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April 4th 06, 03:43 PM
I have the misfortune of being stuck with an AGP motherboard. I'm
don't feel the need to ditch my Athlon 64 3000+ just yet, but at the
same time I don't feel comfortable investing money into a dead
technology like AGP.

Most of the fancy new cards are PCI-Express only, and I can't really
use 'em unless I overhaul my entire system. So at this point... is the
7800GS worth my $300? Or would I be stupid to spend any money on a
dead technology?

I'm not very picky with my PC games. I'm perfectly content with
1280x768 resolution *without* AA, as long as all the other details are
close to maximum. I don't need to be playing at 120 fps all the time
either. I can tolerate an average framerate of 45-50 fps, but not any
lower.

With that in mind... how long will the 7800GS keep me content with the
latest games until it can no longer satisfy my requirements? 9 months?
18 months?

April 4th 06, 04:13 PM
wrote:
> Most of the fancy new cards are PCI-Express only, and I can't really
> use 'em unless I overhaul my entire system. So at this point... is the
> 7800GS worth my $300? Or would I be stupid to spend any money on a
> dead technology?

Depends. What card do you have at the moment?

Going from a Radeon 9500 Pro to 7800GS trebled frame-rates in most
games and benchmarks and increased the 3DMark06 score by a factor of
ten. Older games like NOLF2, Guild Wars and HL2 run OK at 2048x1536
with 4xAA (haven't tried the HL2 Lost Coast level, though), and FEAR
runs fine with most settings maxed (no AA and 4xAF) at 1280x960: I
think the FEAR performance tester gave min and max of 25fps and 85fps.

So if you're upgrading from a older card you'll see a big boost,
particularly in more recent games. If it's a Radeon X800, Geforce 6800
or later, maybe it won't be worthwhile: though the X800 doesn't have
SM3.0 and the 7800GS does.

Mark

Michael Romes
April 4th 06, 05:51 PM
schrieb:
> I have the misfortune of being stuck with an AGP motherboard. I'm
> don't feel the need to ditch my Athlon 64 3000+ just yet, but at the
> same time I don't feel comfortable investing money into a dead
> technology like AGP.
>
> Most of the fancy new cards are PCI-Express only, and I can't really
> use 'em unless I overhaul my entire system. So at this point... is the
> 7800GS worth my $300? Or would I be stupid to spend any money on a
> dead technology?

Speaking of "dead" technology:
I have yet to run into that kind of problems - I just upgraded my
videocard from a Geforce 2 Ti to a Geforce 3 Ti 200 ;-)

Perhaps next year IŽll upgrade my AMD Duron 1600 to an Athlon :-)
bye
Michael

Thomas
April 4th 06, 06:14 PM
The bottom line is the guy wants to run modern games - presumably ones
like Oblivion, Call of Duty 2 & FEAR.

I have an Amiga 500 that will run those games about as well as your
machine, but I don't run anything past about 1993 on it so I guess I
haven't run into any problems either and it's not "dead" technology.

Jim
April 4th 06, 10:00 PM
> Most of the fancy new cards are PCI-Express only, and I can't really
> use 'em unless I overhaul my entire system. So at this point... is the
> 7800GS worth my $300? Or would I be stupid to spend any money
> on a
> dead technology?

I just upgraded from an XFX GeForce 6600GT -to- an eVGA GeForce
7800GS-OC/256MB and found a noticable improvement. I play only UT2004, and
noticed the graphics load quicker, and everything appears a wee bit more
defined.

The 6600GT goes in my kids PC, which will double their video ram. It's a
fine card in & of itself. I just decided to get the 7800GS as it's very
likely the end of our AGP road.

> With that in mind... how long will the 7800GS keep me content with
> the
> latest games until it can no longer satisfy my requirements?

Depends on which games you'll be wanting to try out. As others have
pointed out, even the latest PCi-E/SLi cards get taxed on a couple of
those games, and any AGP card will _really_ show it's limitations.
--

Jim
Using - Virtual Access(OLR), ZASS 6.1, & WinXP Pro w/SP2
http://www.virtual-access.org

Xocyll
April 4th 06, 11:29 PM
"Thomas" > looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>The bottom line is the guy wants to run modern games - presumably ones
>like Oblivion, Call of Duty 2 & FEAR.
>
>I have an Amiga 500 that will run those games about as well as your
>machine, but I don't run anything past about 1993 on it so I guess I
>haven't run into any problems either and it's not "dead" technology.

I think you'd be surprised what a GF3Ti200 can run if you aren't hung up
on huge resolutions and FSAA and AF and if it's one with a good amount
of RAM on it.

Oblivion - probably not.
GTA:SA, VTM:Bloodline, Guild Wars - no problem at all for a 128 meg
gf3ti200 @ 1280x1024 with no FSAA or AF.

A good decade less obsolete than that Amiga.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

April 5th 06, 12:31 AM
Butterfield wrote:
>
> What are you running now besides an Athlon 64 3000+?
>
> Butterfield


Athlon 64 3000+
1 GB RAM
Radeon 9800 Pro


Would the 7800GS give any significant performance increase over the
9800 Pro? Would the CPU bottleneck the video card?

Honestly, while my current PC isn't fast enough to run the latest and
greatest games, it's still good enough for everything else I do.
Surfing the web, watching movies, playing music, video editing, minor
programming, surfing the web, word processing, and so forth. Besides
gaming, I can't even imagine any activity that my PC can't handle for
the next 5 or 10 years. That's why I'm very reluctant to completely
overhaul a perfectly good PC right now just so I can play games with a
PCI Express graphics card.

Knight37
April 5th 06, 01:44 AM
once tried to test me with:

>
> Butterfield wrote:
>>
>> What are you running now besides an Athlon 64 3000+?
>>
>> Butterfield
>
>
> Athlon 64 3000+
> 1 GB RAM
> Radeon 9800 Pro
>
>
> Would the 7800GS give any significant performance increase over the
> 9800 Pro? Would the CPU bottleneck the video card?

At least double your performance. Maybe triple.

> Honestly, while my current PC isn't fast enough to run the latest and
> greatest games, it's still good enough for everything else I do.
> Surfing the web, watching movies, playing music, video editing, minor
> programming, surfing the web, word processing, and so forth. Besides
> gaming, I can't even imagine any activity that my PC can't handle for
> the next 5 or 10 years. That's why I'm very reluctant to completely
> overhaul a perfectly good PC right now just so I can play games with a
> PCI Express graphics card.

I'd go with either the 7800GS or even a 6800GS (about $200 versus $300).
The 7800 you might get another 4-6 months out of. I just replaced my 9800
pro with the 6800GS and figure I'm good for another 18 months before I'll
replace the whole system.



--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.

April 5th 06, 02:31 AM
wrote:
> Would the 7800GS give any significant performance increase over the
> 9800 Pro?

2-3x in older games, probably 5-10x in 3DMark06 and some newer games.

> Would the CPU bottleneck the video card?

Old games, yes. But they'll already run so fast that it's really
irrelevant whether they run at 200fps or 300fps at 2048x1536.

Newer games, no: they're mostly graphics-limited. FEAR certainly is
with any reasonably modern CPU.

Mark

Czar
April 5th 06, 05:21 AM
wrote:
> I have the misfortune of being stuck with an AGP motherboard. I'm
> don't feel the need to ditch my Athlon 64 3000+ just yet, but at the
> same time I don't feel comfortable investing money into a dead
> technology like AGP.
>
> Most of the fancy new cards are PCI-Express only, and I can't really
> use 'em unless I overhaul my entire system. So at this point... is the
> 7800GS worth my $300? Or would I be stupid to spend any money on a
> dead technology?
>
> I'm not very picky with my PC games. I'm perfectly content with
> 1280x768 resolution *without* AA, as long as all the other details are
> close to maximum. I don't need to be playing at 120 fps all the time
> either. I can tolerate an average framerate of 45-50 fps, but not any
> lower.
>
> With that in mind... how long will the 7800GS keep me content with the
> latest games until it can no longer satisfy my requirements? 9 months?
> 18 months?
>
I went from an ATI 9700 Pro to a 7800GS - I am using a P4 3.06Ghz - 1GB RAM

After the upgrade Oblivion was a new game - well worth my money. It
looks great.

R

April 5th 06, 05:35 AM
1 GB PC3200 DDR RAM
Athlon 64 3000+
AGP 3.0
200 Front Side BUS on my mobo

I wonder if my CPU will bottleneck the 7800GS?

I've seen a benchmark that basically says F.E.A.R. is so-so playable at
1280X768 at max details on that video card. Completely unplayable at
higher resolutions.

Ouch. That's not what I want to hear before plunking down $300 on yet
another video card. Sometimes I think I'm better off keeping the same
PC for 10 years, and spending $600 on an XBox360 or PS3. Consoles tend
to have a shelf life of 6 or 7 years, and you never worry about
compatibility and performance issues with every single game that comes
out. That's a heckuva lot cheaper than plunking down $300 every 18
months or so.

Thomas
April 5th 06, 01:28 PM
>
> I've seen a benchmark that basically says F.E.A.R. is so-so playable at
> 1280X768 at max details on that video card. Completely unplayable at
> higher resolutions.
>

Perhaps FEAR is so-so with FULL AA & AF on, but I'd think it would run
smooth as butter without those settings and it's perhaps the most
graphically demanding game out there.

Also remember there are different 7800 GS cards out there also, BFG &
evga make overclocked ones and I think leadtek makes one with an actual
7800 GT chip in it.

Tom's Hardware has a review - under the graphics section entitled
"7800 GS becomes a better buy" - I'd recommend reading it if you
haven't already.

RaceFace
April 5th 06, 02:17 PM
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>1 GB PC3200 DDR RAM
> Athlon 64 3000+
> AGP 3.0
> 200 Front Side BUS on my mobo
>
> I wonder if my CPU will bottleneck the 7800GS?
>
> I've seen a benchmark that basically says F.E.A.R. is so-so playable at
> 1280X768 at max details on that video card. Completely unplayable at
> higher resolutions.
>
> Ouch. That's not what I want to hear before plunking down $300 on yet
> another video card. Sometimes I think I'm better off keeping the same
> PC for 10 years, and spending $600 on an XBox360 or PS3. Consoles tend
> to have a shelf life of 6 or 7 years, and you never worry about
> compatibility and performance issues with every single game that comes
> out. That's a heckuva lot cheaper than plunking down $300 every 18
> months or so.

So-so playable? I have a 6800GT and a P4 3.06.. and FEAR was entirely
playable on my machine at 1280x1024 with settings on high or max. The
7800GS should rock with your CPU.

RF.

Thomas
April 6th 06, 03:46 AM
> I think you'll have to spend more than that to get a card which can
> play FEAR with all settings maxed out, including 4xAA and 16xAF, above
> 1280x960 and stay above 30fps.
>
> Mark

I have an 7800 GT that I spent 300 cdn on - and for interest sake I
set everything to the max just then ran the test settings. Minimum was
23 and only 1% percent of the time it was below 25 fps - average was
45. I have decent other specs and the card is overclocked, but maxing
FEAR isn't out of the question for 300 dollars.

That's of course assuming the test is indicitive of real gameplay but
I don't have time to go back and actually play as I'm involved in
oblivion right now. Rest assured I don't have oblivion maxed out,
though.

Travis King
April 6th 06, 04:23 AM
"Michael Romes" > wrote in message
...
> schrieb:
>> I have the misfortune of being stuck with an AGP motherboard. I'm
>> don't feel the need to ditch my Athlon 64 3000+ just yet, but at the
>> same time I don't feel comfortable investing money into a dead
>> technology like AGP.
>>
>> Most of the fancy new cards are PCI-Express only, and I can't really
>> use 'em unless I overhaul my entire system. So at this point... is the
>> 7800GS worth my $300? Or would I be stupid to spend any money on a
>> dead technology?
>
> Speaking of "dead" technology:
> I have yet to run into that kind of problems - I just upgraded my
> videocard from a Geforce 2 Ti to a Geforce 3 Ti 200 ;-)
>
> Perhaps next year IŽll upgrade my AMD Duron 1600 to an Athlon :-)
> bye
> Michael
In its day, the Geforce3 Ti200 was a pretty good card in my opinion. In
fact, my computer used to have one until I just recently got an FX5600
because I'll be trying out Vista soon, which requires a DX9 video card that
supports pixel shader 2.0 for Aero Glass. If it weren't for that, I'd still
be using my Geforce3 Ti200 right now. It still is a pretty hefty card in
some games.

HockeyTownUSA
April 6th 06, 01:00 PM
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Butterfield wrote:
>>
>> What are you running now besides an Athlon 64 3000+?
>>
>> Butterfield
>
>
> Athlon 64 3000+
> 1 GB RAM
> Radeon 9800 Pro
>
>
> Would the 7800GS give any significant performance increase over the
> 9800 Pro? Would the CPU bottleneck the video card?
>
> Honestly, while my current PC isn't fast enough to run the latest and
> greatest games, it's still good enough for everything else I do.
> Surfing the web, watching movies, playing music, video editing, minor
> programming, surfing the web, word processing, and so forth. Besides
> gaming, I can't even imagine any activity that my PC can't handle for
> the next 5 or 10 years. That's why I'm very reluctant to completely
> overhaul a perfectly good PC right now just so I can play games with a
> PCI Express graphics card.
>

A couple things to consider.

The 78900GS is a significant improvement over the 9800 Pro. The 9800 Pro is
a great card too, just getting dated. I would say it is a wise investment.

Secondly, assuming your motherboard will accept the latest Athlon64 chips,
you can always add an Athlon64 dual core or even a 3800+ single core down
the road. While the 7800GS is not "top of the line" it should be able to
handle the latest released games for the next couple years.

And lastly, of course memory. You can always add another GB down the road as
well.

I have an AGP sytem with an Opteron 175, 2GB RAM, WD Raptor hard drive, and
an X800 XT PE AGP. I am reluctant as well to upgrade because it runs great,
but would like to go for the newer cards, forcing me to replace my PC, but I
can carryover everything else, except the mobo. Just keep that in mind. A
new decent PCI-e mobo will run you about $100US, but gives you future
expansion, and most likely will have no problems with the latest Athlon64
CPU's should you decide to update that down the road.

Blig Merk
April 7th 06, 03:08 AM
I had a 6800GT and got a 7800GS a few weeks ago on a 3.4GHz P4 AGP
mobo. The 6800GT got me through good gameplay with Doom 3, Call of Duty
2, Fable, Quake 4 and F.E.A.R. as well as continuing with Battlefield
2. But all of them after Doom 3 were a little choppy and some features
couldn't be set to the highest settings without some performance hit.

The 7800GS isn't a huge leap in performance compared to the 6800GT,
less than twice as much for just raw speed increase. But it runs a lot
smoother and the auto-detects now set everything to High with 2XAA or I
can set all settings High with no problem. I think more SM3.0 features
are turned on also, as the image and lighting quality seems to be
improved quite a bit. It made Quake 4, F.E.A.R. and Call of Duty 2
buttery-smooth, although I had finished those and just checked them
out. It really smoothed out Fable and makes Battlefield 2 a real joy to
play now. I upgraded mainly for Oblivion PC and the auto-detect there
set everything to High with HDR. Oblivion is smooth as silk now and the
only slight burps are due to the hard drive loading scene areas. I am
not sure about GRAW but it looks like it might be worth getting, so it
will be interesting to see how that performs.

I am building a Conroe machine later this year (nobody is mentioning
the early Conroe benchmarks totally kicking AMD butt over on
Anandtech?). That will be in about 6 months and that is all I expect
the 7800GS to last. I usually have some other use to move older
computers to, with the lowest end going to charity and I take a hefty
deduction, so it is worth it for me.

Nonymous
April 7th 06, 03:31 AM
"HockeyTownUSA" <magma at comcast dot net> wrote in
:

> A new decent PCI-e mobo will
> run you about $100US, but gives you future expansion, and most likely
> will have no problems with the latest CPU's should you decide
> to update that down the road.

Not too far down the road (more like the end of the driveway), the "lastest
Athlon64 CPU's will be M2 socket.

Ed Forsythe
April 7th 06, 01:31 PM
I just swapped my 9800Pro for an eVGA 7800GS N507 OC. I don't see any noticeable increase in speed doing the daily mundane tasks but I'm pleased with the marked increase in speed and graphics quality when running my RC flight simulators. I paid $284 at NewEgg and I'll receive a $15 mail in rebate bringing the price down to $284. Here are my 3DMark benchmarks before and after (Notice the huge increase in 3DMark03 scores);
9800Pro (My Card) 6800GS 7800GS
3DMark 03 5783 10,000 11,400
3DMark 05 2695 4321 5393
3DMark 06 680 1910 2717

7800GS (My Card) 6800GS 7800GS
3DMark 03 12721 10,000 11,400
3DMark 05 5218 4321 5393
3DMark 06 DNF 1910 2717


The 6800 & 7800GS marks are from Guru of 3D and they are about the same as
other sites I've checked. BTW, My 9800 PRO/128 memory speed is 338MHz.




> wrote in message ps.com...
>I have the misfortune of being stuck with an AGP motherboard. I'm
> don't feel the need to ditch my Athlon 64 3000+ just yet, but at the
> same time I don't feel comfortable investing money into a dead
> technology like AGP.
>
> Most of the fancy new cards are PCI-Express only, and I can't really
> use 'em unless I overhaul my entire system. So at this point... is the
> 7800GS worth my $300? Or would I be stupid to spend any money on a
> dead technology?
>
> I'm not very picky with my PC games. I'm perfectly content with
> 1280x768 resolution *without* AA, as long as all the other details are
> close to maximum. I don't need to be playing at 120 fps all the time
> either. I can tolerate an average framerate of 45-50 fps, but not any
> lower.
>
> With that in mind... how long will the 7800GS keep me content with the
> latest games until it can no longer satisfy my requirements? 9 months?
> 18 months?
>

Thomas
April 7th 06, 01:32 PM
> I am building a Conroe machine later this year (nobody is mentioning
> the early Conroe benchmarks totally kicking AMD butt over on
> Anandtech?). That will be in about 6 months and that is all I expect
> the 7800GS to last. I usually have some other use to move older
> computers to, with the lowest end going to charity and I take a hefty
> deduction, so it is worth it for me.

I'm just waiting to see the final prices. It looks impressive but I'm
quite certain that if there is a way to screw this up, intel will do it.

Michael Romes
April 13th 06, 06:34 PM
Arcana Dragon schrieb:
> Michael Romes > wrote in -
> online.com:
>
>> I have yet to run into that kind of problems - I just upgraded my
>> videocard from a Geforce 2 Ti to a Geforce 3 Ti 200 ;-)
>
> I just upgraded my GeForce 3Ti200/128 (from 2001'ish) to a GeForce
> 6600GT256, which, I observe, is already extinct... :-(
>
> Wherever did you find that card?

Used on Ebay.
bye
Michael

HockeyTownUSA
April 13th 06, 11:52 PM
"Nonymous" > wrote in message
...
> "HockeyTownUSA" <magma at comcast dot net> wrote in
> :
>
>> A new decent PCI-e mobo will
>> run you about $100US, but gives you future expansion, and most likely
>> will have no problems with the latest CPU's should you decide
>> to update that down the road.
>
> Not too far down the road (more like the end of the driveway), the
> "lastest
> Athlon64 CPU's will be M2 socket.

Yes, but if you go with a 3800+ now, you can always go with a 4800+ or
higher (I think they have a 5000 or 5000+ coming out) down the road. The
only thing that the AM2 gives you is DDR2 support, which is a big deal, but
you can get more bang for the buck going with a 939-Pin Athlon now with
upgrade opportunity down the road.

DRS
April 14th 06, 06:14 AM
"HockeyTownUSA" <magma at comcast dot net> wrote in message

> "Nonymous" > wrote in message
> ...

[...]

>> Not too far down the road (more like the end of the driveway), the
>> "lastest
>> Athlon64 CPU's will be M2 socket.
>
> Yes, but if you go with a 3800+ now, you can always go with a 4800+ or
> higher (I think they have a 5000 or 5000+ coming out)

The FX-60 is the last of the 939s. There is slated to be an AM2 X2 5000+
tho. And an FX-62 (2.8Ghz) AM2.

> down the road.
> The only thing that the AM2 gives you is DDR2 support, which is a big
> deal, but you can get more bang for the buck going with a 939-Pin
> Athlon now with upgrade opportunity down the road.

The current rev AM2 CPUs are showing 1%-2% performance boost over their 939
equivalents, which is more than can be said for Intel when they went to
DDR2, and there's a lot of potential left. I expect they'll be more
expensive than their 939 equivalents too, but that's just par for the course
for any first generation gear.

Expect to see AMD respond to Conroe with CPU improvements sitting on top of
their new DDR2 memory controller next year. Anandtech's recent tests show
the Athlon 64 simply isn't starved for memory enough for the increased
bandwidth to have much of an impact. But if they improve the CPU then
they'll achieve performance levels that 939/DDR couldn't match because
they'll have the extra bandwidth.

If AMD can do with DDR2 what they did with DDR then Intel had better watch
out.

Arcana Dragon
April 16th 06, 04:54 PM
Michael Romes > wrote in
:

>>> I have yet to run into that kind of problems - I just upgraded my
>>> videocard from a Geforce 2 Ti to a Geforce 3 Ti 200 ;-)
>> I just upgraded my GeForce 3Ti200/128 (from 2001'ish) to a GeForce
>> 6600GT256, which, I observe, is already extinct... :-(
>> Wherever did you find that card?
> Used on Ebay.

<axel foley> Nooo! ****? You're actually serious? </axel foley> :-)

Well, it's a damn fine card. Tell me if you get Oblivion running on it?

--
Arcana Dragon -==(UDIC)==-
d++e++N++T+++Om-KAWML!34567'!S'!8!9!u+uC+uF+++uG-u
LBź----uAnC+nH++nP+nI----nPT-nS+++nT----o---oE---xz
http://www.phyton.dk/games.htm

Sepalus
June 29th 06, 01:34 AM
> Ed Forsythewrote:
I just swapped my 9800Pro for an eVGA 7800GS N507 OC. I don't see any
noticeable increase in speed doing the daily mundane tasks but I'm
pleased with the marked increase in speed and graphics quality when
running my RC flight simulators. I paid $284 at NewEgg and I'll
receive a $15 mail in rebate bringing the price down to $284. Here
are my 3DMark benchmarks before and after (Notice the huge increase
in 3DMark03 scores);
> 9800Pro (My Card) 6800GS 7800GS
> 3DMark 03 5783 10,000
11,400
> 3DMark 05 2695 4321
5393
> 3DMark 06 680 1910
2717
>
> 7800GS (My Card) 6800GS 7800GS
> 3DMark 03 12721 10,000
11,400
> 3DMark 05 5218 4321
5393
> 3DMark 06 DNF 1910
2717
>
>
> The 6800 & 7800GS marks are from Guru of 3D and they are about
the same as
> other sites I've checked. BTW, My 9800 PRO/128 memory speed is
338MHz.
>
>

Pretty interesting results...here is mine...

CPU in these tests were AMD ath. 64bit 3000+, not overclocked at all.

ATI Sapphire 9800Pro AIW
3DMark05 Score: 2696
CPU Score : 3798

ATI Sapphire X800VE AIW
3DMark05 Score:3855
CPU Score :4086

NVIDIA Leadtek 6800LE
3DMark05 Score:4489
CPU Score :4158

NVIDIA PNY 7800GS
3DMark05 Score:6946
CPU Score :4158

NVIDIA Gainward 7800GS 512+
3DMark05 Score:8260
CPU Score :4091