg wrote:
> "Pete9" > schrieb
> > I'm currently using an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and I'd like to upgrade.
> > Does anyone know what the most powerful AGP graphics card on
> > the market it and whether it would be cause a significant improvement
> > in performance over my existing card?
>
> I recently upgraded from a 9800 Pro to a GeForce 7800 GS and I'm very
> satisfied with my decision. Depending on the application I could double
> the frame rate. (P4 3200)
> Today I would probably buy a Gainward Bliss 7800 GS (it's a 7800 GT with
> 512 MB RAM for AGP)
>
> AF.

Obviously, the GB 7800 GS is a nice card!... But at $600, it seems way
out of line to add to a P4 2.6ghz system!!! I recommended a card that
would work almost as well (due to the bottlenecks of the system) and
costs less than 1/3 the price... Certainly, a 6800 GS/GT will double
framerates of a 9800. If the op really has that kind of cash to spend
on an upgrade, I'd be recommending a new PCI-e board, processor and
card. There's no way I'd spend $600 on a AGP card at this point, as it
is already dead-end technology.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not putting down the 7800 GS. again, it's a
great card and I'd love to have one! But I just can't come up with a
reason why anyone would pour that much $ into an AGP upgrade, when a
more powerful PCI-e system could be built for the same amount or less
$.

-CK

bandit
July 6th 06, 11:23 PM
On 6 Jul 2006 08:25:34 -0700, wrote:

>
>Alexander Freudenberg wrote:
>> "Pete9" > schrieb
>> > I'm currently using an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and I'd like to upgrade.
>> > Does anyone know what the most powerful AGP graphics card on
>> > the market it and whether it would be cause a significant improvement
>> > in performance over my existing card?
>>
>> I recently upgraded from a 9800 Pro to a GeForce 7800 GS and I'm very
>> satisfied with my decision. Depending on the application I could double
>> the frame rate. (P4 3200)
>> Today I would probably buy a Gainward Bliss 7800 GS (it's a 7800 GT with
>> 512 MB RAM for AGP)
>>
>> AF.
>
>Obviously, the GB 7800 GS is a nice card!... But at $600, it seems way
>out of line to add to a P4 2.6ghz system!!! I recommended a card that
>would work almost as well (due to the bottlenecks of the system) and
>costs less than 1/3 the price... Certainly, a 6800 GS/GT will double
>framerates of a 9800. If the op really has that kind of cash to spend
>on an upgrade, I'd be recommending a new PCI-e board, processor and
>card. There's no way I'd spend $600 on a AGP card at this point, as it
>is already dead-end technology.
>
>Don't get me wrong - I'm not putting down the 7800 GS. again, it's a
>great card and I'd love to have one! But I just can't come up with a
>reason why anyone would pour that much $ into an AGP upgrade, when a
>more powerful PCI-e system could be built for the same amount or less
>$.
>
>-CK

something like this would be better for him and its not $600 dollars

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130269

Pete9
July 7th 06, 10:13 AM
"bandit" > wrote in message
...
> On 6 Jul 2006 08:25:34 -0700, wrote:
>
>>
>>Alexander Freudenberg wrote:
>>> "Pete9" > schrieb
>>> > I'm currently using an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and I'd like to upgrade.
>>> > Does anyone know what the most powerful AGP graphics card on
>>> > the market it and whether it would be cause a significant improvement
>>> > in performance over my existing card?
>>>
>>> I recently upgraded from a 9800 Pro to a GeForce 7800 GS and I'm very
>>> satisfied with my decision. Depending on the application I could double
>>> the frame rate. (P4 3200)
>>> Today I would probably buy a Gainward Bliss 7800 GS (it's a 7800 GT with
>>> 512 MB RAM for AGP)
>>>
>>> AF.
>>
>>Obviously, the GB 7800 GS is a nice card!... But at $600, it seems way
>>out of line to add to a P4 2.6ghz system!!! I recommended a card that
>>would work almost as well (due to the bottlenecks of the system) and
>>costs less than 1/3 the price... Certainly, a 6800 GS/GT will double
>>framerates of a 9800. If the op really has that kind of cash to spend
>>on an upgrade, I'd be recommending a new PCI-e board, processor and
>>card. There's no way I'd spend $600 on a AGP card at this point, as it
>>is already dead-end technology.
>>
>>Don't get me wrong - I'm not putting down the 7800 GS. again, it's a
>>great card and I'd love to have one! But I just can't come up with a
>>reason why anyone would pour that much $ into an AGP upgrade, when a
>>more powerful PCI-e system could be built for the same amount or less
>>$.
>>
>>-CK
>
> something like this would be better for him and its not $600 dollars
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130269

I'll probably get a Geforce 6800. Now does anyone know how wide this card
is. All the PCI slots are full and I don't want to have to remove one to
make room. Will a Geforce 6800 fit in the same space as a Radeon9800?
Thanks.

GS
July 15th 06, 09:38 AM
Most Gforce 6800GS will use a double slot..

"Pete9" > wrote in message
...
>
> "bandit" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 6 Jul 2006 08:25:34 -0700, wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Alexander Freudenberg wrote:
>>>> "Pete9" > schrieb
>>>> > I'm currently using an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and I'd like to upgrade.
>>>> > Does anyone know what the most powerful AGP graphics card on
>>>> > the market it and whether it would be cause a significant improvement
>>>> > in performance over my existing card?
>>>>
>>>> I recently upgraded from a 9800 Pro to a GeForce 7800 GS and I'm very
>>>> satisfied with my decision. Depending on the application I could double
>>>> the frame rate. (P4 3200)
>>>> Today I would probably buy a Gainward Bliss 7800 GS (it's a 7800 GT
>>>> with
>>>> 512 MB RAM for AGP)
>>>>
>>>> AF.
>>>
>>>Obviously, the GB 7800 GS is a nice card!... But at $600, it seems way
>>>out of line to add to a P4 2.6ghz system!!! I recommended a card that
>>>would work almost as well (due to the bottlenecks of the system) and
>>>costs less than 1/3 the price... Certainly, a 6800 GS/GT will double
>>>framerates of a 9800. If the op really has that kind of cash to spend
>>>on an upgrade, I'd be recommending a new PCI-e board, processor and
>>>card. There's no way I'd spend $600 on a AGP card at this point, as it
>>>is already dead-end technology.
>>>
>>>Don't get me wrong - I'm not putting down the 7800 GS. again, it's a
>>>great card and I'd love to have one! But I just can't come up with a
>>>reason why anyone would pour that much $ into an AGP upgrade, when a
>>>more powerful PCI-e system could be built for the same amount or less
>>>$.
>>>
>>>-CK
>>
>> something like this would be better for him and its not $600 dollars
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130269
>
> I'll probably get a Geforce 6800. Now does anyone know how wide this card
> is. All the PCI slots are full and I don't want to have to remove one to
> make room. Will a Geforce 6800 fit in the same space as a Radeon9800?
> Thanks.
>

Tuomas Koskinen
July 24th 06, 10:42 PM
"Pete9" > wrote in message
...

> Also the processor is a Pentium4 2.6Ghz so bare in mind this may be a
> bottleneck.

The processor speed of the processor is not that relevant at all. Itīs
frustrating to tell ANY difference in a 1,5 ghz and 4,7 ghz computer, if
both have fast enough graphic cards.

Tim
July 25th 06, 01:18 PM
"Tuomas Koskinen" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Pete9" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Also the processor is a Pentium4 2.6Ghz so bare in mind this may be a
> > bottleneck.
>
> The processor speed of the processor is not that relevant at all. Itīs
> frustrating to tell ANY difference in a 1,5 ghz and 4,7 ghz computer, if
> both have fast enough graphic cards.

That's more than a bit overstated. Whether you'll see a
substantial difference with a faster CPU depends almost
entirely on which games you play, the resolution(s) you
play them at, and how much eye candy you want while
you play them.

I see complaints all the time from people who upgraded
from 6600 and 6800 series AGP cards to 7800's, they
didn't see much (or sometimes any) improvement because
they have slower CPUs, and play games that rely heavily
on CPU speed.

Tim
July 25th 06, 02:11 PM
"Tuomas Koskinen" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Tim" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > "Tuomas Koskinen" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >
> > > "Pete9" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > Also the processor is a Pentium4 2.6Ghz so bare in mind this may be a
> > > > bottleneck.
> > >
> > > The processor speed of the processor is not that relevant at all. Itīs
> > > frustrating to tell ANY difference in a 1,5 ghz and 4,7 ghz computer, if
> > > both have fast enough graphic cards.
> >
> > That's more than a bit overstated. Whether you'll see a
> > substantial difference with a faster CPU depends almost
> > entirely on which games you play, the resolution(s) you
> > play them at,
>
> The resolution at which you play a game at has to do with how much MEMORY
> you have
> in your graphics card. If you donīt have enough memory, then games will be
> slower.
> Myself I do not under any games notice difference in 1024*768 and 800*600
> resolution,
> because I have enough memory in my graphic card. If you donīt believe me,
> read in any computer magazine, and over the years, the memory and the speed
> of the memory is the thing
> that matters when changing resolution.
>
>
> > I see complaints all the time from people who upgraded
> > from 6600 and 6800 series AGP cards to 7800's, they
> > didn't see much (or sometimes any) improvement because
> > they have slower CPUs, and play games that rely heavily
> > on CPU speed.
> >
> Well it depends on a lot of factors whether there is a difference. First of
> all, what tells you there should be much difference in those particular
> graphic cards ? Is the other one more expensive ?
> I have seen huge differences in graphic card speeds, and referring to any
> computer magazine over the years, a computers bottleneck has always been the
> graphic card.

I had a fairly lengthy email exchange with Brian Burke from
Nvidia about Gainward's 7800GS+ AGP card. NV's major
concern about officially releasing a 24-pipe AGP design is
that they believed not enough gamers with AGP systems
have fast enough CPUs to take advantage of a G71/7900
core. They didn't want to straddle their manufacturers with
a bunch of product returns from customers who complained
about inadequate (or no) performance increase over older
cards. Kudos to Gainward for doing it anyway.

Brian also said the minimum CPU needed to avoid severe
bottlenecking with the 7800GS+ is a P4 @ 3GHz or an
AMD 3000+.

I have to assume Nvidia knows what they're talking about,
and Brian's claim is verified by posts all over the internet.
People who have the referenced CPUs or better are very
happy with their upgrades, while those with slower CPUs
aren't.

Larry Roberts
July 25th 06, 02:59 PM
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:48:26 -0700, "Tuomas Koskinen"
> wrote:

>
>"Tim" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>> "Tuomas Koskinen" > wrote in message
...
>> >
>> > "Pete9" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >
>> > > Also the processor is a Pentium4 2.6Ghz so bare in mind this may be a
>> > > bottleneck.
>> >
>> > The processor speed of the processor is not that relevant at all. Itīs
>> > frustrating to tell ANY difference in a 1,5 ghz and 4,7 ghz computer, if
>> > both have fast enough graphic cards.
>>
>> That's more than a bit overstated. Whether you'll see a
>> substantial difference with a faster CPU depends almost
>> entirely on which games you play, the resolution(s) you
>> play them at,
>
>The resolution at which you play a game at has to do with how much MEMORY
>you have
>in your graphics card. If you donīt have enough memory, then games will be
>slower.
>Myself I do not under any games notice difference in 1024*768 and 800*600
>resolution,
>because I have enough memory in my graphic card. If you donīt believe me,
>read in any computer magazine, and over the years, the memory and the speed
>of the memory is the thing
>that matters when changing resolution.
>
>
>> I see complaints all the time from people who upgraded
>> from 6600 and 6800 series AGP cards to 7800's, they
>> didn't see much (or sometimes any) improvement because
>> they have slower CPUs, and play games that rely heavily
>> on CPU speed.
>>
>Well it depends on a lot of factors whether there is a difference. First of
>all, what tells you there should be much difference in those particular
>graphic cards ? Is the other one more expensive ?
>I have seen huge differences in graphic card speeds, and referring to any
>computer magazine over the years, a computers bottleneck has always been the
>graphic card.
>>
>


So your telling me that a 512MB 6200 will perform better than
my 128MB 6600GT, even if the 6200 resides in an Athlon 1.4Ghz while my
6600GT resides in an Athlon XP 3000+. Unless the games your playing
are older than the slower CPU system, then you will notice a
difference.
Don't get me wrong. You can pop a 7800GS AGP into a P4 2.0Ghz,
and see a difference from a lower powered card (like a GF4), but with
a faster CPU, new games will play alot smoother. Flight Sims are an
example of CPU intensive games. LockOn runs like dirt on my Athlon XP
3000+ with 1GB DDR333, & a 6600GT, but actually runs faster on my
Athlon64 3800+ Venice with 1GB DDR400, and a GF4 Ti4400. The Athlon64
system has a PCI-E 16x slot, and an XGP slot for use with AGP cards.
However, it runs the AGP card over the PCI bus (33Mhz), so the GF4 Ti
is cut down from it's full potential.