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Olaf
August 12th 05, 06:40 AM
Are there any?

I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I already had an
X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express at the time (and they
were brand new) and having to get a new GFX card.

Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only? Why is that?
Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP version? The
R520 or whatever it is?

TIA
olaf

Dragoncarer
August 12th 05, 10:50 AM
"Olaf" > wrote in message
.. .
> Are there any?
>
> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I already had
> an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express at the time (and
> they were brand new) and having to get a new GFX card.
>
> Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only? Why is
> that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP version?
> The R520 or whatever it is?
>
> TIA
> olaf
>

At this stage, only the PCI-E (PCI-X refers to an outdated technology, while
most people don't care - I don't - watch out for technodweebs who'll crack
it, just a friendly warning) versions of the 7800 line are available.
I haven't heard anything about nVidia releasing AGP versions.

But perhaps with enough customer demand, they may produce some. Start
whingeing to nVidia now!!!

As for ATI, I have no idea. They may manufacture some AGP, it might help to
give them a little bit of a better footing against nVidia.

jammie
August 12th 05, 03:35 PM
"" wrote:
> Are there any?
>
> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I
> already had an
> X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express at the
> time (and they
> were brand new) and having to get a new GFX card.
>
> Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only?
> Why is that?
> Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP
> version? The
> R520 or whatever it is?
>
> TIA
> olaf

I may b wrong here but I think you might b on about the nvidia 7800
not ati as im not sure if they do one. If it is the nvidia card then
they usualy do bring out an agp version of there cards a little later
than the PCI-Express

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Benjamin Gawert
August 12th 05, 03:45 PM
Olaf wrote:

> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I already
> had an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express at the
> time (and they were brand new) and having to get a new GFX card.
>
> Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only?

There are no PCI-X Geforce cards. You probably mean PCI Express which
is appreviated "PCIe". PCI-X is something different (enhancement of the
old PCI bus, usually used in servers and workstations for NICS,
FC-Controller and SCSI/SATA HBAs)...

Benjamin

BigJim
August 12th 05, 04:58 PM
the word on the street is no more agp cards from nvidia.

"Olaf" > wrote in message
.. .
> Are there any?
>
> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I already had
> an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express at the time (and
> they were brand new) and having to get a new GFX card.
>
> Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only? Why is
> that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP version?
> The R520 or whatever it is?
>
> TIA
> olaf
>

J. Clarke
August 12th 05, 07:00 PM
Dragoncarer wrote:

>
> "Olaf" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Are there any?
>>
>> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I already had
>> an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express at the time (and
>> they were brand new) and having to get a new GFX card.
>>
>> Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only? Why is
>> that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP version?
>> The R520 or whatever it is?
>>
>> TIA
>> olaf
>>
>
> At this stage, only the PCI-E (PCI-X refers to an outdated technology,

Tell Intel that it's "outdated". All of their server boards have it.
You're confusing "high end" with "outdated".

> while most people don't care - I don't - watch out for technodweebs who'll
> crack it, just a friendly warning

You should care, otherwise one of these days you're going to order a PCI-X
something or other and wonder why you can't put it in your PCI Express
slot.

> ) versions of the 7800 line are
> available. I haven't heard anything about nVidia releasing AGP versions.
>
> But perhaps with enough customer demand, they may produce some. Start
> whingeing to nVidia now!!!
>
> As for ATI, I have no idea. They may manufacture some AGP, it might help
> to give them a little bit of a better footing against nVidia.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

/\\/\\UF/-\\S/-\\
August 12th 05, 11:34 PM
ROTFLMAO!!!!

/\/\UF/-\S/-\
"J. Clarke" > wrote in message
...
> Dragoncarer wrote:
>
>>
>> "Olaf" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> Are there any?
>>>
>>> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I already
>>> had
>>> an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express at the time
>>> (and
>>> they were brand new) and having to get a new GFX card.
>>>
>>> Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only? Why is
>>> that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP
>>> version?
>>> The R520 or whatever it is?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>> olaf
>>>
>>
>> At this stage, only the PCI-E (PCI-X refers to an outdated technology,
>
> Tell Intel that it's "outdated". All of their server boards have it.
> You're confusing "high end" with "outdated".
>
>> while most people don't care - I don't - watch out for technodweebs
>> who'll
>> crack it, just a friendly warning
>
> You should care, otherwise one of these days you're going to order a PCI-X
> something or other and wonder why you can't put it in your PCI Express
> slot.
>
>> ) versions of the 7800 line are
>> available. I haven't heard anything about nVidia releasing AGP versions.
>>
>> But perhaps with enough customer demand, they may produce some. Start
>> whingeing to nVidia now!!!
>>
>> As for ATI, I have no idea. They may manufacture some AGP, it might help
>> to give them a little bit of a better footing against nVidia.
>
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Larry Roberts
August 13th 05, 12:28 AM
>
>You should care, otherwise one of these days you're going to order a PCI-X
>something or other and wonder why you can't put it in your PCI Express
>slot.
>

Is PCI-X in production? I did a search for PCI-X, and only
find references to PCI-E. I don't think there are any videocards that
are PCI-X, or any other device for that matter.

DaveW
August 13th 05, 12:39 AM
No. The video processing power of the latest cards from Nvidia and ATI
require the much faster speed of the PCI-Express bus. You chose unwisely,
I'm afraid.

--
DaveW



"Olaf" > wrote in message
.. .
> Are there any?
>
> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I already had
> an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express at the time (and
> they were brand new) and having to get a new GFX card.
>
> Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only? Why is
> that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP version?
> The R520 or whatever it is?
>
> TIA
> olaf
>

Phil Weldon
August 13th 05, 01:12 AM
'Larry Roberts' wrote:
| Is PCI-X in production? I did a search for PCI-X, and only
| find references to PCI-E. I don't think there are any videocards that
| are PCI-X, or any other device for that matter.
_____

Gee, google gives ~691,000 hits for 'PCI-X'. You might find the PCI SIG
organization helpful, as it maintains PCI bus standards (
http://www.pcisig.com/home ) .

Phil Weldon

"Larry Roberts" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
>>You should care, otherwise one of these days you're going to order a PCI-X
>>something or other and wonder why you can't put it in your PCI Express
>>slot.
>>
>
> Is PCI-X in production? I did a search for PCI-X, and only
> find references to PCI-E. I don't think there are any videocards that
> are PCI-X, or any other device for that matter.

Dragoncarer
August 13th 05, 02:06 AM
"J. Clarke" > wrote in message
...
> Dragoncarer wrote:
>
>>
>> "Olaf" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> Are there any?
>>>
>>> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I already
>>> had
>>> an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express at the time
>>> (and
>>> they were brand new) and having to get a new GFX card.
>>>
>>> Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only? Why is
>>> that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP
>>> version?
>>> The R520 or whatever it is?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>> olaf
>>>
>>
>> At this stage, only the PCI-E (PCI-X refers to an outdated technology,
>
> Tell Intel that it's "outdated". All of their server boards have it.
> You're confusing "high end" with "outdated".
>

Well I was told it was outdated. I was told wrong, evidently.

>> while most people don't care - I don't - watch out for technodweebs
>> who'll
>> crack it, just a friendly warning
>
> You should care, otherwise one of these days you're going to order a PCI-X
> something or other and wonder why you can't put it in your PCI Express
> slot.
>

No, I'm not.

>> ) versions of the 7800 line are
>> available. I haven't heard anything about nVidia releasing AGP versions.
>>
>> But perhaps with enough customer demand, they may produce some. Start
>> whingeing to nVidia now!!!
>>
>> As for ATI, I have no idea. They may manufacture some AGP, it might help
>> to give them a little bit of a better footing against nVidia.
>
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke
August 13th 05, 05:20 AM
Larry Roberts wrote:

>
>>
>>You should care, otherwise one of these days you're going to order a PCI-X
>>something or other and wonder why you can't put it in your PCI Express
>>slot.
>>
>
> Is PCI-X in production? I did a search for PCI-X, and only
> find references to PCI-E. I don't think there are any videocards that
> are PCI-X, or any other device for that matter.

Look at server boards, high end SCSI RAID controllers, multiport Ethernet
boards and the like.

It's not a technology that has been used much for video, but it is quite
common in servers.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Robert Hancock
August 13th 05, 06:13 PM
Dragoncarer wrote:
>>Tell Intel that it's "outdated". All of their server boards have it.
>>You're confusing "high end" with "outdated".
>>
>
>
> Well I was told it was outdated. I was told wrong, evidently.

Well, it is somewhat outdated in the fact that it will most likely be
superseded by PCI Express in servers. This has already started
happening. However, PCI-X is far from gone.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/

First of One
August 13th 05, 06:21 PM
Indeed, much like how the latest hard drives require the much faster 300
MB/s of the SATA-II interface. This has as much truth as Aryan propaganda.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"DaveW" > wrote in message
...
> No. The video processing power of the latest cards from Nvidia and ATI
> require the much faster speed of the PCI-Express bus. You chose unwisely,
> I'm afraid.
>
> --
> DaveW

McGrandpa
August 14th 05, 04:11 AM
"DaveW" > wrote in message

> No. The video processing power of the latest cards from Nvidia and
> ATI require the much faster speed of the PCI-Express bus. You chose
> unwisely, I'm afraid.
>
>
> "Olaf" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Are there any?
>>
>> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I
>> already had an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express
>> at the time (and they were brand new) and having to get a new GFX
>> card. Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only?
>> Why
>> is that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP
>> version? The R520 or whatever it is?
>>
>> TIA
>> olaf

DaveW, show me some numbers that say PCI Express is more than marginally
faster than AGP 8X (3.0) with any of the current crop of video cards.
You do that, and show me a big enough difference, and I might opt for
PCI Express and nForce4 Ultra over AGP and nForce 3 Ultra for a X2 4800+
McG.

Olaf
August 14th 05, 06:53 AM
"McGrandpa" > wrote in message
. ..
> "DaveW" > wrote in message
>
>> No. The video processing power of the latest cards from Nvidia and
>> ATI require the much faster speed of the PCI-Express bus. You chose
>> unwisely, I'm afraid.
>>
>>
>> "Olaf" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> Are there any?
>>>
>>> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I
>>> already had an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express
>>> at the time (and they were brand new) and having to get a new GFX
>>> card. Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only? Why
>>> is that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP
>>> version? The R520 or whatever it is?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>> olaf
>
> DaveW, show me some numbers that say PCI Express is more than marginally
> faster than AGP 8X (3.0) with any of the current crop of video cards. You
> do that, and show me a big enough difference, and I might opt for PCI
> Express and nForce4 Ultra over AGP and nForce 3 Ultra for a X2 4800+
> McG.

Those were about my thoughts. So I dont understand why nvidia just ditched
AGP. That has to be a large part of the installed market.

olaf

McGrandpa
August 14th 05, 01:24 PM
"Olaf" > wrote in message

> "McGrandpa" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "DaveW" > wrote in message
>>
>>> No. The video processing power of the latest cards from Nvidia and
>>> ATI require the much faster speed of the PCI-Express bus. You chose
>>> unwisely, I'm afraid.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Olaf" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>> Are there any?
>>>>
>>>> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I
>>>> already had an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI
>>>> Express at the time (and they were brand new) and having to get a
>>>> new GFX
>>>> card. Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X
>>>> only? Why is that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will
>>>> have an AGP version? The R520 or whatever it is?
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>> olaf
>>
>> DaveW, show me some numbers that say PCI Express is more than
>> marginally faster than AGP 8X (3.0) with any of the current crop of
>> video cards. You do that, and show me a big enough difference, and I
>> might opt for PCI Express and nForce4 Ultra over AGP and nForce 3
>> Ultra for a X2 4800+ McG.
>
> Those were about my thoughts. So I dont understand why nvidia just
> ditched AGP. That has to be a large part of the installed market.
>
> olaf

There is some sort of inherent latency involved with PCI-Express,
there'd have to be, or it WOULD yeild the screaming bandwidth it was
touted to deliver. It simply doesn't at this time. Maybe we simply
don't have things to put IN the slots to use that bandwidth?
McG.

J. Clarke
August 14th 05, 02:52 PM
McGrandpa wrote:

> "Olaf" > wrote in message
>
>> "McGrandpa" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "DaveW" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> No. The video processing power of the latest cards from Nvidia and
>>>> ATI require the much faster speed of the PCI-Express bus. You chose
>>>> unwisely, I'm afraid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Olaf" > wrote in message
>>>> .. .
>>>>> Are there any?
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I
>>>>> already had an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI
>>>>> Express at the time (and they were brand new) and having to get a
>>>>> new GFX
>>>>> card. Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X
>>>>> only? Why is that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will
>>>>> have an AGP version? The R520 or whatever it is?
>>>>>
>>>>> TIA
>>>>> olaf
>>>
>>> DaveW, show me some numbers that say PCI Express is more than
>>> marginally faster than AGP 8X (3.0) with any of the current crop of
>>> video cards. You do that, and show me a big enough difference, and I
>>> might opt for PCI Express and nForce4 Ultra over AGP and nForce 3
>>> Ultra for a X2 4800+ McG.
>>
>> Those were about my thoughts. So I dont understand why nvidia just
>> ditched AGP. That has to be a large part of the installed market.
>>
>> olaf
>
> There is some sort of inherent latency involved with PCI-Express,
> there'd have to be, or it WOULD yeild the screaming bandwidth it was
> touted to deliver. It simply doesn't at this time. Maybe we simply
> don't have things to put IN the slots to use that bandwidth?

It does deliver the "screaming bandwidth". The thing is, so far nobody has
been able to demonstrate more than a percent or two difference between AGP
4x and AGP 8x, let alone PCI Express, because nothing exists that can even
fill an AGP 4x pipe more than momentarily. It's kind of like SATAII--it
delivers its 300 MB/sec of bandwidth but there is no drive on the market
that can move bits off of the platter at even 133 so that bandwidth is not
very useful.

Nvidia has ditched AGP because they accept that Intel has won that battle.

> McG.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

First of One
August 14th 05, 02:59 PM
ATi once mentioned that 90% of its high-end cards go to system builders like
Alienware and Dell, all of which ship PCIe systems. The same is probably
true of nVidia.

It comes down to demand and supply. If nVidia's card-makers are selling
every PCIe-based 7800 card they can produce, there is no incentive to make a
more expensive AGP version just for upgraders. The retail market is subject
to large fluctuations (it's what killed 3dfx), so it represents extra risk.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"Olaf" > wrote in message
.. .
> Those were about my thoughts. So I dont understand why nvidia just
> ditched AGP. That has to be a large part of the installed market.
>
> olaf

Doug
August 15th 05, 09:15 PM
Only for SLI putz. AGP 8X has more bandwidth than ANY current GPU can use
up. Fool.

--
there is no .sig
"DaveW" > wrote in message
...
> No. The video processing power of the latest cards from Nvidia and ATI
> require the much faster speed of the PCI-Express bus. You chose unwisely,
> I'm afraid.
>
> --
> DaveW
>
>
>
> "Olaf" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Are there any?
>>
>> I bought a new mobo late last year to go with an AMD 4000. I already had
>> an X800 Pro, AGP, so I didnt feel like going PCI Express at the time (and
>> they were brand new) and having to get a new GFX card.
>>
>> Well, now I want a 7800 but it seems like they are PCI-X only? Why is
>> that? Does anyone know if the next gen ATI part will have an AGP version?
>> The R520 or whatever it is?
>>
>> TIA
>> olaf
>>
>
>
>

Doug
August 15th 05, 09:17 PM
And by your reasoning if one card maker were to make a card (even a small
run) based on the 7800 GTX they would own ALL of that market.

--
there is no .sig
"First of One" > wrote in message
...
> ATi once mentioned that 90% of its high-end cards go to system builders
> like Alienware and Dell, all of which ship PCIe systems. The same is
> probably true of nVidia.
>
> It comes down to demand and supply. If nVidia's card-makers are selling
> every PCIe-based 7800 card they can produce, there is no incentive to make
> a more expensive AGP version just for upgraders. The retail market is
> subject to large fluctuations (it's what killed 3dfx), so it represents
> extra risk.
>
> --
> "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
> It can therefore be said that politics is war without
> bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
>
>
> "Olaf" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Those were about my thoughts. So I dont understand why nvidia just
>> ditched AGP. That has to be a large part of the installed market.
>>
>> olaf
>
>

First of One
August 15th 05, 11:50 PM
Yep, though it's a very unstable market, made more risky because the cards
cannot be sold to OEMs. If a company is selling every PCIe 7800GTX it could
churn out, only very high margins will persuade it to make an AGP version,
to justify the risk (and the bridge chip).

Remember all the people here swearing they'd never buy an AGP card that
costs more than its PCIe version, because they perform the same?

Do you see any companies making a left-handed gaming mouse? 20-32 million
Americans are left-handed.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

"Doug" > wrote in message
...
> And by your reasoning if one card maker were to make a card (even a small
> run) based on the 7800 GTX they would own ALL of that market.

First of One
August 16th 05, 01:10 AM
Actually, if you get yourself a card with Turbocache or Hypermemory, the
PCIe x16 bus will be used to its fullest potential. Trouble is, "fullest
potential" is still nothing compared to local memory bandwidth.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"McGrandpa" > wrote in message
.. .
> There is some sort of inherent latency involved with PCI-Express, there'd
> have to be, or it WOULD yeild the screaming bandwidth it was touted to
> deliver. It simply doesn't at this time.